The Biblical Case for a “Pre-Tribulation” Rapture

[Red Sky at Morning]

So he says 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 doesn’t actually say God blows the trumpet but we will say He does. So he’s just trying to make the verse fit a narrative.

Then he talks about it was wrong to try to figure a date because we just don’t know..duh! And then he say let’s look for an event and he’s going off on some sort of tangent...and I can’t listen anymore.

What event should we look for? Hmmm..maybe the one that gets the temple rebuilt? Because in the middle of the treaty that gets it rebuilt..the antichrist is revealed. God isn’t coming before any of this but 3.5 years after this event and the antichrist is revealed. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 talks about how the event of the rapture won’t happen until The apostasy and the man of lawlessness/anti is revealed.
Idk..maybe this guy gets to that I. The later part of the video but I doubt it. That’s the most blatant event to look for imo.

I think the event he noticed was broadly Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17 concerning Damascus, which is the context of Zech 9.

 

[Thunderian]

Isn't the A/C (and minions) going to execute Christians throughout the whole world and you're telling me Jesus only warn the Jews?

Don’t forget the 144,000, the two witnesses, and the angels flying through the sky broadcasting the gospel. The warning is for the Jews because some of them need to remain alive. That’s why they are told to run, will be shielded in their hiding place, and those who give them help will be specially blessed. Christians can only expect to be slaughtered. There is no shelter or warning for Christians in the Tribulation, because our warning has already been issued, and our shelter is Jesus Christ.

 

[Thunderian]

@Thunderian @Lisa
I think it's come down to who you believe to be the Elects of God.

The elect always means believers. Sometimes it’s Jews, and sometimes it’s Christians. It depends on the context.

 

[Lisa]

I think the event he noticed was broadly Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17 concerning Damascus, which is the context of Zech 9.

He should switch to waiting for the rebuilt temple.

 

[floss]

Don’t forget the 144,000, the two witnesses, and the angels flying through the sky broadcasting the gospel. The warning is for the Jews because some of them need to remain alive. That’s why they are told to run, will be shielded in their hiding place, and those who give them help will be specially blessed. Christians can only expect to be slaughtered. There is no shelter or warning for Christians in the Tribulation, because our warning has already been issued, and our shelter is Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure why @Lisa liked this comment from you. She's post trib? That's what I was saying, you can't really be a posttribber and believe these warning are for the Jews only. There seem to be only two options who these warning are for:
1. Jews only - PreTribber
2. Christians worldwide - PostTribber

 

[Thunderian]

I'm not sure why @Lisa liked this comment from you. She's post trib? That's what I was saying, you can't really be a posttribber and believe these warning are for the Jews only. There seem to be only two options who these warning are for:
1. Jews only - PreTribber
2. Christians worldwide - PostTribber

Maybe I’ve convinced her.

 

[Lisa]

I'm not sure why @Lisa liked this comment from you. She's post trib? That's what I was saying, you can't really be a posttribber and believe these warning are for the Jews only. There seem to be only two options who these warning are for:
1. Jews only - PreTribber
2. Christians worldwide - PostTribber

Why can’t I be a pre wrath and believe the warning to flee was to the Jews? The warning shifted to the Jews because now that the anti stopped the offerings he was going after them...makes sense.

Christians worldwide have the warnings already for the entire time period in the Bible..we are after all the only ones that read the whole Bible...

 

[floss]

Why can’t I be a pre wrath and believe the warning to flee was to the Jews? The warning shifted to the Jews because now that the anti stopped the offerings he was going after them...makes sense.

Christians worldwide have the warnings already for the entire time period in the Bible..we are after all the only ones that read the whole Bible...

So the warning only applied to the Jews because those are the only folks the AC will be going after? How do you distinguish which warning are for who? What are your criteria? Do you believe "flee to the mountain" were literal or figurative?

 

[Lisa]

So the warning only applied to the Jews because those are the only folks the AC will be going after? How do you distinguish which warning are for who? What are your criteria? Do you believe "flee to the mountain" were literal or figurative?

No..but in context..he’s in Jerusalem where the temple is..he stops the sacrifices..declares himself God and goes after Christians..in Jerusalem? He goes after the Jews which is why Jesus warned them to flee. I believe flee to the mountains is literal..but I have never been there so I’m not for sure. However..I’m sure flee is literal. Don’t stop to get anything is literal.

I think one needs to think things through..like I just did...thinking about scripture..praying for wisdom also isn’t a bad thing.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Jesus frequently used imagery of first century Jewish weddings when talking about his return. I had no idea of the significance of that symbolism till I watched the following film (preview version below):-

 

[floss]

@Thunderian
“And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:13-14‬ ‭KJVAE‬‬

are these the 144k or white robed multitude?

 

[Lisa]

@Thunderian
“And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:13-14‬ ‭KJVAE‬‬

are these the 144k or white robed multitude?

​

Revelation‬ ‭6:9-11‬ ‭​

When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

Revelation 6:9-11 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried | New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) | Download The Bible App Now

When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried

www.bible.com

 

[Thunderian]

@Thunderian
“And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:13-14‬ ‭KJVAE‬‬

are these the 144k or white robed multitude?

The 144,000 have the seal of God on them and cannot be harmed. Those in white robes in Revelation 7 are believers who have been martyred for Christ during the Tribulation.

 

[floss]

The 144,000 have the seal of God on them and cannot be harmed. Those in white robes in Revelation 7 are believers who have been martyred for Christ during the Tribulation.

Are they all newly converts via 144k then?

 

[TokiEl]

Rev 20 4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.



Christians will be killed for their faith and for refusing the mark of the beast... but look they are part of the first resurrection.

And you may know that the dead in Christ will rise first... then we who are alive will be caught up...

 

[floss]

Rev 20 4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.



Christians will be killed for their faith and for refusing the mark of the beast... but look they are part of the first resurrection.

And you may know that the dead in Christ will rise first... then we who are alive will be caught up...

So you're saying Christians are going through the tribulation and those that made it alive will be caught up with the Lord in the air?

 

[Lisa]

So you're saying Christians are going through the tribulation and those that made it alive will be caught up with the Lord in the air?

But the dead rose first..

Are they all newly converts via 144k then?

Those are two different groups. The 144,000 are clearly Jews as they were chosen by the 12 tribes. The martyrs under the alter are Christians. Though I know you don’t care that I answer you and you didn’t ask me.

 

[floss]

But the dead rose first..



Those are two different groups. The 144,000 are clearly Jews as they were chosen by the 12 tribes. The martyrs under the alter are Christians. Though I know you don’t care that I answer you and you didn’t ask me.

That's what I'm asking Thunderian. The Christians martyrs during the GT, are they all newly converts via the 144k Jews since all previous Christians are supposedly raptured already per Pre-Trib.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

That's what I'm asking Thunderian. The Christians martyrs during the GT, are they all newly converts via the 144k Jews since all previous Christians are supposedly raptured already per Pre-Trib.

I believe God wanted to teach the nations something of Himself via the Jews. It seems at least plausible that He would use them to communicate the Gospel of the Kingdom to the world during the Tribulation. A good many people who scorn the Gospel right now way get the shock of their lives after the Rapture. It’s my hope that many will realise their mistake, repent and defy the AC system.

 

[Thunderian]

Are they all newly converts via 144k then?

They are anyone who has accepted Christ after the Church has been raptured.