The Biblical Case for a “Pre-Tribulation” Rapture

[phipps]

Nothing is ever going to change the fact that the Bible does not mention a rapture before Jesus' second coming and the church being raptured before the tribulation. And if these events are not mentioned in God's message to us (the Bible) how can anyone say those events are going to happen? How do they know? Where did this doctrine come from? One thing is for sure, its not from God.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

From your previous messages, one of the key assumptions you bring to the discussion is that the Church has now replaced Israel in Gods plans. It is interesting what that doctrine does to the assurance of salvation or those who think it through and still embrace it. Fall short and you too will be cut off...

For an alternative perspective that may just change your life, I offer the following talk, again by (an older) David Hocking.

 

[TokiEl]

Who are the 24 elders ? Well there were 12 sons and 12 apostles of Jacob/Israel and so it would be surprising if the 24 elders were anybody else.

So since John was transported into the throne room of Heaven where the elders were in Rev 4 then the resurrection/rapture must happen before the breaking of the 1st seal in Rev 6 ? Well we will wait and see won't we ?

What is an absolute surety is that there is no rapture before the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

 

[phipps]

I have been debating with myself whether I should post more on this subject because I'm aware some people think I'm competing and want to be right at any cost, but I've decided to go ahead and post more whatever some may think. If even one person sees that pre-tribulation is not compatible with the Bible and goes and studies the Word of God and finds out God's truth then posting what I'm going to post will be worth it. Its all about God at the end of the day. I will ignore whatever anyone thinks of me. I can't do anything about that.

I will post on how many times Jesus comes to this earth according to the Bible.

Biblically Jesus comes to this world three times.

1. The First time is when He came as a Baby till He was 33. Why? To be our example, to show us how to dedicate our lives to Him and the Father completely but the main reason obviously was to save us. He could only do that by dying in our place for our sins so we didn't have to, if we accepted Him as our personal saviour. I'm not going to say much about this first time Jesus came to earth because most Christians know and agree with what the Bible says about it.

2. The second time Jesus returns to earth is what causes a lot of problems amongst Christians. Most Christians agree He is coming back this time but some say Christ will rapture the church before the tribulation then come this second time with the saints. This is not biblical as I have posted in this forum. Its not written of anywhere in the Bible. Its important we understand what will happen when Christ returns the second time so we are not deceived. The Bible tells us:

a. Why Jesus is coming back the second time.

Shortly before He left this earth, Jesus said to His disciples, "In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.” (John 14:2). This is the language the ancient Hebrews used to describe a wedding. In Bible times, it was customary for the man to build a honeymoon chamber at his father’s house before he claimed his bride. So, in essence, Jesus said to His disciples, “In my Father’s house are many honeymoon chambers.”

Do you think that after all this work, Jesus will forget His bride, His people? Of course not! That’s why He said, “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also" (verse 3).

A bridegroom comes to get his bride because he wants to be with her. Jesus is coming back because He wants to be with you and me, and He wants us to be with Him. There’s no better reason for His second coming than that!

b. What manner He will return in.

“When He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven’ ” (Acts 1:9–11).

Jesus will return to this earth in the same manner that He left—in a visible, literal, bodily, personal manner. Matthew 24:30 says, “They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” He will come in the clouds literally, as a personal being with a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:36-43, 50-51). His coming will be visible; Scripture is clear on these facts!

c. He won't come back alone

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory” (Matthew 25:31).

Do you know how many angels there are? The apostle John said that there are “thousands upon thousands of angels” and “ten thousand times ten thousand” (Revelation 5:11; Daniel 7:10). That isn’t a mathematical formula, but it suggests that there are billions of angels in heaven. And they will all accompany Jesus when He returns.

d. There will be people who are alive when Jesus comes the second time.

Jesus said, “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.” And John the revelator said, “Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him” (Matthew 24:30; Revelation 1:7). Both the righteous and unrighteous who are still alive will be on earth to witness Jesus coming back.

e. What will happen to the wicked when Jesus comes?

When Jesus rose from the dead, an angel rolled away the stone. The Bible says that the glory of this one angel made a group of Rome’s bravest soldiers fall down in shock like dead men (Matthew 28:2-4). Now think of the billions of angels who’ll return with Jesus! The apostle Paul said that the wicked will be destroyed “by the splendour of his coming” (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Those who are rebelliously clinging to sin when Jesus comes will perish from His radiant glory.

f. What will happen to the righteous dead people at the second coming of Jesus?

