Deception in the Church

Axl888

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Why once saved always saved is no bueno...

1.) If it happened to the Israelites it can happen to you...God tells us we are not better than Israel.
Romans 11:17-25‬ ‭
“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;”
‭‭

2.) Falling away....The Bible tells us falling away is a possibility for those in the faith...Jesus, Peter, Paul and the writer of Hebrews knew of it.

Matthew 24:10
At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.

Matthew 26:33
But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away."


1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

2 Peter 2:20-21‬ ‭
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.

2 Peter 3:14-18‬ ‭
Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
‭‭2 Peter 3:14-18‬ ‭

Hebrews 2:1‬-3
For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. “For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, how will we escape if we neglect so great a
salvation?

Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.


3.) How does the falling away happen?
2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
‭‭
Galatians 5:2-9
Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.

Colossians 2:8‬ ‭
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
‭‭

4.) What happens to those who fall away....because there is a punishment for falling away.
2 Peter 2:20-21‬ ‭
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.

Hebrews 6:4-8
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Hebrews 10:36-39
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised. FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.


5.) Not everyone who says they are Christians are Christians.
Matthew 7:15-23
Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

6.) Test to see if you are in the faith....
‭‭2 Corinthians 13:5-6‬
Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test? But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.”

Acts 17:11‬ ‭
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

‭‭‭Jude 1:20-21
But you beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

7.) Some iffy things....
Hebrews 3:6
but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house-whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

Hebrews 3:14
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.

John 8:51
Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”

John 15:6
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

John 15:14
You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.

Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Romans 11:22
Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 2:15
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 John 2:24
Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.


8.) Be alert!
Luke 21:36
But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.

1 Corinthians‬ ‭16:13‬
Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.

1 Peter 5:8-9‬
Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.

‭‭1 Thessalonians 5:4-6‬ ‭
But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.”


9.) Endurance is key!
Matthew 24:13
The one who endures to the end will be saved.

Mark 13:13
You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
‭‭‭
2 Timothy 2:12‬
If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us.


Ephesians‬ ‭6:10-18‬
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints.
‭‭‭

I made this quite some time ago @Red Sky at Morning and believe this to be the truth. I have thought long and hard about it already, so this is my reply to you.
I say Amen to this...
 





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Not a Messiah or savior like the NT or even Islam says.

Are you talking about King Nebuchadnezzar II or the idea of lucifer as per Revelation 2 and Surah at-Tariq in the Quran?
I don't think the king of babylon was considered 'satan' at the time. Daniel served in his kitchen and was praying for him. I think they knew that this 'evil' had come about as punishment for their own sins. Zechariah 5, Habakkuk 2, Prophet Jeremiah foretold the invasion. In the Quran, chapter 17 even refers to babylonians as 'OUR servants' (in the context because they were doing the will of God in inflicting punishment on the jews).
In the context of Isaiah 14 though, it isnt talking about SATAN/lucifer though..and when it does mention the word lucifer/morning star, it is only in the context of jest/mockery.
Basically lucifer/the morning star is not an evil concept in the bible or the Quran. it was never about 'satan' like a lot of these christians imagine in their head.

the duality of good and evil is another topic.
I get what you're saying, but the problem I have is that the video I posted had Catholics singing "Jesus the son of Lucifer". Unless you call the Creator "Lucifer" or "Morning star" Im not sure how Lucifer not meaning what christians believe it does has anything to do with the video. My point was that its a "hiding truth in plain sight" admittance of who they understand "Jesus Christ" to be. Not someone from the God of Israel in the OT, but from someone THEY refer to as Lucifer. This is the same catholic church that sprouted the protestants by the way so imo thats the biggest deception in the church...

And I guess if you'd say that Isaiah 14 isnt talking about an adversarial spirit , then Im sure you'd also say Ezekiel 28 isnt talking about an adversarial spirit. Read Daniel 10:12-13 and ask yourself, who was Gabriel (or the angel speaking) fighting against that he had to call Michael (another angel) for help? Human kings? This is really here nor there but thats my view on it... As far as Nebuchadnezzar, I think its a mistake to think of satan as a singular entity since the word means ADVERSARY. An "angel of the Lord" was called satan in Numbers 22 because at that time he was acting as an adversary at that time. Nebuchadnezzar was an adversary to Israel which is why they were under his captivity and he was putting them to death for not worshiping his idol. And to add, attempted to put Daniel to death once, if not twice
 





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I get what you're saying, but the problem I have is that the video I posted had Catholics singing "Jesus the son of Lucifer". Unless you call the Creator "Lucifer" or "Morning star" Im not sure how Lucifer not meaning what christians believe it does has anything to do with the video. My point was that its a "hiding truth in plain sight" admittance of who they understand "Jesus Christ" to be. Not someone from the God of Israel in the OT, but from someone THEY refer to as Lucifer. This is the same catholic church that sprouted the protestants by the way so imo thats the biggest deception in the church...

And I guess if you'd say that Isaiah 14 isnt talking about an adversarial spirit , then Im sure you'd also say Ezekiel 28 isnt talking about an adversarial spirit. Read Daniel 10:12-13 and ask yourself, who was Gabriel (or the angel speaking) fighting against that he had to call Michael (another angel) for help? Human kings? This is really here nor there but thats my view on it... As far as Nebuchadnezzar, I think its a mistake to think of satan as a singular entity since the word means ADVERSARY. An "angel of the Lord" was called satan in Numbers 22 because at that time he was acting as an adversary at that time. Nebuchadnezzar was an adversary to Israel which is why they were under his captivity and he was putting them to death for not worshiping his idol. And to add, attempted to put Daniel to death once, if not twice
I'm not defending catholicism at all, but i don't know the accurate context to the video you posted. Was he praying to GOD/The Father, whilst referring to lucifer as a latin term within the context of it being part of God's power (as in, like Rev 2, the Morning star is from God) and THEN referring to 'The Son' as God's Son rather than 'the son of lucifer'?
I'm more inclined to believe this version than just 'they were saying Jesus is the son of lucifer'.

I've read a few masonic/theosophical texts a while back and one thing they all agree on is that LUCIFER comes under Christ, not over...and these guys, moreso the thoseophy guys were apologetically luciferian and actually think of lucifer and satan, as the 'dance of shiva' and refer to the way brahma and shiva refer to creation and dissolution..and our spiritual descent and ascent.
So if anyone is going to be that type of luciferian, they would hold such beliefs or similar rather than call Christ the son of lucifer, such a thing makes little sense. Those who worship lucifer think he is an extention of God, not THE God.
Shit, even satan doesnt pretend to be the Absolute God.

Ezekiel 28 refers to a king claiming to be 'God'..that's nothing new, antiochus epiphanes and titus also claimed to be 'gods'.
"But you are a mere mortal and not a god,"

Daniel 10:12-13 and ask yourself, who was Gabriel (or the angel speaking) fighting against that he had to call Michael (another angel) for help? Human kings?

