Did Jesus die ONLY for the Israelites?

Paranoia Daily

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I find all this completely laughable...Let's acknowledge a few things..(1)..Jesus by all intents and purposes was a Jew...(2)..If and when he ever reappears which I doubt he's coming back for who? The Jews...(3)...No man Jew, Gentile or Muslim can die for the sins of others it makes no sense.(4)...Jesus never even heard the word Christian it was invented 40 years after they strung him up on that stick by Paul....So if he ever decides to come back Christians will not be high on his flight manifest for the return trip to heaven. Why? Because he's never heard of you!
 

phipps

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I find all this completely laughable...Let's acknowledge a few things..(1)..Jesus by all intents and purposes was a Jew...(2)..If and when he ever reappears which I doubt he's coming back for who? The Jews...(3)...No man Jew, Gentile or Muslim can die for the sins of others it makes no sense.(4)...Jesus never even heard the word Christian it was invented 40 years after they strung him up on that stick by Paul....So if he ever decides to come back Christians will not be high on his flight manifest for the return trip to heaven. Why? Because he's never heard of you!
Not according to the Bible.
 

phipps

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That response don't tell me much...Not according to the Bible what?
Jesus is coming for all the saved no matter what race they are. Not once does the Bible even hint that Jesus is coming for only the Jews. Jesus came as Jew for a reason not because He identifies only as a Jew. Remember He is God of everyone and He created all of us and wants all of us, Jew or Gentile to be saved. To say otherwise is to contradict Him.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53,We shall all be changed … and the dead will be raised incorruptible. For … this mortal must put on immortality.”

Revelation 22:12, “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.”

None of these verses suggest that Jesus is coming only for the Jews. He is coming for all the righteous.

Jesus has made it clear all who come to Him will be saved.

John 1:12,
“As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God.”

John 6:37, “The one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.”

And the Bible is clear there is no distinction between Jews and Gentiles.

Galatians 3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

There is plenty more scripture of course to show that all true Christians will be saved whatever race they are. That was always His intention.

And the word "Christian" is biblical and the Bible is God's Word, inspired by Him (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Jesus knows everything including everything written in His Word. The Word might very well come from Him or is inspired by Him.
 
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Paranoia Daily

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You don't know that...And Bible verses don't prove it sadly...Consider when that was written..What 2500 years ago? And I did not say the word Christian is not biblical...The Book of Acts was written what 60AD? Jesus was strung up on that stick in 1AD or about's so as a I said before he never even heard the word.
 

phipps

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You don't know that...And Bible verses don't prove it sadly...Consider when that was written..What 2500 years ago? And I did not say the word Christian is not biblical...The Book of Acts was written what 60AD? Jesus was strung up on that stick in 1AD or about's so as a I said before he never even heard the word.
What do you mean I don't know? I've just shown you that I know because the Bible, God's Word is very plain actually on this subject unless one chooses to reject it. If the Bible verses don't prove it what else proves it? Where are you getting your information from because its not from the Bible that's for sure. Then can that be of God?

Jesus who is God knows everything. He knows the beginning from the end. He created this world and is the reason why we have the Bible which tells us who He is, why we are here and how He wants all of us to be saved and how we can be.

Can Jesus know everything as God and not know the Word "Christian"? You have got to do better than this. Jesus was preached by the apostles to the Gentiles who became Christians along with some Jews. It is the Christians who will be saved when Jesus returns the second time. It won't be about race. This is biblical as I've proved with scripture above.

As longs as its written in God's Word, its still inspired by God and needed for our salvation no matter how long ago it was written.
 

A Freeman

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Matthew 10:5-7
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go NOT into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye NOT:
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel".
10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the "lost sheep" of the "House of Israel" (the Ten "Lost" Tribes of Israel).

Revelation 7:4-9
7:4 And I HEARD the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
7:5 Of the tribe of Judah [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:6 Of the tribe of Asher [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:8 Of the tribe of Zebulun [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph/Ephraim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could count (which is why he was told in verse 4), of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 14:1-4
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a LAMB stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many "waters", and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.
14:4 These are they which were not corrupted by women; for they are pure. These are they which follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb (obeying God NOT women).
 

