Finding the good in Agnosticism - an honest look at faith and doubt

Red Sky at Morning

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God is real, by god I mean the source of the creation we are all part of.
All he wanted to express, he did so in the creation itself. Written words are just the interpretation of the creation by one human. Attributing these texts to god himself is an insult to god.
Your assertion indicates you feel you have some insight into the nature of God that enables you to make a categorical statement. On what basis do you come to the conclusions that God is described as “he” or might feel offended by an insult?
 






Identify

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Your assertion indicates you feel you have some insight into the nature of God that enables you to make a categorical statement. On what basis do you come to the conclusions that God is described as “he” or might feel offended by an insult?
As the creator he can only be above the creation (not on top of but 'greater than'). So gender does not apply, I said 'he' because i needed to refer to god using grammar.

I agree 'an insult to God' was not the best choice of words, nevertheless my point remains valid. God did not comme to his own creation to write stories about himself. That is literally like writing a book in which you write about yourself writing the said book. It makes no sense...
I am not saying the creation should make sense but this just seems ridiculous to me.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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As the creator he can only be above the creation (not on top of but 'greater than'). So gender does not apply, I said 'he' because i needed to refer to god using grammar.

I agree 'an insult to God' was not the best choice of words, nevertheless my point remains valid. God did not comme to his own creation to write stories about himself. That is literally like writing a book in which you write about yourself writing the said book. It makes no sense...
I am not saying the creation should make sense but this just seems ridiculous to me.
Let me try a thought experiment on you that occurred to me a while back...

I was wondering about artificial intelligence and where it all might head. The idea took me down an unexpected turn you might find interesting. I imagined a science fiction scenario where quite unexpectedly in a future version of Halo on the X-Box 5, a computer generated character suddenly became self aware. This blue skinned computer generated alien suddenly found it was able to explore it's world, gather resources needful for its survival, avoid conflict and even enjoy the views. In its own inexplicable way it has the idea 'I think, therefore I am!'

E9326510-B741-4C82-AB1D-3834114F8211.jpeg

But where is our blue soldier? Simply composed of finely engineered machine code stored on a powerful machine, only re-activated when the console is switched on. This digital life is the only one our brave new artificial form knows. Soon he starts to ask questions of his environment. He finds his world is finite, obeys some predictable laws and in his own way he sets about becoming a scientist. He measures, documents and sets about understanding everything he can within his reach.

One figure he can't properly understand in the green human figure who sometimes appears, guns blazing...

9A87D407-C5AC-48E7-A411-0DC9034EBD77.jpeg

Occasionally he seems like an unstoppable foe, other times an easy target. His behaviour is quite erratic and different to everything else in his world. The way he fights follows none of the complex algorithms of the blue alien inhabitants. It is all quite inexplicable!

I became a Christian at an early age, so for me it felt very natural to see a world where God 'did things'. It was only years later that I came across atheists and humanists. It was later still that I was able to empathise with their view of the world in a way that I could articulate how those people would hold a perspective of a bitter struggle between science and religion. In a world of Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and even Scoobie-Doo, there is never any room for truth beyond the things we can predictably measure or fully understand.

In the same way our blue alien could conclude that despite the behaviour of that one strange human in his world, the idea of the 'beyond' was best impossibly distant and at worse, meaningless. It can't be touched, reached or even imagined. In short, our newly emerged intelligence could quickly become in his own small way, a scientific materialist. If he did, he would be wrong!

Pushing the example a little further, perhaps using a chat function, the blue alien and the human could lay down their weapons and get to know one another. Our new AI life could find out about a world beyond his, a bedroom, snacks, parents. Some of this would be beyond our blue friends comprehension but that alone would not mean it was untrue, just that it sat outside the frame of its experience.

If you don't know Jesus, but suspect there might be something different about Him, you could do the brave thing and ask him to make himself known to you. I know in writing this that the whole idea may push lots of buttons. Let me challenge you with this - if God is real He is well able to reach into your world and communicate with you.

Thomas, after Jesus had risen from the dead was unconvinced by reports from others. A natural realist, he famously said that "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe." People call him doubting Thomas but from another perspective he was also just being honest. He let it be known what kind of evidence he would need to in order to have faith.

Jesus met him where he was at and provided him with more than enough to convince him. In the same way, even if you full of skepticism and disappointment with religious systems, if you come to Jesus himself, full of doubts and questions, he can meet you where you're at.

The first step is just to come as you are. He's waiting for you to start the conversation.
 






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billy t

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Paul wouldn't agree with you mate and neither would I..:)
Paul said - "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

Jesus is easy enough to understand-
"And the common people heard Jesus gladly" (Mark 12:37)

This is a typical small slimline gospel which costs only a few pence from bookshops, or free from most christian groups; it can be read in a day or two and if people can't log onto Jesus after reading it, all the "studying" of the whole bible won't help them conect with him-



So its a satanic deception for anybody to suggest that Jesus can only be understood by long hard study of the entire bible.
As for the Koran, it claims Jesus is not the Son of God, therefore its not to be taken seriously...:)

The so called gospel of John was anonymous. The name "John" was given to it later on.