Jesus said that “a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned” (John 5:28-29). So there will be two resurrections. Revelation says, “Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection.” That’s obviously the resurrection of those “who have done good.” And “the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.” So those who have done evil won’t be resurrected until the end of the 1000 years (Revelation 20:5-6).

g. What will happen to the righteous living people when Jesus comes the second time?

Speaking of that day, the apostle Paul said that “we shall all be changed.” And he explained how: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:51, 53). In this life every human being who ever lived is doomed to die. But when Jesus comes, He will give His people immortality so they will never die!

In another place Paul said that at Christ’s coming, He will “transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body” (Philippians 3:21). Jesus had a real physical body after His resurrection (Luke 24:39–42; John 20:27), and so will we.

h. What happens after they’ve been changed?

The apostle Paul said that they will be “caught up together . . . in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so [they] will be with the Lord forever” (1 Thessalonians 4:17). This is the rapture and there will only be one where all the saints will be caught up in the air and forever be with Christ. The rapture will not happen before the tribulation, it will happen when Jesus returns after the tribulation.

Jesus told His disciples that He was going away to prepare a place for them, and then He promised that He would “come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am” (John 14:3). Where is Jesus today? In heaven, as our High Priest (Hebrews 8:1–5). And He’ll take us to be with Him in those heavenly dwelling places He has gone to prepare.

i. How will Christ’s second coming affect the earth itself?

“There was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. … Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found” (Revelation 16:18, 20).

“I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness, and all its cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord” (Jeremiah 4:26).

“The Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste. … The land shall be entirely emptied” (Isaiah 24:1, 3).

The earth will be seized by a great earthquake at the coming of the Lord. This earthquake will be so devastating that it will leave the world in a state of total destruction.

j. Can we know anything about the time of Jesus’ return?

Yes and No. Jesus said, “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.” (Matthew 24:36). I’ve heard about people who’ve tried to pinpoint the time of Christ’s return, but so far every one of them has failed.

Nevertheless, Jesus did say we can know when His return is near : “When you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door” (verse 33). The Bible gives specific information regarding the nearness of Christ's second coming: Great Persecution, Tribulation (Matthew 24:21), Sun Turned into Darkness (Matthew 24:29), Stars Fall from Heaven (Matthew 24:29), Jesus Comes in the Clouds, “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” (Matthew 24:30).

k. How can we know when we have reached the very last days of earth’s history? Does the Bible describe the world and its people in the last generation?

Yes. Look at the following signs of the last days. And these are just a few of many signs that show we are in the closing days of earth’s history.

Wars and Commotions (Luke 21:9), Unrest, Fear, and Upheaval (Luke 21:25-26), Increase of Knowledge (Daniel 12:4), Scoffers and Religious Sceptics (2 Peter 3:3, 2 Timothy 4:3, 4 ), Moral Degeneracy, Decline of Spirituality (2 Timothy 3:1–3, 5), Craze for Pleasure
(2 Timothy 3:1, 2, 4), Increasing Lawlessness, Bloody Crimes, and Violence (Matthew 24:12, 2 Timothy 3:13, Ezekiel 7:23), Natural Disaster and Upheaval (Luke 21:11, 25), A Special Message to the World in the Last Days, “This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come” (Matthew 24:14), A Turning to Spiritism (1 Timothy 4:1, Revelation 16:14), Capital Labour Trouble (James 5:4, 8).

l. Just how near is the Lord’s second coming?

“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place” (Matthew 24:32-34).

The Bible is very specific and plain on this point. Almost all the signs have been fulfilled. We cannot know the day and hour of Christ’s return (Matthew 24:36), but we can know that His coming is near. God has promised to finish things very quickly now (Romans 9:28). Christ is coming back to this earth for His people soon.

m. Satan is telling many falsehoods regarding the second coming of Christ and, with lying wonders and miracles, will deceive millions. How can we be certain we will not be deceived?

“To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isaiah 8:20).

“They are spirits of demons, performing signs [miracles]” (Revelation 16:14).

“False christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24).

