Does Democracy Work?

Etagloc

Superstar
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,310
Lol yes. Anyone who tries to attack the tribe will be met with serious force. An army of shapeshifting monsters for our front line. Blood mages to rain down terror and destruction. A clan of expert assassins and that's all just icing on the blood cake. Our problems would all be internal. And I don't mean the fact that we drink blood.

Lawbreakers like Jochris would mean there could be open rebellion. Or just a lot of disagreements. Which is kind of the main problem with democracy. Too many idealists basically. There aren't enough chiefs actually playing the chief role properly. So what you end up with is the cluster fuck of red tape that is so prevalent now. Like you have to go through the right "channels" just to get anything done. And getting through that channel is like swimming against the current, while other people stand and point at you.

Call me crazy but I actually like a well run Monarchy. If you have the right King or Queen that is. If you don't you are totally screwed.
Democracy is overrated. A lot of people don't realize that we don't actually have democracy in the West. Actual democracy was tried in Athens and it was a failed experiment.
 






DesertRose

Superstar
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
6,858
You should be the head Muslim minister :)
i.e city states work because they are more involved in trade than war.
Nassim Taleb quotes:
"In my tableau of what’s fragile and what’s robust, the nation-state is a fragile entity, whereas city-states are more robust."
"The great top-down nation-state will be only cosmetically alive, weakened by deficits, politicians' misalignment of interests and the magnification of errors by centralised systems. The pre-modernist robust model of city-states and statelings will prevail, with obsessive fiscal prudence."
Agreed I will lead when necessary .....I like limited/small/local governance as well.
Kindly give the message below to the vampire types ......this is my philosophy for our tribeo_O:p
"Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery."
Malcolm X
 






Last edited:

linderbak

Rookie
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Messages
16
Democracy is overrated. A lot of people don't realize that we don't actually have democracy in the West. Actual democracy was tried in Athens and it was a failed experiment.
We have liberal democracy. You elect the national government, the local governments and get to vote on some of the bigger issues. Plus you're given freedom to do pretty much whatever you want, as long as it doesn't harm the society. It has taken us 10 000 years to develop that system, through trial and error. Now we have managed to build societies that are more stable than any other and many people are willing to risk their lives to get in. I wouldn't call it overrated. I dare you to go live somewhere else. Or start one of those hippie camps that rarely lasts beyond several years :D
 






manama

Star
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,851
But what are the alternatives to democracy?
Open dictatorships (e.g. Augusto Pinochet), group dictatorships (e.g. 20th century Russian/ Chinese Communism), or religious tyranny nations e.g. Iraq.
Where do refugees of all types want to go to: non-democratic nations or democractic nations?
In tyranny you rebel. People have one goal, one person to get rid of, they are all united in front of one common enemy. It isnt the same in democracy where just having more population enables one to rule over the other, majority oppresses the minority. And when they fight back, its bloodshed while the higher ups take their entertainment from it and make their business in that war.
 






linderbak

Rookie
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Messages
16
In tyranny you rebel. People have one goal, one person to get rid of, they are all united in front of one common enemy. It isnt the same in democracy where just having more population enables one to rule over the other, majority oppresses the minority. And when they fight back, its bloodshed while the higher ups take their entertainment from it and make their business in that war.
How exactly is the minority oppressed in western societies? Whatever the minority happens to be, it seems they're having better lives here than anywhere else, which to me is a sign of something. Of course, if your views go totally against the majority, they're in no obligation to accept you in their society, but that applies to any society, even more so in anarchism.
 






DesertRose

Superstar
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
6,858
How exactly is the minority oppressed in western societies? Whatever the minority happens to be, it seems they're having better lives here than anywhere else, which to me is a sign of something. Of course, if your views go totally against the majority, they're in no obligation to accept you in their society, but that applies to any society, even more so in anarchism.
You have a point there, however the cultural Marxism and the wars are oppressive for many who hold differing positions. These are hijacked societies. Those who do not approve these policies will have to assess whether living in comfortable slavery is worth it.


Quotes from Self-Reliance: Ralph Waldo Emerson
It's worth thinking about these quotes.
  • Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string.
  • Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members.
  • Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist.
  • What I must do is all that concerns me, not what the people think.
  • A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do.
  • It is easy to see that a greater self-reliance must work a revolution in all the offices and relations of men; in their religion; in their education; in their pursuits; their modes of living; their association; in their property; in their speculative views.
  • Travelling is a fool's paradise.
  • Insist on yourself; never imitate.
  • Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other.
  • The civilized man has built a coach, but has lost the use of his feet.
  • Society is a wave. The wave moves onward, but the water of which it is composed does not.
  • And so the reliance on Property, including the reliance on governments which protect it, is the want of self-reliance.
  • Nothing can bring you peace but yourself. Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles.
( DR; Godly principles for myself)



(The economy is hijacked and in free fall as well).
 






Last edited:

Illuminized

Established
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Messages
213
Aeneid
But what are the alternatives to democracy?
Open dictatorships (e.g. Augusto Pinochet), group dictatorships (e.g. 20th century Russian/ Chinese Communism), or religious tyranny nations e.g. Iraq.
Where do refugees of all types want to go to: non-democratic nations or democractic nations?
No system is universally suitable for everyone. Each nation must, in time, settle upon it's own form of government.

Voltaire compares a republic to a dragon with many heads and many tails. "The many heads hurt each other, and the many tails obey a single head which wants to devour everything." This is what President George Washington warned about in his farewell address. Donald Trump has already made a colossal mistake with his nepotism. It will only get worse from here on out.

