Speaking in tongues. What is it and what's its purpose?

phipps

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When I was young, we would visit my aunt during the school holidays. She lived opposite an evangelical Church that was held outside and part of their worship was speaking in tongues. We would watch them talk in an unknown language that no one could understand, scream, shake manically, cry, laugh, fall down and writhe on the floor etc. Also when I was a teenager, a friend invited me to her church, another evangelical Church and they had the same part of worship as the Church opposite my aunt's house. I asked her why they do it and she told me it meant you've been baptised by the Holy spirit. To me they looked like they were possessed by demons. What does the Bible say about speaking in tongues? This is going to be lengthy.


The Work of the Holy Spirit

What then does the Bible say about the gift of tongues? Is it the miraculous sign that signifies the baptism of the Holy Spirit, as many believe? In order to understand the gift of tongues, we must first understand the purpose of this gift and the work of the Holy Spirit. So let’s begin with a closer look at the work of the Holy Spirit. This work is described in John 16:6-14:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment Of sin, because they believe not on me; of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify Me: for he shall receive of Mine, and shall show [it] unto you" (emphases added).

Let us look closely at this passage. First, the Holy Spirit is a Comforter. The word in the Greek is paraklētos:
  • Summoned, called to one’s side, esp. called to one’s aid; in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant.
  • An intercessor, consoler: - advocate, comforter.
In short then, the work of the Holy Spirit is to come to our aid, to intercede, to strengthen (succor), console, and to help us. John 16:6-14 also provides a more detailed description of the Spirit’s work:
  1. Reproving the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment,
  2. Guiding us into all truth, and
  3. Glorifying Christ.
These are the parameters of the Holy Spirit’s work which God has laid out in Scripture. And we shouldn’t try to make the Holy Spirit work outside of these parameters, either!


The Genuine Gift of Tongues

The word "tongue" in the Bible simply means "a language."

God gives all the gifts of the Spirit to fill a practical need. What was the need for tongues?

Jesus told His followers, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19). This command posed a problem. How could the apostles go out preaching to all the world when they spoke only one or two languages? After all, Jesus' disciples were very bright, even though most of them were not formally educated. In order to fulfil the great commission, He promised to give them a unique gift from the Holy Spirit. It was a miraculous, supernatural ability to speak foreign languages they had not formerly studied or known for the purpose of spreading the Gospel.

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; ... they shall speak with new tongues" (Mark 16:17).
The fact that Jesus said these new tongues, or languages, would be a "sign" indicates that the ability to speak them would not come as the result of normal linguistic study. Rather, it would be an instantaneous gift to fluently preach in a previously unfamiliar language.

There are only three actual examples of speaking in tongues recorded in the Bible (Acts chapters 2, 10, and 19). If we look at these three cases, we should find a clearer picture of this controversial gift.

"When the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven [divided] tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:1-4).

Fire is a symbol for power. God sent this gift in the form of tongues of fire so they would know that He would empower their feeble tongues in the same way He strengthened Moses to go before Pharaoh (Exodus 4:10-12) and touched Isaiah's lips with a coal from the heavenly altar (Isaiah 6:6, 7).

Why did the Lord wait until Pentecost to bestow this gift? Acts 2:5-11 sets the scene: "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? ... We do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."

The day of Pentecost was a Jewish holy day that fell 50 days after Passover. Devoted Israelites would come from all over the Roman empire to worship in Jerusalem. God chose this timely opportunity to bestow this gift of tongues upon the disciples so they could preach to the visiting Jews in their native languages. At least 15 different language groups were represented in the crowd that day (Acts 2:9-11)! As a result, thousands of these visitors were converted. Then, after Pentecost, they in turn carried their new faith home to their respective countries.

From this example it should be very clear that the gift of tongues was given to communicate the gospel in different existing languages of the world.

Some have mistakenly suggested that the miracle on Pentecost was a gift to hear and understand different languages. It was not a gift of hearing given to the listeners, but rather a gift of the Spirit given to enable the believers to speak (Acts 2:4). It is not called the gift of ears for the listeners, but the gift of tongues for the speakers. Furthermore, the sign was not ears of fire on the listeners, but tongues of fire on the ones preaching.