Satan has invented many false teachings about the second coming and is deceiving millions into believing that Christ has already come or that He will come in a manner not consistent with the Bible’s teachings. But Christ has warned us of Satan’s strategy, saying, “Take heed that no one deceives you” (Matthew 24:4). He has exposed Satan’s falsehoods so we can be forewarned, and He reminds us, “See, I have told you beforehand” (Matthew 24:25). For example, Jesus stated specifically that He will not appear in the desert or come to a séance chamber (verse 26). There is no reason to be deceived if we learn what God teaches about Christ’s second coming. People who know what the Bible says about the second coming will not be led astray by Satan. All others will be deceived.

 

[phipps]

Continued...

3. The third time Jesus returns to earth. I will post about the millennium and the third time Christ returns to earth according to the Bible. Some of the events that happen at Christ's third advent are mistaken to happen at the second advent.

Since Revelation is filled with so many strange symbols and mysteries, we might expect its account of the millennium to be a riddle too. Instead, we find a relatively simple sequence of events. The millennium will begin with the second coming of Christ. Revelation 20:4 says of God’s people, “They lived [came alive] and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” So it’s only when God’s people “come to life” in the resurrection at Jesus’ second coming that Revelation’s millennium can begin.

Jesus will take these resurrected people to heaven along with all of His followers who live to see Him come, and everyone will spend the 1000 years in heaven with Him. John 14:1-3 suggests this sequence of events. Jesus told His disciples that He would soon be leaving them to be with His Father and this worried them. But He assured them, “I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also” (verse 3). Jesus is now in heaven, of course, and when He returns, He will take us there to be with Him.

But what about the others (the unrighteous)? They will remain on planet Earth, slain by the brightness of Jesus’ second coming (2 Thessalonians 1:6–10; 2:8). “The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished” (Revelation 20:5). Just like the one angel appeared at Jesus’ tomb and the entire group of Roman guards fell as dead men (Matthew 28:2, 4), the brightness of all the angels (billions of them), plus that of Christ, will hit the unsaved as if by lightning. The wicked dead will remain in their graves until the end of the 1,000 years.

Satan’s fate

Where will Satan be during the millennium? Revelation 20:1-3 says, “I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit. ... He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit ... till the thousand years were finished.” The 1000 years (the millennium) designates Satan’s time on death row.

The saved will all be in heaven and the unrighteous will all be dead for the millennium, so Satan will have no one to deceive, torment or tempt. Satan will pass the time contemplating his crimes, pondering lost opportunities and awaiting execution. He will have 1000 years to behold the results of his rebellion against God!

Revelation 20:4 says there will be a judgment in heaven during the 1,000 years. What for? Who will participate?

“I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. ... And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4).

“Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? ... Do you not know that we shall judge angels?” (1 Corinthians 6:2-3).

The saved from all ages will participate in the judgment during the 1,000 years. The cases of all who are lost, including the devil and his angels, will be reviewed. This judgment will clear up any questions the saved might have about those who were lost.

In the end, all will see that people are shut out of heaven only if they did not really want to live like Jesus or to be with Him.

Many believe the unsaved will have an opportunity to repent during the 1,000 years. What does the Bible say about this?

“The slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground” (Jeremiah 25:33).

"I beheld, and indeed there was no man” (Jeremiah 4:25).

It will be impossible for any person to repent during the 1,000 years because there will not be a person alive on the earth. The righteous will all be in heaven. All the wicked will be laying dead upon the earth. Also Revelation 22:11-12 makes it clear that the case of every person is closed before Jesus returns. Those who wait to accept Christ until the 1,000 years begin will have waited too long. Revelation 20:5 says that “But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.”

During the 1,000 years, every soul who has ever lived on earth will be in one of two places: (1) on the earth, dead and lost, or (2) in heaven, taking part in the judgment.

At the close of the 1,000 years, the holy city, New Jerusalem, will come down from heaven to this earth (this is the third advent of Christ). Who will come with it? Where will it settle?

“I ... saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. ... And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, ‘Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men’ ” (Revelation 21:2-3).

“Behold, the day of the Lord is coming. ... And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two. ... Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You. ... All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem” (Zechariah 14:1, 4-5, 10).

