Do all religions lead us to God?

billy t

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Maybe you could define 'child', then everyone can move on instead of this tedious to-ing and fro-ing?

Anyways, currently, under the convention of the child a child is any human being under the age of 18.

Signatories.

ParticipantSignatureRatification, Acceptance(A), Accession(a), Succession(d)
Afghanistan27 Sep 199028 Mar 1994
Albania26 Jan 199027 Feb 1992
Algeria26 Jan 199016 Apr 1993
Andorra 2 Oct 1995 2 Jan 1996
Angola14 Feb 1990 5 Dec 1990
Antigua and Barbuda12 Mar 1991 5 Oct 1993
Argentina29 Jun 1990 4 Dec 1990
Armenia 23 Jun 1993 a
Australia22 Aug 199017 Dec 1990
Austria 326 Jan 1990 6 Aug 1992
Azerbaijan 13 Aug 1992 a
Bahamas30 Oct 199020 Feb 1991
Bahrain 13 Feb 1992 a
Bangladesh26 Jan 1990 3 Aug 1990
Barbados19 Apr 1990 9 Oct 1990
Belarus26 Jan 1990 1 Oct 1990
Belgium26 Jan 199016 Dec 1991
Belize 2 Mar 1990 2 May 1990
Benin25 Apr 1990 3 Aug 1990
Bhutan 4 Jun 1990 1 Aug 1990
Bolivia (Plurinational State of) 8 Mar 199026 Jun 1990
Bosnia and Herzegovina 4 1 Sep 1993 d
Botswana 14 Mar 1995 a
Brazil26 Jan 199024 Sep 1990
Brunei Darussalam 27 Dec 1995 a
Bulgaria31 May 1990 3 Jun 1991
Burkina Faso26 Jan 199031 Aug 1990
Burundi 8 May 199019 Oct 1990
Cabo Verde 4 Jun 1992 a
Cambodia 15 Oct 1992 a
Cameroon25 Sep 199011 Jan 1993
Canada28 May 199013 Dec 1991
Central African Republic30 Jul 199023 Apr 1992
Chad30 Sep 1990 2 Oct 1990
Chile26 Jan 199013 Aug 1990
China 5, 629 Aug 1990 2 Mar 1992
Colombia26 Jan 199028 Jan 1991
Comoros30 Sep 199022 Jun 1993
Congo 14 Oct 1993 a
Cook Islands 6 Jun 1997 a
Costa Rica26 Jan 199021 Aug 1990
Côte d'Ivoire26 Jan 1990 4 Feb 1991
Croatia 4 12 Oct 1992 d
Cuba26 Jan 199021 Aug 1991
Cyprus 5 Oct 1990 7 Feb 1991
Czech Republic 7 22 Feb 1993 d
Democratic People's Republic of Korea23 Aug 199021 Sep 1990
Democratic Republic of the Congo20 Mar 199027 Sep 1990
Denmark 826 Jan 199019 Jul 1991
Djibouti30 Sep 1990 6 Dec 1990
Dominica26 Jan 199013 Mar 1991
Dominican Republic 8 Aug 199011 Jun 1991
Ecuador26 Jan 199023 Mar 1990
Egypt 9 5 Feb 1990 6 Jul 1990
El Salvador26 Jan 199010 Jul 1990
Equatorial Guinea 15 Jun 1992 a
Eritrea20 Dec 1993 3 Aug 1994
Estonia 21 Oct 1991 a
Eswatini22 Aug 1990 7 Sep 1995
Ethiopia 14 May 1991 a
Fiji 2 Jul 199313 Aug 1993
Finland26 Jan 199020 Jun 1991
France26 Jan 1990 7 Aug 1990
Gabon26 Jan 1990 9 Feb 1994
Gambia 5 Feb 1990 8 Aug 1990
Georgia 2 Jun 1994 a
Germany 1026 Jan 1990 6 Mar 1992
Ghana29 Jan 1990 5 Feb 1990
Greece26 Jan 199011 May 1993
Grenada21 Feb 1990 5 Nov 1990
Guatemala26 Jan 1990 6 Jun 1990
Guinea 13 Jul 1990 a
Guinea-Bissau26 Jan 199020 Aug 1990
Guyana30 Sep 199014 Jan 1991
Haiti26 Jan 1990 8 Jun 1995
Holy See20 Apr 199020 Apr 1990
Honduras31 May 199010 Aug 1990
Hungary14 Mar 1990 7 Oct 1991
Iceland26 Jan 199028 Oct 1992
India 11 Dec 1992 a
Indonesia26 Jan 1990 5 Sep 1990
Iran (Islamic Republic of) 11 5 Sep 199113 Jul 1994
Iraq 15 Jun 1994 a
Ireland30 Sep 199028 Sep 1992
Israel 3 Jul 1990 3 Oct 1991
Italy26 Jan 1990 5 Sep 1991
Jamaica26 Jan 199014 May 1991
Japan21 Sep 199022 Apr 1994
Jordan29 Aug 199024 May 1991
Kazakhstan16 Feb 199412 Aug 1994
Kenya26 Jan 199030 Jul 1990
Kiribati 11 Dec 1995 a
Kuwait 7 Jun 199021 Oct 1991