Man, when it comes to the spiritual/mental side, there's all manner of resistance around us and especially within us, we can talk about demons, but the ego/monkey mind is far more difficult than demonic spirits.

The prince of persia, was Cyrus the Great. He was NOT a believer..
in Isaiah 45 it says this about him
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,

13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.


there are many adversaries and in islam the 'chief' demon is called Iblees. when we say 'satan' it generally means any form of evil inc our own selves. Jesus said to peter 'get away from me satan'.

ALL im really pointing out is that there is no absolute Devil/satan, there are demonic spirits and demonic people. Lucifer is not 'satan' at all, it is just a word/term with a different context used by dumb people for 'satan'.
remember what i said about lucifer referring to wisdom.




Also, protestants are thick as shit man. most of the ones on here are hardcore israel fanboys and insist the catholic church is 'mystery babylon', so with these videos, come the Rev 18 references.
How dumb are these people?
in Rev 18, the whore of babylon is attributed with the murder of PROPHETS AND SAINTS. only jerusalem/jews have that distinction.
Jesus directly said
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you

the whore sitting on the beast, means we have to seperate the beast from the whore. the beast is Rome..and extended to the end times global government. it's interesting that european colonial nations were all former roman colonies and thus, extentions of rome.
This is the 'beast' system. but who 'sits on it'? ie who happens to exert control over it..and steer it in a certain direction? jews?
that's the 'sitting on the beast' part.
throughout the OT, eg jeremiah 2&3 it is judea that's called the whore/adulteress.

plus if that wasnt enough, it's full of Babylon references, the jews have that distinction. the catholic church has fuck all to do with babylon.


The reality was that martin luther was a deluded guy who accused the catholic church of being 'the whore of babylon' and believed the pope at that time was THE anti-christ.
just think about that bro. The only reason the protestant reformation happened in England was because of Henry the 8th's big ego and beef with the spanish and french and his divorce(s). He would have become a lutheran outright but didnt because his lutheran wife turned out to be plain looking and he was angry with her family and lutherans...so he went half cocked and kept hold of the trinitarian doctrine rather than kill more catholics. then there was mad mary, the catholic, daughter of Henry the 8th. queen elizabeth vhanged the game however, she made deals with the ottomons and moors and decided to bring in the expert money lenders JEWS to counter the growth of the italian merchant banks.

Your merchants were the world’s important people.
By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”


Your merchants were the world’s important people.
literally true, most the wealthiest people are jews.

By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
media, tv, movies, music, porn etc

In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

self explanatory, but inc the 20-40m dead orthodox christians too...inc the cold war era
ww1 was to bring down the tzar in russia, ww2 was to establish the US....amongst many other reasons.
the deaths and wars that continue till today eg the war on terror, are because of jews. that is no exaggeration..
the bolsheviks were jewish. Post cold war, they stripped russia of it's assets and divided it amongst jews.


 





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I'm not defending catholicism at all, but i don't know the accurate context to the video you posted. Was he praying to GOD/The Father, whilst referring to lucifer as a latin term within the context of it being part of God's power (as in, like Rev 2, the Morning star is from God) and THEN referring to 'The Son' as God's Son rather than 'the son of lucifer'?
I'm more inclined to believe this version than just 'they were saying Jesus is the son of lucifer'.

I've read a few masonic/theosophical texts a while back and one thing they all agree on is that LUCIFER comes under Christ, not over...and these guys, moreso the thoseophy guys were apologetically luciferian and actually think of lucifer and satan, as the 'dance of shiva' and refer to the way brahma and shiva refer to creation and dissolution..and our spiritual descent and ascent.
So if anyone is going to be that type of luciferian, they would hold such beliefs or similar rather than call Christ the son of lucifer, such a thing makes little sense. Those who worship lucifer think he is an extention of God, not THE God.
Shit, even satan doesnt pretend to be the Absolute God.
This, to me, comes of as you trying to rationalize what they said on some “I know it comes off this way but they really meant this” type of way. And I disagree with your attempt at rationalizing it. They plainly said (well in Latin at least) that he is the son of Lucifer. Something that isn’t biblical even NT wise. The only things he’s called the son of biblically are God, David, and Joseph so unless you can explain which of these are Lucifer then I’m just going to politely disagree with ANY attempt you make at trying to rationalize what they said. If they know Lucifer as Satan and call Jesus the son of Lucifer, then there’s logically nothing else I’m supposed to take away from that other than they’re saying that the “ Father” is some type of adversary.

And according to the OT EVERYTHING that isn’t in accord with the Law and the prophets is of the same adversarial spirit. That goes for Mohammed Jesus Buddha Krishna or any other religious figure that doesn’t explicitly and ONLY draw from the Torah. So a Buddhist might say Buddha is different than Krishna. But to the OT, they're both NOT to be listened to as they not use the Torah (i.e. God's INSTRUCTIONS) as the foundation of their teachings... And that goes for any religious/spiritual leader that doesnt even if they pay lip service to the God of Israel's chosen servants (Abraham Moses David etc...)
Ezekiel 28 refers to a king claiming to be 'God'..that's nothing new, antiochus epiphanes and titus also claimed to be 'g
"But you are a mere mortal and not a god,"

Daniel 10:12-13 and ask yourself, who was Gabriel (or the angel speaking) fighting against that he had to call Michael (another angel) for help? Human kings?

Man, when it comes to the spiritual/mental side, there's all manner of resistance around us and especially within us, we can talk about demons, but the ego/monkey mind is far more difficult than demonic spirits.

The prince of persia, was Cyrus the Great. He was NOT a believer..
in Isaiah 45 it says this about him
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,


13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

there are many adversaries and in islam the 'chief' demon is called Iblees. when we say 'satan' it generally means any form of evil inc our own selves. Jesus said to peter 'get away from me satan'.
I simply disagree that Gabriel was struggling with human kings and detained by one. I disagree that he needed to call backup to fight against human kings. Could be wrong as Im not going to pretend as if I have a good grasp on what was going on there, but it doesn’t make much sense as I personally don’t see that as being a battle. That’s really here nor there though. My point was about the video and that it’s calling the father of Jesus “Lucy”. To me they know that Jesus has nothing to do with the God of Israel which anybody can know if they simply read the OT and compared it to the NT.

ALL im really pointing out is that there is no absolute Devil/satan, there are demonic spirits and demonic people. Lucifer is not 'satan' at all, it is just a word/term with a different context used by dumb people for 'satan'.
remember what i said about lucifer referring to wisdom.
Yea I believe I already said that satan means adversary and can literally refer to anyone not to mention it being used in regards to an angel of God in Numbers 22. And unless you call the Most High "Lucifer" then it doesnt really matter who Lucifer is or refers to. If its not the Most High then they have some answering to do when they call someone who is supposed to be the son of the Most High, the son of Lucifer..


