Did Jesus die ONLY for the Israelites?

Paranoia Daily

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Lol. You kill me. You know I could be an Israelite. So tell me how would Jesus save me?
He can't...The key phrase here is "turn or burn" thats the message they put out.....They use the threat of eternal damnation as a weapon against those who do not believe as they do.....Only problem is there is absolutely no proof of a hell or that people who don't succumb to their rhetoric end up there.....And the Jews never believed jesus was the Messiah.
 
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When we read the story of Matthew 15:21-28, its not an easy story to read, because we don't have the benefit of voice tone and facial expressions to know what's what. A woman comes to Jesus asking Him to heal her demon possessed daughter. At first Jesus seems to ignore the woman and He doesn't answer her. Then His disciples say to Him, “Send her away, for she cries out after us” (verse 23). Then Jesus turned to the woman and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (verse 24). Was Jesus only sent to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel? No. So why did He say that? But the woman does not give up and instead, "she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” (verse 25). Jesus response is, "It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs" (verse 26). This seems very harsh and out of character with Jesus. Is Jesus implying that He doesn't want to give her anything that doesn't belong to her because she is not a Jew? This doesn’t sound like the same Jesus we read about everywhere else. Why did he say that? Anyway the woman still doesn’t give up and she says, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table” (verse 27). At that point, Jesus says to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour" (verse 28). Jesus was testing the faith of the woman. She could have become angry and walked off but she didn't. She had faith that Jesus could heal her child and she was not going to give up no matter what He said to put her off.
struggle with this but I do know God the father tests us at times, so I could understand Jesus would.
 
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He can't...The key phrase here is "turn or burn" thats the message they put out.....They use the threat of eternal damnation as a weapon against those who do not believe as they do.....Only problem is there is absolutely no proof of a hell or that people who don't succumb to their rhetoric end up there.....And the Jews never believed jesus was the Messiah.
These are all misconceptions, Hell is seperation from God.

God isnt going to force you to be in his presence. If you reject God, you have chose hades yourself. All we have for proof of anything is testimony, and faith of testimony. If your wife tells you she never cheated and you dont believe her or have FAITH in what she is telling you even though she has tried to convince you, in many ways, barring going back in time and you being there when you think it happened.

Faith is such an important thing, in all aspects of our life, God is a reflection of that.
 

Paranoia Daily

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These are all misconceptions, Hell is seperation from God.

God isnt going to force you to be in his presence. If you reject God, you have chose hades yourself. All we have for proof of anything is testimony, and faith of testimony. If your wife tells you she never cheated and you dont believe her or have FAITH in what she is telling you even though she has tried to convince you, in many ways, barring going back in time and you being there when you think it happened.

Faith is such an important thing, in all aspects of our life, God is a reflection of that.
And excuses do not make it true do they? Faith is one of the most dangerous words in any language....And if Hell is a separation from god then why mention it? Why threaten people with eternal damnation with it if it is separate from a god? If things go right it's god if things go wrong its the devil....What you are purporting is an argument from ignorance...Oh I saw jesus you gotta believe me! Do I?

 
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And excuses do not make it true do they? Faith is one of the most dangerous words in any language....And if Hell is a separation from god then why mention it? Why threaten people with eternal damnation with it if it is separate from a god? If things go right it's god if things go wrong its the devil....What you are purporting is an argument from ignorance...Oh I saw jesus you gotta believe me! Do I?

what do you think eternal seperation from all things good looks like ?
 

Kung Fu

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struggle with this but I do know God the father tests us at times, so I could understand Jesus would.
You struggle with it because you know what it's really saying. Any person with a working brain can see what's going on here.

Jesus ignores her thinking she'll go away but she doesn't. The disciples even tell him to get rid of her and he does. However, not before making it clear to her who he was sent here for and who her kind is and where she stands in terms of hierarchy. The way Jesus speaks here sounds like something right of the Talmud.

Testing someone by being a racist and supremacist sounds absolutely ridiculous. This fiction of a story, I don't believe even for a second Jesus said this, is equivalent to a black man coming to a white man and asking for some change for food only for the white man to respond with "it's not fitting for a white man to throw, what belongs to the white people, to the niggers. But the black man is hungry he responds with "even slaves need food to eat and who better than our master's to feed us". The white seeing that the black man knows his place gives him the change and then tells him to go away and that he's a smart black man for knowing where he belongs.
 
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You struggle with it because you know what it's really saying. Any person with a working brain can see what's going on here.

Jesus ignores her thinking she'll go away but she doesn't. The disciples even tell him to get rid of her and he does. However, not before making it clear to her who he was sent here for and who her kind is and where she stands in terms of hierarchy. The way Jesus speaks here sounds like something right of the Talmud.

Testing someone by being a racist and supremacist sounds absolutely ridiculous. This fiction of a story, I don't believe even for a second Jesus said this, is equivalent to a black man coming to a white man and asking for some change for food only for the white man to respond with "it's not fitting for a white man to throw, what belongs to the white people, to the niggers. But the black man is hungry he responds with "even slaves need food to eat and who better than our master's to feed us". The white seeing that the black man knows his place gives him the change and then tells him to go away and that he's a smart black man for knowing where he belongs.