It is also sometimes suggested that the gift of tongues is a "heavenly language" understood only by God or those with the gift of interpretation. The Bible is clear in Acts chapter 2 that both the disciples and those listening understood what was being preached-"the wonderful works of God" (Verse 11).

Let's look now at the second example when Peter preached to Cornelius and his household: "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God" (Acts 10:44-46).

Acts 10:1 tells us that Cornelius was Italian, while Peter was a Jew and spoke Aramaic. History also tells us that the servants in a Roman home could be from anywhere in the world. Because there were obvious language barriers at this meeting, Peter likely began to preach through an interpreter. But when the Holy Ghost fell upon Cornelius and his household, the Jews with Peter could understand the Gentiles speaking in languages other than their native tongues. The record is that the Jews heard them "magnify God" in these languages. When later reporting this experience to the church leaders, Peter said, "The Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning" (Acts 11:15, emphasis added).

Peter here plainly tells us that Cornelius and his family received the same gift of tongues in the same way the disciples did on the day of Pentecost. In other words, they spoke languages they had not formerly known in a way that could be understood.

The third and final example of speaking in tongues is when Paul preached to 12 Ephesian disciples. Acts 19:6 records, "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

Paul was the most educated and widely travelled of the apostles, and he spoke many languages (1 Corinthians 14:18). When the Holy Spirit came upon these 12 Ephesian men, Paul recognized that they were prophesying, or preaching, in new languages. Most likely they spoke in languages common throughout the Roman Empire, since that would be practical for spreading the Gospel. Luke does not say that they received a form of tongues different from the first two examples, so we must assume that it was the same type of gift given at Pentecost.

You'll find that the only times the gift of tongues was associated with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit is when people from more than one language group were gathered together, thus creating communication barriers.

Notice that in Acts chapter 4 you have a repeat of the experience described in chapter 2. The place was shaken and they were filled with the Holy Spirit, but because there were no foreigners present, the gift of tongues was absent. Acts 4:31 says, "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."

The purpose for the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not to mutter or babble unintelligible sounds, but rather to have power for preaching. This is why Jesus said, "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:8).


The Message to Corinth

Of the 14 New Testament books written by Paul, 1 Corinthians is the only one in which he deals with the subject of tongues. The Corinthian church obviously had a specific, temporary problem because Paul's second letter to Corinth never even mentions tongues.

The ancient city of Corinth was famous for its two international seaports. Because the Corinthian church was a melting pot of many different nationalities, its services often became chaotic and confusing. Evidently some of the members would pray, testify, or preach in languages unknown to the others present. This is why Paul commanded that if they spoke in a tongue unknown to the majority, they should remain silent unless there was someone there to interpret or translate (1 Corinthians 14:28). In other words, it's not polite to speak in a language that your audience cannot understand. Listen to these plain statements from the apostle: "Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. ... Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. ... If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God" (1 Corinthians 14:6-9, 19, 27, 28).

It is truly amazing that some people take this passage and use it as an excuse to babble during services! The consistent message of Paul throughout Scripture is the very opposite. In 1 Timothy 6:20, he specifically mentions "avoiding profane and vain babblings." And in 2 Timothy 2:16, Paul repeats that counsel: "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness." In other words, the very purpose for the gift of speech is to communicate your thoughts. If those present do not understand your communication, then keep silent.


We are all blessed with different spiritual gifts.

"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will" 1 Corinthians 12:3-12. These texts make it clear that God is the one who decides which gifts are for whom. Clearly, the gift of tongues was given to some and not to others.


Who Benefits from the Gift of Tongues?

To be given a gift that does not benefit those that do not know Christ is no gift, but a hindrance. To be filled with the Holy Spirit is to have the Spirit of God moving upon your conscience and your will. Evidence of that Presence will be seen in a life that grows ever closer to the ideal set forth by Jesus Christ Himself. We may stumble, we may falter, but if our lives are given over to the control of the Holy Spirit we will get up, and move forward, realizing our desperate need of Christ in every area of our life.