Also, protestants are thick as shit man. most of the ones on here are hardcore israel fanboys and insist the catholic church is 'mystery babylon', so with these videos, come the Rev 18 references.
How dumb are these people?
in Rev 18, the whore of babylon is attributed with the murder of PROPHETS AND SAINTS. only jerusalem/jews have that distinction.
Jesus directly said
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you

the whore sitting on the beast, means we have to seperate the beast from the whore. the beast is Rome..and extended to the end times global government. it's interesting that european colonial nations were all former roman colonies and thus, extentions of rome.
This is the 'beast' system. but who 'sits on it'? ie who happens to exert control over it..and steer it in a certain direction? jews?
that's the 'sitting on the beast' part.
throughout the OT, eg jeremiah 2&3 it is judea that's called the whore/adulteress.

plus if that wasnt enough, it's full of Babylon references, the jews have that distinction. the catholic church has fuck all to do with babylon.


The reality was that martin luther was a deluded guy who accused the catholic church of being 'the whore of babylon' and believed the pope at that time was THE anti-christ.
just think about that bro. The only reason the protestant reformation happened in England was because of Henry the 8th's big ego and beef with the spanish and french and his divorce(s). He would have become a lutheran outright but didnt because his lutheran wife turned out to be plain looking and he was angry with her family and lutherans...so he went half cocked and kept hold of the trinitarian doctrine rather than kill more catholics. then there was mad mary, the catholic, daughter of Henry the 8th. queen elizabeth vhanged the game however, she made deals with the ottomons and moors and decided to bring in the expert money lenders JEWS to counter the growth of the italian merchant banks.

Your merchants were the world’s important people.
By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”


Your merchants were the world’s important people.
literally true, most the wealthiest people are jews.

By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
media, tv, movies, music, porn etc

In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

self explanatory, but inc the 20-40m dead orthodox christians too...inc the cold war era
ww1 was to bring down the tzar in russia, ww2 was to establish the US....amongst many other reasons.
the deaths and wars that continue till today eg the war on terror, are because of jews. that is no exaggeration..
the bolsheviks were jewish. Post cold war, they stripped russia of it's assets and divided it amongst jews.


Well obviously I disagree on who you're calling "Jews" just as I dont think the land they forcefully occupied/occupy is even the promised land of the bible. So the problem calling the leaders of this society "Jews" is that the bible says that the ONLY way the Israelites would get into the position that the people you call Jews are in, is if they obeyed the Torah. The people you call Jews dont obey the Torah and have never obeyed the Torah at least in modern times. And if they have, the things that God said would happen once they do (Him meeting them face to face in the wilderness for example) has never been documented to have happened. So either the bible is false and they can do whatever they want disregarding the blessings and curses of obedience (or disobedience) to God's word or the bible is true and when they obey THEN they get to be in the positions they're in now and when they disobey, well they get put in the positions of (;))people in America and across the world. So thats another deception in the church imo. The church supporting fake Israel and fake Jews.

I also think that the Catholic Church carries on the spiritual traditions of Babylon so in that way they are tied to babylon. But then again, I dont subscribe to Revelation as I see it as a compilation of the book of Daniel, Isaiah, and other OT and apocrypha books that had prophecies of times to come. So while I agree that your stance on it representing the so called Jews makes more sense to me than the Catholic Church, I cant really speak on it all the way because I dont believe in Revelation fully...
 





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@KoncreteMind
This, to me, comes of as you trying to rationalize what they said on some “I know it comes off this way but they really meant this” type of way. And I disagree with your attempt at rationalizing it. They plainly said (well in Latin at least) that he is the son of Lucifer. Something that isn’t biblical even NT wise. The only things he’s called the son of biblically are God, David, and Joseph so unless you can explain which of these are Lucifer then I’m just going to politely disagree with ANY attempt you make at trying to rationalize what they said. If they know Lucifer as Satan and call Jesus the son of Lucifer, then there’s logically nothing else I’m supposed to take away from that other than they’re saying that the “ Father” is some type of adversary.

There are a couple of things i pointed out that you overlooked.
Even if the catholic church is luciferian, the luciferian belief doesn't state that 'lucifer' is greater than the Logos/Christ.
Lucifer or 'The light' or 'Good' is part of the duality of good and evil which is part of causation, whereas the Logos is eternal, pre-causal.

The translations of that song also differed, here's one translation

May this flame be found still burning
by the Morning Star:
the one Morning Star who never sets,
Christ your Son,
who, coming back from death's domain,
has shed his peaceful light on humanity,
and lives and reigns for ever and ever.


it doesnt seem to call Christ the 'son of lucifer/morning star'.
Keeping in mind again that the Morning Star, mentioned in Revelation 2 is one of the gifts from the holy spirit.

And according to the OT EVERYTHING that isn’t in accord with the Law and the prophets is of the same adversarial spirit. That goes for Mohammed Jesus Buddha Krishna or any other religious figure that doesn’t explicitly and ONLY draw from the Torah. So a Buddhist might say Buddha is different than Krishna. But to the OT, they're both NOT to be listened to as they not use the Torah (i.e. God's INSTRUCTIONS) as the foundation of their teachings... And that goes for any religious/spiritual leader that doesnt even if they pay lip service to the God of Israel's chosen servants (Abraham Moses David etc...)

how does someone determine what is in-tune with the OT and what isn't? many OT prophets were rejected in their own lifetime and only accepted after the events/prophecies were fulfilled.
When i use examples from other systems it's because i believe in a shared-collective truth. I believe there's ONE metaphysical truth and many interpretations/experiences. So for example, i'm inclined to believe krishna, rama, lao zhu, guru nanak, buddah were expressions of the metaphysical reality...in the same way prophets of islam or judaism are. That does not mean i need to believe in their exact teachings/religions.
IF a religion tells people they can never look to any other system/person, that's part of the expression of metaphysical reality too because how else can people have a concentrated mind and a new thoughtform?
Although this is all offtopic, i only give examples of various beliefs just so we can understand where certain people are coming from.
In this case, i know for sure IF the catholic church was luciferian, they still wouldn't call Jesus/Christ 'the son of lucifer'.
IF the singer was addressing 'lucifer' and saying 'Christ your son' it wouldnt say BY THE MORNING STAR, it would say 'BY YOU, the morning star.'
That's all im contending here.


I simply disagree that Gabriel was struggling with human kings and detained by one. I disagree that he needed to call backup to fight against human kings. Could be wrong as Im not going to pretend as if I have a good grasp on what was going on there, but it doesn’t make much sense as I personally don’t see that as being a battle. That’s really here nor there though. My point was about the video and that it’s calling the father of Jesus “Lucy”. To me they know that Jesus has nothing to do with the God of Israel which anybody can know if they simply read the OT and compared it to the NT.