Jesus asks questions and plays out conversations he already knows where they are leading to throughout the NT. Example the woman at the well, he tells her to go and get her husband, and then tells her she has had 5. Clearly he was making a point perhaps about, the order of things but that also, faith overrules at the end of the day regardless of the covenant. Shouldnt a people that have been faithful to God, or ancestors have at least be somewhat rewarded.
 

Kung Fu

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Jesus asks questions and plays out conversations he already knows where they are leading to throughout the NT. Example the woman at the well, he tells her to go and get her husband, and then tells her she has had 5. Clearly he was making a point perhaps about, the order of things but that also, faith overrules at the end of the day regardless of the covenant. Shouldnt a people that have been faithful to God, or ancestors have at least be somewhat rewarded.
Right, by calling her kind a dog and a slave. What kind of person needs to make a point by calling someone a racial slur.

This verse was probably an interpolation by Jewish converts to the faith who still felt a strong connection to being Jewish and thus superior to others.
 
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Right, by calling her kind a dog and a slave. What kind of person needs to make a point by calling someone a racial slur.

This verse was probably an interpolation by Jewish converts to the faith who still felt a strong connection to being Jewish and thus superior to others.
I think its a bit of a stretch that the context of little dog is used as an insult. Its a metaphor that, u wouldnt give a meal a man has earned to his dogs, before him, which u wouldnt. Just as Israel by rights and its covenant had earned, Gods grace first, as there ancestors faithfulness was rewarded.

The actions of generations impact on the current one.
 

Kung Fu

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I think its a bit of a stretch that the context of little dog is used as an insult. Its a metaphor that, u wouldnt give a meal a man has earned to his dogs, before him, which u wouldnt. Just as Israel by rights and its covenant had earned, Gods grace first, as there ancestors faithfulness was rewarded.

The actions of generations impact on the current one.
Lol. Are you serious? Calling someone a dog and slave is not an insult now? In what world would that be okay.

If a white business owner tells a homeless black man that "his money and resources shouldn't be thrown to the niggers and slaves but should be kept for himself and his white community" is he not insulting the black guy?
 
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Lol. Are you serious? Calling someone a dog and slave is not an insult now? In what world would that be okay.

If a white business owner tells a homeless black man that "his money and resources shouldn't be thrown to the niggers and slaves but should be kept for himself and his white community" is he not insulting the black guy?
Come on I think we both know u are really twisting the metaphor there, u can look at it that way, doesnt mean its not a distortion.
 

Kung Fu

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Come on I think we both know u are really twisting the metaphor there, u can look at it that way, doesnt mean its not a distortion.
Honest to God I'm not. You and I know that's exactly what the scripture says. But the difference between you and I is that I don't believe Jesus actually said that. I'm confident that that new Jewish converts to the faith, who were still Talmudic at heart, had that put in there.
 

Kung Fu

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21 Leaving that place, Jeff withdrew to the region of Atlanta.22 A African American woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, son of Cletus,have mercy on me! My daughter is starving and suffering terribly.”

23 Jeff did not answer a word. So his servants came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the white men of America.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the white man's bread and toss it to the niggers.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the slave niggers eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

28 Then Jeff said to her, “Woman, you know your place in this world! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was fed some food at that moment.
 
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21 Leaving that place, Jeff withdrew to the region of Atlanta.22 A African American woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, son of Cletus,have mercy on me! My daughter is starving and suffering terribly.”

23 Jeff did not answer a word. So his servants came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the white men of America.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the white man's bread and toss it to the niggers.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the slave niggers eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

28 Then Jeff said to her, “Woman, you know your place in this world! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was fed some food at that moment.
Thats ridiculous, its not about race its about faithfulness, and a generational blessing.

Just find it strange that u believe ishmael is blessed but Jews dont have this blessing through that line?
 

Kung Fu

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Thats ridiculous, its not about race its about faithfulness, and a generational blessing.

Just find it strange that u believe ishmael is blessed but Jews dont have this blessing through that line?
The truth hurts. I was trying to illustrate a point and put it in contemporary terms for you to understand.

Being "blessed" doesn't give you the right to be a racist. I don't care who you are as a human. The God I worship isn't a racist. And the prophets God has sent are not racists. Not one verse in the Quran could you even suggest Muhammad was being a racist or God commanding him to be a racist. And I know full well that Jesus would never call anyone a dog or slave. He would help them because the Father gave him the abilities to do so and because he was a kind man.
 
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I have a friend who believes Jesus came back NOT to die for the world, but to die for his people, the Israelites. Basically, she believes he only died for his people so they can have a chance at redeeming themselves, he did not die for the whole world. Here is a verse that actually makes sense with her claim.