The New Jerusalem will settle where the mount of Olives now stands. The mountain will be flattened to make a great plain, upon which the city will come to rest. All of the righteous people of all ages (Zechariah 14:5), the angels of heaven (Matthew 25:31), God the Father (Revelation 21:2-3), and God the Son (Matthew 25:31) will return to the earth with the holy city for Jesus’ special third coming. The second coming will be for His saints, while the third will be with His saints.

What will happen to the wicked dead at this time? How will this affect Satan?

“The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. ... When the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations” (Revelation 20:5, 7, 8).

At the close of the 1,000 years (when Jesus comes the third time), the wicked will be raised. Satan, loosed from his bonds, he will then have an earth full of people (all the nations of the world) to deceive again.

What will Satan do then?

“Satan will … go out to deceive the nations … of the earth … to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city” (Revelation 20:7-9).

Satan, true to his nature, will immediately begin lying to the people left on the earth—the wicked from all ages. He may claim that the city is really his, that he was unjustly deposed from the heavenly kingdom, that God is power hungry and ruthless. He will convince them that, if they unify, God does not have a chance. With the entire world against one city, victory will likely appear certain to them. The nations will then unite and marshal their armies to surround the New Jerusalem.

What will interrupt Satan’s plan to capture or destroy the city?

“Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into ... the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death” (Revelation 20:9-10; 21:8).

“ ‘The wicked ... shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,’ says the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 4:3).

Fire will suddenly come down from heaven (not up from hell, as many believe) upon the wicked and all will be turned into ashes, including the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). This fire that destroys sin and sinners is called the second death. There is no resurrection from this death. It is final. Notice that the devil will not be tending the fire, as is commonly believed. He will be in it, and it will put him out of existence.

When the wicked are burned up and the fire goes out, what glorious, thrilling event will take place next?

“Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth” (Isaiah 65:17).

“Look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells” (2 Peter 3:13).

“He who sat on the throne said, ‘Behold, I make all things new’ ” (Revelation 21:5).

“The tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God” (Revelation 21:3).

God will create new heavens and a new earth, and the New Jerusalem will be the capital city of the earth made new. Sin and its ugliness will be gone forever. God’s people will at long last receive the kingdom promised to them. “They shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away” (Isaiah 35:10). It’s simply too fabulous to describe and too glorious to miss!

Link and link.

 

[phipps]

The rapture, pre-tribulation & last day events

There are some other points to consider when seeing if the “secret rapture” (the rapture before Jesus returns the second time) and pre-tribulation understanding fits into the last events of earth’s history as outlined in the Bible:

The notion that the tribulation will occur after Christ comes for the church is glaringly inconsistent with 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3, which says, "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition." This makes it plain that the antichrist is revealed before Jesus comes and is destroyed by the brightness of His coming. "And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Thus, as we have seen, the teaching of the secret rapture is not found in line with what the Bible teaches about the Second Coming of Jesus.

How old is the rapture theory?

Historically, the belief in the secret rapture is relatively new. Many of the notable Christian leaders of the faith understood from the Bible that Christ’s coming would be a literal, audible, glorious event for God’s persecuted people who would be raptured after they endured the great tribulation brought about by the antichrist including:

John Bunyan, John Calvin, Adam Clarke, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Finney, Matthew Henry, John Huss, John Knox, Hugh Latimer, C.S. Lewis, Martin Luther, D.L. Moody, George Mueller, Sir Isaac Newton, John Newton, Charles Spurgeon, William Tyndale, Isaac Watts, Charles Wesley, John Wesley, George Whitefield, William Wilberforce, John Wycliffe, Ulrich Zwingli, and many others.

​

Of course, the truth of a teaching is not dependent upon who believes it, but whether or not it is in line with all of the Scriptures.

 

[TokiEl]

The notion that the tribulation will occur after Christ comes for the church is glaringly inconsistent with 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3, which says, "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition." This makes it plain that the antichrist is revealed before Jesus comes and is destroyed by the brightness of His coming. "And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming" (2 Thessalonians 2:8).

Yes well the Antichrist has been revealed.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

2 Thessalonians 2 (KJV)

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away [translated as either “departure” or “apostasy”] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

 

[phipps]

2 Thessalonians 2 (KJV)

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away [translated as either “departure” or “apostasy”] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

You know this is not biblical now. The Bible tells us everything that will happen at Jesus' second coming except when He will return. We know how he will return (every eye shall see Him, every ear shall hear Him), the events that will happen (great earthquake etc), who is coming with Him, who will meet Him in the air, what will happen to the wicked etc.

