Todd
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Curious why you point out the seventh day of the week is the Sabbath if observing all of that OT stuff is so offensive to God?
Eye on Israel...(...and The Spiritual Battle Behind The War...)
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Todd
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Your contradicting yourself. First you say the last feasts haven't happened yet, then you say all the feasts have already happened so no one needs to observe them. You fail to realize that the Feasts of God where not just for the Jews, but they are a declaration and calendar of God's plan to reconcile all of creation, not only to man but the powers and principalities of the air, and all wickedness in high places.
The Hebrews are a chosen people, not because of anything they did or anything that is more redeeming abput them than other nation or ethnicity. They are called to be the bearer of God's covenant and part of that call is observing the feasts so the world can see God's calendar. The call of God is irrevocable and the events on the calendar have not been fully completed. Hence God is regathering his people to Israel to reintroduce the calendar to the world.
No it's not obvious. Why do you see celebrating and observing a feast that points to Christ as an abomination? God instituted those feasts to teach and declare Christ. The Jews don't have a revelation of who Christ is yet, so why would God not want to reinstitute the feasts to bring them revelation and declare God's plan to them and the whole world?
Todd
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I suppose, but I ask because highlighting/promoting a Sabbath day is contrary to the point he is making in our discussion about the feasts of God. His argument is that Christ did away with the law/ordinances of the OT, so it is offensive to Christ observe them.
IrrelevantPerson
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this site needs to take its head out of its arse and actually learn to be nice to users
IrrelevantPerson
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america already looks like a turd world country
e-Enoch
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"Syria says Israeli airstrikes hit Damascus, Aleppo airports..."
www.timesofisrael.com
Syria says Israeli airstrikes hit Damascus, Aleppo airports
Local media report runways hit in both locations, putting them out of service; Syrian military source accuses Israel of trying to divert attention from Gaza war
www.timesofisrael.com
e-Enoch
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"People gather and light candles to show solidarity with Israel and remember the victims following an attack by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, at Dizengoff square in Tel Aviv, Israel October 12, 2023.(photo credit: REUTERS/JANIS LAIZANS)" *
*Jerusalem Post
@Todd
The only feast that has not been fulfilled is the feast of tabernacles which was about harvest and represents the final harvest of the redeemed. We are waiting for our Saviour to return so it doesn't call for keeping it and all the other feasts too which are null and void. The Bible makes it clear the those feasts were nailed to the cross.
When Christ died, at that same time the curtain in the temple that hid the Most Holy room/Holy of Holies was ripped in two from top to bottom by an unseen person, "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split"(Matthew 27:50-51). In this way, God demonstrated that the Jewish sacrificial system with its rites and ceremonies had ended. Atonement for sins was only available through Christ, and the symbolic practices had been fulfilled through Christ. To keep the feasts is an insult to God. To celebrate them is a regression backwards, and those that teach that we need to keep the feasts do not understand what the feasts celebrated and they are not needed for salvation either. Only Jesus is needed for salvation. This is the truth of the Word of God whether you accept it or not.
Also everything about the sanctuary represented Christ including the high priest that represented Christ's ministry as High Priest in heaven. The Bible tells us, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5) No earthly high priest can and should even try to replace Jesus as high priest and mediator. I posted about this in my thread on the heavenly temple/sanctuary in this post.
The Old Testament sanctuary service, with its rituals and feasts, is symbolic of the Gospel too. The New Testament is the Gospel that fulfills the Old Testament’s symbols. Studying the sanctuary leads us to a greater understanding of Christ’s ministry, which is important to understanding the plan of salvation. Understanding the ministry of Christ is also important because the Bible warns that deceivers will try to lead us astray. Sadly most Christians don't know anythind about the earthly or heavenly sanctuaries.
Literal Jews are not more special than other people in this world. God does not favour them over other people as Peter the apostle found out, "God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him” (Acts 10:34-35) and Paul wrote, "For there is no partiality with God" (Romans 2:11). They are not going to be saved in a different way to Gentiles either. God is not going to cut them more slack because they are related to Abraham. They are going to be saved in exactly the same way as all mankind if they accept Jesus as Saviour and have faith in Him. If they don't, they will face the same consequences as the rest of humanity that also rejected Christ which is be punished in hellfire and lose their lives eternally.
What is it with this calender that you keep talking about? Can you show me in the Bible where this calender is spoken of in relation to keeping the feasts after Christ's sacrifice for us?
