Finding the good in Agnosticism - an honest look at faith and doubt

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
11,111
I had a mental picture of a group of cave explorers who found themselves in a large cavern. They fell asleep after a long days crawling through tunnels and when they woke up, one of them realised he had accidentally broke the compass.

They knew that they had to head north, but with many smaller tunnels leading into the cavern, choosing one was a vexing question.

What many in the group quickly realised was that to take one, and it be the wrong one might be very dangerous. Perhaps later on in the tunnel, the CO2 levels would spike and you might suffocate or the ceiling give way!

Was there even a way out? Was it one that humans could take?

The group sat with no compass, no light from the outside showing the way, just a torch with a diminishing battery that would soon leave them all in the dark.

This seemed to me a very apt picture of agnosticism. It felt like a state people might find themselves in at some point in their journey, but not a place which a person could safely remain forever.

You have to admire an agnostic on the one hand for needing to make sure of which of the myriad tunnels to try, but lament the awful state of someone who sinks into it, concluding that there is no way out and all answers must be forever be suspect.
 






Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,351
We're all stuck on this spinning ball of mud sailing through space without knowing how we got here or where we're going, but agnostics say "We don't need anybody's help to get off this rock".
Personally I prefer to follow that Jesus bloke because he was a bit like this Royce character in 'Predators'..:)

 






Alanantic

Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
668
We're all stuck on this spinning ball of mud sailing through space without knowing how we got here or where we're going, but agnostics say "We don't need anybody's help to get off this rock".
Personally I prefer to follow that Jesus bloke because he was a bit like this Royce character in 'Predators'..:)

When you're done with that, don't forget to think for yourself.
 






Tidal

Star
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
3,351
When you're done with that, don't forget to think for yourself.

Well, a bloke beamed down to earth, said "I'm not of this world" and did miracles and stuff to prove it, and said "Follow me, I came to get you off this planet", so I think he's our best bet to help us bust out of this planet unless you know anybody better?..:)

Jesus said- "God has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners...to release the oppressed" (Luke 4:18 )
 






Alanantic

Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
668
Well, a bloke beamed down to earth, said "I'm not of this world" and did miracles and stuff to prove it, and said "Follow me, I came to get you off this planet", so I think he's our best bet to help us bust out of this planet unless you know anybody better?..:)

Jesus said- "God has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners...to release the oppressed" (Luke 4:18 )
Actually, I always considered him a bit of an egomaniac. Buddha had much less attitude.

"Don't get attached to what I say, don't get attached to any doctrine, to what I preach; don't get attached to my personality. These are all just fingers pointing to the moon. Forget me, don't start worshiping me; just look at the moon. And once you have looked at the moon, I don't matter at all." -- Buddha

Krishna, on the other hand, made no bones about who he was/Is.

"When goodness grows weak,
When evil increases,
I make myself a body.
In every age I come back
To deliver the holy,
To destroy the sin of the sinner,
To establish righteousness."

Krishna, Bhagavad Gita


Looks like Krishna, Buddha, and Jesus could all be the same guy! I do realize that's impossible for you to fathom... :)
 






Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
1,832
Both theists and atheists are technically agnostic from my perspective (to an extent). If theists did not hold onto some small bit of doubt inside, they would not bother to proclaim belief at all, just as atheists would not bother to proclaim their disbelief if they did not have some small part of themselves asking “what if?”
 






Alanantic

Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
668
"That's how I know he can be beaten. Because he's a fanatic. And the fanatic is always concealing a secret doubt." John le Carre
 






Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
11,111
If theists did not hold onto some small bit of doubt inside, they would not bother to proclaim belief at all...
Now that’s a statement that requires some examination... why indeed might a theist want to “proclaim belief”?

I think some people would certainly see it as trying to reassure themselves of their truth claims...

On the other hand, a theist may wish to tell others because they are so persuaded of that truth and the implications for those who reject it that they simply cannot in all good conscience stand by and say nothing.
 






Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
1,832
Now that’s a statement that requires some examination... why indeed might a theist want to “proclaim belief”?

I think some people would certainly see it as trying to reassure themselves of their truth claims...

On the other hand, a theist may wish to tell others because they are so persuaded of that truth and the implications for those who reject it that they simply cannot in all good conscience stand by and say nothing.
I was referring specifically to the inner proclamation. (Saying “I believe” or “I disbelieve” to yourself, internally.) Telling others is just one extension of it.
 






Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
1,832
Here’s the secret meaning if you’re ready for it: Telling others about god is the encoded command to “worship the G.O.A.T.” (the god of all things)

...which is also represented by the “evil magician” archetype, or in free mason ree the “GAOTU or grand architect of the universe” which can be more accurately described as the architect of the false mind control systems, in other words definitely not the Source of all existence.
 






Last edited:

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
11,111
Here’s the secret meaning if you’re ready for it: Telling others about god is the encoded command to “worship the G.O.A.T.” (the god of all things)

...which is also represented by the “evil magician” archetype, or in free mason ree the “GAOTE grand architect of the universe” which can be more accurately described as the architect of the false mind control systems, in other words definitely not the Source of all existence.
Might I suggest that you can but a label on a tin, but it won’t change the contents?

In the same way, a false god can be formulated and then knocked down or vilified without ever telling you a thing about the real one?
 






Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
1,832
Might I suggest that you can but a label on a tin, but it won’t change the contents?

In the same way, a false god can be formulated and then knocked down or vilified without ever telling you a thing about the real one?
That’s another way of saying essentially the same thing, yes.
 






Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
1,832
The bloodline cult families in the upper echelons of religious institutions who are promoting “belief in god” have a very specific god in mind. That’s all I’m really saying. It’s like a code word to them. I’m not implicating the common religious person. I am just exposing one of the mind games the controllers enjoy playing.
 






Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
1,832
“Believe in god” means something secret and specific to these folks. To them, it is more like a hypnotic initiation rite for the unwitting. It’s not always equally effective- depends on the individual. Effectiveness is proportional to the total amount of focus and attention a person is willing to surrender toward the grand ritual. This is actually a very ancient practice that continues to this day.
 






Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
11,111
The bloodline cult families in the upper echelons of religious institutions who are promoting “belief in god” have a very specific god in mind. That’s all I’m really saying. It’s like a code word to them. I’m not implicating the common religious person. I am just exposing one of the mind games the controllers enjoy playing.
As in, there is the true God who created the heavens and the earth (who was willing to come as a servant) and also the de-facto, tin-pot dictator “god of this world” who likes the tiles of Grand Architect of the Universe or G.O.A.T (rather like the jerks who simply have to have flashy number plates)?

I think I get what you mean now.
 






Top