The Biblical Case for a “Pre-Tribulation” Rapture

phipps

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I entertained a Rapturist woman to tea once and asked her to explain what "The Rapture" was.
She said it meant that some people will disappear into thin air off to heaven, leaving everybody else looking round wondering where they've gone.
So I asked her what would happen if some airliner pilots and bus, train and car drivers disappeared like that, wouldn't the driverless planes and vehicles all crash and cause death and destruction?
"Yes" she replied, "but it can't be helped".
So from that moment I decided that the Rapture was just a load of hogwash nonsense cooked up by vanity cultists who like to think they know more than the rest of us poor slobs..:)
Hence the warning-
"Don't get carried away by strange teachings" (Bible: Hebrews 13:9)
Exactly, it doesn't make sense based on the Bible and how its written. We would be told about the secret rapture and details of it so we would not be deceived. But there is nothing about it in the Bible.
 
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Tidal

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Exactly, it doesn't make sense based on the Bible and how its written. We would be told details of the secret rapture so we would not be deceived.

And incidentally that Rapture-Cult woman who I mentioned earlier said to me- "Did you know that airline companies always make sure that there's an atheist or nonchristian included in the flight crew, so that if the christian pilot is raptured off to heaven, there'll be somebody left behind to take over the controls and prevent a crash"
I'm still trying to work out if she was joking with me as a prank..:)
 

Tidal

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Anyway the Bible is quite clear that in order to get to heaven our bodies have to die first, we don't just "vanish off" to heaven as Rapturists claim.. :)
As Jesus said to the man dying on the cross next to him- "Today you'll be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:41)

When our bodies die our souls go into a temporary "sleep"-
"Don't grieve for those asleep, for they sleep in Jesus" (1 Thess 4:13/14)

Then-
Jesus said:- All in the graves shall come out.."(John 5:28/29)....."Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life" (Matt 25:46)

It can be regarded as the final phase in human spiritual evolution, when we transcend into purely spiritual beings-
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:42-50)

 
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Red Sky at Morning

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In the CHAZ, the police have moved out and anarchy has moved in. What people are seeing there is, in miniature, a glimpse of a prophecy of what will happen across the world after the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit is removed one day:-

 
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phipps

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Anyway the Bible is quite clear that in order to get to heaven our bodies have to die first, we don't just "vanish off" to heaven as Rapturists claim.. :)
As Jesus said to the man dying on the cross next to him- "Today you'll be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:41)

When our bodies die our souls go into a temporary "sleep"-
"Don't grieve for those asleep, for they sleep in Jesus" (1 Thess 4:13/14)

Then-
Jesus said:- All in the graves shall come out.."(John 5:28/29)....."Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life" (Matt 25:46)

It can be regarded as the final phase in human spiritual evolution, when we transcend into purely spiritual beings-
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:42-50)

Anyway the Bible is quite clear that in order to get to heaven our bodies have to die first, we don't just "vanish off" to heaven as Rapturists claim.. :)
Biblically we do not have to die to go to heaven. We have examples of Enoch (Genesis 5:21-24) and Elijah (2 Kings 2:11) who went to heaven alive. Also the Bible tells us that when Jesus returns the second time, He will find people who are alive here on earth both righteous and unrighteous. The righteous will never die like Enoch and Elijah.

Matthew 24:30, "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Revelation 1:7, "Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen."


Dead people cannot see. Those who will be alive will be the ones that see and witness Jesus' second coming.

As Jesus said to the man dying on the cross next to him- "Today you'll be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:41)
Jesus told the man on the cross that he will be saved that day, not that the man had to die in order to go to heaven. When Jesus comes back He will raise the righteous dead and they with those who are found alive will meet Him in the air and forever be with Him (1 Thessalonians 4:17) and that will include the man on the cross.

It can be regarded as the final phase in human spiritual evolution, when we transcend into purely spiritual beings-
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:42-50)
According to the Bible we will have physical bodies and always will have them through eternity. Our bodies will transformed into immortal bodies free from disease, pain and death (1 Corinthians 15:40-49), but we will always have physical bodies.

The body of Jesus after His resurrection was physical. Jesus said:, "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have” (Luke 24:39). The Bible also says: "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself" (Philippians 3:20-021).
 