Keeping in mind angels cannot impede on human free will, so at best Gabriel would be suggesting ideas to a man who perhaps may have interference from other darker entities too.
You can't disagree anyway, it says

13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

it doesnt say 'the king of andromedia galaxy' does it? the prince of the persian kingdom was Cyrus, the king was his father at that time.

We can clearly see in the OT there were men of God who often resisted the divine revelation and struggled with their faith. What do you suppose an angel would do in that situation? knock the guy out? or plant good seeds in his heart?

hence
Isaiah 45
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,


also keep in mind, these people in positions of power, have A LOT of other entities at work influencing them.



Well obviously I disagree on who you're calling "Jews" just as I dont think the land they forcefully occupied/occupy is even the promised land of the bible. So the problem calling the leaders of this society "Jews" is that the bible says that the ONLY way the Israelites would get into the position that the people you call Jews are in, is if they obeyed the Torah. The people you call Jews dont obey the Torah and have never obeyed the Torah at least in modern times. And if they have, the things that God said would happen once they do (Him meeting them face to face in the wilderness for example) has never been documented to have happened.

You realise in the lifetime of prophet Mohammad, these same jews established a jewish-commonwealth state in jerusalem under Sassanid rule?
Zecheriah 11 foretold the rejection of Jesus and it also foretold the coming false-messiah who the jews will reject, the worthless shepherd.
So how could that take place without them living in the land?

In Revelation 12, it calls Jerusalem 'the city that id figurately known as SODOM AND EGYPT' and the city of jerusalem is partially destroyed by an earthquake with the arrival of the false-messiah.
Also, what you refer to really..the redeption of israel, the return of the remnant etc is messianic and is about the whole of israel inc the 10 lost tribes returning.

JEWS have lived in jerusalem throughout the entire duration of muslim rule for example...so i have no doubt they are jewish by bloodline. i don't for example think there is some other race of people hiding out in jamaica who are real bloodline jews.

The NT/pauline teachings esp point out that BLOODLINE does not make one a true 'jew' eg the gentiles were grafted in as wild branches into the olive tree...to replace the branches that were cut off (jews).
when we talk of fake jews, it doesnt mean they aren't jewish by bloodline, only that they arent truely jewish by faith.
 





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@KoncreteMind
This, to me, comes of as you trying to rationalize what they said on some “I know it comes off this way but they really meant this” type of way. And I disagree with your attempt at rationalizing it. They plainly said (well in Latin at least) that he is the son of Lucifer. Something that isn’t biblical even NT wise. The only things he’s called the son of biblically are God, David, and Joseph so unless you can explain which of these are Lucifer then I’m just going to politely disagree with ANY attempt you make at trying to rationalize what they said. If they know Lucifer as Satan and call Jesus the son of Lucifer, then there’s logically nothing else I’m supposed to take away from that other than they’re saying that the “ Father” is some type of adversary.

There are a couple of things i pointed out that you overlooked.
Even if the catholic church is luciferian, the luciferian belief doesn't state that 'lucifer' is greater than the Logos/Christ.
Lucifer or 'The light' or 'Good' is part of the duality of good and evil which is part of causation, whereas the Logos is eternal, pre-causal.

The translations of that song also differed, here's one translation

May this flame be found still burning
by the Morning Star:
the one Morning Star who never sets,
Christ your Son,
who, coming back from death's domain,
has shed his peaceful light on humanity,
and lives and reigns for ever and ever.


it doesnt seem to call Christ the 'son of lucifer/morning star'.
Keeping in mind again that the Morning Star, mentioned in Revelation 2 is one of the gifts from the holy spirit.

And according to the OT EVERYTHING that isn’t in accord with the Law and the prophets is of the same adversarial spirit. That goes for Mohammed Jesus Buddha Krishna or any other religious figure that doesn’t explicitly and ONLY draw from the Torah. So a Buddhist might say Buddha is different than Krishna. But to the OT, they're both NOT to be listened to as they not use the Torah (i.e. God's INSTRUCTIONS) as the foundation of their teachings... And that goes for any religious/spiritual leader that doesnt even if they pay lip service to the God of Israel's chosen servants (Abraham Moses David etc...)
As I posted before, it doesnt matter who they call Jesus or Lucifer. If what they're saying is NOT in accordance with the Law and the Prophets then I am told to NOT follow or believe it. Its really that simple. And since I have the Law and the Prophets (at least to some extent) in front of me, I can read it, study it, and pray on it so that I can guard myself against falsehoods that might creep in. The catholic church is luciferian and they dont even hide it particularly


I didnt even get into the faux blood drinking/cannibalism rituals or the human sacrifice that is the center of the belief system. Its not a question (to me at least) if they're luciferian. They openly show they are..

how does someone determine what is in-tune with the OT and what isn't?
Huh? Thats like asking someone "how does one determine what is in tune with this science book in front of me?" How else would you determine it other than reading/studying it and praying on it while comparing it to whatever it may be. Seems simple enough to me..

Keeping in mind angels cannot impede on human free will, so at best Gabriel would be suggesting ideas to a man who perhaps may have interference from other darker entities too.
You can't disagree anyway, it says

13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

it doesnt say 'the king of andromedia galaxy' does it? the prince of the persian kingdom was Cyrus, the king was his father at that time.

We can clearly see in the OT there were men of God who often resisted the divine revelation and struggled with their faith. What do you suppose an angel would do in that situation? knock the guy out? or plant good seeds in his heart?
Well first off The Most High is called the King of Israel instead of "King of andromedia galaxy. It simply states that He is the king of a human nation that already had a human king over it. If this can be said about Israel, why cant this be said about other nations? In fact, why does Deuteronomy 32:8 (in some translations at least) say God chose Israel and gave other nations to the sons of God? How can a human king detain an angel? Why is an angel calling for backup to fight a human king? Heck here are King Cyrus' names according to wiki:

His regal titles in full were The Great King, King of Persia, King of Anshan, King of Media, King of Babylon, King of Sumer and Akkad, and King of the Four Corners of the World.
King all over the place yet you say his father was the king at that time based on what?

You realise in the lifetime of prophet Mohammad, these same jews established a jewish-commonwealth state in jerusalem under Sassanid rule?
Zecheriah 11 foretold the rejection of Jesus and it also foretold the coming false-messiah who the jews will reject, the worthless shepherd.
So how could that take place without them living in the land?

In Revelation 12, it calls Jerusalem 'the city that id figurately known as SODOM AND EGYPT' and the city of jerusalem is partially destroyed by an earthquake with the arrival of the false-messiah.
Also, what you refer to really..the redeption of israel, the return of the remnant etc is messianic and is about the whole of israel inc the 10 lost tribes returning.

JEWS have lived in jerusalem throughout the entire duration of muslim rule for example...so i have no doubt they are jewish by bloodline. i don't for example think there is some other race of people hiding out in jamaica who are real bloodline jews.