Kyrgyzstan 7 Oct 1994 a
Lao People's Democratic Republic 8 May 1991 a
Latvia 14 Apr 1992 a
Lebanon26 Jan 199014 May 1991
Lesotho21 Aug 199010 Mar 1992
Liberia26 Apr 1990 4 Jun 1993
Libya 15 Apr 1993 a
Liechtenstein 1230 Sep 199022 Dec 1995
Lithuania 31 Jan 1992 a
Luxembourg21 Mar 1990 7 Mar 1994
Madagascar19 Apr 199019 Mar 1991
Malawi 2 Jan 1991 a
Malaysia 17 Feb 1995 a
Maldives21 Aug 199011 Feb 1991
Mali26 Jan 199020 Sep 1990
Malta26 Jan 199030 Sep 1990
Marshall Islands14 Apr 1993 4 Oct 1993
Mauritania26 Jan 199016 May 1991
Mauritius 26 Jul 1990 a
Mexico26 Jan 199021 Sep 1990
Micronesia (Federated States of) 5 May 1993 a
Monaco 21 Jun 1993 a
Mongolia26 Jan 1990 5 Jul 1990
Montenegro 13 23 Oct 2006 d
Morocco26 Jan 199021 Jun 1993
Mozambique30 Sep 199026 Apr 1994
Myanmar 15 Jul 1991 a
Namibia26 Sep 199030 Sep 1990
Nauru 27 Jul 1994 a
Nepal26 Jan 199014 Sep 1990
Netherlands 1426 Jan 1990 6 Feb 1995 A
New Zealand 15 1 Oct 1990 6 Apr 1993
Nicaragua 6 Feb 1990 5 Oct 1990
Niger26 Jan 199030 Sep 1990
Nigeria26 Jan 199019 Apr 1991
Niue 20 Dec 1995 a
North Macedonia 4, 16 2 Dec 1993 d
Norway26 Jan 1990 8 Jan 1991
Oman 9 Dec 1996 a
Pakistan20 Sep 199012 Nov 1990
Palau 4 Aug 1995 a
Panama26 Jan 199012 Dec 1990
Papua New Guinea30 Sep 1990 2 Mar 1993
Paraguay 4 Apr 199025 Sep 1990
Peru26 Jan 1990 4 Sep 1990
Philippines26 Jan 199021 Aug 1990
Poland26 Jan 1990 7 Jun 1991
Portugal 526 Jan 199021 Sep 1990
Qatar 8 Dec 1992 3 Apr 1995
Republic of Korea 1725 Sep 199020 Nov 1991
Republic of Moldova 26 Jan 1993 a
Romania26 Jan 199028 Sep 1990
Russian Federation26 Jan 199016 Aug 1990
Rwanda26 Jan 199024 Jan 1991
Samoa30 Sep 199029 Nov 1994
San Marino 25 Nov 1991 a
Sao Tome and Principe 14 May 1991 a
Saudi Arabia 26 Jan 1996 a
Senegal26 Jan 199031 Jul 1990
Serbia 4 12 Mar 2001 d
Seychelles 7 Sep 1990 a
Sierra Leone13 Feb 199018 Jun 1990
Singapore 5 Oct 1995 a
Slovakia 7 28 May 1993 d
Slovenia 4 6 Jul 1992 d
Solomon Islands 10 Apr 1995 a
Somalia 9 May 2002 1 Oct 2015
South Africa29 Jan 199316 Jun 1995
South Sudan 23 Jan 2015 a
Spain26 Jan 1990 6 Dec 1990
Sri Lanka26 Jan 199012 Jul 1991
St. Kitts and Nevis26 Jan 199024 Jul 1990
St. Lucia30 Sep 199016 Jun 1993
St. Vincent and the Grenadines20 Sep 199326 Oct 1993
State of Palestine 2 Apr 2014 a
Sudan24 Jul 1990 3 Aug 1990
Suriname26 Jan 1990 1 Mar 1993
Sweden26 Jan 199029 Jun 1990
Switzerland 1 May 199124 Feb 1997
Syrian Arab Republic18 Sep 199015 Jul 1993
Tajikistan 26 Oct 1993 a
Thailand 27 Mar 1992 a
Timor-Leste 16 Apr 2003 a
Togo26 Jan 1990 1 Aug 1990
Tonga 6 Nov 1995 a
Trinidad and Tobago30 Sep 1990 5 Dec 1991
Tunisia26 Feb 199030 Jan 1992
Turkey14 Sep 1990 4 Apr 1995
Turkmenistan 20 Sep 1993 a
Tuvalu 22 Sep 1995 a
Uganda17 Aug 199017 Aug 1990
Ukraine21 Feb 199028 Aug 1991
United Arab Emirates 3 Jan 1997 a
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland 6, 18, 19, 2019 Apr 199016 Dec 1991
United Republic of Tanzania 1 Jun 199010 Jun 1991
United States of America16 Feb 1995
Uruguay26 Jan 199020 Nov 1990
Uzbekistan 29 Jun 1994 a
Vanuatu30 Sep 1990 7 Jul 1993
Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of)26 Jan 199013 Sep 1990
Viet Nam26 Jan 199028 Feb 1990
Yemen 2113 Feb 1990 1 May 1991
Zambia30 Sep 1990 6 Dec 1991
Zimbabwe 8 Mar 199011 Sep 1990



