Finding the good in Agnosticism - an honest look at faith and doubt

A Freeman

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The fact that you see agreement between the message of the Qur’an and the Bible tells me you don’t really understand the message of the Bible.
Have you ever read and studied the Koran (Quran) please? If not, how would you know whether they agree or not?

If you're so certain that someone else doesn't understand the message of the Bible, then why not show them with Scripture where they are in error?

It's the organized religions that deceitfully call themselves "Christianity" and "Islam" that are at odds, NOT the Bible and the Koran (Quran), which are in perfect harmony, IF correctly understood.

I would agree that you can find a form of “works based salvation” in various forms of religious Christianity and also Islam.
Why do you use terminology like "works based salvation" please? Is it not to pretend that Christ didn't teach us that every single one of us WILL BE JUDGED ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS?

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.

Revelation 20:12-15
20:12 And I saw the "Dead", small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another Book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life: and the "Dead" were judged out of those things which were written in the Books, according to their works.
20:13 And the "sea" gave up the "Dead" which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.
20:14 And death and hell were cast into the "Lake of Fire". This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the "Lake of Fire".

Just because certain people who are not born again identify as Christians doesn’t make them so, any more than the current trans fixation is altering the number of actual men and women in this world.
There is no such thing as a "born again Christian" because if someone is actually born again, as their true, spiritual self, they know exactly why every single so-called Christian is going to be cast into the "Lake of Fire" unless they change their evil ways.

Why do you think Christ Himself specifically warned all "Christians" against becoming a part of any of the thousands of different denominations in that organized religion?

The video I linked was Romans 5-8. I presume you mean that Paul was the “spiritually blind guide”?
No, that was not the intention, so please accept my apology for not being clearer -- the post previously made has now been corrected.

The spiritually blind guides are those pretending that Paul -- who was a primary school student of Christ, THE Master/Teacher -- somehow superseded Christ and did away with The Law. Particularly when Christ plainly stated that He did NOT come to destroy The Law, and that heaven and earth would pass away before that happened.
 






Alanantic

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Such a philosophy suggests that nobody knows the truth. Hence truth is relative and there is no good or bad.

The idea that Krishna, Buddha and Jesus are one is a new age philosophy. This is the same belief that Alice Bailey came with. She speaks about how the so called universal Christ will return in the form of Maitreya which is likely the anti-Christ himself. All the above is new age nonsense. Any Muslim or Christian who know their stuff can sniff new agey ideas from a mile away.

If someone claims that God exists yet did not give us any purpose are attributing foolishness to God.

Imagine an employer interviewed 300 potential workers and gave 20 of them the job then on the first day he didn't tell any of them what to do. What would you say about such an employer? You would say he is an idiot for employing people and not telling them what their job is. What will the workers do? They will just sit in the lunch room all day drinking coffee and watching TV.

To say that nobody knows the truth is to say that God created human beings on earth and didn't tell them what do do. In other words God left us to wander blindly and decide ourselves what is good and bad.
All gods eventually die. (Vedas) They're simply a part of the Grand Illusion.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Have you ever read and studied the Koran (Quran) please? If not, how would you know whether they agree or not?
Oddly enough, a few years ago, my daughter was doing an RE GCSE and a large element of it was to understand the main principles of Islam. She wasn’t really into the subject as it was a compulsory one, so I had to study it myself to help her prepare for her exam.

I have also researched fairly extensively into Islam to the extent that YouTube’s algorithm now thinks I might be a Muslim and keeps targeting me with Islamic advertising!

Whilst I’m no Islamic scholar, I see no reason why I might find that more detailed knowledge would reveal an entirely different message than the broader brush one I had.

The clear message of the Qur’an teaches a totally different message on critical doctrines to the Bible. To pretend otherwise in order to promote Chrislam is simply deceptive.

Btw, Paul didn’t think that the Law would be “done away with”, rather that the Law alone without the new birth was insufficient to bring about holiness.

 






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A Freeman

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Oddly enough, a few years ago, my daughter was doing an RE GCSE and a large element of it was to understand the main principles of Islam. She wasn’t really into the subject as it was a compulsory one, so I had to study it myself to help her prepare for her exam.

I have also researched fairly extensively into Islam to the extent that YouTube’s algorithm now thinks I might be a Muslim and keeps targeting me with Islamic advertising!

Whilst I’m no Islamic scholar, I see no reason why I might find that more detailed knowledge would reveal an entirely different message than the broader brush one I had.
The "Muslims" (Muslims in name only, really) do not follow the teachings of the Koran (Quran) any more than "Christians" (another misnomer follow the teachings of Christ found in the Gospel accounts in the New Covenant.

