Even before Christ died & resurrected, the OT saints were still saved by faith, and went up to Heaven when they died....for example:
“And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”......Genesis 5:24 KJB
^^^Compare that with:
“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”.......Hebrews 11:5 KJB
“Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?”.....Ecclesiastes 3:21 KJB
“And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.”..........2 Kings 2:11 KJB
So these are both OT saints—Enoch & Elijah. It clearly says the spirit of man goes UPWARD; Elijah went UP INTO HEAVEN.
How can that be if they supposedly went DOWN into someplace called Abraham’s Bosom or Paradise which are supposedly DOWN in the center of the earth?
Christ never went to hell. The Scripture that most misunderstand is in 1Peter 3:18-20. The correct understanding is that Christ (through Noah) preached to those (who at that time) were disobedient while the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah (for them to repent) While the Ark was being prepared. Noah preached the Gospel for a hundred years before the flood. When Christ gave up the His Spirit, He was in paradise for three days.(Luke 23:43)The biggest problem that I have with the idea that Jesus went to hell after he died, to pay for our sins, is that it goes against the words that Jesus spoke right before he died.
Yes it is. The Greek word In this verse that is translated “hell” is Tartarus vs Gehenna in the verses that Jesus talks about “Hell”. Though he is not really talking about hell but the valley of Hinnom outside the city of Jerusalem.Still, no mention of Tartarus.
Jesus never said anyone goes to a place called “Abraham’s Bosom“ !! EVER.What does it say about the Spirit that God gives to man in the Word of God?
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Do you believe that man is made of Flesh, Spirit and Soul?
What do you think returns to God, because the Scripture makes it clear that ALL the Spirit returns to God. Clearly Scripture can not be talking about ALL MEN go upward to God correct?
That is because the Spirit spoken of in Ecc and in Gen is what gives man life and not the Soul which is who we are, the Soul went either to Abrahams Bosom or the part of the Grave for the Lost, usually referred to as Hell.
As for Elijah and Enoch here is an article that explains it in more detail than I care to, again believe what you want, but Abrahams Bosom is what Jesus said existed and I will go with that as opposed to your created ideology of it somehow being Heaven and Abraham comforting him or something like that...
Claire doesn't accept the Greek manuscripts as the Bible, apparently.Yes it is. The Greek word In this verse that is translated “hell” is Tartarus vs Gehenna in the verses that Jesus talks about “Hell”. Though he is not really talking about hell but the valley of Hinnom outside the city of Jerusalem.
Jesus never said anyone goes to a place called “Abraham’s Bosom“ !! EVER.
WHERE are you getting this from?!
Certainly not the Bible.
You need to compare Scripture with Scripture.
You have been quoted the verse multiple times, straight from Jesus mouth, I seriously do no understand why you keep making this statement that Jesus nor the Bible speaks about Abrahams Bosom.Jesus never said anyone goes to a place called “Abraham’s Bosom“ !! EVER.
I only find Jesus speaking about “Hell”, NOT “Abraham’s Bosom”.You have been quoted the verse multiple times, straight from Jesus mouth, I seriously do no understand why you keep making this statement that Jesus nor the Bible speaks about Abrahams Bosom.
It is your choice to believe or not believe what we have stated concerning Abrahams Bosom but it is being intellectually dishonest and disingenuous to keep saying that Jesus nor the Bible speak about it.
You do not have to agree with our interpretation, that is fine. I obviously do not agree with your interpretation of the verses and events whatsoever. The idea that it is speaking of Heaven and Lazarus is being comforted on the Bosom of Abraham is reading so incredibly much into the Scriptures, that I personally can not accept it as a legit interpretation.
I instead believe what the text state, which lines up with the other Scriptures we have quoted and the actual Greek Holy Spirit Breathed underlying Text.
Again your choice, IDC what you want to believe concerning this, it doesnt affect my or your Salvation so have at it, believe that people went to Heaven before Jesus did, and that Heaven and Hell are right next to each other thats on you...
This is the fourth or fifth time this verse has been quoted to you in response to your claim that "Abraham's bosom" appears nowhere in the Bible. Read the whole passage, please, and then make your case that there is no such thing.I only find Jesus speaking about “Hell”, NOT “Abraham’s Bosom”.