The earthly sanctuary system was instituted to help the Jews understand the heavenly sanctuary and the plan of salvation. When the lamb was put on the altar it was to signify Jesus’ great sacrifice for our sins as the only way to find pardon and enter into eternal life.
After Jesus' sacrifice, He entered the heavenly temple with His own blood, the only blood that matters and is needed to save us. That is what Paul is talking about in Hebrews 12:24 when he says, “to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel."
If its not obvious to you that its wrong to observe the feasts even though throughout the Bible its very clear especially in the New Testament, then pray to God to reveal the truth to you and that you accept it when its revealed to you. Because what I'm telling you is the truth of God's Word.
The new Israel in the New Covenant inherits God’s covenant promises from the Old Testament. Those who have accepted Christ become the chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God.
Peter says this about all Christians in the New Testament, "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy" (1 Peter 2:9-10).
He took that saying from Exodus 19:5-6 which referred to literal Israel in the Old Covenant but refers to Spiritual Israel in the New Covenant which is the Church and has people from the whole world no matter what race they are.
I didn't say the last feasts haven't happened. So please don't put words in my mouth. I was very careful when I said, "The last three feasts are about the end time and Jesus' second coming." Most end time events have happened including two of the last three feasts.
The only feast that has not been fulfilled is the feast of tabernacles which was about harvest and represents the final harvest of the redeemed. We are waiting for our Saviour to return so it doesn't call for keeping it and all the other feasts too which are null and void. The Bible makes it clear the those feasts were nailed to the cross.
When Christ died, at that same time the curtain in the temple that hid the Most Holy room/Holy of Holies was ripped in two from top to bottom by an unseen person, "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split"(Matthew 27:50-51). In this way, God demonstrated that the Jewish sacrificial system with its rites and ceremonies had ended. Atonement for sins was only available through Christ, and the symbolic practices had been fulfilled through Christ. To keep the feasts is an insult to God. To celebrate them is a regression backwards, and those that teach that we need to keep the feasts do not understand what the feasts celebrated and they are not needed for salvation either. Only Jesus is needed for salvation. This is the truth of the Word of God whether you accept it or not.
Also everything about the sanctuary represented Christ including the high priest that represented Christ's ministry as High Priest in heaven. The Bible tells us, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5) No earthly high priest can and should even try to replace Jesus as high priest and mediator. I posted about this in my thread on the heavenly temple/sanctuary in this post.
The Old Testament sanctuary service, with its rituals and feasts, is symbolic of the Gospel too. The New Testament is the Gospel that fulfills the Old Testament’s symbols. Studying the sanctuary leads us to a greater understanding of Christ’s ministry, which is important to understanding the plan of salvation. Understanding the ministry of Christ is also important because the Bible warns that deceivers will try to lead us astray. Sadly most Christians don't know anythind about the earthly or heavenly sanctuaries.
Yes Hebrews are chosen and they are the ones who accept Christ as their Saviour and have faith in Him, Jew or Gentile. Literal Jews are no longer chosen and haven't been since they rejected Christ for the last time at Stephen's stoning. After that the message began to preached more fully to the Gentiles.
Literal Jews are not more special than other people in this world. God does not favour them over other people as Peter the apostle found out, "God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him” (Acts 10:34-35) and Paul wrote, "For there is no partiality with God" (Romans 2:11). They are not going to be saved in a different way to Gentiles either. God is not going to cut them more slack because they are related to Abraham. They are going to be saved in exactly the same way as all mankind if they accept Jesus as Saviour and have faith in Him. If they don't, they will face the same consequences as the rest of humanity that also rejected Christ which is be punished in hellfire and lose their lives eternally.
What is it with this calender that you keep talking about? Can you show me in the Bible where this calender is spoken of in relation to keeping the feasts after Christ's sacrifice for us?
Celebrating the feasts is not going to save anyone is it? Even in the Old Testament it did not. When Jesus died He finally also paid for the sins of all those in the Old Testament who took part in sanctuary services. We are told in the Bible, "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us" (Hebrews 9:11-12). We are only saved through Christ's sacrifice including all those in the Old Testament. Goat and calves' blood cannot save anyone nor did it.
The earthly sanctuary system was instituted to help the Jews understand the heavenly sanctuary and the plan of salvation. When the lamb was put on the altar it was to signify Jesus’ great sacrifice for our sins as the only way to find pardon and enter into eternal life.
