Todd
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  • We do not start our Christian lives by working out our faith for ourselves; it is mediated to us by Christian tradition, in the form of sermons, books and established patterns of church life and fellowship. We read our Bibles in the light of what we have learned from these sources; we approach Scripture with minds already formed by the mass of accepted opinions and viewpoints with which we have come into contact.
    Blizzard conditions here in Buffalo, NY. The factory I work at closed at Noon and already decided we would be closed tomorrow.

    So instead I will be driving aides who can’t get to our clients who can’t be left home alone.
    How do you know when you have "won" a religious debate? When the person you are debating with stops attempting to use intellect, logic and exegesis of scripture, and then resorts to accusations and judgements about the condition of your soul.
    Damien50
    Damien50
    Debate doesn't edify or amplify the process of becoming closer to God rather it distances one from God because the focus of winning becomes about self rather than helping. No one knows the condition of another's soul or their final destination yet others brag and condemn on their own judgement.
    Todd
    Todd
    @Damien50 I agree, which is why I put "won" in quotation marks. I'm not really concerned if anyone accepts or rejects my arguments. I am just disappointed when those who claim to be Christian, resort to vitriol and condemnation when someone doesn't see eye to eye.
    JoChris
    JoChris
    Todd, it wouldn't matter to you if any Christians typed with the same level of knowledge or eloquence as these preachers (dealing with a key doctrine that you contradict the bible upon). https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermons.asp?keyword=Hell
    You have hardened your heart against the Christian message.
    Will Jesus give you the "thumbs up" on Judgement Day, when you do not believe what He says?
    Where Jesus tried to create Christian individuals, Saint Paul tried to create Christian groups. This opened the door to hypocrisy, externalism, materialism, ritualism, priestcraft, persecution, and deterioration. The realizable kingdom of heaven within man had to give way to an unrealizable kingdom of God on earth. The way back to true religion must therefore lie through making a fresh start-Notebooks of Paul Brunton
    I am still baffled why so many Christians come to a conspiracy website to regurgitate the same old tired doctrines of man they received from institutionalized religion. How is it they can see conspiracy in every other area of society except for this? Jesus had very radical ideas compared with the mainstream "orthodox" religion of his day. Jesus was a heretic by the purest defintion...
    “Without the persistent rising up of individuals that seek the Lord and place themselves under His direct leadership, churches will inevitably...slip into human hierarchy, institutionalizing a system of doctrines and practices.”
    ― Henry Hon, ONE: Unfolding God's Eternal Purpose from House to House
    Matthew 10:8 versus 2 cor 11:8 and 1 Timothy 5:7-18
    Matthew 23:9 versus 1 Cor 4:15
    Jesus taught we are all equal in Christ. He Is the only Pastor and Teacher.
    Paul taught hierarchy in the church and is the basis for the differentiation between "clergy" and "laity".
    Genesis 49:27 Benjamin is a ravenous wolf; in the morning he devours the prey, in the evening he divides the plunder / spoils.
    Paul was a Benjamite. Paul in his early days killed christians. In his latter days he promoted the division of gentiles and jews by saying he alone was the apsotle of the gentiles. Peter on the other hand recieved the revelation that he was to preach the same gospel to jews AND gentiles.
    Etagloc
    Etagloc
    What is a Benjamite?
    Todd
    Todd
    Someone from the tribe of Benjamin.
    It's ineteresting that the only explicit testimony that Paul was "a servant of the most high" and caried "a way of salvation" recorded in the bible is the testimony of a prophetess with the Spirit of Python. So the stongest testimony and affrimation of Paul's ministry was from Satan?
    “'Cursed is the one who perverts the justice due the stranger, the fatherless, and widow.' "And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'” (Deut. 27:19.)
    Versus...
    Do not let a widow under sixty years old be taken into the number.
    But refuse the younger widows
    (1 timothy 5:9-12)
    Todd
    Todd
    “Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, ‘Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,’ but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?” (James 2:15-16)