Its basically like someone posts on here with the username "purple gorilla" then later dies. We then say the posts were written by "Greg". We have no idea who truly typed up the posts we just call him Greg because we want to attribute the posts to a specific person and we don't really know their name so why not just make one up?

Where in this gospel does the gospel author mention that he is John?


The gospel was not written by the disciple John. The anonymous author is not an eye witness.

Can you please enlighten us Tidal as to who this John character is? I am genuinely curious about him. What does he look like? How old was he at the time of writing the account? Did he have any close companions? If so, who were they? I have read his gospel account but did not find any information about the author. Very mysterious indeed.
 






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billy t

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Tidal quotes Paul as saying, "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3) yet this is exactly what Paul did by altering the teachings of Jesus peace be upon him. Paul was skilled in deception and double-speak.

2 Corinthians 12:16 reads, "But be that as it may, I did not burden you. Nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you by cunning!". The greek word 'dolos' is used here which describes the bait used to catch a fish. In other words, just as a fisherman uses bait to catch fish Paul uses bait to catch his followers!

The teachings of Jesus were simple and easy to understand yet Paul came with teachings that were difficult to understand. Jesus brought one religion and Paul brought another.

Paul was later accused in 2nd Peter of having teachings that were difficult to understand.

So, the teachings of Jesus were simple yet the teachings of Paul are difficult to understand. This begs the question. Was Paul preaching the same teachings?
 






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A Freeman

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The early church, in distancing itself from its Hebrew context lost the knowledge that there are various sabbaths talked about in the Bible. The feasts and high holy days had additional rest days built in, which is the reason I posted up that many believe in a Wednesday crucifixion:-


^ Link reposted

Of course, over time tradition can take people away from reading the Bible itself and many odd ideas can sneak in. I think it was the gap between tradition and the Bible that led to the reformation.
Thank-you. The article at the link you posted has a few minor errors, but at least they acknowledge the crucifixion had to occur on a Wednesday, and the resurrection on the weekly Sabbath day.

The "Good" Friday crucifixion and Easter/Ishtar Sunday resurrection -- which the overwhelming majority (>90%) of "Christianity" believes, is an obvious LIE, as the article points out, because Friday night and Saturday night cannot possibly represent 3 days and 3 nights.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/3-days-and-3-nights.7329/

This is not some minor issue; what you're calling "the early church" is actually Roman Catholicism, which itself is the continuation of the Roman empire. The same Roman empire that the J"ews" manipulated into crucifying Jesus. If the "early church" couldn't get something as simple as counting 3 days and 3 nights correct, about something as important as the centerpiece of Christianity -- the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus -- how could anything they say or teach be trusted?

Is that not proof enough of how spiritually blind the overwhelming majority of Christianity really is, and how easy it is for an organized religion to get people to believe in and promote such obvious LIES? According to Christ everyone who believes in and promotes lies will burn for it, so this should be taken very, very seriously.
 






Alanantic

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Yes all false Gods die. Correct.

Allah doesn't die.
Technically, but he does change form.

"When goodness grows weak,
When evil increases,
I make myself a body.
In every age I come back
To deliver the holy,
To destroy the sin of the sinner,
To establish righteousness."

Krishna, Bhagavad Gita
 






Axl888

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@A Freeman

So just to be clear, you are of the view that both the Gospels and the Qur'an both assert that Jesus died on the Cross, lay in a tomb and then was raised from the dead?

I know the Bible teaches that, and as you have criticised my Islamic scholarship, I would defer to other Muslims on the forum to confirm the teachings of the Qur'an, maybe @Daze might offer a perspective?

btw:-

Yup, the Koran totally contradicts the Bible/Gospel in regard to Jesus Christ's death and resurrection (essential doctrine of Christianity), harmonizing the Koran with the Bible/Gospel is just totally garbage and satanic...It is just obvious that somebody here is stubbornly promoting the future one world religion which is of course the work of the Anti-christ.
 






Tidal

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Can you please enlighten us Tidal as to who this John character is? I am genuinely curious about him. What does he look like? How old was he at the time of writing the account? Did he have any close companions? If so, who were they? I have read his gospel account but did not find any information about the author.

Here ya go mate..:)-

John the disciple, (John 13:23) son of Zebedee, the brother of James the "greater" (Matthew 4:21; 10:2; Mark 1:19; 3:17; 10:35) wrote his gospel c.95AD, the last to be written before Revelation.
From a wealthy family (Mark 1:20; Luke 5:3; John 19:27), his mother was probably Salome (Matthew 27:56; Mark 15:40).
He was one of the closest disciples to Jesus among the twelve (Matthew 17:1; 26:37; Mark 5:37; 13:3).
He was zealous (Matthew 20:20-24; Mark 3:17; 10:35-41; Luke 9:49, 54).
He became one of the leaders of the Jerusalem Church (Acts 15:6; Galatians 2:9) and of the seven churches in Asia (Revelation 1:11).
He was banished to the island of Patmos where he wrote Revelation.
 