Many countries on that list have set the 'age of consent' at below 18 years meaning that they are, in fact, promoting paedophillia. Allthough to be perfectly fair, a lot of those countries had already set the 'age of consent' before they became signatories. But again, in fairness, upon becoming signatories they should have reset the 'age of consent' to 18.
I have already defined it. I am not going to repeat myself.
 






billy t

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Yes, i read it. So you have more knowledge then the Creator is what you're basically saying.

Seems kinda obvious to me that if it was harmful teenagers would not be able to have children. I'm gonna side with the source of knowledge on this one.


What is it with Christians and the victim card?


Once again, why does a teenager menstruate? Ya know its funny. In Islam smoking cigarettes is haram, drinking alcohol. Even gambling is forbidden. Why? Because these things all bring harm. Yet even today me and you both (claim) to worship a deity who gives 13 and 14 year old girls the ability to produce children. Why is that?

I don't know how i even got into this conversation, i am hardly an advocate for child marriage, however men and woman were DESIGNED to start families at 12, 13 years old. If God wanted people to wait for 18, puberty would not start until 18. Period (no pun intended).


Spoken like a true Islamaphob. There are actually multiple Muslim woman here Grace. Why don't you ask them how oppressed they are?

Funny, i just mentioned you are only harping on this age thing as a window to attack Islam, exactly like that comment you just made. Whats the fastest growing religion on the planet Grace? Go ahead, look it up, we will wait.....

And are the convents mostly men, or women?
Haters gotta hate, right Grace?


I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. (Timothy 2:12)
Crazy how contradictory your book is.


Why don't you want sources Grace? Does it make it difficult to shove those fingers into those ears? Here, you can hear it from the horses mouths.


The Propher Muhammad is also mentioned in your Bible. I'd source it but we both know you'll ignore it, just like you have ignored that 7 minute video.

So saying Muslim men hit their wives is not an attack at Islam? Would you like to see some videos on abusive Christian men?

The prophet of Islam (saw) said the best of men are those who are best to their wives. But this doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

The truth is 999 humans out of every 1000 will end up in hell. Hell is crated for a purpose and many are most deserving, such as those who harm children. However the greatest sin, far beyond r*pe and murder is worshiping anything or anyone other then God. What is the 1st commandment Grace?

Sadly many won't realize this until judgement day, when Jesus says, "get away from me you workers of lawlessness".



thanks.
Also the studies that say child birth at a young age is more harmful are flawed. Most woman who give birth at a young age live in countries where birth complications are common across woman of all ages due to malnutrition. Today it is usually woman who are living in bad enviornments who give birth young. Young woman rarely make a conscientious decision to givr birth at a young age. Moroever, woman who give birth at a young age today are many times addicted to alcohol or drugs hence these factors must be accounted for and they aren't. I have came across studies which say this.

It is never claimed in any species that child birth at a young age is harmful yet in humans it is and God seemingly made a mistake in designing us. Strange logic.
 






billy t

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Consider this. Many are saying Muslims are wrong on this issue yet they can not define child or explain why young woman menstruate.
 






arhur12

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Yes, i read it. So you have more knowledge then the Creator is what you're basically saying.

Seems kinda obvious to me that if it was harmful teenagers would not be able to have children. I'm gonna side with the source of knowledge on this one.


What is it with Christians and the victim card?


Once again, why does a teenager menstruate? Ya know its funny. In Islam smoking cigarettes is haram, drinking alcohol. Even gambling is forbidden. Why? Because these things all bring harm. Yet even today me and you both (claim) to worship a deity who gives 13 and 14 year old girls the ability to produce children. Why is that?

I don't know how i even got into this conversation, i am hardly an advocate for child marriage, however men and woman were DESIGNED to start families at 12, 13 years old. If God wanted people to wait for 18, puberty would not start until 18. Period (no pun intended).


Spoken like a true Islamaphob. There are actually multiple Muslim woman here Grace. Why don't you ask them how oppressed they are?

Funny, i just mentioned you are only harping on this age thing as a window to attack Islam, exactly like that comment you just made. Whats the fastest growing religion on the planet Grace? Go ahead, look it up, we will wait.....