The gift of tongues is a true sign, but only as it is expressed and used according to the parameters of God’s unchanging Word.


You can read the full articles in the links below.

http://amazingdiscoveries.org/AD-magazine-archive-Spring-2013-Tongues-HolySpirit
https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/84/t/understanding-tongues
 
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phipps

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Creative Counterfeit

The genuine gift of tongues is a powerful tool for the proclamation of the gospel. But remember, the devil has a counterfeit for every truth of God.

Glossolalia (glô´se-lâ’ lê-a) is the word often used to describe the popular experience found in most charismatic churches. It is defined in the American Heritage Dictionary as: "fabricated and non-meaningful speech, especially such speech associated with a trance state or certain schizophrenic syndromes."

Contrast that with the same dictionary's definition for a language: "The use by human beings of voice sounds, and often written symbols representing these sounds, in organized combinations and patterns in order to express and communicate thoughts and feelings." By any definition, the disjointed sounds of glossolalia are not a language.

Believe me, I have seen this practice many times. In one charismatic church I used to attend, the pastor and his wife were a "tongues team." Every week in the middle of the pastor's sermon, his wife would jump to her feet, throw her arms in the air, and break out in ecstatic utterance. But she always said the same thing. "Handa kala shami, handa kala shami, handa kala shami... ." Over and over again. This instantly seemed suspicious to me because Jesus said, "But when ye pray use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do" (Matthew 6:7).

Each time this happened, the woman's husband would stop preaching and provide a dubious English translation for her so-called message. Usually it began with "Thus saith the Lord." Yet in spite of the fact that she always repeated the words "handa kala shami," the pastor's vague interpretation was different each time-and sometimes three times longer than the utterance. I used to wonder why, if this was a message from God, wouldn't He give it to us in English the first time.


How God's Spirit Affects Us

The concept that a person who is "slain in the spirit" should fall to the ground and wallow and mutter is an insult to the Holy Ghost. The reason God gives us His Spirit is to restore in us His image-not to rob us of all dignity and self control!

On mount Carmel, the pagan prophets of Baal jumped on the altar and shouted and moaned. They prophesied and cut themselves. By contrast, Elijah quietly knelt and prayed a simple prayer (1 Kings 18:17-46).

"For God is not the author of confusion" (1 Corinthians 14:33). If God is not responsible, then who is?

The idea that we lose control when we receive the Spirit is not consistent with Scripture. "The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" (1 Corinthians 14:32).

Here's another case in point. After Jesus saved a berserk, demon-possessed man by the sea, the healed man was seen "sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind" (Luke 8:35). The invitation of God is "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord" (Isaiah 1:18). He wants us to use our heads.

Some of you reading this study are no doubt thinking: "How dare you say these things? I have spoken in tongues for years and know it is from God!" As Christians, we should never base our conclusions on how we feel. After all, the devil can certainly make us feel good. Rather, we must base our beliefs upon the sure Word of God.

A friend of mine was an active charismatic who often spoke in tongues. When he studied these things, he began to question if this "gift" was from the right spirit. So he sincerely prayed and said, "Lord, if this is not Your will and if I am not experiencing the true gift of tongues, then please take it away!" He told me that from that day on, the experience of glossolalia never returned. A true Christian should be willing to surrender every cherished view and practice on the altar of God's will and forsake any practice that may be questionable-no matter how popular, accepted, or beloved among other Christians. There are some things that are highly esteemed among men but are an abomination in the sight of God (Luke 16:15).

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/84/t/understanding-tongues
 
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Thunderian

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Good stuff. The gift of tongues has been misunderstood and misappropriated in these last days.

Proverbs 25:14 - Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.
 

Karlysymon

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It gets even more creepy…

George Estabrooks (grandfather of 20th century hypnotists) explained such religious/supernatural phenomena as speaking in tongues, the appearance of stigmata, and the channeling of ‘spirits’ by ‘mediums,’ as hypnotic/dis-sociative phenomena.

http://ahrp.org/1963-hypnotist-george-estabrooks-admits-creating-multiple-personality-assassins/
and
http://www.constantinereport.com/mind-control-a-course-in-miracles-a-ciaunity-church-thought-manipulation-device/

Its definitely a weird ‘gift’ from the espionage complex to the churches. :rolleyes:
 

Todd

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Who Benefits from the Gift of Tongues?