Tidal

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...religious people lose all credibility. They always make assumptions about god based on nothing as it is impossible to prove any of their claims.

Jesus is not "religion", he's Jesus..:)
Here we all are, prisoners on this spinning ball of mud sailing through space without knowing how we got here or where we're going, then Jesus arrived and said to just follow him and he'll get us off this rock-
"God has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners...to release the oppressed" (Luke 4:18 )
so in that respect he's like this Royce character in Predators-

 






Tidal

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Tidal quotes Paul as saying, "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3) yet this is exactly what Paul did by altering the teachings of Jesus peace be upon him. Paul was skilled in deception and double-speak.
So, the teachings of Jesus were simple yet the teachings of Paul are difficult to understand. This begs the question. Was Paul preaching the same teachings?

Which bits of Paul are hard to understand?
Fact is he was singing from the same song sheet as Jesus, or else the early christians would have soon told him to get on his bike..:)
His street cred and integrity is pretty good, for example when people began trying to worship him, he said-
"Follow Jesus, not me, because I wasn't crucified for you" (1 Cor 1:12/13)

Incidentally Paul's family ran a tentmaking business (Acts 18:3) and I wonder if the 'Occupy London' activists knew it when they pitched their tents outside the great London cathedral which bears his name?..:)



 






Identify

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Let me try a thought experiment on you that occurred to me a while back...

I was wondering about artificial intelligence and where it all might head. The idea took me down an unexpected turn you might find interesting. I imagined a science fiction scenario where quite unexpectedly in a future version of Halo on the X-Box 5, a computer generated character suddenly became self aware. This blue skinned computer generated alien suddenly found it was able to explore it's world, gather resources needful for its survival, avoid conflict and even enjoy the views. In its own inexplicable way it has the idea 'I think, therefore I am!'

View attachment 57419

But where is our blue soldier? Simply composed of finely engineered machine code stored on a powerful machine, only re-activated when the console is switched on. This digital life is the only one our brave new artificial form knows. Soon he starts to ask questions of his environment. He finds his world is finite, obeys some predictable laws and in his own way he sets about becoming a scientist. He measures, documents and sets about understanding everything he can within his reach.

One figure he can't properly understand in the green human figure who sometimes appears, guns blazing...

View attachment 57420

Occasionally he seems like an unstoppable foe, other times an easy target. His behaviour is quite erratic and different to everything else in his world. The way he fights follows none of the complex algorithms of the blue alien inhabitants. It is all quite inexplicable!

I became a Christian at an early age, so for me it felt very natural to see a world where God 'did things'. It was only years later that I came across atheists and humanists. It was later still that I was able to empathise with their view of the world in a way that I could articulate how those people would hold a perspective of a bitter struggle between science and religion. In a world of Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and even Scoobie-Doo, there is never any room for truth beyond the things we can predictably measure or fully understand.

In the same way our blue alien could conclude that despite the behaviour of that one strange human in his world, the idea of the 'beyond' was best impossibly distant and at worse, meaningless. It can't be touched, reached or even imagined. In short, our newly emerged intelligence could quickly become in his own small way, a scientific materialist. If he did, he would be wrong!

Pushing the example a little further, perhaps using a chat function, the blue alien and the human could lay down their weapons and get to know one another. Our new AI life could find out about a world beyond his, a bedroom, snacks, parents. Some of this would be beyond our blue friends comprehension but that alone would not mean it was untrue, just that it sat outside the frame of its experience.

If you don't know Jesus, but suspect there might be something different about Him, you could do the brave thing and ask him to make himself known to you. I know in writing this that the whole idea may push lots of buttons. Let me challenge you with this - if God is real He is well able to reach into your world and communicate with you.

Thomas, after Jesus had risen from the dead was unconvinced by reports from others. A natural realist, he famously said that "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe." People call him doubting Thomas but from another perspective he was also just being honest. He let it be known what kind of evidence he would need to in order to have faith.

Jesus met him where he was at and provided him with more than enough to convince him. In the same way, even if you full of skepticism and disappointment with religious systems, if you come to Jesus himself, full of doubts and questions, he can meet you where you're at.

The first step is just to come as you are. He's waiting for you to start the conversation.
Your metaphore proves my point. The game character can know nothing about the creators of his world (humans) unless he literally comes out of the game and becomes human. He is unable to really understand any concept outside of the ones you program into the game, and on top of that is confined to the technical limits (procesdor speed, ram memory,...) of the xbox.
Same goes for us (game characters) and god the creator of our world that confined us to the earth.