If you've never read the Koran (Quran), then you are arguing from a point of ignorance, i.e. you do not know that it is in perfect agreement with the Bible, which it was sent to CONFIRM.

Christ is the most mentioned prophet in the Koran (Quran), which commands its readers to read, carefully study and follow The Law and the Gospel.


The clear message of the Qur’an teaches a totally different message on critical doctrines to the Bible.
You have admitted you haven't read the Koran (Quran), so how would you have any idea what it's "clear message" actually is? It is IMPOSSIBLE to learn from studying an organized religion ("Islam") that does NOT follow the teachings of the Koran, what it actually says in the Koran itself anymore than it's possible to learn what the Bible teaches from studying "Christianity", which teaches the exact opposite of what Christ teaches.

YOU ARE ARGUING ONE SATANIC MAN-MADE DOCTRINE AGAINST ANOTHER, NEITHER OF WHICH HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE WORD OF GOD.

Can you really not see the total insanity in that approach please?

To pretend otherwise in order to promote Chrislam is simply deceptive.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "CHRISTIANITY" OR "ISLAM" EXCEPT IN THE MINDS OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN DECEIVED INTO BELIEVING IN SUCH FICTIONS.

How then could there be such a thing as "Chrislam", i.e. some combination of two corporate fictional organized religions? Shame on you for attempting to use yet another satanic, fictional label to brush away your own ignorance of the Bible and the Koran (Quran).

This idiotic doctrinal approach is exactly what drives people to become agnostics and atheists. Many agnostics actually see the total hypocrisy and confusion in organized religions, which do NOT follow God's Word (Scripture), and wrongly decide to throw "the baby out with the bathwater" so to speak.

There is one simple, irrefutable and consistent message throughout the Bible and the Koran (Quran) and it is obedience to God and His Law is LIFE and GOOD and disobedience to God's Law is DEATH and EVIL.

Btw, Paul didn’t think that the Law would be “done away with”, rather that the Law alone without the new birth was insufficient to bring about holiness.
How would you have any idea of what Paul thought or what it means to be born again as one's true, spiritual self while arguing nothing but satanic man-made doctrines? Do you keep The Law and establish it wherever you go as Paul did?
 






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Red Sky at Morning

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THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "CHRISTIANITY" OR "ISLAM" EXCEPT IN THE MINDS OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN DECEIVED INTO BELIEVING IN SUCH FICTIONS.
1 - I have read at least some of the Qur’an

2 - Do you really contend that the people who identify as Muslims or Christians are so enamoured of religious authorities that they are unable to pick up their respective books and have a truly Qur’anic or Biblical faith?

3 - Please answer yes or no to this one:-

Q: Did Jesus die on the Cross and rise from the dead on the third day?
 






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A Freeman

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1 - I have read at least some of the Qur’an
Good. The most accurate Koran (Quran) available today is found in the King of kings' Bible, which is completely cross-referenced for the first time in human history with both the Old Covenant and New Covenant.

2 - Do you really contend that the people who identify as Muslims or Christians are so enamoured of religious authorities that they are unable to pick up their respective books and have a truly Qur’anic or Biblical faith?
Perhaps you don't even realize what you're doing in asking such loaded questions. First, I don't "contend" anything; all that is done is to point out FACTS (Truth). Everything that is personally shared is straight out of Scripture.

Secondly, anyone who identifies with any organized religion doesn't have faith (trust in God); they have made a conscience decision to place their trust in the doctrines and traditions of men, which make the Commandments of God of no effect, exactly as Christ warned.

Christ very plainly stated that He is the ONLY Master/Teacher/Good Shepherd/Mediator/High-Priest, and that every other so-called religious teacher or leader is a fraud/thief/anti-christ/wolf in sheep's clothing, etc. The spiritually blind leading the spiritually blind into The Fire.

So how can there be hundreds of thousands of so-called Christian priests, when Christ Himself says they do NOT exist? Similarly, how can there be imams and rabbis, etc., when God has condemned them and their places of business (churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, etc.)?

IF "Jews" and "Christians" and "Muslims" were actually living by Christ's Teachings and striving to DO God's Will, they would be united in one, single brotherhood under God's Law, found only in the first five books of the Bible.
3 - Please answer yes or no to this one:-
Q: Did Jesus die on the Cross and rise from the dead on the third day?
Yes, Jesus, the mortal human son of Mary, died on the cross and God (Father, the "I AM") raised Jesus from the dead three days AND three nights later, on the Sabbath day (Saturday) exactly as Christ prophesied would happen, in both Daniel 9:27 and again in Matthew 12:39-40.