The NT/pauline teachings esp point out that BLOODLINE does not make one a true 'jew' eg the gentiles were grafted in as wild branches into the olive tree...to replace the branches that were cut off (jews).
when we talk of fake jews, it doesnt mean they aren't jewish by bloodline, only that they arent truely jewish by faith.
I realize that people made up parts of history to hide the truth. Which is why you say Mohammed was living in the promised land with Jews while Colombus 1000 years later was on the other side of the world looking for the promised land and assuming to have found the Garden of Eden in South America. The problem is you're not going to read the OT to see what it says about the Israelites. You're going to go by your secular knowledge and think that will guide you into understanding what the bible is talking about. It wont.

You can tell me about what the NT says, but what about the OT? Why does it say that Israel will be scattered to the ENDS of the earth? Why does it say that when they are scattered they'd lose their heritage? Why does it say that when all these things run its course and Israel turns back to obeying God, that He'd regather them AT THAT TIME? I didnt even get into the curses/blessings that should be on Israel for obedience/disobedience while who you call Jews are getting blessed (secular-wise) while in disobedience.. Of course this thread isnt about this (though it 100% is yet ANOTHER deception in the church) but when you speak of those that call themselves Jews, then this needs to be brought up. Biblically speaking, they dont fit and wont ever fit. Just because you were taught it was them, doesnt mean they are and you could see that if you ever dared to actually read what the OT says about the Israelites in the last days and see who it fits most.
 





A.J.

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OSAS? Sounds like hyper grace.
Replacement Theology? The dispensation is the same... how about Covenant Theology, what makes one to differ from another?
How about Perseverance of the Saints! Augustine is a good bridge between the faithful Catholic and the Protestant believer. If we meet at the early Church which was rediscovered and renewed via the Reformation we are on good common ground. Look up Dr Phillip Cary. He’s a good, sound source on Church History, doctrine, theology, grace and faith and Jesus Christ as the center of it all.
 





Joined
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Messages
912
Likes
963
OSAS? Sounds like hyper grace.
Replacement Theology? The dispensation is the same... how about Covenant Theology, what makes one to differ from another?
How about Perseverance of the Saints! Augustine is a good bridge between the faithful Catholic and the Protestant believer. If we meet at the early Church which was rediscovered and renewed via the Reformation we are on good common ground. Look up Dr Phillip Cary. He’s a good, sound source on Church History, doctrine, theology, grace and faith and Jesus Christ as the center of it all.
We need to quit believing men and trust Christ.
 





Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
2,491
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2,675
@KoncreteMind
As I posted before, it doesnt matter who they call Jesus or Lucifer. If what they're saying is NOT in accordance with the Law and the Prophets then I am told to NOT follow or believe it. Its really that simple. And since I have the Law and the Prophets (at least to some extent) in front of me, I can read it, study it, and pray on it so that I can guard myself against falsehoods that might creep in. The catholic church is luciferian and they dont even hide it particularly

Thing is, it's not about you/your beliefs but theirs. If you're telling me they're LUCIFERIAN then surely it would make sense to understand luciferian belief? As i said, they do not regard lucifer to be greater than the Logos/Christ. They do not regard lucifer as the Absolute God, but a component of God, which again is very much in line with Revelation 2. The only issue with luciferians is that they attach duality of good and evil to lucifer and therefore assertain that 'satan' is the other side of lucifer and therefore basically channel and worship satan as that same component of God. It's a sneaky way to justify a form of satan worship whereby they are taught false ideas under the illusion of 'good'. For example whatever type of satanic entity it is that comes to them, calling himself 'lucifer' in whatever beautiful form, tells them to establish a global government. The absolute bloodbath of the early 20th century inc the bolshevik revolution and the holocoast, were just part of sacrificing human life to give life a global thoughtform that serves their material agenda. It's created by people who want power and wealth and this thoughtform, feeding off global energy in turn rewards those people. Their only job is to feed off human energy and serve 'the agenda' and in turn it attacks those people who don't serve it. So if you serve a religion for good, you stand opposed to the material agenda and do not give it your sexual and life energy.
The luciferian side to this is that these people follow the material agenda with an overall image/idea in mind of the world they wish tocreate, believing it to be 'good'.

Huh? Thats like asking someone "how does one determine what is in tune with this science book in front of me?" How else would you determine it other than reading/studying it and praying on it while comparing it to whatever it may be. Seems simple enough to me..

Well no because science is objective truth, except the hypothesis it serves ie how it's interpreted which is subjective. Religion is usually the otherway round, it is subjective truth that's designed in a way that allows people, usually in collective ignorance to believe in it as if it's objective truth.

The reason i brought it up is because you're telling me the OT is the authority (for you) and you give little thought to anything else. Yet Jesus had his OT and there were sadducees, pharisees and other sects with different interpretations of the bible. The philosopher Philo for example had his interpretation of the Torah through the lens of greek philosophy.

Well first off The Most High is called the King of Israel instead of "King of andromedia galaxy. It simply states that He is the king of a human nation that already had a human king over it. If this can be said about Israel, why cant this be said about other nations? In fact, why does Deuteronomy 32:8 (in some translations at least) say God chose Israel and gave other nations to the sons of God? How can a human king detain an angel? Why is an angel calling for backup to fight a human king? Heck here are King Cyrus' names according to wiki:

The Israelites didn't have a king, that is why GOD was called their KING. However the israelites demanded they get a king just like other nations have kings, so they got Saul.

Daniel 10 says
13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia


Are you confusing the king of Babylon with the king of Persia?
Isaiah 14 was about the king of babylon and in that context the term 'Morning star/lucifer' was used. So you went on to suggest Daniel 10 as an example of an adversary at work..but babylon and persia weren't the same. Persia took over babylon through Cyrus the great later, after Daniel. That's why im assuming Cyris was 'the prince' mentioned in Daniel 10 and his father was king. However it couldf be that Cyrus was the king and Darius was the prince?

Remember, Cyrus the great was 'good' by biblical standards.
This is why i don't imagine some spiritual war where michael and gabriel were at war against an ADVERSARY. I imagine they were trying to plant the right seeds in Cyrus(or Darius) to inspire him to work on God's plan. Hence

Isaiah 45
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,



Now the 4 beasts of Daniel, of which Persia was the 2nd beast, connects with the 4 directions/colours/chariots in Zechariah 6

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=zechariah+6&version=KJ21

2 In the first chariot were red horses, and in the second chariot black horses,
3 and in the third chariot white horses, and in the fourth chariot grizzled and bay horses.
5 And the angel answered and said unto me, “These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country, and the white go forth after them, and the grizzled go forth toward the south country.


Zechariah was around at the time of Cyrus and Darius.. Going from Zech 6, persia representing the second, the 'black horses' has to
"go forth into the north country"
The 'north country' in the context of judea, was babylon. So Cyrus/darius would have to go into babylon.