Jesus is at best a historical figure. If you grow up in an isolated forest and die without being in contact to Christians will you go to hell? Will your life be wasted because you did not 'give it to jesus'?
Does the character in your game need a jesus character to come in to his world to realize he is in god's creation?
Jesus is indoctrination, giving you a false sense of confort people hang on to because of the terror they experience. It is too much for religious people to just accept they can not know the whole truth for sure. Below is a good example:
Jesus is not "religion", he's Jesus..:)
Here we all are, prisoners on this spinning ball of mud sailing through space without knowing how we got here or where we're going, then Jesus arrived and said to just follow him and he'll get us off this rock-
This is the same with other religions. You claim to follow the true god because this gives your life purpose. But how can you prove this without referring to writings from another humans being? Without telling me to give your religion a try and to just surrender to the blind belief in your god?
 






A Freeman

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Yup, the Koran totally contradicts the Bible/Gospel in regard to Jesus Christ's death and resurrection (essential doctrine of Christianity), harmonizing the Koran with the Bible/Gospel is just totally garbage and satanic...It is just obvious that somebody here is stubbornly promoting the future one world religion which is of course the work of the Anti-christ.
The Koran (Quran) does NOT contradict the Bible/Gospel with regard to the death of Jesus IF properly (spiritually) understood, anymore than the letters of Paul contradict the true teachings of Christ, IF properly understood.

The problem is, and always has been, that people look at the Scriptures and see only the physical, because they are spiritually asleep/blind.

The most important passage in all of Scripture is found in the Gospel of Jesus according to John, chapter 3:

John 3:3-7
3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born from above, he cannot SEE The Kingdom of God.
3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (human) and then is born (later) from above as his spirit-"Being" (his REAL self which is NOT human), he can NOT enter into The Kingdom of God (Who is a Spirit-"Being").
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is human; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (a spirit-"Being") - (a human+Being).
3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Unless one is born again, as their true SPIRITUAL self, recognizing that they are an immortal spirit-Being (Soul) incarnated inside of the mortal human animal body they see in the mirror (which dies at the end of its lifetime), they cannot "see" the Kingdom of God, much less enter it.

Jesus, the mortal human son of Mary was crucified on the cross, died and was buried for 3 days and 3 nights, before God resurrected/raised Jesus.

The IMMORTAL Messiah/Christ, Who is the Firstborn Son of God, did NOT die on the cross, nor can any human ever kill any spirit-Being (Soul). Only God can do that, and He has reserved doing that until the Last Day, when everyone in this world is due to be judged.

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell-fire.

On the Last Day, approximately 99.998% of the world's population (all but the 144,000 whom God has "sealed") will be cast into "the Lake of Fire", exactly as it warns throughout the Bible and the Koran (Quran). This is the Second Death (the death of the spirit-Being/Soul), which awaits every single "Christian", every single "Muslim", every single "Jew", "Buddhist", "Hindu", etc. (every single adherent to any of Satan's organized religions), and every single atheist, and every single agnostic on Earth.

There are NO organized religions (ALL of which were created by Satan to keep us away from God -- divide and conquer is a satanic strategy) in the Kingdom of God. Only Truth.


The Truth is this entire world is anti-Christ, and always has been.

Anyone who is spiritually blinded by their own arrogance/ignorance into believing that God wanted to divide us up into different organized religions, so we can argue and attempt to convert one another into our superstitious belief system of choice, is so far into Satan's grip there is no hope.

The one world religion that Satan is attempting to install is openly Luciferian and "self"-serving, with its made-up set of rules that attempt to replace God's Law. And we have all helped Satan build this system here on Earth, by allowing the creation of millions of man-made rules, in direct violation of God's Law.

Anyone who has a genuine interest helping to build God's Kingdom here on Earth MUST start keeping and enforcing God's Law ONLY, which is the Achilles' heel of Satan's new world order and one world religion. That is exactly what ALL of the prophets taught, what Jesus taught, what the disciples and apostles taught, what Paul taught, and what Mohammad taught. The message they brought was NOT their own; it was The Word of God.

From The Law:

Deuteronomy 30:15-20
30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the "I AM" thy God, to walk in His Ways, and to keep His Commandments and His Statutes and His Judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the "I AM" thy God shall bless thee in the land where thou goest to possess it.
30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, where thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
30:20 That thou mayest love the "I AM" thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey His voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto Him: for He [is] thy Life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the "I AM" sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob/Israel, to give them.
 






A Freeman

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Jesus is at best a historical figure.
Jesus is the most well-documented figure in all of human history. We literally changed the way we keep time on this planet, which couldn't be a clearer sign from above that everyone should TAKE NOTICE of Him, and hear Him (Mark 9:7).

B.C. = Before Christ (before His Coming in the body of Jesus)
A.D. = in the year of our Lord (Christ)

Any genuine truth seeker will invariably be led to study and emulate the life of Jesus, and in doing so learn about The Law that God gave us, as Jesus was The Law/Word of God made flesh (incarnated).

If you grow up in an isolated forest and die without being in contact to Christians will you go to hell?
First, if it is properly understood that we are spiritual-Beings who are only temporarily incarnated inside of these human animal bodies, then it should be self-evident that each of us has had MANY opportunities over many human lifetimes to seek truth and make unselfish decisions that advance us spiritually toward the goal: to be like Christ.