As an example of how completely blind the adherents of "Christianity" really are, the overwhelming majority somehow choose to believe the man-made (and unscriptural) doctrine that Jesus died on a Friday, and was raised on a Sunday, less than two days and two nights later.

One yes or no question for you, if you please:

Are you able to see how anyone who claims that Jesus died on a Friday and was raised on a Sunday (as most "Christians" do) is actually calling Christ a liar?
 






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Red Sky at Morning

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@A Freeman

So just to be clear, you are of the view that both the Gospels and the Qur'an both assert that Jesus died on the Cross, lay in a tomb and then was raised from the dead?

I know the Bible teaches that, and as you have criticised my Islamic scholarship, I would defer to other Muslims on the forum to confirm the teachings of the Qur'an, maybe @Daze might offer a perspective?

btw:-

 






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billy t

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@A Freeman

So just to be clear, you are of the view that both the Gospels and the Qur'an both assert that Jesus died on the Cross, lay in a tomb and then was raised from the dead?

I know the Bible teaches that, and as you have criticised my Islamic scholarship, I would defer to other Muslims on the forum to confirm the teachings of the Qur'an, maybe @Daze might offer a perspective?
Freemans views are alien to Islaam.
 






Journeyman

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This made me laugh. I’m thinking “wait, all of it? Are you sure?” I get what you mean, but holy moly if people only knew!

The majority of people would go insane if they suddenly gained full awareness. Besides, the false definitions and beliefs eventually dissolve on their own after they are no longer necessary. It just takes some time to demonstrate consistency of decisions, then a more congruent pattern of thought can establish itself and replace its old counterpart.
:D Fair enough, it may have sounded like I wanted you sat at a keyboard from here to eternity, but I'm not quite that presumptuous! There are a couple of points on which I'd appreciate your feedback though. Really on the way by which the prayers and energy of those who mean good can be stolen or harvested by TPTB.

Would this be a good overview of things as you see it within TPTB?

 






billy t

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@A Freeman

So just to be clear, you are of the view that both the Gospels and the Qur'an both assert that Jesus died on the Cross, lay in a tomb and then was raised from the dead?

I know the Bible teaches that, and as you have criticised my Islamic scholarship, I would defer to other Muslims on the forum to confirm the teachings of the Qur'an, maybe @Daze might offer a perspective?
I have had back and froths with Freeman on numerous occasions but now ignore his posts because his arguments have been obliterated by Muslims on here again and again. You can refer to the thread on Paul and other threads with Christians.

Muslim scholars have consensus that Jesus peace be upon him didn't die.

Allah mentions how the Jews said “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” Allah then says , they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did".
 






Red Sky at Morning

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I have had back and froths with Freeman on numerous occasions but now ignore his posts because his arguments have been obliterated by Muslims on here again and again. You can refer to the thread on Paul and other threads with Christians.

Muslim scholars have consensus that Jesus peace be upon him didn't die.

Allah mentions how the Jews said “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” Allah then says , they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did".
Thank you for clarifying the Islamic position @billy t
 






A Freeman

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@A Freeman

So just to be clear, you are of the view that both the Gospels and the Qur'an both assert that Jesus died on the Cross, lay in a tomb and then was raised from the dead?
There is only one Gospel (Good News Message) even though there are several accounts, which serve as several witnesses (exactly as required by The Law).

And yes, the correct, spiritual view of the both the Gospel and the Koran (Quran) that was sent to CONFIRM what was sent before it (the Bible), is that the mortal human body of Jesus was crucified, died on the cross, was buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathaea (Jesus' wealthy great-uncle) and then was raised by God 3 days and 3 nights later, on the Sabbath day.

I know the Bible teaches that, and as you have criticised my Islamic scholarship,
Please stop doing that. At no time have I critised your "Islamic scholarship" (making what you're doing a strawman argument).

It has been brought to your attention more than once that the organized religion that deceitfully refers to itself as "Islam" has absolutely nothing to do with the Koran (Quran), in much the same way that the organized religion that deceitfully calls itself "Christianity" has nothing to do with Christ's True Teachings.

It has also been pointed out to you more than once that you cannot pretend to know anything about the Koran (Quran) without first reading and studying all of it, and comparing it to the Bible, which likewise needs to be read, carefully studied, and put into practice. You cannot judge a book by its cover, and besides, you have been COMMANDED by Christ not to do that (Matt. 7:1-4), as you know or should know.

I would defer to other Muslims on the forum to confirm the teachings of the Qur'an, maybe @Daze might offer a perspective?
Why would you seek guidance from the spiritually blind instead of from Christ, particularly after having the insanity of that totally illogical approach pointed out to you more than once? Would you ask a drug addict if doing drugs if doing drugs is bad for one's health?