And are the convents mostly men, or women?
Haters gotta hate, right Grace?


I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. (Timothy 2:12)
Crazy how contradictory your book is.


Why don't you want sources Grace? Does it make it difficult to shove those fingers into those ears? Here, you can hear it from the horses mouths.


The Propher Muhammad is also mentioned in your Bible. I'd source it but we both know you'll ignore it, just like you have ignored that 7 minute video.

So saying Muslim men hit their wives is not an attack at Islam? Would you like to see some videos on abusive Christian men?

The prophet of Islam (saw) said the best of men are those who are best to their wives. But this doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

The truth is 999 humans out of every 1000 will end up in hell. Hell is crated for a purpose and many are most deserving, such as those who harm children. However the greatest sin, far beyond r*pe and murder is worshiping anything or anyone other then God. What is the 1st commandment Grace?

Sadly many won't realize this until judgement day, when Jesus says, "get away from me you workers of lawlessness".



thanks.
Salam Brother/Sister I agree with most of your points but Please you don't have to call her an islamophobe even if she is one at heart as a woman I can understand where she is coming from. I am a Muslim Woman myself but I cannot deny that tons of Muslim men are abusive towards their wives and do not provide them their religious rights. And I am not brainwashed by the western cultures I have seen it with my own eyes how my own mother and sisters including myself have been mistreated by so called Muslim men who claim to follow islam. There is no need to compare them to christian men because firstly its not going to solve the problem of Muslim women being mistreated by their husbands and men in their lives. This is not a part of Islam Islam does not oppress women but Muslims do oppress women and unless we acknowledge this fact we cannot solve this problem. We are going to be judged by outsiders by our character and if our character does not reflect what we believe than their will be fingers pointed at us.
 






Daze

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For? Have i offended your sensibilities? And fine ban me silence me.
Gonna play dumb now? I said people can report the guy calling Islams prophet a pedo. Which somehow you found funny with the laugh emote. There are no sensibilities here, just facts.

Why you think this has anything to do with banning or silencing you.. speaks to your intelligence.
 






arhur12

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Consider this. Many are saying Muslims are wrong on this issue yet they can not define child or explain why young woman menstruate.
I understand your points but the problem is a young woman of age 9-10 years old today is very different from a woman of that age in the past even if we consider a child of 9-10 years as being eligible for marriage the problem is most children of that age today are not "mature" or "responsible" and they will not be able to lead a successful married life if they are married at a young age like that. Child birth is not an issue technological advances have made pregnancies and child birth much more safe than they were in the past but once the child is born would the young girl be able to fulfill her duties as a mother? would she who herself is immature be able to raise a child? so even according to islam it would not be preferable "Today" to marry off young children as soon as they reach puberty. About p***philia we cannot call it p***philia if it is consensual because then it would not be considered abuse so The argument that Prophet Muhammad was a......... is baseless anyways because Ayesha R.A did not feel abused at all these practices were necessary for our survival in the past and these were the norms so we cannot judge people from 7th century A.D by today's standards.
 






Daze

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Salam Brother/Sister I agree with most of your points but Please you don't have to call her an islamophobe even if she is one at heart as a woman I can understand where she is coming from. I am a Muslim Woman myself but I cannot deny that tons of Muslim men are abusive towards their wives and do not provide them their religious rights. And I am not brainwashed by the western cultures I have seen it with my own eyes how my own mother and sisters including myself have been mistreated by so called Muslim men who claim to follow islam. There is no need to compare them to christian men because firstly its not going to solve the problem of Muslim women being mistreated by their husbands and men in their lives. This is not a part of Islam Islam does not oppress women but Muslims do oppress women and unless we acknowledge this fact we cannot solve this problem. We are going to be judged by outsiders by our character and if our character does not reflect what we believe than their will be fingers pointed at us.
Wa alaykum as-salaam okti. I am a brother. From where i sit a Muslim is one who follows the Quran and sunnah to the best of their abilities. Islam is not a race nor a culture. For instance you can't be gay and be Muslim as they contradict. You can not be abusive your family and claim to follow the rosul.

Are there abusive Muslim men? Out of 2 billion people i am sure there are. But the question is, does Islam allow this? Do you think Allah likes oppressive husbands? Can you see the Prophet or his companions hitting their wives?

You can't judge a religion by those who claim to represent it. You and i both know there will be Muslims in hell. These abusive men you speak of are likely among them.
 






A Freeman

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You can't judge a religion by those who claim to represent it.
What criteria other than by our actions/works (fruits) should we be judge by?