LittleLady

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I find all this completely laughable...Let's acknowledge a few things..(1)..Jesus by all intents and purposes was a Jew...(2)..If and when he ever reappears which I doubt he's coming back for who? The Jews...(3)...No man Jew, Gentile or Muslim can die for the sins of others it makes no sense.(4)...Jesus never even heard the word Christian it was invented 40 years after they strung him up on that stick by Paul....So if he ever decides to come back Christians will not be high on his flight manifest for the return trip to heaven. Why? Because he's never heard of you!
Like I said with Kung, you might as well leave if you disagree that badly. All you're doing is mocking God and Christians on this thread. I would've loved to talk to you about God if you would just listen instead of mocking everything that everyone has said thus far in this thread, but you're not. All you're doing is laughing just as you mentioned in the beginning of your comment, and apparently it's so funny to you that you can't resist the urge to comment mockery and foolishness. If this is all you're here for, please take it elsewhere. If you actually want to know about God (Which, judging by what you've said so far, that's not the case) then stay, but if you don't, then take your leave. You're lowkey wasting your time being rude.
 
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I think a lot,of people miss that there are a series of covenants in the bible. There is first a covenant with Adam, then with Noah, then with Abraham. then with David, and finally Jesus Christ brings the new covenant. It is a story of the covenant extending from one man, Adam, to a family, Noah, to a nation, Abraham, to the promise of the messiah to David, and finally Jesus Christ extends the covenant of the one God to all of humanity
 

Paranoia Daily

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Like I said with Kung, you might as well leave if you disagree that badly. All you're doing is mocking God and Christians on this thread. I would've loved to talk to you about God if you would just listen instead of mocking everything that everyone has said thus far in this thread, but you're not. All you're doing is laughing just as you mentioned in the beginning of your comment, and apparently it's so funny to you that you can't resist the urge to comment mockery and foolishness. If this is all you're here for, please take it elsewhere. If you actually want to know about God (Which, judging by what you've said so far, that's not the case) then stay, but if you don't, then take your leave. You're lowkey wasting your time being rude.
Where have I been rude? Please point it out...Contrary to what you want to believe christianity is not the only religion in the world and not everybody agrees with it so that what makes you mad....Don't want your beliefs questioned then do not post on a public internet forum, especially a conspiracy forum...Plenty of Fundie forums out there.
 

LittleLady

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Where have I been rude? Please point it out...Contrary to what you want to believe christianity is not the only religion in the world and not everybody agrees with it so that what makes you mad....Don't want your beliefs questioned then do not post on a public internet forum, especially a conspiracy forum...Plenty of Fundie forums out there.
You've been blaspheming the entire time you got here. I'm not mad because of the fact not everyone believes in it, actually I accept that fact because it's inevitable. I got a little irritated because that's all you've been doing here. You can come here and question things, but you shouldn't insult everything in every comment you make, alright? If you want a mature respectful conversation, you can stay here but if you're just going to continue leaning on your own understanding and insulting Christianity, you can leave and take Kung with you too.
 
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When you talk about Jews, you seem to forget, the Jews have been very much punished for there rejection of God's Messiah. And for going after there own God. So when you say hes coming back for the Jews, while that is partly true, and not many it would seem 144,000. They arent exactly favoured in the way you think, they have rejected Gods new covenenant and instead embrace the old one in a sense idolatry, and putting themselves on a pedestal as special, not dissimilar to carrying on the Pharisee's tradition.
 

Tidal

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..christianity is not the only religion in the world and not everybody agrees with it..
Yeah but only Christianity is fronted by the Son of God giving us the words of God himself, wow!
Jesus said - "For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak" (John 12:49)

All the founders of other "religions" are just corpses in graves somewhere but Jesus is not, spot the difference?..:p

 

Tidal

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..the Jews have been very much punished for there rejection of God's Messiah..

And there's more hurt to come for the jews and all other Jesus-rejecters-

"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb 10:29-31)

 

shankara

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if you're just going to continue leaning on your own understanding
@Paranoia Daily , I think what she's saying is that you're not drinking the Kool-Aid and are maybe even a "suppressive person" so go away before your discourse starts influencing the lost sheep who need Jesus in order to be saved. Don't you know that God says we shouldn't use our own reason but should rather accept things on faith even when they are completely illogical?

Evangelical Christianity... the world's most popular cult.
 

Tidal

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Don't you know that God says we shouldn't use our own reason but should rather accept things on faith even when they are completely illogical?.

1- Scientists estimate there are literally thousands of alien civilisations in the universe.
2- Jesus said "I'm not of this world".
3- So it's illogical not to listen to him.. :p
Hey Spock will you listen?

"Affirmative, it would be illogical not to listen to an alien visitor, I'm all ears"
 

shankara

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1- Scientists estimate there are literally thousands of alien civilisations in the universe.
2- Jesus said "I'm not of this world".
3- So it's illogical not to listen to an alien visitor.. :p
Hey Spock will you listen?

