Did Jesus burn in hell for three days?

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#81
Not at all.

However, what I DO have is unwavering FAITH that God can and DID preserve His perfect Word as He promised.

I also have FAITH that, God, Who CREATED all languages, btw, can & DID translate His Word perfectly into other languages (including English, which is the most widely spoken language throughout the world) so that people of all nations who are not native in Greek & Hebrew could ALSO confidently read & study God’s Word on their own—without relying on an interpreter or clergyman to “teach” them the Bible.

The Holy Spirit is the only teacher we need, and the only one that is truly trustworthy.
Using @Claire Rousseau 's reasoning and logic (or lack thereof) one must come to the conclusion that because English is the most widely spoken language in the world (even though it's really not) God needed the translators of the King James Bible to correct all the faults in the original greek and hebrew manuscripts. Which of course negates her whole reasoning to begin with, that God preserves his word, because that means it took God 1600 to 3000 years, before he had the King James translators correct it.

Faith doesn't require one to throw sound logic and reason out the door. No wonder organized religion is such a mess.

I do agree that God has preserved his word. However the King James Bible is not the primary avenue he used to preserve it.
 





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#82
Using @Claire Rousseau 's reasoning and logic (or lack thereof) one must come to the conclusion that because English is the most widely spoken language in the world (even though it's really not) God needed the translators of the King James Bible to correct all the faults in the original greek and hebrew manuscripts. Which of course negates her whole reasoning to begin with, that God preserves his word, because that means it took God 1600 to 3000 years, before he had the King James translators correct it.

Faith doesn't require one to throw sound logic and reason out the door. No wonder organized religion is such a mess.

I do agree that God has preserved his word. However the King James Bible is not the primary avenue he used to preserve it.
You have a bad habit of putting words in people’s mouth.

You should not make assumptions or formulate conclusions that you attribute to people as beliefs they hold based on your own misunderstandings.

I did not say the original Hebrew OT or Greek Textus Receptus manuscripts were wrong. Ever.

I fully believe they were PRESERVED.

I am merely saying that because I do not happen to speak/read/understand Hebrew or Greek, that I am THANKFUL that God’s Holy Spirit moved through the translators of the KJB to accurately & inerrantly translate His Word into a language that I DO speak/read/understand.

I am certain that every word of the KJB (but not the modern versions) is inspired, preserved, inerrant, complete....and therefore it is UNNECESSARY to refer to a language I CANNOT understand in order to “better” understand the Bible that I ALREADY understand.

That is actually extremely logical.

You clearly disagree, and that is fine....you are entitled to your own opinion, and I have no problem with agreeing to disagree.
 





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#83
You have a bad habit of putting words in people’s mouth.

You should not make assumptions or formulate conclusions that you attribute to people as beliefs they hold based on your own misunderstandings.

I did not say the original Hebrew OT or Greek Textus Receptus manuscripts were wrong. Ever.

I fully believe they were PRESERVED.

I am merely saying that because I do not happen to speak/read/understand Hebrew or Greek, that I am THANKFUL that God’s Holy Spirit moved through the translators of the KJB to accurately & inerrantly translate His Word into a language that I DO speak/read/understand.

I am certain that every word of the KJB (but not the modern versions) is inspired, preserved, inerrant, complete....and therefore it is UNNECESSARY to refer to a language I CANNOT understand in order to “better” understand the Bible that I ALREADY understand.

That is actually extremely logical.

You clearly disagree, and that is fine....you are entitled to your own opinion, and I have no problem with agreeing to disagree.
I did not put words in your mouth. I simply took the logic of your argument to it's fullest extent, to show that the logic behind your pressupostition is not consistent or realistic.

It is not logical when simple scholarship proves that the words in the original manuscripts mean something different than the English translation in your King James Bible.

Whether or not you personally understand Greek or Hebrew is irrelevant to the fact that the english translation says something different than the original text. It's not my problem you are too lazy to do a little research and attempt to understand the original greek or hebrew text.
 





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DUSTY

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#84
Jesus died and His soul went to SHEOL - the land of the dead. Described by the jewish texts as dark and full of the dead, but also very peaceful. Many Near Death Experiencers first go into 'the void' or 'nothingness' which matches the description. Others go straight to the tunnel and bright light. Jesus was dead ~ 36 hours. We say three days because, according to the Jewish idiom, he was dead touching on three different days so they say 'three days'.
 





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#85
Jesus died and His soul went to SHEOL - the land of the dead. Described by the jewish texts as dark and full of the dead, but also very peaceful. Many Near Death Experiencers first go into 'the void' or 'nothingness' which matches the description. Others go straight to the tunnel and bright light. Jesus was dead ~ 36 hours. We say three days because, according to the Jewish idiom, he was dead touching on three different days so they say 'three days'.
If that were the case Jesus would be a false prophet, as Jesus himself said he would be in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights. (Matthew 12:38-42)
 





DUSTY

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#86
If that were the case Jesus would be a false prophet, as Jesus himself said he would be in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights. (Matthew 12:38-42)
And He also said He'd be back for his second coming in their lifetime ...
 