Matthew 7:16-20
7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into The Fire.
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

You and i both know there will be Muslims in hell.
Proving the term "Muslim" today, just like "Christian" is a misnomer. Anyone following Christ's True Teachings, and learning to joyfully submit to God's Will won't find themselves in hell-fire (The Fire) on Judgment Day. Anyone and everyone who is still part of one of Satan's sects/cults/organized religions though will find themselves in The Fire, just as we've been repeatedly warned throughout the Old Covenant, New Covenant and the Koran (Quran).
 






arhur12

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Didn't miss it, I wanted to mention it before he brought it up. I wrote it's not a good idea to have baby before 15, guess you didn't read my explanation why, carefully. I believe child birth and pregnancy before 15 was one of the factors behind high mother and child mortality as well as max 40 years life span. If girl wasn't able to grow well and healthy because she had children even at the age when she herself was still growing, and then had 6 children in a row, I'm not surprised she lacked basic nutrients and worked herself to grave so early.

Actually why would I expect a man to be able to imagine what must woman go through, men only care about how soon they can have a gril, but many arrogantly and selfishly don't care what comes during next 9 months and what consequences it has for the woman. 20 was probably always ideal age, but I'm not going to bore you with medical info you wouldn't read and probably wouldn't even care about. Before flood people lived hundreds of years, and even after flood for a long time people lived pretty long (more than 100) so I guess waiting to 20s wasn't problem for them. The fact that at least in the last 2000 years lifespan was at best 40 years is very sad and I understand why it pushed the age of pregnancy to such a young age. But still, it doesn't mean it's ideal and good for the mother.

Btw, when I see how are women treated in countries with Islam as main religion, an idea to convert to such religion doesn't even cross my mind. Husband has right to beat his wife according to your holy book... no thanks.

"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,"
"With all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."


As much as I know Aisha was 9 yo during marriage consummation, and puberty usually starts around years 10 or 11, so Mary wasn't at the same spot as Aisha, but ok. I admit I'm surprised that even in Jewish traditions girls were married even at age 12. But I'm tired, I'll not comment on this anymore. If you feel urgency to bring up 12 yo Mary again, please read first part of this comment again - I can understand why so young, but it's not a good idea.

I don't know a single reputable Bible scholar or apologist who believe Muhammad was prophet of God. Don't bother with the sources. I've heard Muslims desperately wanted to find prophecy about him in OT, but couldn't, hence one reason to call Bible corrupted.

You once wrote you wanted to save me. I don't "attack" Islam because I'm bored and want to fight with you. My wish is also to save as many as possible from doctrines of devils. I'm sure about my faith, you are sure about yours, I don't see us moving anywhere in discussions, only to call each other names at the end and making a good entertainment for others. Call me coward or however you want, I don't see it fruitful to continue this discussion, and I don't have time for it.

Bye, hope the broken leg will heal well and soon :)
I am not going to preach Islam to you but I will try to answer all of your questions respectfully
Firstly I agree with you about child marriage not being preferable in today's society but we have to look at the context back in the 7th century and even in Prophet Jesus's (peace be upon him) time it was not considered wrong it was the norm. You said that 20s is the ideal age of marriage I will agree with you on that but you have to understand that people at that times were not living in "ideal conditions" their was no concept of education no choice of careers/professions life was hard and some practices which are considered wrong today were necessary for survival at that time. I would also like to add most Muslims were poor our own Prophet Muhammad S.A.W lived on a diet of dates and water mostly which would not be considered a "Healthy or sustainable diet" today. Child labor was allowed as well and even Islam did not forbid it Prophet Muhammad S.A.W was 12 when he would go with his uncle on expeditions to Syria for trade and he was also a shepherd at that time this would also be considered child labor and abuse by today's standards. One of the biggest enemies of Islam was killed by 2 brothers of 14-15 years which means it was perfectly normal to send young boys going through puberty to war at that time again no parents today would agree to this but it was necessary for survival at that time. I don't consider Prophet Muhammad S.A.W's marriage to Ayesha as ..........because it was consensual according to traditions and she was proud and happy about it but I would also not agree with Muslims advocating or supporting child marriage today because most child brides of today are "forced" into marriage by their parents and abuse of young girls is common and if they agree to it because they want it then their would be nothing wrong with marrying a child to an old man even today. Alot of Muslims fail to understand that even if child marriage is not prohibited it would not be preferable in modern society because a child of 9-10 years today is very different from a child of 9-10 years in the past. In the past we had no concept of education or career/professions and most work which brought money to the house was hard labor which required physical strength and women were not deemed fit for that job so as harsh as it may sound the only purpose of young girl was to bear children and take care of the house but things are different now we have more opportunities today and how we raise our children is also different from in the past and a young girl of 9-10 years today is not eligible to be a mother she may be functionally a complete woman but she is not "responsible" or "mature" and she would not be able to fulfill her duties as a mother or wife responsibly today.
About Muslim women being mistreated That is not from Islam it is a problem of Muslims not being able to act on what they believe in and that is not a Muslim problem because sadly most Christians and jews do not follow their religious teachings as well it is a flaw of our character A Muslim man is only allowed to beat his wife in case of "adultery" according to the Quran
"Men are caretakers of women, since Allah has made some of them excel the others, and because of the wealth they have spent. So, the righteous women are obedient, (and) guard (the property and honor of their husbands) in (their) absence with the protection given by Allah. As for women of whom you fear rebellion, convince them, and leave them apart in beds, and beat them. Then, if they obey you, do not seek a way against them. Surely, Allah is the Highest, the Greatest." An-Nisa 34
notice in the ayah it says that "if they obey you do not seek a way against them" to make sure that men do not use this against women sadly some Muslim men choose to ignore the teachings of Quran and use this to justify wife beating but that is a problem of their own character.
Prophet Muhammad S.A.W did not beat his wives and none of the companions of the Prophet S.A.W did that and if Muslim men were following his sunnah they would not be doing this either.
About the man being given more rights he is also given more responsibilities as well he is responsible for all finances of his wife,children,old parents, his unmarried sister if they are orphans and any other helpless woman in his close family while a woman even if she earns her own income has no financial obligations and the man must pay for her he has no right to take anything from his wife's money and if he does not fulfill these responsibilities than a woman does not need to be obedient to her husband. A man is not allowed to stare at a woman more than once