To be given a gift that does not benefit those that do not know Christ is no gift, but a hindrance.
How do you explain 1 Corinthians 14:1-40
Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. ...

Paul certainly seems to be speaking of something other than the gift of speaking an intelligible language that you don't know.

Some argue that Romans 8:26 refers to a prayer language...but I am not entirely sure that is what it means.
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Also 1 Corinithians 14:13-17 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up
As a former charismatic I have seen my share of false/counterfeit manifestations, but I'm not convinced that there isn't a real prayer language that is for the believer to use in his own private prayers. Certainly the gift of tongues as prayer language is not as valuable as the gift of prophecy or other gifts that build up others in the body of Christ, but Paul appears to be addressing something other than just what was manifest at Pentecost.

I still pray in tongues on occasion, but in private and never in a public setting.

I am not tyring to convince anyone, but curious how you all read the scriptures I have posted above.
 

phipps

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Heavenly Prayer Language?

Many of my charismatic friends would agree that the tongues spoken in the book of Acts were normal languages of the world. But they quickly add that there is a second gift-a heavenly prayer language. This gift, they say, is to express the Spirit's "groanings which cannot be uttered" (Romans 8:26). The purpose, they say, is so the devil cannot understand our prayers. But nowhere are we taught to hide our prayers from the devil. He trembles when he hears Christians pray!

This doctrine of a prayer language is based mainly upon 1 Corinthians 14:14 where Paul says, "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."

They interpret this to mean that when Paul prayed in the Spirit, he used a "heavenly tongue" and did not himself know what he was praying. This theory raises an important question. How would the supplicant ever know if his prayer was answered?

So what is Paul really saying in 1 Corinthians 14:14? The problem in understanding this verse comes largely from the cumbersome translation. Please allow me to rephrase the verse in modern English: "If I pray in a language those around me do not know, I might be praying with the Spirit, but my thoughts would be unfruitful for those listening." Paul is adamant that if we pray out loud, we should either pray so others around us can understand or else keep quiet! Notice the next few verses: "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest" (1 Corinthians 14:15,16)? According to this text, who has the problem with understanding? It is the listener and not the speaker as is commonly taught. If you have ever prayed with someone who is offering a prayer in a language unknown to you, then you know what Paul meant when he said it is difficult for you to say "Amen" (meaning "so be it") at the end of the prayer. Without an interpreter, you have no idea to what you are assenting. You may have just asked a blessing on the devil as far as you can tell!

It is obvious from the context of 1 Corinthians 14 that the purpose of speaking in tongues, or foreign languages, is to communicate the gospel and thereby edify the church. If the listeners do not understand the spoken language they cannot be edified. Consequently, if there is no interpreter, the speaker is simply speaking into the air and the only ones present who know what is being said are God and himself. This is the clear meaning of the often-misquoted verse 2. "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."

Paul emphasizes again that the languages spoken need to be understood by the hearers or else the one who wants to share the mysteries of the gospel needs to sit quietly in meditation between himself and God. "So likewise ye; except ye utter by tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air." "But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God" (verses 9, 28). Clearly, the entire purpose of tongues is to cross language barriers and communicate the gospel!

Some have asked, "Didn't Paul say he spoke with the tongues of angels?"

No. Paul said, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels ..." (1 Corinthians 13:1, emphasis added). If you read this verse in its context, you will see that the word "though" means "even if." For example, Paul also said in verse 2, "Though I have all faith ..." He did not have all faith. And verse 3 adds, "Though I give my body to be burned ..." Paul was beheaded, not burned. So we can see that Paul here used the word "though" to mean "even if."

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/84/t/understanding-tongues
 
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floss

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Mark 16:17-18 King James Version (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Like pretty much everything in the Bible, GOD required faith FIRST, then evidence come later. Speaking in tongue is powerful. Of course the devil always counterfeit things and not surprising there are fake speaking in tongues which are to discredit the real one. If you come to God doubting speaking in tongue, then that's what you'll get but I assured you'll be lacking a great deal of spirituality.