"“These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth."
Rather than suggest there was an adversary spirit behind the 4 beasts, we're learning that there were 4 spirits of God at work, influencing the 4 beasts. That's why they all played a role in Jerusalem.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not even disputing the existance of an adversary demonic spirit..i'm merely pointing out that the luciferian doctrine doesn't preach that lucifer is the 'son of lucifer' as you suggested.

also, checking the hebrew transliteration of
Deuteronomy 32:8
ר l·msphr to·number-of בְּ נֵי bni sons-of יִ שְׂ רָ אֵ ל ishral Israel

even if it said 'sons of God', bene elohim is a subjective term. the israelites called themselves bene elohim yet later angels are called bene elohim. why? it's just a term given to beings who are supposed to be close to God.


I realize that people made up parts of history to hide the truth. Which is why you say Mohammed was living in the promised land with Jews while Colombus 1000 years later was on the other side of the world looking for the promised land and assuming to have found the Garden of Eden in South America. The problem is you're not going to read the OT to see what it says about the Israelites. You're going to go by your secular knowledge and think that will guide you into understanding what the bible is talking about. It wont.

You can tell me about what the NT says, but what about the OT? Why does it say that Israel will be scattered to the ENDS of the earth? Why does it say that when they are scattered they'd lose their heritage? Why does it say that when all these things run its course and Israel turns back to obeying God, that He'd regather them AT THAT TIME? I didnt even get into the curses/blessings that should be on Israel for obedience/disobedience while who you call Jews are getting blessed (secular-wise) while in disobedience.. Of course this thread isnt about this (though it 100% is yet ANOTHER deception in the church) but when you speak of those that call themselves Jews, then this needs to be brought up. Biblically speaking, they dont fit and wont ever fit. Just because you were taught it was them, doesnt mean they are and you could see that if you ever dared to actually read what the OT says about the Israelites in the last days and see who it fits most.


I don't recall saying Mohammed was living in the promised land. The jews during his lifetime were living in Jerusalem having established a jewish commonwealth state. I mentioned this because you were talking about modern israel as a 'blessing' and im pointing out that the jews established a state in the 7th century, which was destroyed and led to worse conditions for the jews in the byzantine and sassanid empires.
how can you perceive something as a blessing without understanding it's wider implications?
So going back to the OT in the context of modern israel, it blatantly says in Ezekiel 38 it will become a desolate land. So that leads me to believe modern israel won't exist when it happens, so how is modern israel a blessing?
However it is also important to point out that the relevancy of jews returning to jerusalem in the 7th century with messianic ideas, in the context of Deuteronomy's 'punishments for disobedience' makes more sense why islam/Mohammad 'manifested'. As in, the jews planted the seeds, yet didnt eat the fruit, their enemy, the ishmaelites did.

Also im talking about jews whilst you're referring to the 10 lost tribes who were scattered. The punishment for disobedience context only applies to those who hold the torah as their ideal and fail to live by it's standards. If someone is a member of the tribe living in china with no knowledge of his origins, that person doesnt hold the torah as a standard and therefore isnt bound by it's rules.
it's the people actually believing in the Torah as their standard who fall by it.
Eg the jews rejected Jesus as their messiah..and sought a davidic/moses like figure to bring about the messianic kingdom. think of that as the 'seed' they planted..and it came to fruition as Mohammad, an arab..as per the deuteronomy promise of punishment.

On the otherhand you believe the lost tribes of israel as the blacks. The problem with that one is, the lost tribes were scattered EAST beyond the SABAH river.
The blacks in America, most of them originate from a small part of WEST africa.
The only reason you think this is because blacks have been enslaved in the US for 400 years. However those blacks were enslaved due to the colonial project which incidently occured as a fulfillment to THE BOOK OF REVELATION prophecies (revelation 6, the first horseman).

All in all, you're kind of all over the place and don't know what it is you're trying to say. No offense.
My only real point was that Lucifarians don't believe Jesus is the son of lucifer and it was a mistranslation of the song that may have suggested that. I wouldnt defend the catholics though, they're def dodgy.

As for making up history, the language of the bible, which you use...is not from your people but from those same 'fake jews' therefore why do you even follow the bible? how do you know what's real or fake?
 





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@KoncreteMind
As I posted before, it doesnt matter who they call Jesus or Lucifer. If what they're saying is NOT in accordance with the Law and the Prophets then I am told to NOT follow or believe it. Its really that simple. And since I have the Law and the Prophets (at least to some extent) in front of me, I can read it, study it, and pray on it so that I can guard myself against falsehoods that might creep in. The catholic church is luciferian and they dont even hide it particularly

Thing is, it's not about you/your beliefs but theirs. If you're telling me they're LUCIFERIAN then surely it would make sense to understand luciferian belief? As i said, they do not regard lucifer to be greater than the Logos/Christ. They do not regard lucifer as the Absolute God, but a component of God, which again is very much in line with Revelation 2. The only issue with luciferians is that they attach duality of good and evil to lucifer and therefore assertain that 'satan' is the other side of lucifer and therefore basically channel and worship satan as that same component of God. It's a sneaky way to justify a form of satan worship whereby they are taught false ideas under the illusion of 'good'. For example whatever type of satanic entity it is that comes to them, calling himself 'lucifer' in whatever beautiful form, tells them to establish a global government. The absolute bloodbath of the early 20th century inc the bolshevik revolution and the holocoast, were just part of sacrificing human life to give life a global thoughtform that serves their material agenda. It's created by people who want power and wealth and this thoughtform, feeding off global energy in turn rewards those people. Their only job is to feed off human energy and serve 'the agenda' and in turn it attacks those people who don't serve it. So if you serve a religion for good, you stand opposed to the material agenda and do not give it your sexual and life energy.
The luciferian side to this is that these people follow the material agenda with an overall image/idea in mind of the world they wish tocreate, believing it to be 'good'.

Huh? Thats like asking someone "how does one determine what is in tune with this science book in front of me?" How else would you determine it other than reading/studying it and praying on it while comparing it to whatever it may be. Seems simple enough to me..

Well no because science is objective truth, except the hypothesis it serves ie how it's interpreted which is subjective. Religion is usually the otherway round, it is subjective truth that's designed in a way that allows people, usually in collective ignorance to believe in it as if it's objective truth.

The reason i brought it up is because you're telling me the OT is the authority (for you) and you give little thought to anything else. Yet Jesus had his OT and there were sadducees, pharisees and other sects with different interpretations of the bible. The philosopher Philo for example had his interpretation of the Torah through the lens of greek philosophy.

Well first off The Most High is called the King of Israel instead of "King of andromedia galaxy. It simply states that He is the king of a human nation that already had a human king over it. If this can be said about Israel, why cant this be said about other nations? In fact, why does Deuteronomy 32:8 (in some translations at least) say God chose Israel and gave other nations to the sons of God? How can a human king detain an angel? Why is an angel calling for backup to fight a human king? Heck here are King Cyrus' names according to wiki:

The Israelites didn't have a king, that is why GOD was called their KING. However the israelites demanded they get a king just like other nations have kings, so they got Saul.

