Deception in the Church

Lisa

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Hi @Lisa,

I'm just briefly stopping by to bump your thread. This list is too long and, based upon your post of yesterday, growing. I can neither remember all of these criteria nor keep track of the danger signs and signals. Is it safe to say, in sum, that all churches except yours are probably deceived and the reason yours isn't is because you are its sole member and the only one who attends? Standby: here's a big smiley face :) and I will read your answer offline. Thanks.
I was wondering where you’ve been..

There is a lot of deception coming into the churches that’s for sure. The Bible talks about an apostasy and warns people to be on the alert so we have to be careful what we believe.
 






Lisa

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I tried telling @Lisa that heaven would be lonely if her idea that "correct belief" is important for salvation. But she insisted there will be a multitude in heaven, depsite this glaring fact.
Matthew‬ ‭7:13-14‬ ‭
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.​

Yet...a multitude does find their way to heaven..so some do find their way.
‭‭
 






Todd

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Matthew‬ ‭7:13-14‬ ‭
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.​

Yet...a multitude does find their way to heaven..so some do find their way.
‭‭
As usual you either miss the point or choose ignore it.
 






Daciple

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Yoga is not about emptying your mind. It's about quieting your mind to focus. You still need to choose something to focus on.
Yoga is just a technique or skill used to meditate. And yes the bible speaks about meditation and quieting the mind.

Think of it this way. Saying Yoga in and of itself is evil, is like saying singing in and of itself is evil. Music and singing is a technique or skill humans use to express their thougths and emotions. It is not evil. However what we sing about can be righteous or evil. Just as the world can use music and singing to glorify the devil, Christians can use music and singing to glorify God. So the world can use Yoga for evil and Christians can use it for good
This is comparing apples to oranges, music wasnt specifically created for the purpose to worship a specific deity, Yoga however was and is 100% a Religious activity. Of course you and anyone else can remain willfully ignorant of this fact, but to think that Yoga is just a technique or skill to meditate is to deceive yourself and professing so is to deceive others.

There is 100% a PURPOSE behind Yoga, do you even know what the term Yoga means?

It means TO YOKE. Every position of Yoga is created for a PURPOSE. The downward facing dog, a position in Yoga right? It has an intent and purpose behind it. The position was specifically created to align your chakras in such away to move your energy upwards in an attempt to YOKE yourself to a Hindu God.

Yoga isnt just a canvas or base medium, its not like music, its like the Eucharist, a form of worship to a specific God. What Buddhist or Atheist or Muslim would subject themselves to fellowship in the Eucharist and say well its just an expression for me to clear my mind or whatever other terminology they want, when such a practice directly contradicts their own Religion?

It sound retarded to have a Muslim participating in the Eucharist and say its a base medium or canvas and we can plug in whatever God or ideology we want behind it and remove the Eucharist from the entire point and purpose of which it was created and passed down, which is to honor and partake in the Life, Death and Resurrection of Christ.

In the same vein it is absolutely retarded for Christians to participate in a Religious activity that was created specifically to cause those who participate in it, to YOKE themselves to a Hindu God.

If someone who is a Christian wants to meditate then let them IDK meditate as the Bible tells them too, and if they want to stretch there is an entire scientific understanding of how to do that, it is called calisthenics.

And btw yes Yoga is specifically about emptying your mind, the meditation of Yoga is actually the complete opposite of the meditation of the Bible, which is to fill your mind. In Yoga you empty your mind to be filled with their god, in Christian meditation, you focus and fill your mind with Gods Word. Big difference...
 






rainerann

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I am beginning to think that Biblical literalism is a major deception in the church for many reasons. I was reading a book called The Physics of God: Unifying Quantum Physics, Consciousness, M-Theory, Heaven, Neuroscience and Transcendence, which is an excellent book in general. In this book, he makes a comparison between Christianity and eastern religions and says that Christianity is more of a cognitive discipline, whereas eastern philosophies are more experiential.

After taking some time to think about this, I would have to agree that this is true. It is entirely evident in the discussions and debates Christian have with each other about various scriptures that they understand spiritual things cognitively. We share our cognitive understanding of these things in contrast to another person's cognitive understanding of the same thing. What creates this cognitive understanding of scripture---biblical literalism.

This is because an allegorical understanding of scripture is going to have an effect on what we do more than a cognitive understanding will.

For example, "
So the last will be first, and the first will be last." Matthew 20:16. From a literal perspective, there is a right or wrong answer for what this means. From an allegorical perspective, there is not a right or wrong answer for what this means. Instead, there are layers of meaning that can have an effect on what you do.

I have always considered this to mean that people are equal. Therefore, no one should be considered better or worse. However, I have heard other meanings, and I would imagine that this verse could create a debate trying to determine the literal meaning when there might not be one.