There are limitation when praying in our mother's tongues but the gift of speaking in tongues break those boundaries. God wanted us to pray without ceasing, how is this possible without speaking in tongues? The Bible is deeply spiritual, the only way you'll receive this gift is to let go of your doubts. I personally have cast out devils with speaking in tongues. If you want this spiritual gift:

1. repent to the Father and ask Him to remove all doubts you had regarding speaking with new tongues
2. pray and ask Him for this spiritual gift in your life
3. find some quiet place just between you and the Lord
4. pray and plead Mark 16:17 over you and believe you've received it
5. once you have the faith, begin to open your mouth loudly and start speaking this new tongue
- this is an outward expression of your inward faith of speaking in tongues. it WILL come out as long as you don't have any doubts

speaking in tongue are not demonic...however fake tongues are demonic. it's a thin line, just a hint of doubts then you won't receive or believe it.
 

Todd

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So I am curious, how many of you who are against speaking tongues as a prayer language have the gift of prophecy or have people in your congregations that do?
 

phipps

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Mark 16:17-18 King James Version (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Like pretty much everything in the Bible, GOD required faith FIRST, then evidence come later. Speaking in tongue is powerful. Of course the devil always counterfeit things and not surprising there are fake speaking in tongues which are to discredit the real one. If you come to God doubting speaking in tongue, then that's what you'll get but I assured you'll be lacking a great deal of spirituality.

There are limitation when praying in our mother's tongues but the gift of speaking in tongues break those boundaries. God wanted us to pray without ceasing, how is this possible without speaking in tongues? The Bible is deeply spiritual, the only way you'll receive this gift is to let go of your doubts. I personally have cast out devils with speaking in tongues. If you want this spiritual gift:

1. repent to the Father and ask Him to remove all doubts you had regarding speaking with new tongues
2. pray and ask Him for this spiritual gift in your life
3. find some quiet place just between you and the Lord
4. pray and plead Mark 16:17 over you and believe you've received it
5. once you have the faith, begin to open your mouth loudly and start speaking this new tongue
- this is an outward expression of your inward faith of speaking in tongues. it WILL come out as long as you don't have any doubts

speaking in tongue are not demonic...however fake tongues are demonic. it's a thin line, just a hint of doubts then you won't receive or believe it.
Tongues means languages in the Bible. Its a gift from God to speak a different language immediately without living in the country or taking classes to learn the language. That would take years. Jesus must have been talking about the disciples who will preach the gospel after He went back to heaven. Indeed they spoke in new tongues and performed miracles. The gift of tongues was clearly a gift of communication, intended to facilitate the spreading of the Gospel. I'll repost part of what I posted above too.

"It is also sometimes suggested that the gift of tongues is a"heavenly language" understood only by God or those with the gift of interpretation. The Bible is clear in Acts chapter 2 that both the disciples and those listening understood what was being preached-"the wonderful works of God" (Verse 11)."

Prayer is the opening up of our heart to God like a friend and speaking in an incoherent language that we've neither spoken or understand is useless. When we pray why should we use another language in our alone intimate communion with God? There is always purpose to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. As Christians we should always be alert and in control, not mumbling and babbling and gyrating etc.
 
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Todd

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Tongues means languages in the Bible. Its a gift from God to speak a different language immediately without living in the country or taking clases to learn the language. That would take years. Jesus must have been talking about the disciples who will preach the gospel after He went back to heaven. Indeed they spoke in new tongues and performed miracles. The gift of tongues was clearly a gift of communication, intended to facilitate the spreading of the Gospel. I'll repost part of what I posted above too.

"It is also sometimes suggested that the gift of tongues is a"heavenly language" understood only by God or those with the gift of interpretation. The Bible is clear in Acts chapter 2 that both the disciples and those listening understood what was being preached-"the wonderful works of God" (Verse 11)."