Jarir bin `Abdullah (May Allah be pleased with him) said: I asked the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) about (the Islamic ruling on) accidental glance (i.e., at a woman one is not Islamically allowed to look at) and he ordered me to turn my eyes away.
[Muslim].
about loving your wife
. Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
The most complete of the believers in faith, is the one with the best character. And the best of you are those who are best to their women.”(At-Tirmidhi and authenticated by Al-Albani)

So the problem is with us Muslims who do not follow Islam and fail to acknowledge our mistakes and as I said it is a flaw of our character which we should overcome but because we are not perfect creatures you cannot single out Muslims for not following Islam because alot of christians and Jews are guilty of the same.
I won't talk about Prophet Muhammad S.A.W being mentioned in the Bible because that is your personal belief just as you believe in divinity of Jesus Christ we believe that Prophet Muhammad S.A.W was the final Prophet from God you can believe what you want and let us believe what we want.
 






arhur12

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Wa alaykum as-salaam okti. I am a brother. From where i sit a Muslim is one who follows the Quran and sunnah to the best of their abilities. Islam is not a race nor a culture. For instance you can't be gay and be Muslim as they contradict. You can not be abusive your family and claim to follow the rosul.

Are there abusive Muslim men? Out of 2 billion people i am sure there are. But the question is, does Islam allow this? Do you think Allah likes oppressive husbands? Can you see the Prophet or his companions hitting their wives?

You can't judge a religion by those who claim to represent it. You and i both know there will be Muslims in hell. These abusive men you speak of are likely among them.
Brother I am a Muslim and I agree with you but non-muslims who have no desire to study Islam will judge us by our character not our beliefs and we need to be working on being better representatives of our religion. May Allah bless you
 






billy t

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I understand your points but the problem is a young woman of age 9-10 years old today is very different from a woman of that age in the past even if we consider a child of 9-10 years as being eligible for marriage the problem is most children of that age today are not "mature" or "responsible" and they will not be able to lead a successful married life if they are married at a young age like that. Child birth is not an issue technological advances have made pregnancies and child birth much more safe than they were in the past but once the child is born would the young girl be able to fulfill her duties as a mother? would she who herself is immature be able to raise a child? so even according to islam it would not be preferable "Today" to marry off young children as soon as they reach puberty. About p***philia we cannot call it p***philia if it is consensual because then it would not be considered abuse so The argument that Prophet Muhammad was a......... is baseless anyways because Ayesha R.A did not feel abused at all these practices were necessary for our survival in the past and these were the norms so we cannot judge people from 7th century A.D by today's standards.
Exactly, which is why I added that they should be ready for marriage hence mature. My problem is when people put a subjective number on it.
 






billy t

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Wa alaykum as-salaam okti. I am a brother. From where i sit a Muslim is one who follows the Quran and sunnah to the best of their abilities. Islam is not a race nor a culture. For instance you can't be gay and be Muslim as they contradict. You can not be abusive your family and claim to follow the rosul.

Are there abusive Muslim men? Out of 2 billion people i am sure there are. But the question is, does Islam allow this? Do you think Allah likes oppressive husbands? Can you see the Prophet or his companions hitting their wives?

You can't judge a religion by those who claim to represent it. You and i both know there will be Muslims in hell. These abusive men you speak of are likely among them.
Not sure by what you meant with "For instance you can't be gay and be Muslim as they contradict" akhi. HayaakAllah. Someone who believes in Islaam and falls into the disgusting sin of homosexuality are still Muslim but they are involved in a great sin. They only become non Muslim if they say that homosexuality is allowed. This is what separates Ahlul Sunnah from the khawaarij. Ahlul sunnah do not consider any sin to invalidate ones Islaam except for shirk. BaarakAllahu feek.
 