After Jesus' sacrifice, He entered the heavenly temple with His own blood, the only blood that matters and is needed to save us. That is what Paul is talking about in Hebrews 12:24 when he says, “to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel."
If its not obvious to you that its wrong to observe the feasts even though throughout the Bible its very clear especially in the New Testament, then pray to God to reveal the truth to you and that you accept it when its revealed to you. Because what I'm telling you is the truth of God's Word.
The new Israel in the New Covenant inherits God’s covenant promises from the Old Testament. Those who have accepted Christ become the chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God.
Peter says this about all Christians in the New Testament, "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy" (1 Peter 2:9-10).
He took that saying from Exodus 19:5-6 which referred to literal Israel in the Old Covenant but refers to Spiritual Israel in the New Covenant which is the Church and has people from the whole world no matter what race they are.
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e-Enoch
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@Todd
Christian Zionists/dispensationalists are wrong when they insist that God’s promises to Abraham, will be fulfilled in this present world through literal and physical Israel, for scripture states plainly that this is not so.
They ignore the New Testament interpretation of Old Testament prophecy.
Dispensationalism insists that the earthly promises which were made to Abraham, were made exclusively with him and with his physical
seed.
Scripture however, states to the contrary.
a. Romans 2:28-29 says He is not a Jew who is one outwardly.
b. Romans 9:6 says They are not all Israel which are of Israel.
c. Galatians 3:29 says They that are Christ’s are Abraham's seed.
d. Galatians 3:14 says That the blessings of Abraham may come on the Gentiles in Christ Jesus.
e. Galatians 3:28 says For “you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Dispensationalism insists that the Old Testament Covenants were made exclusively with God’s earthly people Israel, and therefore
have nothing whatsoever to do with the Church. The following verses reveal plainly that this is not so.
a. Hebrews chapter 8. This chapter tells us plainly that the Old Covenant is now “obsolete” and that Christ is now the mediator
of the New Covenant, made with “the House of Israel and the House of Judah.”
b. Hebrews chapter 9. Again this chapter tells us plainly that Christ is now mediator of the “new covenant.”
c. Hebrews chapter 10. Again we are told that the blessings of the “new covenant” are now ours (i.e. the Church’s) in Christ. It also says that animal sacrifices are insufficient.
d. Luke 22:20. Every time Christian believers partake of Lord’s supper, there is the reminder, that “in Christ” Jews and Gentiles share together in the blessings of the New Covenant, for the Lord Jesus said, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.”
The simple fact of the matter is,
1. The everlasting promises of God to Abraham and his seed, were not made exclusively with his literal, physical descendants at all.
2. The everlasting promises of God to Abraham and his seed, will not be fulfilled in the Canaan of this present world.
3. The everlasting promise made to Israel under the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus19:5-8) were not made exclusively with the physical seed of
Abraham, for these promises are fulfilled by all who are in Christ (1 Peter 1:2-9).
4. The everlasting kingdom promised to Israel, was not promised exclusively to the natural seed of Abraham, nor is this kingdom to be
realized in this present world. "Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here” (John 18:36).
5. The New Covenant does not pertain to the physical nation of Israel, but it pertains to the whole family of God – the True Israel of faith.
If you really are interested in knowing the truth of God on this subject, please read all these passages in the Bible in context in their chapters especially the ones in Hebrews which is the book that actually explains this subject more than any other (I've linked all the Bible passages). The chapters are not that long.
You will see the Bible harmonises on this subject and is consistent.
I've nothing left to say to you on this subject. I will pray that God reveals the truth to you on this subject because this is God's truth.
Christian Zionists/dispensationalists are wrong when they insist that God’s promises to Abraham, will be fulfilled in this present world through literal and physical Israel, for scripture states plainly that this is not so.
They ignore the New Testament interpretation of Old Testament prophecy.
Dispensationalism insists that the earthly promises which were made to Abraham, were made exclusively with him and with his physical
seed.