Daniel 10 says
13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia


Are you confusing the king of Babylon with the king of Persia?
Isaiah 14 was about the king of babylon and in that context the term 'Morning star/lucifer' was used. So you went on to suggest Daniel 10 as an example of an adversary at work..but babylon and persia weren't the same. Persia took over babylon through Cyrus the great later, after Daniel. That's why im assuming Cyris was 'the prince' mentioned in Daniel 10 and his father was king. However it couldf be that Cyrus was the king and Darius was the prince?

Remember, Cyrus the great was 'good' by biblical standards.
This is why i don't imagine some spiritual war where michael and gabriel were at war against an ADVERSARY. I imagine they were trying to plant the right seeds in Cyrus(or Darius) to inspire him to work on God's plan. Hence

Isaiah 45
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,



Now the 4 beasts of Daniel, of which Persia was the 2nd beast, connects with the 4 directions/colours/chariots in Zechariah 6

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=zechariah+6&version=KJ21

2 In the first chariot were red horses, and in the second chariot black horses,
3 and in the third chariot white horses, and in the fourth chariot grizzled and bay horses.
5 And the angel answered and said unto me, “These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country, and the white go forth after them, and the grizzled go forth toward the south country.


Zechariah was around at the time of Cyrus and Darius.. Going from Zech 6, persia representing the second, the 'black horses' has to
"go forth into the north country"
The 'north country' in the context of judea, was babylon. So Cyrus/darius would have to go into babylon.

"“These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth."
Rather than suggest there was an adversary spirit behind the 4 beasts, we're learning that there were 4 spirits of God at work, influencing the 4 beasts. That's why they all played a role in Jerusalem.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not even disputing the existance of an adversary demonic spirit..i'm merely pointing out that the luciferian doctrine doesn't preach that lucifer is the 'son of lucifer' as you suggested.

also, checking the hebrew transliteration of
Deuteronomy 32:8
ר l·msphr to·number-of בְּ נֵי bni sons-of יִ שְׂ רָ אֵ ל ishral Israel

even if it said 'sons of God', bene elohim is a subjective term. the israelites called themselves bene elohim yet later angels are called bene elohim. why? it's just a term given to beings who are supposed to be close to God.


I realize that people made up parts of history to hide the truth. Which is why you say Mohammed was living in the promised land with Jews while Colombus 1000 years later was on the other side of the world looking for the promised land and assuming to have found the Garden of Eden in South America. The problem is you're not going to read the OT to see what it says about the Israelites. You're going to go by your secular knowledge and think that will guide you into understanding what the bible is talking about. It wont.

You can tell me about what the NT says, but what about the OT? Why does it say that Israel will be scattered to the ENDS of the earth? Why does it say that when they are scattered they'd lose their heritage? Why does it say that when all these things run its course and Israel turns back to obeying God, that He'd regather them AT THAT TIME? I didnt even get into the curses/blessings that should be on Israel for obedience/disobedience while who you call Jews are getting blessed (secular-wise) while in disobedience.. Of course this thread isnt about this (though it 100% is yet ANOTHER deception in the church) but when you speak of those that call themselves Jews, then this needs to be brought up. Biblically speaking, they dont fit and wont ever fit. Just because you were taught it was them, doesnt mean they are and you could see that if you ever dared to actually read what the OT says about the Israelites in the last days and see who it fits most.

I don't recall saying Mohammed was living in the promised land. The jews during his lifetime were living in Jerusalem having established a jewish commonwealth state. I mentioned this because you were talking about modern israel as a 'blessing' and im pointing out that the jews established a state in the 7th century, which was destroyed and led to worse conditions for the jews in the byzantine and sassanid empires.
how can you perceive something as a blessing without understanding it's wider implications?
So going back to the OT in the context of modern israel, it blatantly says in Ezekiel 38 it will become a desolate land. So that leads me to believe modern israel won't exist when it happens, so how is modern israel a blessing?
However it is also important to point out that the relevancy of jews returning to jerusalem in the 7th century with messianic ideas, in the context of Deuteronomy's 'punishments for disobedience' makes more sense why islam/Mohammad 'manifested'. As in, the jews planted the seeds, yet didnt eat the fruit, their enemy, the ishmaelites did.

Also im talking about jews whilst you're referring to the 10 lost tribes who were scattered. The punishment for disobedience context only applies to those who hold the torah as their ideal and fail to live by it's standards. If someone is a member of the tribe living in china with no knowledge of his origins, that person doesnt hold the torah as a standard and therefore isnt bound by it's rules.
it's the people actually believing in the Torah as their standard who fall by it.
Eg the jews rejected Jesus as their messiah..and sought a davidic/moses like figure to bring about the messianic kingdom. think of that as the 'seed' they planted..and it came to fruition as Mohammad, an arab..as per the deuteronomy promise of punishment.

On the otherhand you believe the lost tribes of israel as the blacks. The problem with that one is, the lost tribes were scattered EAST beyond the SABAH river.
The blacks in America, most of them originate from a small part of WEST africa.
The only reason you think this is because blacks have been enslaved in the US for 400 years. However those blacks were enslaved due to the colonial project which incidently occured as a fulfillment to THE BOOK OF REVELATION prophecies (revelation 6, the first horseman).

All in all, you're kind of all over the place and don't know what it is you're trying to say. No offense.
My only real point was that Lucifarians don't believe Jesus is the son of lucifer and it was a mistranslation of the song that may have suggested that. I wouldnt defend the catholics though, they're def dodgy.

As for making up history, the language of the bible, which you use...is not from your people but from those same 'fake jews' therefore why do you even follow the bible? how do you know what's real or fake?
-I actually went back and watched the video I posted and remembered that they put the Latin words the church was singing so people could look it up themselves. Theres nothing to argue about anymore concerning my original point of the deception in the church being Jesus himself. They were singing about christ being the son of Lucifer. Your explanation changed from "morning star is from God" (which I agree with Job 38:7) to it now being a mistranslation. No matter which way you put Lucifer to mean, it doesnt mean the Creator.

-My reason for posting Daniel 10, Isaiah 14, and Ezekiel 28 was to show that there are spiritual powers behind all these nations. Thats why Israel can have a king and STILL call God the King of Israel (its in Isaiah if you're wondering). Right now you can go up and conjure a spirit that would offer you guidance. In the same way so can leaders of society. So thats how I believe Gabriel can say that he was detained by who YOU call a human king. Thats how I believe he can say that he needed help fighting who YOU call a human king. Thats why Ezekiel 28 says something about a HUMAN KING being there in the garden of eden. Because Its not about the human representation but the spirit behind it... That spirit behind these nations are a SATAN to Israelites. Which is why I originally said (I think dont even remember how we got here to be honest lol) Nebuchadnezzar was SATAN (i.e. adversary) to Israel. And specifically in regards to the "prince vs king" aspect. Even David was referred to as a prince AND king. When mentioned as "prince" its in regards to the Most High's kingship. I never said anything about the king of Persia and Babylon being the same.