Last edited:

Maldarker

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Gonna play dumb now? I said people can report the guy calling Islams prophet a pedo. Which somehow you found funny with the laugh emote. There are no sensibilities here, just facts.

Why you think this has anything to do with banning or silencing you.. speaks to your intelligence.
I think you got me mixed up with some one else actually... I haha the comment you made about beef i agree thought your comment on it was funny. As for the ped** thing i don't have a comment on that. Not my place to judge that. Times where different and honestly not going to disparage any prophets. As for demonized hindu i agree with u that's where i made my comment about ban me for calling them genetic mistakes because that is
what the deities look like imo.
 






AmazingGrace

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Why don't you want sources Grace? Does it make it difficult to shove those fingers into those ears? Here, you can hear it from the horses mouths.

I'll have to watch the whole interview, this video mentioned only one statement that means absolutely nothing unless he clearly explain reasoning behind it and support it with evidence.
The more I learn, the more I see that Christian doctrine is as far from Islamic doctrine, as is the west from the east. Maybe Muhammad was a prophet, but I don't think a prophet of Christian God.

So saying Muslim men hit their wives is not an attack at Islam? Would you like to see some videos on abusive Christian men?
I didn't wrote "Muslim men hit their wives", but that your holy book allows you to hit your wife. It's disturbing to say the least. And it's not about people, but about the rule book.

The prophet of Islam (saw) said the best of men are those who are best to their wives.
Nice.

The truth is 999 humans out of every 1000 will end up in hell. Hell is crated for a purpose and many are most deserving, such as those who harm children. However the greatest sin, far beyond r*pe and murder is worshiping anything or anyone other then God. What is the 1st commandment Grace?
Honestly? I don't know what I would be doing in the garden of pleasures for eternity, I would get bored quickly. I like to work, explore and learn, so new heavens and new earth with God ruling it from the New Jerusalem sound much more exciting :)

Sadly many won't realize this until judgement day, when Jesus says, "get away from me you workers of lawlessness".
To put it more into context:
"On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

You are not interpreting this correctly. Jesus is talking here about people who claimed to be Christians, but really were not. As Paul Washer explains: "there are all sorts of things going on in this world today in the name of Jesus Christ that have absolutely nothing to do with the name of Jesus Christ and there are a lot of people claiming relationship with Jesus Christ that have no relationship whatsoever with Jesus Christ."

Jesus doesn't blame people here for worshiping him as God, not even remotely. I would expect Him to word it differently in such case.

I'm afraid it's sadly going to be you who will hear similar words from Jesus if don't come back. Or rather something along the lines "why did you left me? Out of love I payed a high price for your salvation, for your sins to be washed away, for your garment to be white as snow. Why did you harden your heart against me?"
 






Daze

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I think you got me mixed up with some one else actually... I haha the comment you made about beef i agree thought your comment on it was funny. As for the ped** thing i don't have a comment on that. Not my place to judge that. Times where different and honestly not going to disparage any prophets. As for demonized hindu i agree with u that's where i made my comment about ban me for calling them genetic mistakes because that is
what the deities look like imo.
I see, my apologies then, i thought you had a different intent.
 






AmazingGrace

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I am not going to preach Islam to you but I will try to answer all of your questions respectfully
Firstly I agree with you about child marriage not being preferable in today's society but we have to look at the context back in the 7th century and even in Prophet Jesus's (peace be upon him) time it was not considered wrong it was the norm. You said that 20s is the ideal age of marriage I will agree with you on that but you have to understand that people at that times were not living in "ideal conditions" their was no concept of education no choice of careers/professions life was hard and some practices which are considered wrong today were necessary for survival at that time. I would also like to add most Muslims were poor our own Prophet Muhammad S.A.W lived on a diet of dates and water mostly which would not be considered a "Healthy or sustainable diet" today. Child labor was allowed as well and even Islam did not forbid it Prophet Muhammad S.A.W was 12 when he would go with his uncle on expeditions to Syria for trade and he was also a shepherd at that time this would also be considered child labor and abuse by today's standards. One of the biggest enemies of Islam was killed by 2 brothers of 14-15 years which means it was perfectly normal to send young boys going through puberty to war at that time again no parents today would agree to this but it was necessary for survival at that time. I don't consider Prophet Muhammad S.A.W's marriage to Ayesha as ..........because it was consensual according to traditions and she was proud and happy about it but I would also not agree with Muslims advocating or supporting child marriage today because most child brides of today are "forced" into marriage by their parents and abuse of young girls is common and if they agree to it because they want it then their would be nothing wrong with marrying a child to an old man even today. Alot of Muslims fail to understand that even if child marriage is not prohibited it would not be preferable in modern society because a child of 9-10 years today is very different from a child of 9-10 years in the past. In the past we had no concept of education or career/professions and most work which brought money to the house was hard labor which required physical strength and women were not deemed fit for that job so as harsh as it may sound the only purpose of young girl was to bear children and take care of the house but things are different now we have more opportunities today and how we raise our children is also different from in the past and a young girl of 9-10 years today is not eligible to be a mother she may be functionally a complete woman but she is not "responsible" or "mature" and she would not be able to fulfill her duties as a mother or wife responsibly today.
About Muslim women being mistreated That is not from Islam it is a problem of Muslims not being able to act on what they believe in and that is not a Muslim problem because sadly most Christians and jews do not follow their religious teachings as well it is a flaw of our character A Muslim man is only allowed to beat his wife in case of "adultery" according to the Quran
"Men are caretakers of women, since Allah has made some of them excel the others, and because of the wealth they have spent. So, the righteous women are obedient, (and) guard (the property and honor of their husbands) in (their) absence with the protection given by Allah. As for women of whom you fear rebellion, convince them, and leave them apart in beds, and beat them. Then, if they obey you, do not seek a way against them. Surely, Allah is the Highest, the Greatest." An-Nisa 34
notice in the ayah it says that "if they obey you do not seek a way against them" to make sure that men do not use this against women sadly some Muslim men choose to ignore the teachings of Quran and use this to justify wife beating but that is a problem of their own character.
Prophet Muhammad S.A.W did not beat his wives and none of the companions of the Prophet S.A.W did that and if Muslim men were following his sunnah they would not be doing this either.
About the man being given more rights he is also given more responsibilities as well he is responsible for all finances of his wife,children,old parents, his unmarried sister if they are orphans and any other helpless woman in his close family while a woman even if she earns her own income has no financial obligations and the man must pay for her he has no right to take anything from his wife's money and if he does not fulfill these responsibilities than a woman does not need to be obedient to her husband. A man is not allowed to stare at a woman more than once