Secondly, THIS IS HELL (aka planet Earth) and we've been here for thousands of Earth years. How obvious does it need to be made for people to see?

We live in a place where everyone lies, cheats and steals from one another, where women are raped, children are molested, and where we've legalized theft in the form of taxes and murder in the form of war. The Fire is reserved for the Last Day, when each of us will be judged on the merits of what good we've done during all of our human lifetimes.

Nobody needs to become a "Christian"; in fact, doing so is a death sentence.

What everyone NEEDS to do is to become like Christ, by keeping The Law (loving one's neighbor as much or more than one's self) and learning to become less selfish and evil, until we are enough like Christ was in the body of Jesus to be allowed to go home, to heaven.

God, Who is Loving, Just, Fair, Merciful and Gracious in ALL matters, has given us 6000 years and many human lifetimes and experiences to teach and test us. This should be obvious from even a cursory inspection of the wide variety of human lives experienced here on this planet of widely varying lengths. Reincarnation is an irrefutable fact.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/reincarnation-is-an-irrefutable-fact.6934/

What @Red Sky at Morning seems to be missing is that the virtual reality "game" setting we are all in and playing is the game of human life here on Earth, and that our true REALITY is with our Creator and the eternal, spiritual life He has given us, along with the free-will to choose between good and evil, which is what this "game" is really all about.

Jesus is indoctrination, giving you a false sense of confort people hang on to because of the terror they experience. It is too much for religious people to just accept they can not know the whole truth for sure. Below is a good example:

This is the same with other religions. You claim to follow the true god because this gives your life purpose. But how can you prove this without referring to writings from another humans being? Without telling me to give your religion a try and to just surrender to the blind belief in your god?
Don't confuse Satan's organized religions with the Bible or the life of Jesus. Satan's organized religions, including "Christianity", lure people away from following Christ's True Teachings and the Life Example of Jesus, to their own made-up tradtions, pagan rites and rituals. The same is true of every other organized religion, which desperately try to promote their own superstitions as somehow superior to those of the other organized religions, with which they compete for market-share.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Your metaphore proves my point. The game character can know nothing about the creators of his world (humans) unless he literally comes out of the game and becomes human. He is unable to really understand any concept outside of the ones you program into the game, and on top of that is confined to the technical limits (procesdor speed, ram memory,...) of the xbox.
Same goes for us (game characters) and god the creator of our world that confined us to the earth.
Don’t give up so easily on the parallel @Identify

Metaphor is like impressionist painting - when you stand back from it, it can convey s
reality...

598BD239-7E23-4D91-83AB-CFECCCC7719B.jpeg

When you get too close, it breaks down...

60CEC6E4-6547-4C52-A4DD-7B1843632A74.jpeg

Think of Master Chief in the game - the fact that he is fully outside the game and fully in it should resonate with someone we have discussed?
 






Journeyman

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Yes, I seem to remember posting that same link in another thread a while ago. Lisa’s site is a great resource, but it is also a bit too deep for most people. It is best to gain some personal awareness first or you’ll have a hard time grasping most of the info. Self-discovery through dreamwork and meditation will reveal more than any second-hand method, and is usually prerequisite for understanding the universe on a deeper level.

Energy harvesting by negative parasitic entities is a complicated subject. It’s too much to go into in this topic. It involves etheric energy technology that exists just out-of-phase with our reality (in other words it’s invisible) If you poke around Lisa’s ascension glossary you will find some relevant info. Keep in mind that a LOT has changed for the better recently. Many of the systems that were in place for millennia have been dismantled and will not be allowed to influence our planet any longer.

None of that matters too much, though. More importantly, here are the very basics that you need to understand: Kindness is the default state, yet from the very beginning we are surrounded by people passing judgment on each other, which becomes increasingly normalized. Let’s be honest with ourselves. If all of humanity suddenly lost interest in gossip and selfish exclusion of others, would any religion survive?

Kindness literally connects us to a dimensional frequency which emits an energetic field of higher intelligence. It’s nothing “magic”, it’s simply the mechanics of energy. This is the infinite intelligence that is the source of all that exists.

First of all, “pledging your allegiance” to something, to anything, is a terrible idea. This is the free will choice to surrender the command of your personal energy to some outside entity. This concept is an extension of the negative ego, and encourages us to remove ourselves from kindness by projecting our own shame upon those who don’t pledge their allegiance in the same manner. The idea is to make passing judgment on others more unconscious and automatic (robotic). They don’t want us putting too much thought into it, because it leads to questioning and reassessment.