"Affirmative, I'm all ears"
I think that it is quite possible to follow the teachings of Christ whilst retaining our own logic and freedom of thought. What is not possible is to accept the teachings of these so-called "Christians" who think that all they have to do is "believe" in order to be saved.

When Christ says "love the Lord thy God above all things and thy neighbour as thyself", this is what we have to strive towards. The spiritual life requires efforts, self-overcoming, not just professing that one believes in something.
 

Paranoia Daily

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1- Scientists estimate there are literally thousands of alien civilisations in the universe.
2- Jesus said "I'm not of this world".
3- So it's illogical not to listen to him.. :p
Hey Spock will you listen?

"Affirmative, it would be illogical not to listen to an alien visitor, I'm all ears"
(1)..Estimate..What proof do they have? Sure they are other planets out there but what evidence do they have aliens are on them?
(2). No he did not..The writers of the Bible said he said that. Jesus never wrote a damn thing.
(3). It's illogical to think that some sight unseen Sky Daddy is kicked back in some heaven no one has seen drinking a Coors and deciding who lives or dies...Hell this God has killed millions so how does that relate to him being caring? Who forgives him for all the killing?

Anyway I've had enough this arguing with a wall your not going to convince brain washed fundies of anything...Have a nice day.
 

phipps

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When you talk about Jews, you seem to forget, the Jews have been very much punished for there rejection of God's Messiah. And for going after there own God. So when you say hes coming back for the Jews, while that is partly true, and not many it would seem 144,000. They arent exactly favoured in the way you think, they have rejected Gods new covenenant and instead embrace the old one in a sense idolatry, and putting themselves on a pedestal as special, not dissimilar to carrying on the Pharisee's tradition.
The 144,00 are not genetic Israelites. Here is why:

1. There are no genetic Jews from all the tribes of Israel in the world today. There hasn't been for more than 2500 years. 10 tribes were completely destroyed hundreds of years before Jesus even came to earth. They were carried away by the Assyrians, "In the ninth year of Hoshea, the king of Assyria took Samaria and carried Israel away to Assyria, and placed them in Halah and by the Habor, the River of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes" (2 Kings 17:6). You would be hard pressed to find even one pure descendant from the tribe of Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, or Simeon-much less 12,000 of them! They became extinct. They are not going to miraculously exist again.

2. Even from the two tribes that remained (Judah, Benjamin, Levi never counted because they never inherited land as priests) which made up Judah, after they were taken captive by Babylon, not all of them returned home, just some of them. That further decreased their number.

3. When Jerusalem was attacked by Rome, about 40 years after Jesus' ascension (this is when the temple was destroyed for the last time), many Jews scattered around the world and intermarried too. That is why its well known the Jews in the nation of Israel today are mainly Ashkenazi Jews who are mainly of European decent. Most of them have no Middle eastern DNA in them at all.

4. Another strong clue that Revelation is not speaking of the literal Israelite tribes is that in the Old Testament, the 12 tribes were very unequal in population numbers. Judah was very large, while Benjamin was very small. God divided the promised land in proportion to each tribe's needs. But the 144,000 is composed of 12,000 per tribe, right across the board.

5. The Bible is clear especially in the New Testament that all who accept Christ as their personal Saviour, obey and follow His precepts, they are Abraham's seed. So who makes up the 144,000? The answer lies in God's promises that were once for literal Israel but now apply to spiritual Israel, the church, the righteous, the saints etc. The prophecies in the New Testament focus on the children of faith whether they are Jews or Gentiles. Jews are not separated from Gentiles anywhere in the New Testament. The people who will be separated from each other at the end are the righteous from the unrighteous, the just from the unjust.

Romans 2:28- 29, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit."

Galatians 3:29, "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

The 144,000 are a special group of people called at the end of time that God will use to spread the Word to every part of the globe. They are faithful and keep the commandments of God and do not compresses their beliefs even through the great tribulation, even when they are persecuted. They will live through the great tribulation and will be alive when Jesus comes back, therefore they will never taste death (Revelation 7:1-4, 14:1-5). They are not a special group because they are genetic Israelites.
 
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Tidal

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Sure they are other planets out there but what evidence do they have aliens are on them?....
Jesus never wrote a damn thing.....
Hell this God has killed millions so how does that relate to him being caring?...
Anyway I've had enough this arguing with a wall..

I never argue mate, I simply state facts.. :p

1- As you rightly say, there are other planets out there, they might have intelligent life on them or they might not, so let's keep an open mind, okay?
2- Mohammed, Buddha and Elvis never wrote a damn thing either but so what? Their words were put on paper by the people who knew them.
3- God had to kick heathen ass to make the world a safer place, you got a beef with that?
God's message to them was-

 
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