Prayer is the opening up of our heart to God like a friend and speaking in an incoherent language that we've neither spoken or understand is useless. When we pray why should we use another language in our alone intimate communion with God? There is always purpose to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. As Christians we should always be alert and in control, not mumbling and babbling and gyrating etc.
I agree with you that tongues was used by God in the early chruch to preach the gospel to those who spoke other languages that the disciples did not know. But how does that explain why Paul spoke of tongues that did require an interpretation. If the only point was for the disciples to communicate to people who speak another language what would be the purpose of the spiritual gift of interpretation?

BTW, I'm with you that uncontrollable babbling and gyrations is not a true manifestation of the spirit of God. I'm just curious what your take is on the other "supernautral" gifts of the spirit that Paul mentions. What is your take on the gift of prophecy and word of knowledge or word of wisdom, for example....
 

Vytas

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Devil trembles when Christians pray ?..As devil said himself I know Paul and I know Jesus but who are you ??
...No tongues has nothing to do with speaking different languages any Pentecostal or charismatic church members here ? I'm ex member so I do not count, however I still pray in tongues and find it very beneficial...But I'm not a best person to explain things...
 

Todd

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Devil trembles when Christians pray ?..As devil said himself I know Paul and I know Jesus but who are you ??
...No tongues has nothing to do with speaking different languages any Pentecostal or charismatic church members here ? I'm ex member so I do not count, however I still pray in tongues and find it very beneficial...But I'm not a best person to explain things...
The standard Charismatic answer: Tongues is so when your mind does not know what to pray, thje spirit can pray through us. The expected intent is that as you yield your tongue to the Spirit, you will receive undestanding and then pray with your mind also. James said the tongue is the most unruly member of the body. The Charismatic thought is that tongues is the sign of submitting your tongue to the Spirit of God.

I know for me, when I can not find the words to pray, praying in tongues settles my mind and keeps me from having racing thoughts. There is a calming and peaceful effect from praying in tongues. Am I speaking an actual heavenly language that the Sprit of God undertstands? I don't know...maybe it's just a mediation technique that brings peace and focus to a wandering carnal mind. If done with trust and faith in God, is that such a bad thing? I agree that uncontrollable utterances and physical gyrations are questionable at best. When I pray in tongues I still have control to stop whenever I want and it's still a conscious decision to "yield" my tongue to the Spririt.

Because of this I only use it in my personal and private time. I no longer pray aloud in tongues when praying around or with others.

I've read and heard a lot of arguments from both sides of the table and have yet to hear or read a totally satisfactory answer from either side. Though I've seen and experienced the obviously false and contrived "manifestations" I also have deep respect for the faith and evidence of Godly character in some people who fully believe in tongues. I'm not to say that praying in tongues is any sort of gage of sprirituality, as there are many immature and carnal minded christians who pray in tongues.
 

Vytas

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I still witnessed powerful effect in group tongues prayer even without interpreter. But adequate pastor must be present who teach and correct errors...Other than that I agree 100 %
 

cfowen

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The gifts were a manifestation of the New Covenant, which SOLELY belongs to Israel, as it so very plainly says in Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:8. The saved Gentiles in the Acts church also had these Gifts, but ONLY because they were grafted into Israel and were, therefore. part of Israel. Had Israel repented and accepted Christ, during Acts, the Gifts would not stopped, prophecy would have continued being fulfilled, Elijah would have returned and Israel's earthly Kingdom (not the Millennium) would have commenced, with Christ ruling from the Heavens. Of course, that would mean that the present 2000 year parenthetical, all- Gentile program, found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, would not have existed.

Israel didn't repent and, because of that, they ceased to exist in God's eyes, when Paul quoted Isaiah 6:9-10 to them, for it's 7th and last time in scripture, in Acts 28:25-27, 63AD, and then dropped the final hammer on them by taking the Salvation of God (Jesus Christ) from them and giving it to the Gentiles vs 28, who, unlike Israel, would hear HIM. During Acts, the Gentiles NEVER had Jesus Christ (Eph 2:11-12). Note that the Greek word, translated as "departed", in Ac 28:25, is the same word translated as "divorce", or something meaning divorce, in several places, e.g., Mt 1:19, 5:31,32. At that point, Israel ceased to be the "wife" of God, legally, due to their many "adultery" offenses.

