GodIsTheStrengthOfMyHeart
Established
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- Jun 12, 2017
- Messages
- 139
Most of us have had experiences with God so its not as simple as picking up a book and deciding its true.It's literally all based on the stories of the same tribe.
Most of us have had experiences with God so its not as simple as picking up a book and deciding its true.It's literally all based on the stories of the same tribe.
That's awesome, and I wouldn't discount your experiences whatsoever. I just find it highly dubious that this god (or gods plural perhaps, it's kinda ambiguous if you ask me) of the ancient hebrew tribe claims to be the creator of the entire universe. I'm sure that the stories reflect some true events that are a part of our human history and anthropology, but this god or gods could possibly be a any number or variety of entities attempting to control early humans, and maybe isn't something to actually be worshiping. Just my two cents. I think I will butt out of this topic now, have fun though. (obviously I'm not an atheist or hard skeptic, by the way)Most of us have had experiences with God so its not as simple as picking up a book and deciding its true.
References of falsephet regarding sucking penises...What part of Islam doesn't make sense to you? sucking of penises.
No, I don't think you caught what I was trying to illustrate. In either case I described a situation where the person repented genuinely. The first example I gave was where the person repented for acting in such a way because they thought they could just ask for forgiveness afterward.The difference is that your intention after you sin has to be genuine. You can't really just sin and think ok I'm going to repent extra hard tonight and then do it all again. God wants us to believe in ourselves as much as he believes in us so the Islamic belief is to achieve a state where you abstain from sin as much as you can. The higher your faith in God the more you abstain from serious sins. Of course we're prone to general sins hence why we are always asked to repent and ponder on our actions, in order to learn and become better people.
Deeds are weighed on scales on judgement day. A scale for the good deeds and a scale for the bad. Islam is about achieving that balance and making sure you have some enough good to outweigh the bad. We are also encouraged to repent often because God may just have mercy on us even if we were bad people.
Is it now?References of falsephet regarding sucking penises...
Related by Al-Tabarani and it’s authentication is fully validated by Islamic scholars.
I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't command someone to murder their own child. Just a hunch.@Faker He-Man - Do you think that if God existed, and if the people he created had been separated from him by sin, he would wait till our culture was really advanced before bothering to reveal himself?
Islam isn't. It speaks about all sorts of people and different tribes. Now what about Islam and its tenets do you find doesn't make sense?It's literally all based on the stories of the same tribe.
Where exactly are you pulling this information from? I ask because its wholly incorrect, Purgatory has been a thought in forms of Christianity longggggg before the 12th Century....Regarding:
(The)" notion of "purgatory" -- another worldly place between heaven and hell which appeared in Western Christian literature around the middle of the 12th century CE. [See on this "The Birth of Purgatory" (La Naissance du Purgatoire) by the eminent French medievalist Jacques Le Goff whose classes I was honored to attend while at the Ecole Normale Superieure in Paris.]
" As a means of recording the passage of time, the 12th century is the period from 1101 to 1200 in accordance with the Julian calendar in the Common Era."
Please note Waraqa lived before that time....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatorythe Roman Catholic tradition of Purgatory as a transitional condition has a history that dates back, even before Jesus Christ, to the worldwide practice of caring for the dead and praying for them, and to the belief, found also in Judaism,[10] which is considered the precursor of Christianity, that prayer for the deadcontributed to their afterlife purification. The same practice appears in other traditions, such as the medieval Chinese Buddhist practice of making offerings on behalf of the dead, who are said to suffer numerous trials.[6] Roman Catholic belief in after-life purification is based on the practice of praying for the dead, which is mentioned in what the Roman Catholic Church has declared to be part of Sacred Scripture,[11][12] and which was adopted by Christians from the beginning,[13] a practice that presupposes that the dead are thereby assisted between death and their entry into their final abode.[6]
Belief in after-life "temporary punishments agreeable to every one's behaviour and manners" was expressed in the early Christian work in Greek known as Josephus's Discourse to the Greeks concerning Hades, which was once attributed to Josephus (37 – c. 100) but is now believed to be by Hippolytus of Rome (170–235).
I think it might have an echo in a key event later in the story... Amazing how Moses knew that might tie in some time ;-)I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't command someone to murder their own child. Just a hunch.
What are you talking about? You literally just said that:Listen, there is no place that people wait. You either go hell or heaven. Stop trying to redefine things you have no knowledge of.