The goal of energy harvesting with regards to religion and prayer is to disconnect the idea of prayer from the energies of kindness, peacefulness, gratitude, compassion, etc as much as possible. When we are within these energies and expressing them more purely, that is exactly what is directed toward others during prayer. It’s entirely mechanical, exactly like magnetism but more subtle and less physical if that makes sense to you.
Also important to mention is the fact that “wishing” for something is actually the same as holding on more tightly to the anxiety and uncertainty that it will ever be fulfilled. This is a free will choice that will ensure that the fulfillment of your wish is always kept at arm’s length. It’s essentially a lack of gratitude and trust in outcome. If this is what you choose, then so it will be. It’s really that simple. Look around and ask: do most people tend to pray when they are feeling contentment and total peace, or are we trained to pray when we are stressed or anxious about something? The answer is obvious I hope.
Firstly, thank you for a very interesting response. I think the best way for me to answer is to go back to the beginning of this thread. I spent many years as an agnostic atheist, not claiming to know for certain, but tending towards a materialistic explanation of reality which I believed was increasingly the picture that science was showing us. As more knowledge was revealed, the gap for God was made ever smaller and so the process would continue.

I never made the leap to pure atheism and retained that small doubt so I think this comment from yourself is true:

Both theists and atheists are technically agnostic from my perspective (to an extent). If theists did not hold onto some small bit of doubt inside, they would not bother to proclaim belief at all, just as atheists would not bother to proclaim their disbelief if they did not have some small part of themselves asking “what if?”
My journey from this position came about as I perceived more of the nature of TPTB and not just the corruption within the system, but the occult nature of it. From there I began to look at 'the science' afresh and discern that some of those most pivotal in pushing a certain direction of travel held very different views in private to the stance they took in public. That in turn has led me to look again at religion, philosophy, history etc. On the basis that so much was deception and that powerful people clearly believed in occult evil forces I sought the good. I was raised in a Christian country and having left religion at adolescence that was the logical place to start. At a friend's suggestion I read the gospel of John, which is very beautiful and I started to pray some time ago, but knowing the various arguments over the corruption or mistranslation of Biblical texts, triune / single nature of God / status of Jesus etc. many of which are often debated on this site. Without knowledge of my own I was concerned that my prayers didn't go to the wrong destination. I mainly prayed to the creator for discernment and help to try and find wisdom and my own belief remains that it's more important that we're seeking to do good and are kind to each other than that we're right on dogma or doctrinal points. I simply don't believe in a creator that punishes people who are trying to do the best they can in a world run by psychopaths and self serving occultists.

I think that concern about having prayer diverted was the reason why I was so interested in what you'd said earlier about energy harvesting, that and my becoming ever more aware of physical structures and encoded names within the towns I visited that suggested an ongoing campaign at harvesting energy. Indeed, I found Lisa's energetic synthesis site when looking for an explanation for obelisk harvesting, she was one of the few who seemed to know what they were talking about and provided a detailed explanation. I agree the content there is quite mind blowing but in comparison to where I've come from in the past couple of years it's par for the course!

Thanks again for taking the time to answer and apologies to @Red Sky at Morning for some rather tangential replies to their initial post. I've tried to address the subject matter at least in this last post...
 






Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
11,111
@Journeyman

An English teacher once came home to his teenage son. Wanting to elicit some after school learning, he asked him to define Ignorance and apathy.

The bored teen looked up briefly from his phone and said “I don’t know - and I don’t care”

I am always more interested by people who ask questions and don’t always feel they have all the answers.

I liked a book I read a long time ago, and you reminded me of a character in it!

BAEBDE8C-4BD0-43EA-BB25-5B925A4A64A7.jpeg

outline and summary of “A Pilgrims Regress

The following is taken from C. S. Lewis: A Companion & Guide by Walter Hooper:

The central character is a kind of 'Everyman' called John who is born on the western side of the Eastern Mountains in Puritania. He grows up in fear of an unseen Landlord who is portrayed as a moral despot. At the same time, the young man has visions of an Island, which is both the cause and the object of his intense longing, or 'Joy'.

He makes his first mistake in supposing the Island to be a disguise for Lust. When this deception is unmasked he sets off again to find the Island. Along the way he meets people who are allegorical personifications of ideas and schools of thought Lewis himself had encountered over the years.

They include such characters and experiences as Mr Enlightenment (Nineteenth-century Rationalism), the 'Modern' literary movement, and Freudianism.Eventually John is captured by the Spirit of the Age. Those passages dealing with the Pilgrim's imprisonment (III:6-9) are some of the most astute in the book, and most likely to appeal to the modern reader.

The Spirit of the Age is portrayed as a Giant whose eyes make everything he looks at transparent. Thus his glance at John makes it possible for the young man to see his own insides (lungs, intestines, etc.). The Giant attempts to convince him that this is all that a man is. John is rescued by Reason, who leads him as far as the Grand Canyon, on the other side of which is the continuation of the Main Road.

While wondering how to cross, John meets Mother Kirk (the Church). She gives him an allegorical account of the Sin of Adam (the Grand Canyon), explaining that she is the only one who could carry him across the canyon safely. John decides instead to go a long way around. Because Catholics speak of the Catholic church as 'Mother Church', many assumed that Lewis was using the expression to mean the Catholic Church. But by 'Mother Kirk' Lewis really meant 'Traditional Christianity'.Turning North he meets 'cerebral' men such as Mr Sensible (cultured Worldliness), Mr Neo-Angular and Mr Humanist. These men talk, Lewis explains in the running headlines to the book, as if 'they had "seen through" things they have not even seen' (VI: 3).