I was reading in the Pistis Sophia, which is considered a "Gnostic" text, but Gnostic has a muddled meaning in the modern world and is meant to comprise everyone that did not go on to adopt the version of Christianity issued by the Catholic church. Even though, these groups were not similar in such a way that they could be defined under one heading. They just basically didn't get funneled into what would later become the Catholic church, which would later branch off to become the Protestant church. The Protestant church is a branch of Catholicism and you can see this in its rigid view towards allegory in scripture.

Anyways, the Pistis Sophia says, "And Jesus said to his disciples: "I am come forth out of that First Mystery, which is the last mystery,"

This is an interesting statement when you consider that the verse in scripture can't be given a literal meaning. The first mystery is the last mystery, and then the door is open. The rest of the New Testament continues to talk about understanding the mystery of Christ.

"Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel," Ephesians 6:19.

This is just one example of many to relate that the mystery of the gospel is the first and the last mystery to be understood.

From a literal perspective, I realize that this could almost be considered apostasy or blasphemy to use something that could be labeled "Gnostic" and derive understanding from this. However, this is only because of the error of literalism that endeavors to cognitively understand scripture in a linear way. An allegorical understanding is nonlinear.

An example of where literalism leads to hypocrisy is most clear when you consider the references to dramatic healings in the Bible. People can get up and walk even though they are said to have been paralyzed. You can't defend literalism when this is not something that happens with any degree of regularity, if ever. I am not going to rule out the chance that there are unreported instances where someone recovers the ability to walk, but in the modern world, finding a true example of something like this happening is almost like searching for Bigfoot. There might be a couple of people who say this has happened, but there are never any other witnesses to this or a way to prove this.

Considering how many people identify as Christian, it is really sad to see that something like this is not something that happens on a regular basis. And if we take the Bible literally, the reality that people are not healed either means that it did not happen or something is wrong in our understanding of what did happen. With Biblical literalism, there are only two choices.

I have heard many weak explanations through the years for why there are no healings like the ones described in the Bible. Honestly, I usually looked the other way when I was told these things because I knew what they were saying wasn't something that could be supported with scripture already, but it wasn't important to me to know why at the time. It was more important to follow Jesus and try to learn to love and be grateful and all that.

Now, after spending years seeking these virtues, it is important to me to not ignore the fact that the Bible cannot be considered literal when you realize that there is no way to explain why Jesus healed and the apostles healed the way they did, but no one in the church since this time has been able to do the same.

I think Biblical literalism is to blame because healing needs to be understood allegorically or in a nonlinear way. It could also be compared to the difference between mechanical physics and quantum physics, which leads to the subject of quantum healing, which is of the devil according to fundamentalists much of the time. Open heart surgery is not of the devil, but something like quantum healing would be even though it might be something that has more similarities to what is described in the Gospel than anything the church has been able to produce in 2000 years.

However, healing is often described as allegory if we define allegory as simply an abstract representation of ideas.

"And He told them, "This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting." Mark 9:29.

Even verses like this within a world consumed with Biblical literalism, can take on a literal meaning. There is a certain prayer, fast, or sort of behavior that he was teaching the disciples about when he said this. However, it could also have a nonlinear or quantum meaning about understanding that the first mystery is also the last. Maybe, this is more about seeking to understand the mystery of the Gospel than about the literal act of prayer and fasting resulting in the healing of paralysis. Maybe we don't see people healed of paralysis today because there is no one alive who truly understands this mystery. I think this is a real possibility at this point in my life.

And this is why I think Biblical literalism is a primary deception in the church. I even used to seek to find where I was being deceived when I was younger by remembering that truly being deceived means not realizing that you are. Deception is not obvious. It is not going to be something discussed as an error in understanding anywhere. In some way, it is going to be the thing that most people will agree on even when they disagree on everything else. For the church today, that would describe Biblical literalism.
 






Lisa

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LECTIO DIVINA – What it is, What it is not, and Should Christians Practice it?
February 25, 2020 by Lighthouse Trails Editors

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There’s a lot of talk about it today; umpteen books are published and more are on the way about lectio divina; and an increasing number of evangelical/Protestant figures are writing about it, endorsing it, and teaching it. Some people think lectio divina simply means to read a passage of Scripture slowly (or “praying the Scriptures”) then ponder or think on that Scripture. That can be a part of it. But if you ask mystics or contemplatives what it really entails (And who would know better than they?), they will tell you that lectio divina (pronounced lex-ee-o di-veen-a) always includes taking a passage of Scripture (or other writings), reading it slowly, and repeating it as you work your way down to where you have just a word or small phrase from the passage that you are “meditating” on (repeating over and over). Basically, you are coming up with a mantra-like word or phrase that has been extracted from a passage of Scripture, which, according to contemplatives, if repeated for several minutes, will help you get rid of thoughts and distractions, so then, they say, you can hear the voice of God and feel His presence (going into the silence).