That is the exact concept of Purgatory, you go somewhere to burn off your Sins, it doesnt matter the name or the place you "burn your sins off" or "punished for what you didnt repent for" its the exact same idea, but if you dont want to acknowledge the fact that what you are expressing is identical to the ideology of Purgatory so be, I am sure others who hear that Islam has a place you to go in which you burn off your sins, or are punished for unrepentant sins and then eventually are let into Heaven will see the parallels to that and Purgatory...Hell is not eternal for someone who believed in one God, his last messenger and his final book. You are punished for what you didn't repent for, then eventually will be granted entry into a level of paradise
Look I am not trying to belittle you and I apologize if it comes across that way, I was being serious as to why I thought English was not your first language which is because many times when people tell you things you seemingly are not able to understand what they are saying. I personally dont understand why it would be such a difficult thing for you to grasp the concepts others are trying their hardest and restating many times to get across to you, just as in the post I quoted to DesertRose where you could not understand what I and like 4 other people were trying to express to you, as tho it was almost purposefully that you refused to acknowledge what was being said. I see the same thing in this thread, where someone gives you an answer and you completely misunderstand what is being said and restate it back in a completely and totally different way than was expressed and hold firm to this misunderstanding no matter how many ways and how many people restate the original idea to get you to comprehend the meaning behind it.@Daciple
I'm so sick of you belittling me every time I contribute to a religious thread. English is my first language, there's no need to constantly talk down to me. I'm tired of your rude and confrontational approach to discussions and quite frankly I'm tired of reading your endless waffle
You'll be put on ignore and I'll be engaging in no further discussion with your venomous mouth
Pathetic excuse for a Christian
Floss answers you:So how are you guys held accountable for sins you do after accepting Jesus?
Floss restates his answer in the Thread again for even more clarification:You gonna get a good ass whooping, possibly death. Like parent spanking their kids.
Hebrews 12
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
You dont seem to understand what Floss says misunderstanding him, then stating his response incorrectly and asking the same question again:Really, do you have a source for this, from the bible?
- Once you've become the children of God by accepting Jesus's blood atonement, death, burial, resurrection (The Gospel) and you continue to sins, there will be consequences in your life because Father God will spank you.
Hebrews 12
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Which again this was addressed in my first post but you ask it another time:Jesus died for your sins, so as other Christians on here stated, if you sin post accepting Jesus you will still be burned in the fire.
So what's the point of Jesus dying for your sins, if you were going to sin anyway (inevitable that man will sin), since you're going to tried for your sins anyway
So I give you a more definitive answer:But you guys believe Jesus died for your sins yet you're still punished for the sins that you do
And try and explain it for you yet another time in that same post:No we will not be burned in the fire, I dont think whomever said that understands the verse in which would have been used to even begin that ideology. This I would assume is what they are referencing:
1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The Christian will not ever experience Fire in the afterlife Himself, however our works will be tested by fire, all the works we have that have been built on the foundation of Christ will remain and turned into reward, all the works built upon anything other than Christ will be burnt up and we shall suffer loss, however we will be saved.
I apologize that my frustration was showing but this isnt the first time that I have witnessed you have 5-8 different people explain the exact same ideology to you and you still act as tho it is impossible for you to comprehend. Hence the questioning of English being your first language because THAT would make total sense, if you dont natively speak English then I could see why it may a bit difficult for someone to understand what is being said and need to have the identical question and answers restated numerous times. However if English IS your first language which apparently it is, then I personally dont grasp how you have such difficulty understanding what it is that is being said to you. The only thing I can ascertain from watching and participating in conversations with you is that this is a purposefully done action. You purposefully act as tho what is being stated is so impossible to comprehend, because see I actually do not believe you are ignorant or incompetent, I believe you must be an intelligent person so I am at a loss as to why on Earth you are not able to understand the ideologies expressed to you, very clearly, over and over again...So let me ask, are you capable of understanding the difference between punishment in this life aka consequences for sin as opposed to punishment or consequences in the afterlife for sin aka going to Hell?
If one sins, lets say one steals from a store, this is a sin right? This Sin is going to have a fleshly earthly consequence correct? However one can repent of this Sin and be forgiven in the afterlife correct?
Let me ask you in your Religion would Allah punish you in this lifetime via physical consequences for your Sins but then if you repent and ask forgiveness, offer you forgiveness in the afterlife? I mean we know you cant really know if you will be forgiven, but isnt it a possibility?
God has children?I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't command someone to murder their own child. Just a hunch.
I don't think a lot of people will watch these videos but thanks for posting them I enjoyed themThis concept predates Christianity, it is actually a very ancient concept and we believe that Islam came with Prophet Adam peace be upon him. This concept may have come with every renewal of Islam and every Prophet who corrected the worship of others or even the worship of ideas among other things.
"Therefore Allah has sent 124.000 prophets and finally the last prophet, Master of the believers, Sayyidunâ Muhammad(may Allah bless him and grant him peace) and with him the Holy Quran, as a reminder of the eternal message, a confirmation of (the messages) which came before it, a salvation for mankind and a healing and mercy for the believers."
"While use of the word "Purgatory" (in Latin purgatorium) as a noun appeared perhaps only between 1160 and 1180, giving rise to the idea of purgatory as a place[7] (what Jacques Le Goff called the "birth" of purgatory),"the Roman Catholic tradition of Purgatory as a transitional condition has a history that dates back, even before Jesus Christ, to the worldwide practice of caring for the dead and praying for them, and to the belief, found also in Judaism,[9] which is considered the precursor of Christianity, that prayer for the dead contributed to their afterlife purification.