Finding he cannot get to the Main Road this way, John turns South. There he meets, amongst others, Mr Broad who represents 'a modernizing religion which is friends with the World and goes on no pilgrimage'. Finally John reaches the house of Wisdom, and from him he learns the inadequacy of many of the philosophies Lewis had found attractive at one time: Idealist Philosophy, Materialism, and Hegelianism.

Even if the reader never encounters these as living philosophies, he will get some idea of their effect on Lewis and his generation.Upon leaving Wisdom's house, John is helped at one point by a 'Man' (Christ), and from this he learns that he must accept Grace or die. Then, having accepted Grace, John feels bound to acknowledge God's existence.

There follows a chapter entitled 'Caught' in which Lewis repeats almost word for word what he gave in the 'Early Prose Joy' as his main reason for not wanting to be a Christian. More than anything, he wanted to call his soul his own. John realizes that in acknowledging the Lord he is 'never to be alone; never the master of his own soul, to have no privacy, no corner whereof you could say to the whole universe: This is my own, here I can do as I please.'Continuing his journey, John stops for a while with History. In the chapter called 'History's Words' we find some of the most valuable ideas in the book. John is told that although not all men have the 'picture' of an Island, such as he has had, to lead them to the Landlord (God), they are nevertheless given 'pictures' which serve the same purpose. 'The best thing of all is to find Mother Kirk at the very beginning,' says History.

He then explains that when Pagans don't have the benefit of the Church, the Landlord 'sends them pictures and stirs up sweet desire and so leads them back to Mother Kirk.'In the chapter entitled 'Archetype and Ectype' John asks Wisdom about the thing that had quite terrified Lewis when he realized he would have to obey God. 'I am afraid,' says John, 'that the things the Landlord really intends for me may be utterly unlike the things he has taught me to desire.' 'They will be very unlike the things you imagine,' replies Wisdom. 'But you already know that the objects which your desire imagines are always inadequate to that desire. Until you have it you will not know what you wanted.'John struggles to withdraw, but Reason will not let him, and he returns to Mother Kirk.

In the chapter called 'Securus Te Projice' ('Throw yourself away without care') she tells him to dive down to the bottom of a pool of water and come up on the other side. When he replies that he has never learned to dive, Mother Kirk says, 'The art of diving is not to do anything new but simply to cease doing something. you have only to let yourself go.'John at last finds the Island of his dreams, and discovers that it is the other side of the Eastern mountains he had known all his life, the home of God.

In the final part of the work, called 'The Regress', John is shown, as Lewis tells us in the running headlines, 'the real shape of the world we live in' and 'How we walk on a knife-edge between Heaven and hell.' The 'regress' consists mainly in un-learning many of the things John had picked up over the years, and in this section Lewis attempts to answer many of the questions which had plagued him, such as the purpose of Hell. The last part of the book also contains most of the earliest, and best, of Lewis's religious poems.
 






Last edited:

Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,351
Jesus is not "religion", he's Jesus..:)
Here we all are, prisoners on this spinning ball of mud sailing through space without knowing how we got here or where we're going, then Jesus arrived and said to just follow him and he'll get us off this rock-
"God has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners...to release the oppressed" (Luke 4:18 )
This is the same with other religions. You claim to follow the true god because this gives your life purpose. But how can you prove this without referring to writings from another humans being? Without telling me to give your religion a try and to just surrender to the blind belief in your god?

Think "street cred" mate, and Jesus's is off the scale, plus of course the founders of other religions are all corpses in boxes somewhere but Jesus is not, spot the difference?..:)

For a start his arrival was foretold multiple times in the Old T-
Jesus said:- "All things about me in the law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms, must be fulfilled.....The scriptures testify about me..Moses wrote about me" (Luke 24:44,John 5:46)

And he made clear he was a go-between between God and humans-
"I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)

Scientists estimate there are thousands of intelligent alien civilisations in the universe-




So it's quite possible Jesus is from one of them-
Jesus said- "I am not of this world ....though you do not believe me, believe the miracles.....i'll tell you things hidden since the creation of the world" (John 8:23, John 10:38, Matt 13:35)
Hey Spock will you listen to him?

"Affirmative, it would be illogical not to hear what an alien visitor has got to say, I'm all ears"..
 






Awoken2

Superstar
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
5,034
@Journeyman

An English teacher once came home to his teenage son. Wanting to elicit some after school learning, he asked him to define Ignorance and apathy.

The bored teen looked up briefly from his phone and said “I don’t know - and I don’t care”

I am always more interested by people who ask questions and don’t always feel they have all the answers.

I liked a book I read a long time ago, and you reminded me of a character in it!