Israel became "not My people", as in Hos 1:9, but will be revived after 2 days (Hos 6:2), i.e., 2000 years, which should take place in about 2063. Most of Hosea is about Israel's present Lo-ammi situation (see Hos 1:9). God will now be able to legally marry the "Bride", who will be wholly composed of portions of Israel - the remnants and all other special Jews, like Abraham, Moses, the 12. etc., plus those few Gentiles in Acts who were grafted into Israel and were members of the all-Israel church in Acts. Once God is All in All, these will be the residents of the New Jerusalem, the all-Israel prize of their Calling from Gen 12 through the end of Acts.

So, when Israel ceased to exist as a nation, in 63AD, EVERYTHING associated with Israel was postponed, and those 100% Israel things, like the Gifts, the rapture, the Acts church, water Baptism, the Great Commission, the New Covenant, and many, many other things given ONLY to Israel and NEVER to any Gentile after 63AD, also ceased to exist and have not existed in the last 1955 years. All present alleged manifestations of any of the Gifts either result from mass hysteria, mass hypnosis, or from an evil spirit, or from all 3. I stupidly spent 2 years going to a large assortment of Charismatic/Pentecostal churches in Houston. I saw literally 100s of alleged displays of the Gifts of the Spirit and, NOT ONCE, did any of these resemble anything in the Bible. The people subjectively "performing" these "gifts" were true believers, though. They just didn't realize that subjective experience NEVER defines Biblical truth. Once God's Word defines truth
 

Vytas

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New covenant belongs only to Israel?? I hope you observe Torah to the letter then...otherwise you are done might as well go and kill yourself will not make any difference.
Regarding charizmats I regret that is your experience, mine is very different...But I know there are hundreds of fake churches. Mine reason for leaving was that they were salivating over Israel. Almost like you :) But me leaving was a mistake, now I know...Are you aware what are the gifts of hply spirit ? Because I have hard time believing you never saw anything even in fake church...
 

phipps

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Devil trembles when Christians pray ?..As devil said himself I know Paul and I know Jesus but who are you ??
...No tongues has nothing to do with speaking different languages any Pentecostal or charismatic church members here ? I'm ex member so I do not count, however I still pray in tongues and find it very beneficial...But I'm not a best person to explain things...
We've already established that speaking in tongues in the Bible means speaking in another language as the story of Pentecost makes clear. When the disciples who received the gift of tongues the people who spoke in those languages understood them. Is the Bible lying?

"And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? ... We do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."

And speaking in tongues/languages is not spiritual gift that everybody has as Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians 12:4-12.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Clearly, the gift of tongues was given to some and not to others. Pentecostal doctrine says that everyone should speak in tongues, making the receiving of the gift of tongues a test of acceptance by God. However, that doctrine does not fall in line with Scripture.

Spiritual gifts are talents or interests given to a Christian by the Holy Spirit after they join the fellowship of believers or upon baptism. Just as when Jesus was baptized: by John, and the Spirit of God descended upon Him in the form of a dove, so anyone who is baptized by water is to also to receive the Spirit, for only with the presence of the Holy Spirit in a person's life are they able to walk the Christian life.

So if you are babbling unintelligible things like the lady in the video below, that isn't biblical. The disciples who received the gift of speaking in tongues/languages used it to preach the gospel around the world. All our spiritual gifts are given to us to serve God with. There is a purpose for having them.



What the lady is doing in the video is called glossolalia. The dictionary describes it as "the phenomenon of (apparently) speaking in an unknown language, especially in religious worship. It is practised especially by Pentecostal and charismatic Christians." This is not biblical and actually comes from pagan practices. What purpose does it serve anyway? Its not like anyone could understand if they tried because they themselves don't know what they are saying. Lets follow what the Bible says rather than the doctrine of men. There a lot of things in Christian churches that are not biblical. As Christians we should strive to do what the Bible says because its God's word. If our Church doctrine doesn't fall in line with biblical teaching, we are to do what the Bible says. Like Peter said in Acts 5:29, "We ought to obey God rather than men."
 