DUSTY

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#88
Where did he say that?
Jesus and His disciples both said He's be back 'SOON'.
Some excuse it and interpret 1,000 years as a day and as 'soon',
but the intent was clearly an immediate return was expected.
That's probably a topic for another thread.

...the coming of the Lord is at hand. ...the Judge is standing right at the door. (James 5:7-9)

For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay. (Heb.10:37)

Children, it is the last hour...from this we know that it is the last hour. (1Jn.2:18)

Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upon the earth. (Rv.3:10)

(1Pet.4:7 / 17)
The end of all things is at hand...
17 For the time has come that judgment must begin at the house of God. And if it first begin with us, what shall the end be of those who obey not the Gospel of God?

2 Peter 3
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat.

Jesus to His twelve apostles:
...you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes.(Mt.10:23)

Jesus to His disciples:
...there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. (Mt.16:27, 28)

....for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is
almost gone, and the day is at hand. (Ro.13:11,12)

And the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.
(Ro.16:20)

...you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the
revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall also confirm
you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1Cor.1:7,8)

...the time has been shortened. (1Cor.7:29)

...the form of this world is passing away. (1Cor.7:31)

Now these things ... were written for our instruction, upon
whom the ends of the ages has come. (1Cor.10:11)

But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready
to disappear. (Heb.8:13)

...you see the day drawing near. (Heb.10:25)

Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
(James 5:7)

He...has appeared in these last times for the sake of you...
(1Pet.1:20)

...but they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge
the living and the dead. (1Pet.4:5)

For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of
God... (1Pet.4:17)

But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved for fire, kept for the Day of Judgment and destruction of ungodly men. (2Pet.3:7)

And the world is passing away... (1Jn.2:17)

I am coming quickly... (Rv.3:11)

Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for
the time is near. (Rv.22:10)

Behold, I am coming quickly... (Rv.22:12)

Yes, I am coming quickly. (Rv.22:20)

...we shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed... (1Cor.15:51)

...we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ... (Phil.3:20)

The Lord is near. (Phil.4:5)

God...in these last days has spoken to us in His Son... (Heb.1:1,2)

...you see the day drawing near. (Heb.10:25)

Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. (James 5:7)
 





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#89
Jesus and His disciples both said He's be back 'SOON'.
I'm only going to address the verses you listed where it was Jesus himself speaking in the gospels.

Jesus to His twelve apostles:
...you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes.(Mt.10:23)
Yes this clearly refers to the judgement of the Jewish nation that happened in 70AD. Compare the text of Matthew 10:16-23 and Luke 21:12-28 and it's pretty obvious they are talking about the same event. In the case of the text in Luke it's clear that was fulfilled in 70AD. The phrase the coming of the Lord in the OT was used to anounce the judgement of God on the nation of Israel. This is what Jesus was speaking about. Not his literal coming at the end of the Age.

Jesus to His disciples:
...there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. (Mt.16:27, 28)
Again he is speaking of the events leading up to 70 AD not his coming at the end of the age.
 





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#90
Jesus died and His soul went to SHEOL - the land of the dead. Described by the jewish texts as dark and full of the dead, but also very peaceful. Many Near Death Experiencers first go into 'the void' or 'nothingness' which matches the description. Others go straight to the tunnel and bright light. Jesus was dead ~ 36 hours. We say three days because, according to the Jewish idiom, he was dead touching on three different days so they say 'three days'.
You made that up...None of what you said is true. And all born again believers will know that that is false teaching.
 





DUSTY

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#91
You made that up...None of what you said is true. And all born again believers will know that that is false teaching.
Thankfully I'm not a 'born again believer' and can study and read all the information without prejudice. Jesus died and His soul went to the dead. The Jews called it SHEOL. I didn't make that up. That's in scripture. Jesus descended to the dead. Described by the jewish texts as dark and full of the dead, but also very peaceful. Many Near Death Experiencers first go into 'the void' or 'nothingness' which matches the description. Others go straight to the tunnel and bright light. Jesus was dead ~ 36 hours. We say three days because, according to the Jewish idiom, he was dead touching on three different days so they say 'three days

I get that you fundamentalists claim everyone in the grave 'sleeps'. But most Christians disagree with that interpretation, while others say that 'sleep' is really just abiding in SHEOL where it is dark and peaceful.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/apostles_creed.cfm

There are a number of passages from which the teaching arises, but primarily, theologues will use verses from Matthew 12:38-41, Romans 10:7, and Ephesians 4:7-10 to demonstrate Christ's descent to hell. In Matthew 12:40, Jesus compares himself to Jonah proclaiming, "As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." And clearly, when Christ died, he gave up his spirit (John 19:30). But to where did his spirit go?

In the end, it comes down to understanding what Scripture means when it speaks of Christ descending into the lower parts of the earth (or the heart of the earth). His soul spent three days and three nights in that abode. Almost unanimously, this deep part of the earth is interpreted as signifying the netherworld (i.e., that place wherein the spirits of the dead make their abode) — hell didn't begin to take on its modern meaning conoting that particular location wherein the damned are punished eternally until quite recently.
 