Nazism was never meant to be an export article. In it are preached lofty ideals that are peculiar to the German character. Hitler had read Aristotle, he was familiar with the golden mean. He considered himself a realist. He expected a Nazi renaissance in Germany, not in Britain, France, America, etc. This ongoing American Alt-Right appropriation of Nazism is contributing to the destruction of it's teachings.

History furnishes us with two prominent examples of ideals gone off the rails: Socrates and Jesus. The core of Jesus' teachings can be found in the Sermon on the Mount. What is taught there would most certainly not have been given off to everyone. It would be "casting pearls before the swine", a betrayal of his own principles. He had a seventy and a twelve. It's a symbolic number for his inner circle. Paul destroyed Jesus' teachings by adapting it for his superstitious hearers (Jews) and by spreading his own private interpretation of it to the Gentiles, who evidently had no interest in it (Acts 17:32). Didn't Jesus himself say he was sent only to the Jews (Matt. 15:24)?

Now a word on the belief of the Gentiles:
The Christian concept of heaven/hell is a literalization and distortion of the Elysian fields and Hades. These ancient Greek concepts signified a rational form of the reward/punishment system, as well as a rational reincarnation (not like the Hindus). Those who had cultivated the arts, music, philosophy, all sorts of ennobling crafts would be afforded the opportunity to cultivate them even further after they lost their physical body while those who were invested in material and sensuous pleasures would be utterly deprived of them, hence weeping and gnashing of teeth. Once these wretches had come to realize their mistake, they would be allowed to reincarnate back into this world. The two sources for my interpretation are Ovid's Metamorphoses and Virgil's Aeneid:

"I delight in journeying
among the distant stars: I delight in leaving
earth and its dull spaces, to ride the clouds; to
stand on the shoulders of mighty Atlas, looking
down from far off on men"

"Each spirit suffers its own: then we are sent
through wide Elysium, and we few stay in the joyous fields,
for a length of days, till the cycle of time,
complete, removes the hardened stain, and leaves
pure ethereal thought, and the brightness of natural air."
 






manama

Star
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,851
How exactly is the minority oppressed in western societies? Whatever the minority happens to be, it seems they're having better lives here than anywhere else, which to me is a sign of something. Of course, if your views go totally against the majority, they're in no obligation to accept you in their society, but that applies to any society, even more so in anarchism.
Has it not been oppressed? for ages and ages? and when that oppression of their own minority ended, they have started to oppress others.
"they're having better lives here than anywhere else" is a bad excuse. Especially when the reason that they can't have better lives anywhere else lies with you.
 






linderbak

Rookie
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Messages
16
Has it not been oppressed? for ages and ages? and when that oppression of their own minority ended, they have started to oppress others.
"they're having better lives here than anywhere else" is a bad excuse. Especially when the reason that they can't have better lives anywhere else lies with you.
Are you one of those people that likes to blame everything on the evil white man? And can you give me an example of a society where no one is oppressed? Where everyone is free to do whatever they want and the others will never stop them or limit their actions. If you guys started anarchy and I was living there, I'm pretty sure you'd be oppressing me. I have no trust in you as a group.
 






linderbak

Rookie
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Messages
16
Etagloc, you say 51% can take away the rights of the rest. How exactly does that happen in liberal democracy and how would the rights of 49% be protected in anarchy?
 






manama

Star
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,851
Are you one of those people that likes to blame everything on the evil white man? And can you give me an example of a society where no one is oppressed? Where everyone is free to do whatever they want and the others will never stop them or limit their actions. If you guys started anarchy and I was living there, I'm pretty sure you'd be oppressing me. I have no trust in you as a group.
what is "you"? What do you think i am?
 






linderbak

Rookie
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Messages
16
what is "you"? What do you think i am?
You indicated that the reason why many of the non-Western countries are doing terribly is because of the west, which isn't nearly the case to the degree many people say and in most cases is just victim mentality and inability to take responsibility for your own situation. That also applies to individuals in the Western world who fall into the minority category. I've had many of these debates over the last few years and in most cases my opponents fall into that category: people with victim mentality who like to blame all their problems on others and usually that evil perpetrator is the white man (sometimes men of all colors, sometimes also white women). So I'm simply asking are you one of those people so I'll know to just move on because this conversation won't go anywhere. I'm personally one of these white men who happens to be a business owner and as you can imagine not well accepted among one of these groups.
 






Lurker

Star
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,784
you're given freedom to do pretty much whatever you want, as long as it doesn't harm the society
I call BS on that.
Drinking a beer on the way home from work doesn't harm society. Growing a plant doesn't harm society. A felon voting doesn't harm society. Someone collecting rainwater doesn't harm society. Someone owning an automatic rifle doesn't harm society. Polygamy doesn't harm society. Paying for sex doesn't harm society. Selling produce/game meat/lemonade on the corner doesn't harm society. Are more examples needed?
 






manama

Star
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
3,851
You indicated that the reason why many of the non-Western countries are doing terribly is because of the west, which isn't nearly the case to the degree many people say and in most cases is just victim mentality and inability to take responsibility for your own situation. That also applies to individuals in the Western world who fall into the minority category. I've had many of these debates over the last few years and in most cases my opponents fall into that category: people with victim mentality who like to blame all their problems on others and usually that evil perpetrator is the white man (sometimes men of all colors, sometimes also white women). So I'm simply asking are you one of those people so I'll know to just move on because this conversation won't go anywhere. I'm personally one of these white men who happens to be a business owner and as you can imagine not well accepted among one of these groups.
 






Top