The rapture will happen after Jesus returns the second time according to the Bible and that is when He will take His people back to heaven with Him. God's people will not be in heaven before He returns. The Bible tells us Jesus will be coming back for His people the second time. Then they will go to heaven with Christ. There is no rapture before Jesus returns the second time in the Bible that is why its not written of anywhere in the Word of God. Pre-rapture, pre-tribulation is not from the Bible as you know. This is the truth of God's Word.

 

[phipps]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2345031979147450

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You know this is not biblical now. It is not even written about at all.

Come on @phipps - I wouldn’t be posting up bible studies on the Rapture that paid no attention to scripture. I suggest you watch some if you are interested in the reasons why I find this view the most likely.

 

[phipps]

Come on @phipps - I wouldn’t be posting up bible studies on the Rapture that paid no attention to scripture. I suggest you watch some if you are interested in the reasons why I find this view the most likely.

There is no pre-rapture and pre-tribulation in the Bible and you know that because you failed to find any scripture that says directly anything about those events. And if nothing is said about them, it means those events aren't going to happen. Such important events would be mentioned if they were really going to happen because they are about the eternal lives of God's people. All important events are written of directly in the Bible and not assumed from scripture as pre-rapture and pre-tribulation are. Those people you listen to may be sincere but they are wrong. They are not speaking according to God's Word whether they know it or not. I will pray for you to accept God's biblical truths. I believe you now know its a false doctrine. God bless.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

There is not pre-rapture and pre-tribulation in the Bible and you know that because you failed to find any scripture that says directly any7thing about those events. And if nothing is said about pre-rapture and pre-tribulation, it means those events aren't going to happen. such important events would be mentioned if they were really going to happen. All important events and written of directly in the Bible and not assumed from scripture as pre-rapture and pre-tribulation are. Those people you listen to may be sincere but they are wrong. They are not speaking according to God's Word whether they know it or not. I will pray for you to accept God's biblical truths. I believe you now know its a false doctrine. God bless.

Au contraire @phipps

I believe that the pre-trib rapture certainly is in the Bible. I have hoped I’m the previous things I have posted to demonstrate my reasons for taking that view and do not accept your assessment of it being unbiblical.

By the same rule, would you be able to prove to me from one verse that Jesus was also God or that the Trinity is taught in scripture?

 

[phipps]

Au contraire @phipps

I believe that the pre-trib rapture certainly is in the Bible. I have hoped I’m the previous things I have posted to demonstrate my reasons for taking that view and do not accept your assessment of it being unbiblical.

By the same rule, would you be able to prove to me from one verse that Jesus was also God or that the Trinity is taught in scripture?

The only thing you've proved is you believe a non biblical doctrine. You keep using how we can't prove Jesus is God and about the Trinity but they can proved from the Bible. They are written of in the Bible that is why we know about Jesus as God and of the Godhead as three separate Persons.

But no matter how long I study the Bible, I will never find anything written about pretrib. It is not even hinted about. If pretrib is true then can you answer these questions please?

Where is pretrib and pre rapture written of in the Bible specifically?

How will these events happen?

How will God's people be pre-raptured?

Does Jesus come for them and if He does, doesn't that mean He will return in two phases?

Will the angels come for then or will Jesus rapture them from heaven?

Where will they be when Jesus comes back the second time?

Who then is Jesus coming for the second time? According to the Bible He is coming for His people, those that are alive and those that dead in the graves. Here is scripture I have posted a lot here but will post again because you keep ignoring it.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54, Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

Hebrews 9:28, "To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation."

Do you disagree with this scripture?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Another study worth considering....

As the OP states, I (and others if they want to) will be setting out the evidence they find which leads them to take a pre-trib view. Many of the resources I have posted up go into substantial detail and cover the questions you ask above.

As I have invited you to do before @phipps why don’t you make a positive case for the view you find most compelling in a thread that reflects your doctrinal position.

As you seem to accept Adventist teachings which most evangelical Christians regard politely as “heterodox”, perhaps a thread from your perspective might at least help others understand your thought process better, regardless of whether they reach the same conclusions?

 

[phipps]

Another study worth considering....