-As far as history is concerned, Im not going to go by what you're told today after people could get their narrative together. Im going to go by what they said at that time. Colombus was alive around the 1400's and instead of assuming the garden of Eden was somewhere around Africa/Middle East, he was in South America looking for it. When you talk about language, he brought a Hebrew translator with him to the Americas. Arron Montezinos said he found people in Ecuador or Peru reciting the Shema. When it comes to black people being from west Africa, I can show you historical depictions of "black people" in places they shouldnt have been because the slave trade hadnt happened yet. Pick a South Central American country and put "Afro" in front of it and you'll find black people there. They didnt get to all these countries in high numbers because of slave ships... There was an indian mound with Hebrew symbols found in Ohio. Alexander the Great's tomb was (allegedly) found in Illinois. Egyptian artifacts have been found in Illinois and the Grand Canyons. The Grand Canyon artifacts in particular being of a descendant of Zaphnath (Joseph's Egyptian name in the bible). The history you're told about and the history that actually happened are at times two different things. Ultimately, Deuteronomy 28 says that the curses spoken of would rest on the descendants of Israel as a SIGN. The only conclusion with that is that whoever the curses fit the most are the people of the book. Since you wont address that or any of what I said above I dont really see a point in continuing.

And the reason black people are like a blind man groping at the darkness for their heritage is because nations such as the one you come from banded together to wipe them out from remembrance (Psalm 83). You denying to do the research and instead continuing to push your narratives is only a spiritual and unconscious (or possibly conscious) fulfillment of whats mentioned in that chapter, mainly this

Psalm 83
4 “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation,
so that Israel’s name is remembered no more.”
5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
 





Lisa

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Does contending for the faith have to be divisive?

Jesus said, “Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division” (Luke 12:51-53). His ministry brought division wherever He went (John 7:43; 9:16). It was separating those who wanted to pursue the truth from those who did not and wanted the error influenced by their religious leaders. Separation becomes THE Issue in the end.

http://www.letusreason.org/discern7.htm
 





Lisa

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If I were to say to you that much of the church today has set aside the power of God, would you be shocked? After all, we live in a time where having the power of God in your life is a major theme preached from pulpits across the country. And book after book, sold in massive quantities, pour off the presses promising a special connection or intimacy with God that will revolutionize your life and make it more dynamic. Yet, I believe I can prove that, in fact, the power of God is being laid aside, and I will tell you how.
https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=30196
 





Lisa

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By Roger Oakland
While I am certain there are many more, the following ten trends provide a good overview of what is taking place in the church today:

Ecumenical unity at any cost, yet completely void of any connection to the message that Jesus died on the Cross.

The church-growth movement, which is focused on a market-driven seeker-friendly Christianity emphasizing a megachurch mentality.

A Christianity focused on following men, their methods, and their movements.

A Jesuit agenda promoted by publishers and pastors proclaiming the teachings and ideas of Roman Catholic church fathers and Roman Catholic mystics.

The rejection of biblical creation and the acceptance of theistic evolution and progressive creation.

The acceptance of New Age ancient Babylonian practices such as yoga and contemplative prayer as a means of “getting closer to Jesus.”

A false Christianity that substitutes the Gospel according to the Scriptures with a social gospel.

The “Purpose-driven P.E.A.C.E. Plan” that prepares the church for a global one-world religion.

An experience-based “Christianity” that seeks after signs and wonders and rejects the biblical warnings of a Last Days spiritual deception found in the Bible.

The New Age belief that man is a “co-creator” and that every person has divinity within him.


It is not my objective to place these various trends in their order of importance. The fact is, each one is occurring, and the vast majority of professing Christians are not even aware these trends are happening or even that there is a problem.

Biblical Christianity is under attack like it has never been before. We are not only on a “slippery slope”—Christianity is ready to fall off the cliff. As Jesus asked in Luke 18:8: “[W]hen the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?”

Current events indicate the pathway to apostasy is leading exactly in the direction foretold by the Scriptures.

https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=30690
 





Lisa

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State of the church today

Being a Survivor of the apostasy

Listening to prophets instead of the prophecy in the Bible will mislead you. Listening to teachers distortions of the Bible will also mislead you. I can guarantee this is what will take place for many according to God’s word.

This is exactly what Jesus warned of taking place in the last days, this is why he said a number of times “see to it no one deceives,” to his disciples which echoes down the corridors of time to us today.

Is the majority of the church, a whole new generation about to be deceived? We have the new revivalism taking place all over again. This is a warning to all who will hear.

It was Benny Hinn who started this whole flawed concept of impartation of anointing and revival to an already open Church seeking an experience. He introduce Rodney Browne who infected so many. From Toronto to Brownsville to Lakeland with Todd Bentley to what is taking place today at the send and the new revival fire of Brownsville

The adoration of man has prevented the church from resisting the many false teachers inside. There is nothing wrong with admiration or respect of a person’s work that is accordance with the word but when these men and their words become more important than the words of Jesus - watch out.

The youth knew no better and because they are unlearned on these matters and cannot discern, they were unable to learn from modern Church history and walked into it because their pastors knew nothing about it either.

When the word is not being taught or explained, people get hunger pains and begin to search for food elsewhere. Because of Spiritual starvation they will pick up scraps wherever they can, even if it’s not Christianity. They become scavengers who lack that discernment, they don’t know any better because they have not been taught doctrine correctly so they are willing to accept anything that seems to have protein.

The church has Levels of luxury and comfort unseen before in history and it is eating away at her from within. This is the church that boasts of its prosperity and effectiveness. “I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing.” Yet Jesus sees what is really taking place and his response is “and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked.” Laodicea had no commendation only rebuke. It is the only church Jesus has absolutely nothing good to say about. So he tells them “Therefore be zealous and repent.” “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.” He doesn’t give up on them, he is faithful while they are faithless.

I have little hope for those who are the leaders, but have hope for those who follow.

These are perilous times for those who want to live Godly and follow the Word of God. In these days we all need to examine ourselves to see where we are continuing in the faith. Has our love continued to grow for the brethren or grown cold? Do things that once mattered to us still matter? Are we willing to lose friends to side with the truth? Has the world removed us from our relationship with Christ? Has our church or a teacher we have been listening to increased our relationship to Jesus Christ or gained our affection more than Jesus Christ and his words?

Do we still not understand that Satan is a supernatural being and angel of the highest magnitude. Whatever the Devil can produce to deceive people, even if there are some benefits, he will use it.
http://www.letusreason.org/Doct167.htm