More at the link...
 






floss

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I do not buy any of the Christian narratives on salvation, but as a very adept student of the bible and its historical creation . I can say that if you could be saved then unsaved you as a human are controlling god’s will by your actions .This is crazy thought . The majority of our ancient church fathers were universalists who believed that all people are saved by the sacrifice and to believe otherwise is negating Christ on the cross .
Jesus is quoted in the bible as saying “ it is finished “
Turned out many Christians believed once it is finished, it can be unfinished. Once you're saved, you can be unsaved... lol
You've got the right mind for the Kingdom of Heaven, I hope you find salvation here or elsewhere in your journey.
 






Lisa

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Dear Lighthouse Trails:

Could you please check this out? I am stunned by what I have heard and read about this new group of people called: Neighborly Faith.

Neighborly Faith urges evangelicals to find a :”third way” to befriend Muslims:


There are many evangelical Christians getting involved with this, and it is scary when you realize how far this movement has come in a very short period of time.

I just haven’t seen Lighthouse Trails say anything on this movement, and it is really moving quickly into so-called Christian colleges and other places as well.

I see absolutely nothing good coming from this movement, and believe me it is not going to go away either. It’s the speed of the movement and what this group is saying we as Christians should be doing that put a cold chill down my back.

Thank you for reading my e-mail, and I hope you will check this out.

My concern is that the Lord says we are not to go after other gods, and the Islamics/Muslims do not have the same God as we do. Many Christians, from what I’ve read, are being told and are believing that we do indeed share the same God. I know we do not, and I know you know that too.

M.J.

 






Lisa

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Hi @Lisa,

I notice, in this thread, especially, that you sometimes refer to, and quote stuff from, Lighthouse Trails. Are you aware of this, one of their statements of belief?

"We believe in the eternal security for the person who has received Jesus Christ as his or her Lord and Savior and is thus truly born-again. (John 10: 27-29)."

Although it is probably also used by others, "eternal security" is a term used by, and often associated with, Calvinists to mean "once saved, always saved." :eek:

Do with this information what you will. Always looking out for you, this post might self-destruct in five seconds ...

Serv
I didn’t know that but it doesn’t surprise me...I think most believe in osas.
 






Lisa

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Which raises a potentially interesting question: can Christians deceived on one doctrinal point be not deceived on others? In other words, is there such as thing as partial deception, and, if so, can a partially deceived person be admitted to Heaven?
We are always learning and growing...or at least you should be.
 






Lisa

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Good article..posting some and giving the link for the rest since it is a little longer..


The Current Confusion Between what is false and what is true

In our time lies seem to be everywhere, in every facet of society. There is an increase of confusion which exemplifies that we live in a day of increasing evil. And because of the increasing darkness it can become harder to distinguish what is right from wrong.

It can be frustrating trying to distinguish or explain matters of importance. We should be able to explain why someone is wrong about something without berating them calling them names to humiliate their intelligence, education, spirituality or reputation. This shows someone is immature and is unable to walk away from a disagreement and not turn it into a feud.

We are told Col 4:5-6 “ Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time. Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.”

Wisdom is applying knowledge which must come first.

Prov. 2:10 “ When wisdom enters your heart, and knowledge is pleasant to your soul

Prov. 3:13 “ Happy is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gains understanding

Wisdom is peaceable not antagonistic. It may offend some by speaking what is true, as James 3:13-18 tells us, “ Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.”

The truth is far rarer to be heard in our day then at anytime in recent history. People are quite content to be fed misinformation, as they go by their feelings not by facts.

Disinformation by the media and religious leaders (the church included) are accepted as long as it makes them feel good. The media brings their own interpretation on events to spoon feed those who cannot think beyond the first letters of the alphabet. These are those who could care less about their country and the lives of people suffering here and elsewhere. However, the church is to have wisdom and know truth from error and not fall for the same error that the world has. We are to have the mind of Christ, think as He does, see things the way He does and react differently.
 






Lisa

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^^^This!
And I would say that this is also how people who know God..partake of the Holy Spirit, fall away from the faith. They just follow along with the crowd...thinking that if they don’t know..those people do.

Matthew‬ ‭7:13-14‬ ‭
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.


Hebrews 2:1‬-3
For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. “For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?

Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

Galatians 5:2-9
Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.

Colossians 2:8‬ ‭
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.

I also think the antidote is to read the Bible even if you don’t understand it at first...and also check what you have come across against the Bible..because the Bible is the Christian’s plumb line...its how you judge what is true and false.

Edit: I would also say..be careful of what other translations of the Bible you use...like the message. I use the NASB which I feel confident is a good translation..I also don’t mind the esv and the niv. Not interested in the archaic language of the kjv...I don’t think that’s helpful to understanding the Bible as we don’t know some of those words now.
 






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