You didn't answer the one question asked of you, which was whether you believe in the man-made doctrine/tradition of the Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection, or in Christ's own words about Jesus being buried in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.

What is your answer please? Was Jesus lying about 3 days and 3 nights or is Christianity lying when they claim Jesus was only buried for parts of 2 days and 2 nights (roughly 36 hours)?

If you can see that "Christians" are so blind they cannot count to three and feel comfortable calling Christ a liar, then it shouldn't come as any surprise that the "Muslims" are doing the same, choosing to believe their blind guides and traditions rather than the Koran (Quran) and the Bible.

Here is what it actually says about the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus in the Koran (Quran):-

Sura 4:157-159
4:157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ the son of Mary, the Messenger of God";- but they killed Christ not, nor crucified Christ (John 1:10), but so it was made to appear to them (as they crucified the human body called Jesus, that Christ the spirit-being used - Psalm 22; Isaiah 52:13 to 54:1; Zechariah 11:10-13; Matthew 27), and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) Knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed Christ not:-
4:158. NAY, GOD RAISED HIM UP UNTO HIMSELF and God is Exalted in Power, and in Wisdom;-
4:159. And, of the People of The Book, they all MUST believe him (Christ) before their death; and on The Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them (and you) (Sura 43:61);-

Note well: Sura 4:157 is probably the most misunderstood verse in the Koran. IF it is read properly, it provides us with CLEAR SIGNS AND CONVINCING PROOF that The Messiah/Christ, the immortal spirit-Being incarnated inside the mortal human Jesus (John 1:14, Sura 2:87, Sura 2:253, Sura 5:113), was NOT crucified; but JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED AND RAISED FROM THE DEAD BY GOD HIMSELF, as it says throughout the Bible and Koran, including in the very next verse (Sura 4:158).

Further confirmation of the crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus:-

Sura 6:122. Can he who was dead (Jesus – Matt. 27:50-54, Mark 15:37-39, Luke 23:44-47, John 19:30-42) to whom We gave life (Matt. 28:5-10, Mark 16:6-8, Luke 24, John 20), and a Light (John 3:19-21, John 8:3) with which he (Christ) walks amongst men, be like him who is in the depths of darkness (Lucifer), from which he can never come out? Thus to those without Faith their own deeds seem pleasing (Deut. 4:28, Matt. 6:5).

Excerpts from Sura 19:16-37, about Mary, the virgin birth, and Jesus, including a quotation from Jesus, prophesying His own death and resurrection:

Sura 19:19, 27, 33-36
19:19. He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of an HOLY SON (Rev. 15:4, Sura 59:23, Sura 62:1)."

19:27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! Truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!

19:33. So Peace is on me the day I was born, THE DAY THAT I DIE, AND THE DAY THAT I SHALL BE RAISED UP TO LIFE (again)!"
19:34. SUCH (WAS) JESUS THE SON OF MARY: (IT IS) A STATEMENT OF TRUTH, about which they (vainly) dispute.
19:35. It is not befitting to (the Majesty of) "I AM" that He should beget a (human) son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.
19:36. Verily "I AM" is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is The Way that is straight.

Please note well that verse 19:34 even warns readers of the Koran (Quran) NOT to vainly disputing the death and resurrection of Jesus, and yet most do exactly that, because they, like those who read the Bible, completely miss the spiritual fact that The IMMORTAL Messiah/Christ is the Son of God Who incarnated Jesus (the human son of Mary).

btw:-

Please have the common courtesy of just directly answering the question asked of you about the amount of time that Jesus spent buried in the heart of the earth. It's a simple yes or no question: was Jesus buried for 3 days and 3 nights after He was crucified and before he was raised?
 






Red Sky at Morning

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You didn't answer the one question asked of you, which was whether you believe in the man-made doctrine/tradition of the Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection...
The early church, in distancing itself from its Hebrew context lost the knowledge that there are various sabbaths talked about in the Bible. The feasts and high holy days had additional rest days built in, which is the reason I posted up that many believe in a Wednesday crucifixion:-


^ Link reposted

Of course, over time tradition can take people away from reading the Bible itself and many odd ideas can sneak in. I think it was the gap between tradition and the Bible that led to the reformation.
 






Tidal

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..you cannot pretend to know anything about the Koran (Quran) without first reading and studying all of it, and comparing it to the Bible, which likewise needs to be read, carefully studied, and put into practice.