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Todd

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So gift of prophecy, word of knowledge? Yes/no/went away with tongues in Acts? Anyone? Bueller?...Bueller?
 

phipps

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New covenant belongs only to Israel?? I hope you observe Torah to the letter then...otherwise you are done might as well go and kill yourself will not make any difference.
Regarding charizmats I regret that is your experience, mine is very different...But I know there are hundreds of fake churches. Mine reason for leaving was that they were salivating over Israel. Almost like you :) But me leaving was a mistake, now I know...Are you aware what are the gifts of hply spirit ? Because I have hard time believing you never saw anything even in fake church...
New covenant belongs to spiritual Israel. In the the Bible there is literal and spiritual Israel. Literal Israel rejected God and the gospel was taken from them to the gentiles and the whole world. True Christianity is spiritual Israel which is still Israel. The words "New covenant" should have been a clue to what I was talking about.

I am aware of the gifts of the Holy spirit because the Bible talks about them. When we all come to Christ we get different gifts of the Holy spirit which we should use to serve God with. I'm going to post information about them in a separate post.
 
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phipps

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Six Things You Should Know About Spiritual Gifts


God has given every believer a treasure more valuable than ancient antiques. It’s a gift many have never discovered. Here are six important lessons from the Bible about spiritual gifts.

1. Every Christian has been given at least one spiritual gift.
The Bible says, “As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God” (1 Peter 4:10). If you have given your life to Jesus, you are promised special abilities to help spread the gospel. Finding and using your talents is a responsibility outlined in Jesus’ parable of the talents in Matthew 25:14–30.

2. Gifts are intended to build up the body of Christ.
The purpose of your unique talents are to strengthen God’s church. The apostle Paul taught about gifts in his letter to the church in Corinth. He says, “But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all” (v. 7). Everyone benefits when you properly use your gifts. While you may use them in the marketplace, you cannot neglect them in the church.

3. We do not choose our gifts.
While we certainly should desire and pray for expanded abilities, the Holy Spirit gives us our gifts. We cannot simply purchase them online. Notice, “For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit” (v. 8). The Holy Spirit distributes gifts, not the pastor or a committee.

4. It dishonors God when you deny your gift.
When comparing the church to a human body, he explains, “If the foot should say, ‘Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body,’ is it therefore not of the body?” (v. 15). The answer is, of course it’s still part of the body! It’s one thing to be humble about your gifts; it’s another to reject your gifts from God.

5. It dishonors God when you exalt your gift.
Paul also warns, “The eye cannot say to the hand, ‘I have no need of you’” (v. 21). He explains, “No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary” (v. 22). The fact a body is made up of many different parts is what makes it a body. So if you feel you cannot stand up and preach a sermon, you are still gifted and God has a special place for you somewhere.

6. Gifts are useless if they are not used in love.
One of the most sobering statements made about spiritual gifts is found in 1 Corinthians 13, the love chapter. While we hear these verses often spoken at weddings, they really focus on people’s gifts. Basically, Paul says, if you use your gifts without love, they have no value. They only make a bunch of useless noise (v. 1).

You can find lists of gifts in three major passages of the Bible (Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4, and 1 Peter 4). There are hints in other places in Scripture as well.

Don’t be like Alexander and simply stumble on your treasures. Purposely pray, study, and ask God to reveal to you the special gifts He has placed within your life. Then use them to build up God’s kingdom!
 

Vytas

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New covenant belongs to spiritual Israel. In the the Bible there is literal and spiritual Israel. Literal Israel rejected God and the gospel was taken from them gentiles and the whole world. True Christianity is spiritual Israel which is still Israel. The words "New covenant" should have been a clue to what I was talking about.

I am aware of the gifts of the Holy spirit because the Bible talks about them. When we all come to Christ we get different gifts of the Holy spirit which we should use to serve God with. I'm going to post information about them in a separate post.
So now it's spiritual Israel? Why you changing your tune ? That is not what you said few post above, in Jeremiah and Hebrew verses even house of Judah is mentioned and we know who are those.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hebrews 8:10 KJV
Is this what happened after Jesus? Clearly it's the covenant mentioned in Ezekiel...After stuff happens...
Six things you should know ? Read that yourself...
 
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