Scripture however, states to the contrary.
a. Romans 2:28-29 says He is not a Jew who is one outwardly.
b. Romans 9:6 says They are not all Israel which are of Israel.
c. Galatians 3:29 says They that are Christ’s are Abraham's seed.
d. Galatians 3:14 says That the blessings of Abraham may come on the Gentiles in Christ Jesus.
e. Galatians 3:28 says For “you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Dispensationalism insists that the Old Testament Covenants were made exclusively with God’s earthly people Israel, and therefore
have nothing whatsoever to do with the Church. The following verses reveal plainly that this is not so.
a. Hebrews chapter 8. This chapter tells us plainly that the Old Covenant is now “obsolete” and that Christ is now the mediator
of the New Covenant, made with “the House of Israel and the House of Judah.”
b. Hebrews chapter 9. Again this chapter tells us plainly that Christ is now mediator of the “new covenant.”
c. Hebrews chapter 10. Again we are told that the blessings of the “new covenant” are now ours (i.e. the Church’s) in Christ. It also says that animal sacrifices are insufficient.
d. Luke 22:20. Every time Christian believers partake of Lord’s supper, there is the reminder, that “in Christ” Jews and Gentiles share together in the blessings of the New Covenant, for the Lord Jesus said, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.”
The simple fact of the matter is,
1. The everlasting promises of God to Abraham and his seed, were not made exclusively with his literal, physical descendants at all.
2. The everlasting promises of God to Abraham and his seed, will not be fulfilled in the Canaan of this present world.
3. The everlasting promise made to Israel under the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus19:5-8) were not made exclusively with the physical seed of
Abraham, for these promises are fulfilled by all who are in Christ (1 Peter 1:2-9).
4. The everlasting kingdom promised to Israel, was not promised exclusively to the natural seed of Abraham, nor is this kingdom to be
realized in this present world. "Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here” (John 18:36).
5. The New Covenant does not pertain to the physical nation of Israel, but it pertains to the whole family of God – the True Israel of faith.
If you really are interested in knowing the truth of God on this subject, please read all these passages in the Bible in context in their chapters especially the ones in Hebrews which is the book that actually explains this subject more than any other (I've linked all the Bible passages). The chapters are not that long.
You will see the Bible harmonises on this subject and is consistent.
I've nothing left to say to you on this subject. I will pray that God reveals the truth to you on this subject because this is God's truth.
-
I hadn't seen this response. The Sabbath is part of the ten commandments not ceremonial law. There is a difference between those two laws.
The ten commandment law were written by God Himself with His finger. Its what points out sin (Romans 7:7, 3:20).
Exodus 31:18, "And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God."
Exodus 32:16, "And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables."
The two tables of stone were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant which was in the most holy room/holly of hollies in the earthly sanctuary/temple. The Ark of the Covenant aka the Ark of the Tabernacle is in the heavenly temple (Revelation 11:19, 15:5).
The ten commandments are called the eternal law and Jesus said about them, “It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail” (Luke 16:17) and “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law. … I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. … Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled” (Matthew 5:17-18). The Bible is clear that the law of God cannot be changed. The commandments are revealed principles of God’s holy character and are the very foundation of His kingdom. They will be true as long as God exists.
We are all going to be judged by the standard of the ten commandments.
So we have to keep the sabbath as the fourth commandment tells us to because in the Bible if we break one of the commandments we break them all (James 2:10). And the Sabbath has always been Saturday from creation where the Sabbath was instituted because God rested after creation.
Jesus and the apostles kept the Sabbath in the New Testament too.
The Sabbath will also be kept in heaven for all eternity, "For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord, “So shall your descendants and your name remain. And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord" (Isaiah 66:22-23).
Observing the Sabbath is not offensive to God at all since we'll have it for all eternity.
Ceremonial law ( the law of types and ceremonies) was written by Moses in the book of the law, and was placed beside the Ark. This law centred around the sanctuary and its services, all of which, of course, were designed to teach the children of Israel the plan of salvation and point them to the coming Messiah.
Deuteronomy 31:24-26, "And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee."
These two sets of laws, the one moral and the other ceremonial, were thus entirely different and served completely different purposes.
Please study the Bible and differentiate between ceremonial law and the ten commandants. And this is not about any denomination, its about what the Bible clearly teaches.
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Todd
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@phipps I never said anything about a denomination. Thank you for the explanation about the ceremonial law vs moral law. Not sure I agree with that or see where the New Testament or Jesus clearly teach that, but it's great explanation of your dogma.
There was a period where I studied and embraced Replacement Theology but ultimately I can't reconcile it with Romans 11.
Romans 11:7–8, “But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you."
I can't get past that the arrogance spoken of by Paul is directed squarely at Replacement Theology.
There was a period where I studied and embraced Replacement Theology but ultimately I can't reconcile it with Romans 11.
Romans 11:7–8, “But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you."
I can't get past that the arrogance spoken of by Paul is directed squarely at Replacement Theology.