Jarir bin `Abdullah (May Allah be pleased with him) said: I asked the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) about (the Islamic ruling on) accidental glance (i.e., at a woman one is not Islamically allowed to look at) and he ordered me to turn my eyes away.
[Muslim].
about loving your wife
. Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
The most complete of the believers in faith, is the one with the best character. And the best of you are those who are best to their women.”(At-Tirmidhi and authenticated by Al-Albani)

So the problem is with us Muslims who do not follow Islam and fail to acknowledge our mistakes and as I said it is a flaw of our character which we should overcome but because we are not perfect creatures you cannot single out Muslims for not following Islam because alot of christians and Jews are guilty of the same.
I won't talk about Prophet Muhammad S.A.W being mentioned in the Bible because that is your personal belief just as you believe in divinity of Jesus Christ we believe that Prophet Muhammad S.A.W was the final Prophet from God you can believe what you want and let us believe what we want.
Thank you for your kind response :)
I agree that nobody is perfect in following rules of their faith, even when we try our best.
That's why I'm really glad I don't have to rely on my works to go to heaven.
 






Maldarker

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I see, my apologies then, i thought you had a different intent.
Nope and apology excepted. Like i said will not debate or comment on that topic because A: it shouldn't be in this thread anyway. B: times where different not my place to judge and i do believe enough has been said about that.
 






Daze

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Not sure by what you meant with "For instance you can't be gay and be Muslim as they contradict" akhi. HayaakAllah. Someone who believes in Islaam and falls into the disgusting sin of homosexuality are still Muslim but they are involved in a great sin. They only become non Muslim if they say that homosexuality is allowed. This is what separates Ahlul Sunnah from the khawaarij. Ahlul sunnah do not consider any sin to invalidate ones Islaam except for shirk. BaarakAllahu feek.
There is no contest when comparing Islamic knowledge as yours greatly exceeds mine.

Many people i see today (i do live in the US) are fake Muslims. I know some who don't pray, others who don't fast in Ramadan. I have a co-worker who never misses a fard fast and he even does many nafl fasts. However his prayer is very hit and miss.

There are some who drink and so on... Whether men sleeping with men removes one from Islam.. idk as I have no evidence. Yet making it public and advertising it is more haram then a pork sandwich.


However to my knowledge there are many things that can remove one from Islam. Such as mocking the religion, telling lies, not praying, ect.

If a brother is married to a man, is his ibadah accepted? Allahu alim.

Idk, if i actually knew a gay Muslim i would make every effort to show him the error of his ways.
 






Tidal

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How is it possible to be a military forum moderator and wargame champion, and not know what a false flag military operation is?
The reason Israel wants (and pays) Hamas to attack Israel, is so Israel has a ready-made excuse to bomb the Palestinians.

That's just another consp-theory, you'll be telling us next that the Israelis did 9/11.. :p
As a Christian, I don't much like jews or muslims or any other Jesus-rejecters and am therefore strictly neutral, but we regularly see on the news Hamas firing rockets out of Gaza, 2000 in the latest flare up.
Militarily Hamas are wasting their time if they think it'll make Israel surrender, Hitler tried it by bombarding London with bombers, flying bombs and rockets but it didn't work.

 






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