As the OP states, I (and others if they want to) will be setting out the evidence they find which leads them to take a pre-trib view. Many of the resources I have posted up go into substantial detail and cover the questions you ask above.

The Op doesn't show evidence of the questions I asked you. Can you please answer my questions and stop dodging them? Please show me biblical scripture that explains the questions I asked. I will post them again.

Where is pretrib and pre rapture written of in the Bible specifically?

How will these events happen?

How will God's people be pre-raptured?

Does Jesus come for them and if He does, doesn't that mean He will return in two phases?

Will the angels come for then or will Jesus rapture them from heaven?

Where will they be when Jesus comes back the second time?

Who then is Jesus coming for the second time? According to the Bible He is coming for His people, those that are alive and those that dead in the graves. Here is scripture I have posted a lot here but will post again because you keep ignoring it.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54, Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

Hebrews 9:28, "To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation."

Do you disagree with this scripture?

As I have invited you to do before @phipps why don’t you make a positive case for the view you find most compelling in a thread that reflects your doctrinal position.

You started this thread with the title, "The Biblical Case for a “Pre-Tribulation” Rapture". So please show me proof from the Bible of Pre-trib? I don't think I asked for a lot.

As you seem to accept Adventist teachings which most evangelical Christians regard politely as “heterodox”, perhaps a thread from your perspective might at least help others understand your thought process better, regardless of whether they reach the same conclusions?

Again you are making this about Adventism (you do this when you have no answer), but this is about the Bible, about what God's Word says. I have shown in this thread why Pre trib is not biblical (so I don't need to start a thread with a biblical perspective, I'm always about biblical perspective) but you haven't proved that Pre trib is biblical according to the title. The verses you posted do not specifically talk about Pre-trib that is why I asked you to show me scripture from the Old and New Testaments that talk about the Pre trib. Please show me direct Scripture that says God's people are going to be raptured before the second coming and also about the pre-tribulation. All you have to do is quote me scripture. That's all.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You started this thread with the title, "The Biblical Case for a “Pre-Tribulation” Rapture". So please show me proof from the Bible of Pre-trib? I don't think I asked for a lot.

Ok - I feel weary of this.

I have posted up a series of resources I have found persuasive. Those resources exhaustively demonstrate a biblical case for a pre-trib rapture. You have shown no interest in the information presented in them. That’s all there is to it. Farewell.

With respect:

 

[phipps]

Ok - I feel weary of this.

I have posted up a series of resources I have found persuasive. Those resources exhaustively demonstrate a biblical case for a pre-trib rapture. You have shown no interest in the information presented in them. That’s all there is to it. Farewell.

With respect:

View attachment 38262

The series of resources you posted have no biblical scripture that specifically talk about pre trib or pre rapture in the Bible do they? I know you can't provide such scripture because it doesn't exist in the Bible. That is why you can't answer my questions. Not once does the Bible mention them. It is completely false and was introduced to protestantism by Jesuits. That is where dispensationalism comes from. It is satanic (I know this is harsh but its the truth). It veers away from biblical truth. Seeing that the pre rapture or secret rapture is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible, how do you even begin to rationalise it? I will pray that you accept biblical truth because its what matters not what man made doctrine says no matter how popular it is. I pray the same for all of us including me.

I will end with what one Pastor said. He said, "The Secret Rapture is so secret, the Bible doesn't know anything about it."

 

[HonuWorld777]

And if you understand that we (human consciousness) are the sheep of the Shepard, thus we are the food source. Thus, Issa, (Jesus) the good Shepard shall return and free us from the wolves who are in sheep clothing and their masters.

 

[Tidal]

I entertained a Rapturist woman to tea once and asked her to explain what "The Rapture" was.
She said it meant that some people will disappear into thin air off to heaven, leaving everybody else looking round wondering where they've gone.
So I asked her what would happen if some airliner pilots and bus, train and car drivers disappeared like that, wouldn't the driverless planes and vehicles all crash and cause death and destruction?
"Yes" she replied, "but it can't be helped".
So from that moment I decided that the Rapture was just a load of hogwash nonsense cooked up by vanity cultists who like to think they know more than the rest of us poor slobs..
Hence the warning-
"Don't get carried away by strange teachings" (Bible: Hebrews 13:9)