bible_student
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So, are you going to try to deny that humans are smelly?
On the Trinity:
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bible_student
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P.S. You should think carefully before you answer.
John 14 28“You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.
As you can see Jesus said that the Father is greater than Him.
False humility ? Probably not.
John 16 5Now, however, I am going to Him who sent Me; yet none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6Instead, your hearts are filled with sorrow because I have told you these things. 7But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
8And when He comes, He will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see Me; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world has been condemned.
12I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it. 13However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come. 14He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you. 15Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.
As you can see Jesus said that He was going to the Father and that everything belonging to the Father was His. And here He sends the Holy spirit and in John 14:28 the Father sends the Holy spirit in Jesus name.
It's clear that the Father and Jesus are similar in nature and authority.
And they both wield the Holy spirit who glorifies Jesus.
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I didn't say humans are smelly so there is nothing to deny.
bible_student
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So are you therefore saying that humans are not smelly?
I've never said humans are smelly... so what's your point ?
What are you getting at pharisee ?
The prophet Isaiah who spoke for God in the Old Covenant prophesied that an impostor would also sit on the mount of the congregation.
That is the mount where the Israelites congregated... three times a year to worship God.
That's on the mount in Jerusalem.
Who sits there now ? That's right Allah.
Therefore Allah is an impostor and so the Koran is not of God.
You can subjectively disagree but it is an objective Bible truth.
Artful Revealer
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Historical records show that during the time of Isaiah a different god was worshiped than the god(s) worshiped under the United Monarchy. Among the gods worshiped in the Second Temple of Jerusalem was Baal. Less than 40 years after Christ came, the Temple and thus the worship of its deity, was removed from the Temple Mount.
Isaiah's prophecy had long happened before the rise of Islam.
bible_student
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If you never said humans are smelly, does that therefore mean that your position is that humans are not smelly?
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The organised religions, with their funny clothes, and buildings, etc., are not the Holy Books that they claim to themselves, and largely do the opposite of.
As I know you know what it says in Isaiah (King of kings' Bible):
29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [Me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear toward Me is taught by the precept of men:
I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I know him personally and he is definitely not a Farsi speaker: the language of Persia/Iran, who, when some of them returned with the kingdom of Judah from Babylonian captivity in 538BC to Jerusalem, were called Pharisees (from Farsi).
Another false and inaccurate accusation.
ON THE WAY TO EMMAUS AGAIN
"It was Simon, the wealthy Farsi (Pharisee), regarded as a seer by Pharisee and Sadducee alike, who had spoken. The one beside him was Alphaeus Cleophas, father of James the Lesser, now disciple of Jesus, and a man renowned for his learning of Greek and ancient classics, also Doctor of medicine and avowed member of the Therapeutist Community."
bible_student
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Ok, but if I ask you if humans are smelly animals, what answer would you give? Do humans get smelly?
The point should be self-evident from the answer (which you know - the answer to the question of whether humans are smelly animals). I hope, that you will give it some thought and then be able to honestly see it.
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Artful Revealer
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Since we're pressing for answers, can any of the JAH truthers denying Jesus' God status answer this?
The topic is about the Trinity after all.
Artful Revealer
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This doesn't address my arguments regarding John 5:30.
bible_student
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John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the Will of the Father which hath sent me.
Free Will is a requirement of being able to seek (either one's own will or the Will of Another).
If you don't have Free-Will, then you can't seek with option (to either seek or not seek).
A robot or gadget does not seek (with option, deciding to either do it or not do it - rather it just follows programming), a computer keyboard does not seek input. It only receives input and then as that happens, produces an appropriate output (as long as the keyboard works and the power is switched on, etc.).
So to be able to seek (and also have the option of not seeking) is not possible without the requirement of Free-Will being met.
Free Will is a requirement of being able to seek (either one's own will or the Will of Another).
If you don't have Free-Will, then you can't seek with option (to either seek or not seek).
A robot or gadget does not seek (with option, deciding to either do it or not do it - rather it just follows programming), a computer keyboard does not seek input. It only receives input and then as that happens, produces an appropriate output (as long as the keyboard works and the power is switched on, etc.).
So to be able to seek (and also have the option of not seeking) is not possible without the requirement of Free-Will being met.
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bible_student
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So-called Christians try to make the argument that Christ yielded His will to Father's Will in a demonstration to us, so that we no longer have to do it (!)
It is a totally deluded and ridiculous argument that falls apart even on the most superficial of levels of inspection.
That is the whole point of the trinity doctrine; which was created to provide the avenue into this deluded thinking process, which only leads people into a new kind of slavery as well as the reward of arrested development/growth.
It's a delusion.
It is a totally deluded and ridiculous argument that falls apart even on the most superficial of levels of inspection.
That is the whole point of the trinity doctrine; which was created to provide the avenue into this deluded thinking process, which only leads people into a new kind of slavery as well as the reward of arrested development/growth.
It's a delusion.
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Artful Revealer
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Again your rebuttal ignored the difference between a thing (a forum account) and a human. You're inserting a feature of free will that is completely irrelevant to the argument. "Free Will is a requirement of being able to seek". Yes, it's also a requirement to go against God's Will. It's a requirement to sin. It's a requirement to choose between having pasta or pizza for dinner. A forum account's lack of free will does not refute anything about the identity of the entity: it is through Jesus, and not any other human, that the world may perceive God, just as it is through bible_student, and not any other Vigilant forum account (unless you have sockpuppets), that the Vigilant community may perceive Daddy. And if Daddy does nothing, bible_student does nothing, therefore bible_student is Daddy; and if the Father does nothing, Jesus does nothing, therefore Jesus is God.
If I know you in real life and you post a thread and I reply "Hey, Daddy", the antitrinitarian would come in and say "Art dude, that's not Daddy, that's bible_student."
There, the level of antitrinitarianism in a nutshell.
bible_student
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You keep going back to this analogy of a forum account. Christ is not a forum account neither a "thing" (I don't know if you meant to imply that or if you did so by mistake). Christ is a Spirit-Being and He has God given Free-Will just like anyone else has. He submits to Father out of his own Free-Will. Therefore, to try and use this analogy is way off the mark. It doesn't apply and is starting to seems more like an attempt at deflection than anything else.
No. Jesus is not a forum account. It is a silly comparison.
The analogy fails because Christ is not a "forum account" (or in other words a puppet) He is the Oldest and First created Son of God (Michael The Archangel, The Prince of heaven and The Messiah); called the beginning of the creation of God in the book of Revelation (i.e. He is the First Angel that God created)
Daniel 9:25 ...the Messiah the Prince...
Daniel 10:21...Michael your Prince....
Rev. 3:14 And unto the angel of the community of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness (Christ - Rev. 1:5), the beginning of the creation of God;
And Christ has His own Free-Will (and He has His own hopes and dreams too) just like everyone else also has them.
What did Christ demonstrate? That when God called upon Him to do what he would rather not have to have done and gone through, He nevertheless did not hesitate but yielded his will to God's Will for His greater purpose and the sake of others (unselfishly giving up His human life to help all of us criminals).
Matthew 6:10 Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this "Cup" pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou [wilt].
26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.
26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this "Cup" (Holy Grail) may not pass away from me, except I drink it, Thy will be done.
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