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Tidal

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...According to the Bible we will have physical bodies and always will have them through eternity..

Check your monitor settings mate, you must have missed seeing this verse which I quoted-
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:42-50)

And here's another two in similar vein-
Jesus said- "The spirit within gives life, the flesh alone is worthless" (John 6:63 )
Jesus said - "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:24)


To sum up therefore, God is a pure spirit in a spiritual realm, so it naturally follows that for us to join him there we have to shed our squishy fleshy bodies and become spiritual beings too.
Personally I DON'T WANT to be trapped in a boring fleshy body in a boring material world forever..:)

In scientific terms, our bodies are like "spacesuits" which our souls must wear in order to get around on this material planet, that's why Jesus had to don a new body in order to come back for a temporary visit after his resurrection.
i know there are some cults who think we resurrect to a "new earth" in new bodies, but I prefer to follow Jesus clean off this planet once and for all..
:)

Jesus said- "You know the way to the place where I am going.”
Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:2/6)





 

phipps

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@Tidal

Check your monitor settings mate, you must have missed seeing this verse which I quoted-
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:42-50)
These verses are not saying we will not have physical bodies, if they were, they would be contradicting the Bible. These verses are saying there is a difference between the body which fell and that which rises. Sin changed our bodies and our very natures. Therefore, when we enter the paradise of Eden restored, our bodies will be changed so we can fully enjoy the perfection of heaven. “Flesh and blood” is only a figure of speech referring to the human body on this earth (see Matthew 16:17; Galatians 1:16, 17; Ephesians 6:12). Christ, in His resurrected body, declared that He was truly “flesh and bones” (Luke 24:39). And according to Philippians 3:21, we will have bodies like His.

I also did not base what I posted about us having physical bodies in heaven just based on one or two verses. I base it on what the Bible says in more than one place that makes it clear we will have bodies. I already posted what Philippians 3:20-021 says,"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself" and Luke 24:39 "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” Don't ignore these verses that clearly say we will have physical bodies that will be transformed like Christ's.

I will add what else the Bible tells us will happen in heaven and the New Earth for eternity.

1. Isaiah 65:21-22, "They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands." According to the Bible, the saved will build their own homes in the New Kingdom. They will plant vineyards and eat the fruit from them. The Bible is plain about this: Real people with physical bodies do real things in heaven, and they will thoroughly enjoy it all. Spiritual beings do not have flesh and bones as Jesus said in Luke 24:39.

2. There will be young children in heaven (Isaiah 11:6–9, Zechariah 8:5, Malachi 4:2), and they will grow up. Ever since the fall of man, we have degenerated much in stature, intellect, and vitality, but all of this will be restored! (Acts 3:20-21).

3. There will be animals in heaven (Isaiah 11:6–9; Isaiah 65:25), they will have physical bodies too. Some of the animals that we consider dangerous will even play with little children according to these verses.

The saved will also:

a, Sing and play heavenly music (Isaiah 35:10; 51:11; Psalm 87:7; Revelation 14:2-3).

b, Enjoy never-fading flowers and trees (Ezekiel 47:12; Isaiah 35:1-2).

c, Visit with loved ones, ancestors, Bible characters, etc. (Matthew 8:11; Revelation 7:9–17).

d, Study the animals of paradise (Isaiah 11:6–9; 65:25).

e, Travel and explore without ever becoming weary (Isaiah 40:31).

f, See Jesus face to face (Revelation 14:4; 22:4; 21:3; 1 John 3:2).

g, And worship before God’s throne every month and every week on the Sabbath (Isaiah 66:22-23).

All these things and more will happen with people who have physical bodies otherwise there wouldn't be much point to them would there?

And here's another two in similar vein-
Jesus said- "The spirit within gives life, the flesh alone is worthless" (John 6:63 )
Jesus said - "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:24)
We worship God in spirit now don't we? And we do it when we have physical bodies. So we will do the same in the New Kingdom.

To sum up therefore, God is a pure spirit in a spiritual realm, so it naturally follows that for us to join him there we have to shed our squishy fleshy bodies and become spiritual beings too.
Personally I DON'T WANT to be trapped in a boring fleshy body in a boring material world forever..:)
It doesn't make sense when it contradicts the Bible. And we won't have boring anything in heaven. Everything about us will be transformed according to the Bible. Form our bodies to our minds to our gifts etc. Paul wrote,
"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him” (1 Corinthians 2:9). Not even in our wildest dreams can we begin to comprehend the wonders of God’s eternal kingdom. Boring is not a word that should be associated with heaven.