Matthew 15:24 "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
HI LL, Christ came to the Jew first to set up the kingdom of heaven in which as the son of David was the promise to Israel. They rejected Him, Christ then began to call out the Church...His body that included the Gentile and made His body as one new man of both Jew and Gentile.(Eph. 2:11-22) This is different than Israel the nation. The Church are Sons of God and will be The administration of the kingdom of Israel. (Romans Chapter 8) God is not saving the world at this time, He is calling out His Church (body). It will be after His body is completed, then during the tribulation that many from all nations will be saved. (Revelation chapter 7)
 

LittleLady

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Right, by calling her kind a dog and a slave. What kind of person needs to make a point by calling someone a racial slur.

This verse was probably an interpolation by Jewish converts to the faith who still felt a strong connection to being Jewish and thus superior to others.
I'm pretty sure you've had thousands of conversations like this, and you just can't be convinced. Since you can't be convinced, can you leave this thread? I really can't stand seeing your posts just speak such blasphemy. And to other Christians of the thread, you already know God says don't cast your pearls to the swine, so don't bother trying to give this guy the truth if he doesn't want to take it. You tried, that's good, now move on.

If you feel tempted to reply to this guy, please pm him instead because he's just going to start derailing this thread about how he doesn't agree with ANYTHING on here, and possibly other Christian threads as well. You can clearly see he won't agree with any Christian here, and he's just gonna continue speaking blasphemy about God and throwing this thread off topic with his insults towards God. Don't bother.
 

Tidal

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..I have a friend who believes Jesus came back NOT to die for the world, but to die for his people, the Israelites. Basically, she believes he only died for his people so they can have a chance at redeeming themselves, he did not die for the whole world. Here is a verse that actually makes sense with her claim.
Matthew 15:24 "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."..

Jesus said that to a Canaanite woman who wanted him to cure her daughter; the Canaanite's were a rough thickheaded bunch so he didn't want to waste his time on her, but when he saw she was basically alright and believed in him, he changed his mind and cured her daughter.
Later he made it quite clear that he was sent to save the whole world-
"I did not come to judge the world, but to save it" (John 12:47)
 

phipps

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The truth hurts. I was trying to illustrate a point and put it in contemporary terms for you to understand.

Being "blessed" doesn't give you the right to be a racist. I don't care who you are as a human. The God I worship isn't a racist. And the prophets God has sent are not racists. Not one verse in the Quran could you even suggest Muhammad was being a racist or God commanding him to be a racist. And I know full well that Jesus would never call anyone a dog or slave. He would help them because the Father gave him the abilities to do so and because he was a kind man.
God made it so people have to study the Bible, so they want to understand and have to ask Him for understanding. This is why you don't get it. You don't study the Bible, don't believe in Jesus as Messiah and God and are focussing on one verse without knowing if the Bible uses that terminology and if it does, what it means. That is not how Chrisitans study the Bible on any subject.

When Jesus said, "It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs", that was terminology the people then all understood. He said, Matthew 7:6, “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.” He was talking about wasting your time on people who are determined to be unclean.

Psalm 22:16 says, "For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet;" this is a messianic prophecy talking about Jesus' crucifixion. Philippians 3:2, Paul said, “Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation!” Revelation 22:15, “But outside are dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”

So when Jesus says that about little dogs, it was talking about the Gentiles who did not know God. God would make sure that the gospel got preached to the Gentiles as we see clearly in the New Testament. He was always for Gentiles as well as Jews and in fact the Jews had a problem with that.

In that story Jesus was not only testing the woman, He was testing the disciples too. Instead of disciples saying, “Lord, why don’t you help her?”, they said "send her away." This had happened before. When the multitude was hungry, the disciples said "send them away" (Matthew 14:13-21), when the mothers came with their children, the disciples said "send them away" (Mark 10:13-16, Luke 8:15-17). And always Jesus said, “Don’t send them away. You feed them. Let me bless the children.” The disciples hadn't learnt their lesson though. Instead of interceding on the woman's behalf the disciples dismissed her. Jesus' answer was what the religious leaders of his day would have said to her because they thought of Gentiles as dogs and not worthy of their time. The woman's faith just kept getting stronger with every barrier that Jesus put up and of course He healed her daughter.

Jesus healed and answered Gentiles' prayers as well as Jews too. He did not only do it for that woman. One other example is in Matthew 8:5-13, Jesus heals a centurion's servant who was a Gentile. Jesus said of the centurion, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!" He added, " And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven." In other words, a time will come when these dogs, these unclean Gentiles will be in the kingdom. He continued, "But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” This is about the Jews. They are the sons of the Kingdom who took for granted that they would always be blessed no matter what.

I trust Jesus completely even though sometimes I may not understand why He did and said certain things. By dialoguing with this woman, Jesus dignified her just as He did the Samaritan woman at the well (John 4:1-26). When she left, her daughter was healed and her faith in Jesus ignited.

What is the point of you arguing about something you don't know and understand? Your conclusions are so wrong because you don't know what you're talking about!
 
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