View attachment 57458

outline and summary of “A Pilgrims Regress

The following is taken from C. S. Lewis: A Companion & Guide by Walter Hooper:

The central character is a kind of 'Everyman' called John who is born on the western side of the Eastern Mountains in Puritania. He grows up in fear of an unseen Landlord who is portrayed as a moral despot. At the same time, the young man has visions of an Island, which is both the cause and the object of his intense longing, or 'Joy'.

He makes his first mistake in supposing the Island to be a disguise for Lust. When this deception is unmasked he sets off again to find the Island. Along the way he meets people who are allegorical personifications of ideas and schools of thought Lewis himself had encountered over the years.

They include such characters and experiences as Mr Enlightenment (Nineteenth-century Rationalism), the 'Modern' literary movement, and Freudianism.Eventually John is captured by the Spirit of the Age. Those passages dealing with the Pilgrim's imprisonment (III:6-9) are some of the most astute in the book, and most likely to appeal to the modern reader.

The Spirit of the Age is portrayed as a Giant whose eyes make everything he looks at transparent. Thus his glance at John makes it possible for the young man to see his own insides (lungs, intestines, etc.). The Giant attempts to convince him that this is all that a man is. John is rescued by Reason, who leads him as far as the Grand Canyon, on the other side of which is the continuation of the Main Road.

While wondering how to cross, John meets Mother Kirk (the Church). She gives him an allegorical account of the Sin of Adam (the Grand Canyon), explaining that she is the only one who could carry him across the canyon safely. John decides instead to go a long way around. Because Catholics speak of the Catholic church as 'Mother Church', many assumed that Lewis was using the expression to mean the Catholic Church. But by 'Mother Kirk' Lewis really meant 'Traditional Christianity'.Turning North he meets 'cerebral' men such as Mr Sensible (cultured Worldliness), Mr Neo-Angular and Mr Humanist. These men talk, Lewis explains in the running headlines to the book, as if 'they had "seen through" things they have not even seen' (VI: 3).

Finding he cannot get to the Main Road this way, John turns South. There he meets, amongst others, Mr Broad who represents 'a modernizing religion which is friends with the World and goes on no pilgrimage'. Finally John reaches the house of Wisdom, and from him he learns the inadequacy of many of the philosophies Lewis had found attractive at one time: Idealist Philosophy, Materialism, and Hegelianism.

Even if the reader never encounters these as living philosophies, he will get some idea of their effect on Lewis and his generation.Upon leaving Wisdom's house, John is helped at one point by a 'Man' (Christ), and from this he learns that he must accept Grace or die. Then, having accepted Grace, John feels bound to acknowledge God's existence.

There follows a chapter entitled 'Caught' in which Lewis repeats almost word for word what he gave in the 'Early Prose Joy' as his main reason for not wanting to be a Christian. More than anything, he wanted to call his soul his own. John realizes that in acknowledging the Lord he is 'never to be alone; never the master of his own soul, to have no privacy, no corner whereof you could say to the whole universe: This is my own, here I can do as I please.'Continuing his journey, John stops for a while with History. In the chapter called 'History's Words' we find some of the most valuable ideas in the book. John is told that although not all men have the 'picture' of an Island, such as he has had, to lead them to the Landlord (God), they are nevertheless given 'pictures' which serve the same purpose. 'The best thing of all is to find Mother Kirk at the very beginning,' says History.

He then explains that when Pagans don't have the benefit of the Church, the Landlord 'sends them pictures and stirs up sweet desire and so leads them back to Mother Kirk.'In the chapter entitled 'Archetype and Ectype' John asks Wisdom about the thing that had quite terrified Lewis when he realized he would have to obey God. 'I am afraid,' says John, 'that the things the Landlord really intends for me may be utterly unlike the things he has taught me to desire.' 'They will be very unlike the things you imagine,' replies Wisdom. 'But you already know that the objects which your desire imagines are always inadequate to that desire. Until you have it you will not know what you wanted.'John struggles to withdraw, but Reason will not let him, and he returns to Mother Kirk.

In the chapter called 'Securus Te Projice' ('Throw yourself away without care') she tells him to dive down to the bottom of a pool of water and come up on the other side. When he replies that he has never learned to dive, Mother Kirk says, 'The art of diving is not to do anything new but simply to cease doing something. you have only to let yourself go.'John at last finds the Island of his dreams, and discovers that it is the other side of the Eastern mountains he had known all his life, the home of God.

In the final part of the work, called 'The Regress', John is shown, as Lewis tells us in the running headlines, 'the real shape of the world we live in' and 'How we walk on a knife-edge between Heaven and hell.' The 'regress' consists mainly in un-learning many of the things John had picked up over the years, and in this section Lewis attempts to answer many of the questions which had plagued him, such as the purpose of Hell. The last part of the book also contains most of the earliest, and best, of Lewis's religious poems.
I just knew you were gonna hit him with a bit of C.S. Lewis there. After reading his post I thought to myself' he'll reply with a nice bit of Lewis there...... and you did!!!

Think "street cred" mate
You don't even have house cred. Take your memes an go play elsewhere.
 






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