    James 1:27 27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world
    Dalit
    Dalit
    One of my best friends and a mentor is an elderly widow. Actually, she doesn't seem elderly at all. She's who I want to be like when I grow up. :-)
    Likes: mecca
    Matthew 23:10 And do not accept the name of 'leader,' for your Leader is one alone--the Christ

    John 6:45 it is having been written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God; every one therefore who heard from the Father, and learned, cometh to me;
    John 14:26 and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you.
    P
    phipps
    "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad" (Matthew 12:30). God chose all the apostles and yet you've picked Paul out because He doesn't say what you want in the way He should to please you. "Every word of God is confirmed out of the mouth of two or three witnesses. I see a lot in Paul's writing not confirmed anywhere else in the Bible." Give me examples of this.
    P
    phipps
    We'll continue this tomorrow because I have to go to bed but it would be great to show examples of Paul's writings that are not confirmed elsewhere in the Bible. This is really Goodnight.
    Todd
    Todd
    I already started to tonight in other status posts. Maybe more tomorrow as I too am getting ready for bed. Goodnight!
    "I ask again, how many shepherds will the followers of Jesus have? Jesus says 'one'. Paul - and the religion founded on his teachings (and the rest of the Bible apart from Jesus' teachings) - says 'millions'. Who are you going to believe?" - Is 'Going to Church' Compatible with the Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth? JesusFamilies.org
    "But since Christ's time, and down to ours, we find a deviation of doctrine from the foundations laid by Christ.
    This deviation begins ...with that lover of teaching, Paul: and the wider Christianity extends, the more it deviates and appropriates the methods of that very external worship and dogmatism the denial of which was so positively expressed by Christ." Tolstoy - The Church and State 1891.
    Todd
    Todd
    So how many times did Paul quote the words of Jesus? I only know of two specifically. Why would Jesus tell the apostles that the Holy Spirit would teach them by reminding them of what he said if his real intention was to teach Christianity through another that was not one of them?
    P
    phipps
    It doesn't matter how many times he quoted Christ, he preached Christ in his missionary work. Christ chose him, don't you get that? God would not choose someone who would have such enormous influence in Christianity who says anything against him. The Holy Spirit taught all the apostles including Paul and as you know we have their writings in the Bible to prove so. Not only Paul's.
    P
    phipps
    Like the apostles the Holy Spirit works in all of us to come to Christ and be submissive to His word. We are all admonished in the Bible to preach the word into all the world just like the apostles including Paul did. Read Mark 16. Paul himself said, "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" (Ephesians 4:30).
    “The most direct heirs of the Jewish-Christian groupings within earliest Christianity [i.e., the early Jerusalem church] regarded Paul as the great apostate, an arch enemy,” citing Epistula Petri 2.3; Clem. Hom. 17:18-19. (James D. G. Dunn, The Cambridge Companion to St. Paul (Cambridge University Press, 2003)
    "Paul does not know how to develop a hyperbaton, nor to conclude a sentence; and having to do with rude people, he has employed the conceptions, which, if, at the outset, he had not taken care to announce as spoken after the manner of men, would have shocked men of good sense". - Jerome in his Commentary on Galatians and Ephesians.
    Clearly any man can make claims for himself: but his claim is confirmed by another person’s attestation. One person writes the document, another signs it, a third attests the signature, and a fourth enters it in the records. No man is for himself both claimant and witness. If there is one that makes a false claim to be Christ, much more can there be one who professes that he is an apostle of Christ. -Tertullian
    "I must...approach this inquiry with uneasiness when I find one affirmed to be an apostle, of whom in the list of the apostles in the gospel I find no trace. So when I am told that Paul was subsequently promoted by our Lord, by now at rest in heaven, I find some lack of foresight in the fact that Christ did not know beforehand that he would have need of him" -Tertullian -- written in 207 A.D. in Against Marcion
    “This much is certain, that we have no theological right to set any sort of limits to the loving-kindness of God which has appeared in Jesus Christ. Our theological duty is to see and understand it as being still greater than we had seen before.”
    ― Karl Barth, The Humanity of God
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