The same practice appears in other traditions, such as the medieval Chinese Buddhist practice of making offerings on behalf of the dead, who are said to suffer numerous trials.[5] Roman Catholic belief in after-life purification is based on the practice of praying for the dead, which is mentioned in what the Roman Catholic Church has declared to be part of Sacred Scripture,[10][11] and which was adopted by Christians from the beginning,[12] a practice that presupposes that the dead are thereby assisted between death and their entry into their final abode.[5]
Belief in after-life "temporary punishments agreeable to every one's behaviour and manners" was expressed in the early Christian work in Greek known as Josephus's Discourse to the Greeks concerning Hades, which was once attributed to Josephus (37 - c. 100) but is now believed to be by Hippolytus of Rome (170-235).[13]
https://quizlet.com/168435856/purgatory-flash-cards/
From Wikipedia:
Islam
Main article: Barzakh
Islam has a concept similar to that of purgatory in Christianity. Barzakh is thought to be a realm between paradise (Jannah) and hell (Jahannam) and according to Ghazali the place of those who go neither to hell or to heaven.[117] But because it does not purify the souls it resembles more the Christian limbo than the purgatory.
In some cases, the Islamic concept of hell may resemble the concept of Catholic doctrine of Purgatory, for Jahannam just punishes people according to their deeds, and releases them after their habits are purified. A limited duration in Jahannam is not universally accepted in Islam."
Anyway this discussion was about Salvation. (Hope you watched my video on the People of Paradise and Hell and I re-posted again because of the excellent points made).
{ And give glad tidings to those who believe and do good works, that for them are gardens beneath which flow streams. }
Quran, 2:25
Once again this is an excellent video explaining our stance:
I like finding out what other people think too...I don't think a lot of people will watch these videos but thanks for posting them I enjoyed them
So essentially I was correct, Islam has a state that resembles Purgatory, yet the both of you rejected me making this comparison. This personally is the first time I was made aware that an ideology that resembles Purgatory is in Islam. I guess the reason why this is the first time in a decade of speaking to Muslims I have heard about this is because as you quoted limited duration in Jahannam is not universally accepted in Islam. I was always under the impression that if one rejected Islam, Muhammad, the Pillars, have more Bad Works than Good then they go to Hell and stay there forever. I have never been under the impression that one can escape Hell in Islam.This concept predates Christianity, it is actually a very ancient concept and we believe that Islam came with Prophet Adam peace be upon him. This concept may have come with every renewal of Islam and every Prophet who corrected the worship of others or even the worship of ideas among other things.
"Therefore Allah has sent 124.000 prophets and finally the last prophet, Master of the believers, Sayyidunâ Muhammad(may Allah bless him and grant him peace) and with him the Holy Quran, as a reminder of the eternal message, a confirmation of (the messages) which came before it, a salvation for mankind and a healing and mercy for the believers."
"While use of the word "Purgatory" (in Latin purgatorium) as a noun appeared perhaps only between 1160 and 1180, giving rise to the idea of purgatory as a place[7] (what Jacques Le Goff called the "birth" of purgatory),"the Roman Catholic tradition of Purgatory as a transitional condition has a history that dates back, even before Jesus Christ, to the worldwide practice of caring for the dead and praying for them, and to the belief, found also in Judaism,[9] which is considered the precursor of Christianity, that prayer for the dead contributed to their afterlife purification.
The same practice appears in other traditions, such as the medieval Chinese Buddhist practice of making offerings on behalf of the dead, who are said to suffer numerous trials.[5] Roman Catholic belief in after-life purification is based on the practice of praying for the dead, which is mentioned in what the Roman Catholic Church has declared to be part of Sacred Scripture,[10][11] and which was adopted by Christians from the beginning,[12] a practice that presupposes that the dead are thereby assisted between death and their entry into their final abode.[5]
Belief in after-life "temporary punishments agreeable to every one's behaviour and manners" was expressed in the early Christian work in Greek known as Josephus's Discourse to the Greeks concerning Hades, which was once attributed to Josephus (37 - c. 100) but is now believed to be by Hippolytus of Rome (170-235).[13]
https://quizlet.com/168435856/purgatory-flash-cards/
From Wikipedia:
Islam
Main article: Barzakh
Islam has a concept similar to that of purgatory in Christianity. Barzakh is thought to be a realm between paradise (Jannah) and hell (Jahannam) and according to Ghazali the place of those who go neither to hell or to heaven.[117] But because it does not purify the souls it resembles more the Christian limbo than the purgatory.
In some cases, the Islamic concept of hell may resemble the concept of Catholic doctrine of Purgatory, for Jahannam just punishes people according to their deeds, and releases them after their habits are purified. A limited duration in Jahannam is not universally accepted in Islam."
Anyway this discussion was about Salvation. (Hope you watched my video on the People of Paradise and Hell and I re-posted again because of the excellent points made).
{ And give glad tidings to those who believe and do good works, that for them are gardens beneath which flow streams. }
Quran, 2:25
Once again this is an excellent video explaining our stance: