On the Trinity:

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Rather just say what Jesus said and end it there, instead of saying what you want it to say or what you want to believe.

The task that Christ set before each and every one of His followers, is not an easy one, but is The Way of Obedience. He did not suggest to His followers a way they could take or not as they willed. His "Judge not" was imperative, and a new commandment He gave unto them that they should love.
Yes, you should. Stop thinking evil.
but why are you quoting the Devil ?
I quoted from the true Koran, which says the same as the Bible does, it even has cross references to it, which you could have checked. But instead, you chose to think evil and ask if I was a devil.
 





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How is that analogy the same? It is not.

The Athenasian Creed says that Christ is not the Father.

So, the analogy you gave cannot be logically used for trying to prove the Athenasian Creed.
This analogy shows the relationship between the Father (Daddy's self behind the computer) and the man Jesus (bible_student or Daddy's image in this realm (VigilantCitizenForums)). When bible_student reveals his Word on the VigilantCitizenForums, those who perceive that Word would be right to identify it as Daddy. This is about identity, not entity. The entity bible_student is not the entity Daddy, but it's the same identity.

If you want an analogy of how three persons can be one being, then it would be different. A Word cannot exist without a Thought. A Thought cannot exist without a Mind. You cannot separate these three, yet they are distinct:

They are distinct from Each Other. This statement is taken in a wrong sense by every uneducated as well as every perversely disposed person, as if it predicated a diversity, in such a sense as to imply a separation. - Tertullian
Jesus is God's Word in the flesh, aka, God's Word manifesting in our world so we can perceive it, just as bible_student's Word manifests itself on VigilantCitizenForum so we can perceive it, and that we - who don't know you - may know you.
 





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Rather just say what Jesus said and end it there, instead of saying what you want it to say or what you want to believe.
I am a spokesperson of Jesus Christ.

He chose me to speak for Him.


I quoted from the true Koran, which says the same as the Bible does, it even has cross references to it, which you could have checked. But instead, you chose to think evil and ask if I was a devil.
The Quran is the Devil's drivel.
 





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This analogy shows the relationship between the Father (Daddy's self behind the computer) and the man Jesus (bible_student or Daddy's image in this realm (VigilantCitizenForums)). When bible_student reveals his Word on the VigilantCitizenForums, those who perceive that Word would be right to identify it as bible_student. This is about identity, not entity. The entity bible_student is not the entity Daddy, but it's the same identity.

If you want an analogy of how three persons can be one being, then it would be different. A Word cannot exist without a Thought. A Thought cannot exist without a Mind. You cannot separate these three, yet they are distinct:

They are distinct from Each Other. This statement is taken in a wrong sense by every uneducated as well as every perversely disposed person, as if it predicated a diversity, in such a sense as to imply a separation. - Tertullian

Jesus is God's Word in the flesh, aka, God's Word manifesting in our world so we can perceive it, just as bible_student's Word manifests itself on VigilantCitizenForum so we can perceive it, and that we - who don't know you - may know you.
It's a thoughtful analogy, but it doesn't fit with what Scripture says about Christ.

Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this "Cup" (Holy Grail) may not pass away from me, except I drink it, Thy will be done.

(In the analogy you gave me, bible student would be the direct expression (word) of my will (or thought that I'm having) and could not have another separate will, to mine. What I type, comes up on the screen as bible student's typed out words, and "bible student" does not have a separate free-will, to be able to choose to not say what I type. bible student doesn't have to submit to my will, because bible student doesn't have a separate will, it's just a channel with no free will of its own, that displays what I type. In other words, it's not a separate person.

But, scripture shows this not to be the case when it comes to Christ, Who is shown to have His own Free-Will, which He willingly submits to the Will of Father (his God and our God). Which means, Christ didn't have to do what He did. And that He did what He did, because He chose to do it (he humbled himself and became obedient unto death). -

Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.)

Since we are dealing with Life or death (ours) it is probably best to stick with the simplicity we are given in Scripture, and make it our aim to believe and be obedient to what we have been told:

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

i.e:

God
Christ
man
woman

And to not get side tracked into analogies that distract or divert from the simple Message in it, which says to learn to fear (have a healthy respect for) and love God and keep His Commandments and do His Will, just like Christ (Who is our Example, Lord and Saviour) said and demonstrated.
 





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The question that begs to be asked is this: why is it so important to Roman Catholicism and her protestant daughters (Rev. 17:5), to believe that Jesus is supposedly God?

Of course this is a necessary prerequisite for the pagan trinity to work in the minds of those who have been conned into believing such obvious nonsense, but the main reason is very simple (and overtly satanic):

Because it's a ready-made excuse for not keeping The Law/Commandments of God.

If Satan can con people into believing that Jesus is God, then he can deceive them into believing that only God can keep His own Law, which is not only ridiculous and totally unscriptural, but it's very arrogantly and ignorantly calling God a idiot.

Jesus = the mortal human son of the virgin body of Mary, (Son of Man) descended from the line of David and born in Bethlehem, which is unquestionably in and of this world.

Christ = the immortal Spirit-Being (the Firstborn Son of God), Who is NOT OF THIS WORLD (John 17:5, 18:36).

When Christ incarnated the body of Jesus 2000 years ago (John 1:14), He became the human+Being known as Jesus+Christ.

There is no such thing as a "hypostatic union", which is nothing more than another made-up term to try to explain away something that doesn't exist. That's what humans do; they play with word meanings by redefining words and/or making up new ones in a vain attempt to push their untenable fictions on (deceive) others.

Attempting to make the pagan trinity doctrine work in the minds of those who have been victimized by it requires the following words or terms to be redefined (i.e. given custom, made-up definitions):

God
One
None/Nothing
Three
Omnipotent
Omniscient
Omnipresent
Greater than
Equal to
Invisible
Image
Creature
Firstborn
Son
Father
Commandments
The Word
The High Priest
The Mediator
Heir
Inheritance
Made/Created

Anyone who falls for such a lengthy list of overt deceptions, and the mental gymnastics required to use the redefined nonsensical terms, clearly has no love for the truth. Perhaps that too isn't surprising, as we've been warned for thousands of years that most prefer lies to the truth (Isa. 30:10).

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of the Destroyer;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God (the Holy Father).
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery (Rev. 17:5) of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the [Sword of the] Spirit from his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness [of the enlightening] of his coming:
2:9 [Even the Wicked], whose coming is the work of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, AND Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

1 John 2:1-7

2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin NOT (1 John 3:4). And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the atonement for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep His Commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth NOT His Commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old Commandment which ye had from the Beginning. The old Commandment is the Word which ye have heard from the Beginning.
 





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The question that begs to be asked is this: why is it so important to Roman Catholicism and her protestant daughters (Rev. 17:5), to believe that Jesus is supposedly God?
Jesus Christ is God.

And all who deny this are antichrists according to John.


So why you want to imprecate yourself is beyond me but you may have your reasons... like your salary depends on it.
 





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It's a thoughtful analogy, but it doesn't fit with what Scripture says about Christ.

Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this "Cup" (Holy Grail) may not pass away from me, except I drink it, Thy will be done.

(In the analogy you gave me, bible student would be the direct expression (word) of my will (or thought that I'm having) and could not have another separate will, to mine. What I type, comes up on the screen as bible student's typed out words, and "bible student" does not have a separate free-will, to be able to choose to not say what I type. bible student doesn't have to submit to my will, because bible student doesn't have a separate will, it's just a channel with no free will of its own, that displays what I type. In other words, it's not a separate person.

But, scripture shows this not to be the case when it comes to Christ, Who is shown to have His own Free-Will, which He willingly submits to the Will of Father (his God and our God). Which means, Christ didn't have to do what He did. And that He did what He did, because He chose to do it (he humbled himself and became obedient unto death). -

Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.)

Since we are dealing with Life or death (ours) it is probably best to stick with the simplicity we are given in Scripture, and make it our aim to believe and be obedient to what we have been told:

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

i.e:

God
Christ
man
woman

And to not get side tracked into analogies that distract or divert from the simple Message in it, which says to learn to fear (have a healthy respect for) and love God and keep His Commandments and do His Will, just like Christ (Who is our Example, Lord and Saviour) said and demonstrated.
Your rebuttal is an inch away from agreeing if only you can get past the difference between a thing (a forum account) and a human. Things don't have free will, humans do. Jesus, the man, has a human will seperate from the Father's / Christ's, but the human will must take a backseat because divine providence or God's interference in human history cannot be guided by human will.

Think about it.
 





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Jesus = the mortal human son of the virgin body of Mary, (Son of Man) descended from the line of David and born in Bethlehem, which is unquestionably in and of this world.

Christ = the immortal Spirit-Being (the Firstborn Son of God), Who is NOT OF THIS WORLD (John 17:5, 18:36).

When Christ incarnated the body of Jesus 2000 years ago (John 1:14), He became the human+Being known as Jesus+Christ.

There is no such thing as a "hypostatic union", which is nothing more than another made-up term to try to explain away something that doesn't exist. That's what humans do; they play with word meanings by redefining words and/or making up new ones in a vain attempt to push their untenable fictions on (deceive) others.
You perfectly describe the hypostatic union and then deny there is a hypostatic union. Jesus (human) + Christ (divine) in one body. Are you simply caught up on semantics? Because you clearly get the concept.
 





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You perfectly describe the hypostatic union and then deny there is a hypostatic union. Jesus (human) + Christ (divine) in one body. Are you simply caught up on semantics? Because you clearly get the concept.
God needed a body in order to bleed and die for our sins.
 





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The most important words in all of Scripture are found in John 3, where the Spirit-Being Christ said through the mouth of Jesus the following:-

John 3:3-13
3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born from above, he cannot SEE the Kingdom of God.
3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (human) and then is born (later) from above as his spirit-"Being" (his REAL self which is NOT human), he can NOT enter into the Kingdom of God (Who is a Spirit-"Being").
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is human; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (a spirit-"Being") - (a human+Being).
3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and where it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? (How can I not be human?)
3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a teacher of Israel, and knowest not these things?
3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly (spirit) things?
3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of Man which is from heaven.

So we have it straight from the mouth of Jesus that the Bible was written for Spirit-Beings only, making it impossible for any human to understand it. That's why we MUST be reborn as our true, spiritual self (understanding who and what we really are) to be able to "see" the Kingdom of heaven. If one cannot "see" the Kingdom of heaven, then they have no hope of entering it.

We are spiritual-Beings that have been temporarily "locked" inside these human animal bodies for a very good reason (Gen. 1:26, Rev. 12:7-9). We have been provided with The Word of God throughout the ages; telepathically (through thought/prayer), verbally (from the Prophets), in writing (the Scriptures), and finally, when we stopped listening and reading God's Word, He sent us His Eldest Son, Who incarnated in the body of Jesus (John 1:14, 1 John 2:22), providing us a flesh and blood example in the form of the human+Being known as Jesus+Christ.

Father (the ONE TRUE God) IS God. There is no other. Father created ALL of His Sons, known here on Earth as angels (spirit-Beings, like Father), beginning with His FIRSTBORN Son, known here on Earth as The Messiah/Christ/Mahdi. So Father (YHWH, or in English the "I AM") has a Father-Son relationship with ALL of His Children, as one would logically expect.

The Firstborn Son is the favored position, as it is God Who decides Who will be born First. The Firstborn Son is the one who inherits a double-portion from the Father according to His Law (Deut. 21:17). The Firstborn Son of The King is also known as The Prince, Who is HEIR to the Throne (see Dan. 9:25, Dan. 10:21, Dan. 12:1-4, Rev. 5:1-5, Rev. 12:7-9).

These are very simple concepts and relationships, which do not require anyone to invoke some pagan trinity confusion, or to fabricate any new terms, or redefine existing terms, in a vain attempt to describe. So simple in truth that even a child can understand them, just as one would expect from their loving Father.

It is through obedience to Father, by keeping His Law/Commandments, that He makes known to us these simple relationships, which are themselves TRUE Wisdom. Of course these are foreign concepts to humans, who always complicate and confuse matters they clearly do NOT understand, because it's impossible for them to do so.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles (letters), speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other Scriptures, unto their OWN destruction.

We all have the free-will choice to decide whom we will listen to and obey. If we listen to and obey Father, exactly as Christ teaches, then we are His Children; if we continue to listen to and obey Satan then we are his children.

It's that simple. And those who learn this simple lesson will survive; those who don't, won't.
 





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Your rebuttal is an inch away from agreeing if only you can get past the difference between a thing (a forum account) and a human. Things don't have free will, humans do. Jesus, the man, has a human will seperate from the Father's / Christ's, but the human will must take a backseat because divine providence or God's interference in human history cannot be guided by human will.

Think about it.
I think I may comprehend the position you are taking, if what you wrote above has been correctly understood; (i.e. you believe Christ = the Father)?

King of kings' Bible, John
1:14 And the Word was made flesh (incarnated), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only incarnated of the Father) full of Grace and Truth (Nazir in Hebrew).
1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spoke, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was (in existence) before me (before the world was).

But if Christ = the Father, rather than His Eldest/Firstborn/i.e. First created Son (Angel; the "sons of God" are the angels, according to Genesis and the Book of Job) then do the following Words spoken by Christ still make sense?:

17:4 I have glorified Thee on the Earth: I have finished the work which Thou gavest me to do.
17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

As it does not say, that Christ said, "glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had as Thee before the world was", but rather, it says that Christ said "the glory which I had with Thee before the world was"

So, if it's true that Christ = the Father, then the question could be asked, why did Christ not say here "as Thee" (i.e. as Himself?) before the world was (to make this undoubtedly clear)? But it doesn't and instead says that Christ spoke about the glory he had with the Father, rather than "as" the Father.
 





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Father (the ONE TRUE God) IS God. There is no other. Father created ALL of His Sons, known here on Earth as angels (spirit-Beings, like Father), beginning with His FIRSTBORN Son, known here on Earth as The Messiah/Christ/Mahdi. So Father (YHWH, or in English the "I AM") has a Father-Son relationship with ALL of His Children, as one would logically expect.

But if Christ = the Father, rather than His Eldest/Firstborn/i.e. First created Son (Angel; the "sons of God" are the angels, according to Genesis and the Book of Job) then do the following Words spoken by Christ still make sense?:

You two sockpuppets have nothing better to do than to deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ.

Just like your father whom you are fond of quoting.
 





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You two sockpuppets have nothing better to do than to deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ.
Who has denied Christ's Divinity?

Angels are divine beings (sons of God) and Christ is Divine.

John
10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are gods?
10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the Word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;

But,

THW 3:59 You seem to want to believe Satan, and that you are no better than a smelly animal. You don’t
seem to want to be divine again.

Just like your father whom you are fond of quoting.
You are still thinking evil.

“Honi soit qui mal y pense” - evil be to him who thinks it.
 





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Who has denied Christ's Divinity?

Angels are divine beings (sons of God) and Christ is Divine.

John
10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are gods?
10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the Word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;
Jesus Christ is God the Creator.

Your eternity is entirely in His hands.



3:59 You seem to want to believe Satan, and that you are no better than a smelly animal. You don’t
seem to want to be divine again.


You are still thinking evil.

“Honi soit qui mal y pense” - evil be to him who thinks it.
You quote Satan from the Quran as if he is God the Creator.
 





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Matthew 6:9-13
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: OUR Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be THY name.
6:10 Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
6:12 And forgive us our debts and trespasses (if we truly repent), as we forgive our debtors and those who trespass against us (if they truly repent).
6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For Thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
 





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Jesus Christ is God the Creator.
Hebrews
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the Prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [His] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;

Your eternity is entirely in His hands.
John
5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son (Enoch 58:1; 60:11; 68:39):
5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
You quote Satan from the Quran as if he is God the Creator.
I quote God's Message from the true Koran (correctly translated and interpreted) in the King of kings' Bible (which I happen to be reading from at the moment):

Sura
3:49. And (appoint him) an Apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: and I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I enliven the dead, by God's leave and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
3:50. (I have come to you), to affirm The Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.
3:51. It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord then worship Him. This is The Way that is Straight'."
3:52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part he said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) God." Said the disciples: "We are God's helpers: we believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are "True in Faith".
3:53. Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger; then write us down among those who bear witness."
3:54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and God too planned, and the best of planners is God.
3:55. Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, to The Day of Resurrection: then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

But, you keep choosing to think evil and want to believe that it was Satan who said this:

3:55. Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, to The Day of Resurrection: then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

And this:

3:50. (I have come to you), to affirm The Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.

And this:

3:59. The similitude of Jesus (the human) before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be": and he was.
3:60. The Truth (comes) from God alone; so be not of those who doubt.

etc.

But Satan (the Adversary or OPPOSER) doesn't say that The Truth comes from God alone and to believe God.

So why don't you see if you can overcome your ego and become humble, as Christ says to do, before it (your ego / "self") ends up destroying you (which is what it wants to do, for its master Satan)? We have all been warned repeatedly.

How can you, or anyone expect to be getting anywhere, if you are not acknowledging Father and getting to KNOW Him, as your Father, and as the Wonderful Loving Person that He really is, as Jesus said you MUST do, with emphasis ("THIS is ETERNAL life...)

You can't, if you don't do it (follow and obey Jesus and His Example of how to be).
 





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I think I may comprehend the position you are taking, if what you wrote above has been correctly understood; (i.e. you believe Christ = the Father)?

King of kings' Bible, John
1:14 And the Word was made flesh (incarnated), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only incarnated of the Father) full of Grace and Truth (Nazir in Hebrew).
1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spoke, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was (in existence) before me (before the world was).

But if Christ = the Father, rather than His Eldest/Firstborn/i.e. First created Son (Angel; the "sons of God" are the angels, according to Genesis and the Book of Job) then do the following Words spoken by Christ still make sense?:

17:4 I have glorified Thee on the Earth: I have finished the work which Thou gavest me to do.
17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

As it does not say, that Christ said, "glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had as Thee before the world was", but rather, it says that Christ said "the glory which I had with Thee before the world was"

So, if it's true that Christ = the Father, then the question could be asked, why did Christ not say here "as Thee" (i.e. as Himself?) before the world was (to make this undoubtedly clear)? But it doesn't and instead says that Christ spoke about the glory he had with the Father, rather than "as" the Father.
Does John 1:1 not include the same? The Word was with God, and the Word was God. Ergo Christ being with God doesn't mean He is not God.