Paul wouldn't agree with you mate and neither would I..:)
Paul said - "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

Jesus is easy enough to understand-
"And the common people heard Jesus gladly" (Mark 12:37)

This is a typical small slimline gospel which costs only a few pence from bookshops, or free from most christian groups; it can be read in a day or two and if people can't log onto Jesus after reading it, all the "studying" of the whole bible won't help them conect with him-



So its a satanic deception for anybody to suggest that Jesus can only be understood by long hard study of the entire bible.
As for the Koran, it claims Jesus is not the Son of God, therefore its not to be taken seriously...:)
 






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:D Fair enough, it may have sounded like I wanted you sat at a keyboard from here to eternity, but I'm not quite that presumptuous! There are a couple of points on which I'd appreciate your feedback though. Really on the way by which the prayers and energy of those who mean good can be stolen or harvested by TPTB.

Would this be a good overview of things as you see it within TPTB?

Yes, I seem to remember posting that same link in another thread a while ago. Lisa’s site is a great resource, but it is also a bit too deep for most people. It is best to gain some personal awareness first or you’ll have a hard time grasping most of the info. Self-discovery through dreamwork and meditation will reveal more than any second-hand method, and is usually prerequisite for understanding the universe on a deeper level.

Energy harvesting by negative parasitic entities is a complicated subject. It’s too much to go into in this topic. It involves etheric energy technology that exists just out-of-phase with our reality (in other words it’s invisible) If you poke around Lisa’s ascension glossary you will find some relevant info. Keep in mind that a LOT has changed for the better recently. Many of the systems that were in place for millennia have been dismantled and will not be allowed to influence our planet any longer.

None of that matters too much, though. More importantly, here are the very basics that you need to understand: Kindness is the default state, yet from the very beginning we are surrounded by people passing judgment on each other, which becomes increasingly normalized. Let’s be honest with ourselves. If all of humanity suddenly lost interest in gossip and selfish exclusion of others, would any religion survive?

Kindness literally connects us to a dimensional frequency which emits an energetic field of higher intelligence. It’s nothing “magic”, it’s simply the mechanics of energy. This is the infinite intelligence that is the source of all that exists.

First of all, “pledging your allegiance” to something, to anything, is a terrible idea. This is the free will choice to surrender the command of your personal energy to some outside entity. This concept is an extension of the negative ego, and encourages us to remove ourselves from kindness by projecting our own shame upon those who don’t pledge their allegiance in the same manner. The idea is to make passing judgment on others more unconscious and automatic (robotic). They don’t want us putting too much thought into it, because it leads to questioning and reassessment.

The goal of energy harvesting with regards to religion and prayer is to disconnect the idea of prayer from the energies of kindness, peacefulness, gratitude, compassion, etc as much as possible. When we are within these energies and expressing them more purely, that is exactly what is directed toward others during prayer. It’s entirely mechanical, exactly like magnetism but more subtle and less physical if that makes sense to you.
 






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Also important to mention is the fact that “wishing” for something is actually the same as holding on more tightly to the anxiety and uncertainty that it will ever be fulfilled. This is a free will choice that will ensure that the fulfillment of your wish is always kept at arm’s length. It’s essentially a lack of gratitude and trust in outcome. If this is what you choose, then so it will be. It’s really that simple. Look around and ask: do most people tend to pray when they are feeling contentment and total peace, or are we trained to pray when we are stressed or anxious about something? The answer is obvious I hope.
 






Identify

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Let’s just examine this one....

If God is real and if He wants us to know something of his nature, He may or may not have wanted to convey that knowledge through recorded words.

If He wanted people to write things that were true about Him, you might reasonably expect that from the earliest times, there might be some record.

Add to this, if Satan (or similar malevolent force in the Universe) existed, you might expect him to either oppose this record, or to produce oppositional narratives that either fully oppose the true one, as well as deceptive narratives that have some similarities but are different in essential points.

If in these myriad of self-proclaimed disclosures of God’s plan, one of them is ACTUALLY true, it is no matter of “pride” to find the truth (if you are fortunate enough to do so), since it was not your merit that brought you to it.

That having been said, the truths that are within us should resonate most strongly with the true text (if indeed there is one) and by the same token be repelled by false ones.
God is real, by god I mean the source of the creation we are all part of.
All he wanted to express, he did so in the creation itself. Written words are just the interpretation of the creation by one human. Attributing these texts to god himself is an insult to god.

You also assume god has a plan, this is your interpretation of his creation. You can not prove this.
That is where religious people lose all credibility. They always make assumptions about god based on nothing as it is impossible to prove any of their claims.

Yes some texts will resonate and contain truth, this however does not prove they are God's words. This just means the writer was insightful.
Stop worshipping other people's words...
Edit;
IMG_20210607_184048_533.jpg
 






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