In scientific terms, our bodies are like "spacesuits" which our souls must wear in order to get around on this material planet, that's why Jesus had to don a new body in order to come back for a temporary visit after his resurrection.
i know there are some cults who think we resurrect to a "new earth" in new bodies, but I prefer to follow Jesus clean off this planet once and for all..
Not according to the Bible. Jesus did not have a new body nor does the Bible say so. Don't make things up about God's Word please. Its not cultist to believe what the Word of God says after having studied it on a particular subject and it plainly shows how the saints will have physical bodies and build homes, plant and have vineyards and gardens, eat, travel etc.

The saved will be given bodies like the body of Christ and will be physical people with flesh and bone throughout eternity. The difference will be that our heavenly bodies will not be subject to deterioration and death. The teaching that the saved in heaven will be merely spirits has no foundation in the Bible.

Jesus said- "You know the way to the place where I am going.”
Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:2/6)
We have to accept His way, truth and life as is written in His Word or we won't make it to the New Kingdom and enjoy all that He has prepared for us for all eternity.
 
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Lisa

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Could the Rapture happen today
Did the rapture happen the day you posted that? Since it didn’t could it really happen any day? Or does 2 Thessalonians 2:3 come into play at any time in the pre trib rapture..the man of lawlessness must be revealed first?
 

TokiEl

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“Apostasia”

ἀποστασία Strong's G646 - apostasia The KJV translates Strong's G646 in the following manner: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).


Feminine of the same as ἀποστάσιον (G647) The KJV translates Strong's G647 in the following manner: divorcement (2x), writing of divorcement (1x).

 

Red Sky at Morning

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ἀποστασία Strong's G646 - apostasia The KJV translates Strong's G646 in the following manner: to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).


Feminine of the same as ἀποστάσιον (G647) The KJV translates Strong's G647 in the following manner: divorcement (2x), writing of divorcement (1x).

Falling away / departure - depending on context
 

floss

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Not saying I'm a pretribber, but I did like my Pastor's explanation regarding pretrib rapture. He said once all the saved born again believer are raptured, prayers of the saints ceased to exist, thus allowing the darkness to consume the Earth. It will begin the apocalypse and only the 144k Jews will be left to preach the Gospel. He said the Christians won't be the one God used for this end time tasks. I hope he's right, but as always I prep for Post-Trib and crossed my finger for Pre-Trib, no need to argue or pick side ;) ... beam me up Lord :p
 

Lisa

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Not saying I'm a pretribber, but I did like my Pastor's explanation regarding pretrib rapture. He said once all the saved born again believer are raptured, prayers of the saints ceased to exist, thus allowing the darkness to consume the Earth. It will begin the apocalypse and only the 144k Jews will be left to preach the Gospel. He said the Christians won't be the one God used for this end time tasks. I hope he's right, but as always I prep for Post-Trib and crossed my finger for Pre-Trib, no need to argue or pick side ;) ... beam me up Lord :p
Do you think you’ll be around for the antichrist to be revealed?
 

floss

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Do you think you’ll be around for the antichrist to be revealed?
Yes, I'm prepping a few essentials in order to survive the A/C persecutions (this make more sense to me). It's like playing the last stage of a game. However, I don't mind getting beam up before all that as well. This is the one doctrine that I don't mind either side are right.
 

Lisa

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Yes, I'm prepping a few essentials in order to survive the A/C persecutions (this make more sense to me). It's like playing the last stage of a game. However, I don't mind getting beam up before all that as well.
Hopefully you’ll be home or wherever to use them..

Revelation‬ ‭13:10‬ ‭
If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.”
 

floss

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Hopefully you’ll be home or wherever to use them..

Revelation‬ ‭13:10‬ ‭
If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.”
I don't think anyone will be safe at their home, during the final hours, when God allowed the A/C (and minions) to execute Christians for a short amount of time. With these Contact Tracing, I believe you gotta be off the grid in order to survive the GT, else the "zombies" will come after you. Better work on my cardio :D
 
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