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#92
Thankfully I'm not a 'born again believer' and can study and read all the information without prejudice. <That is what makes your posting without any Spiritual authority. and your thoughts are just that...yours. They do not hold any authority. The Scripture's are Spiritual....not carnal! Jesus died and His soul went to the dead. The Jews called it SHEOL. I didn't make that up. That's in scripture. Jesus descended to the dead. Described by the jewish texts as dark and full of the dead, but also very peaceful. Many Near Death Experiencers first go into 'the void' or 'nothingness' which matches the description. Others go straight to the tunnel and bright light. Jesus was dead ~ 36 hours. We say three days because, according to the Jewish idiom, he was dead touching on three different days so they say 'three days

I get that you fundamentalists claim everyone in the grave 'sleeps'. But most Christians disagree with that interpretation, while others say that 'sleep' is really just abiding in SHEOL where it is dark and peaceful.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/apostles_creed.cfm

There are a number of passages from which the teaching arises, but primarily, theologues will use verses from Matthew 12:38-41, Romans 10:7, and Ephesians 4:7-10 to demonstrate Christ's descent to hell. In Matthew 12:40, Jesus compares himself to Jonah proclaiming, "As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." And clearly, when Christ died, he gave up his spirit (John 19:30). But to where did his spirit go?

In the end, it comes down to understanding what Scripture means when it speaks of Christ descending into the lower parts of the earth (or the heart of the earth). His soul spent three days and three nights in that abode. Almost unanimously, this deep part of the earth is interpreted as signifying the netherworld (i.e., that place wherein the spirits of the dead make their abode) — hell didn't begin to take on its modern meaning conoting that particular location wherein the damned are punished eternally until quite recently.
 





DUSTY

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#93
That is what makes your posting without any Spiritual authority. and your thoughts are just that...yours. They do not hold any authority. The Scripture's are Spiritual....not carnal! [/quote]

You are funny.

My statement stands. Scripture has Him descending to the dead, which the Jews called SHEOL and which matches the Near Death Experiences of people in a 'Nothingness' or a 'Void'. Most of Christianity agrees with me. You wish to think scripture says something else? Go ahead. Enjoy yourself.
 





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#94
That is what makes your posting without any Spiritual authority. and your thoughts are just that...yours. They do not hold any authority. The Scripture's are Spiritual....not carnal!
You are funny.

My statement stands. Scripture has Him descending to the dead, which the Jews called SHEOL and which matches the Near Death Experiences of people in a 'Nothingness' or a 'Void'. Most of Christianity agrees with me. You wish to think scripture says something else? Go ahead. Enjoy yourself.[/QUOTE]
My point in all this is you are not a born again believer, Therefore you hinder weak believers. Especially since you said you were thankful you were not a born again believer. Your advice is of no avail to the believer.
 





DUSTY

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#96
@DUSTY

I would be interested in what you think a “born again” believer is, and why you personally don’t identify as being one?
Fundamentalist Christian is what I think of when one of them says 'born again' believer. I'm not one of those. I believe Jesus is Divine, that he died, rose from the dead and is coming back. I've had the infilling of the Holy Spirit and have had personal encounters with God. But I'm not one of those fundamentalist bible thumper born agains. Oh heck no.
 





DUSTY

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#97
You are funny.

My statement stands. Scripture has Him descending to the dead, which the Jews called SHEOL and which matches the Near Death Experiences of people in a 'Nothingness' or a 'Void'. Most of Christianity agrees with me. You wish to think scripture says something else? Go ahead. Enjoy yourself.
My point in all this is you are not a born again believer, Therefore you hinder weak believers. Especially since you said you were thankful you were not a born again believer. Your advice is of no avail to the believer.[/QUOTE]
It's rather sad that fundamentalist born agains are so weak that they can't handle discussion on different aspects of religion and spirituality. Their arrogance in their personal beliefs are a hinderance, not a strength. Many have missed the entire reason Jesus came in the first place.
 





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#98
Fundamentalist Christian is what I think of when one of them says 'born again' believer. I'm not one of those. I believe Jesus is Divine, that he died, rose from the dead and is coming back. I've had the infilling of the Holy Spirit and have had personal encounters with God. But I'm not one of those fundamentalist bible thumper born agains. Oh heck no.
Interesting - I wonder if your dislike of fundamentalists is doctrinal or based on a particular type of person you believe to epitomise this mindset? What is your take on the authority of the Bible?
 





DUSTY

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#99
Interesting - I wonder if your dislike of fundamentalists is doctrinal or based on a particular type of person you believe to epitomise this mindset? What is your take on the authority of the Bible?
Particular type of person with the mindset.

Authority of the bible? Fundamentalists hold it up as the ultimate and only authority.
I disagree. Men wrote the bible. Men got parts wrong. It's not the pure word of God.
 





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Particular type of person with the mindset.
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What made you come to that conclusion?

I agree that the Bible was indeed written by men, that various books which are referenced have been lost, and that gross forgeries such as “Gnostic Gospels” were written to try to change the message.

Of the 66 books that became gathered together as the Bible, are there particular ones (or sections) that you have greater doubts over?