On the Trinity:

[bible_student]

I have looked at the Jah Truth website that was linked multiple times in this thread and it's based on that assessment that I firmly reject the movement's teachings as I find it to contradict the Bible and Jesus's words himself. I've given a few of my reasons before and I see no reason to continue to flog a dead horse with this topic. I apologise if you found my responses "emotional", although I'm hard-pressed to see why if I'm honest. But all said in good faith. I'm confident in my walk with the Lord and I continue to humbly ask for His guidance and discernment in all things. God bless.

Hi Robin,
Thank-you for your reply and good wishes. Understood.
It's not uncommon for emotions to start coming up when having discussions like this. It was also not meant as singling you out, but rather as a general statement. We all have to guard against it, because human emotion clouds the ability to think, consider and see things clearly.
Thank you and likewise, God Bless.

 

[Phithx]

I had no idea that implying someone is a sockpuppet was considered feminist unladylike behaviour, @Phithx. Does Jah say anything about internet etiquette becoming of a woman? I cannot reconcile the Koran with the Bible as there are directly contradicting scriptures. Good for this lady but your sudden promotion of a woman doesn't do anything to change my opinion of what you've said so far in this area, nor will it get me to reconsider anything. I have my beliefs and convictions based on what I've seen of your site and what you've espoused here as well. I reject your movement based on doctrine, not my perception of how lowly you think of women. No malice intended, of course. If we're done now, I'll take my leave from this conversation in as ladylike a fashion as I can muster.

Understood, and hope you have a good day too, thank-you for wishing me earlier in your posts, and God bless.

If you don't mind I'd already uploaded these 2 Britannia pages for you before your reply came in, and we have limited bandwidth so pity to waste it. And it's such a phenomenal story that others reading this may be interested?

https://britanniaidentified.wordpress.com/ Better quality PDF at the link.

 

[bible_student]

@Artful Revealer

Acts
12:5 Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing by the community unto God for him.
12:6 And when Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains: and the keepers before the door kept the prison.
12:7 And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon [him], and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from [his] hands.
12:8 And the angel said unto him, Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did. And he saith unto him, Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me.
12:9 And he went out, and followed him; and knew not that it was true which was done by the angel; but thought he saw a vision.
12:10 When they were past the first and the second ward, they came unto the iron gate that leadeth unto the city; which opened to them of his own accord: and they went out, and passed on through one street; and forthwith the angel departed from him.

12:17 But he, beckoning unto them with the hand to hold their peace, declared unto them how the Lord had brought him out of the prison.

 

[elsbet]

King of kings' Bible
Ecclesiastes
7:26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart [is] snares and nets, [and] her hands [as] binders: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her.
7:27 Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, [weighing] one thing after another, to find out the reason:
7:28 Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.
7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many tricks.

LOL! It is you, who is trying to trick the readers.

That excerpt you posted from Ecclesiastes was written by King Solomon.

​

1 Kings 11​

King Solomon married many foreign women besides the daughter of Pharaoh: women from Moab, Ammon, Edom, and Sidonia, along with Hittite women, too, all of them from nations that the Lord had ordered the Israelis, “You are not to associate with them and they are not to associate with you, because they will most certainly turn your affections away to follow their gods.”​

-.-

 

[Phithx]

LOL! It is you, who is trying to trick the readers.

That excerpt you posted from Ecclesiastes was written by King Solomon.

​

1 Kings 11​

King Solomon married many foreign women besides the daughter of Pharaoh: women from Moab, Ammon, Edom, and Sidonia, along with Hittite women, too, all of them from nations that the Lord had ordered the Israelis, “You are not to associate with them and they are not to associate with you, because they will most certainly turn your affections away to follow their gods.”​

-.-

King of king's Bible 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[bible_student]

King of kings' Bible, Exodus
23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to [do] evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to agree falsely with the majority and thereby pervert [judgment]:

 

[A Freeman]

OK.
JAH clearly teaches a different, works based “gospel” that seeks to undermine the significance of the Atonement and elevate the Qur’an to one of equality with the Bible. As both these are pretty fundamental, I think I would rather trust the Lord Jesus Christ to be my way home and leave the fire to Him.

Doesn't the Gospel (Good News Message) actually teach that we will all be judged according to our works?

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, THAT shall he also reap.

Ephesians 2:8-10
2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good WORKS, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them (do them - good works).

Revelation 20:12-13
20:12 And I saw the "Dead", small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another Book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life: and the "Dead" were judged out of those things which were written in the Books, according to their works.
20:13 And the "sea" gave up the "Dead" which were in it; and deathand hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.

James 2:14-26
2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding YE give them NOT those things which the body has need of; what good have ye done?
2:17 Even so FAITH, if it hath not WORKS, is DEAD, being alone.
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will SHOW thee my faith BY my works.
2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils (liars) also believe, and tremble.
2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain (worthless) man, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS is DEAD?
2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar (and God made him your example)?
2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and BY WORKS was faith (trust in God) MADE PERFECT?
2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed ONLY God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
2:24 Ye see then how that by WORKS a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.
2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by WORKS, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.

So who is it that is really teaching a different Gospel? Wouldn't that be anyone who is trying to con people into thinking they won't be judged according to their works?

Isn't that the "quick and easy path" of organized religion that Christ warned us about (Matt. 7:13-14)? How will the world ever get any better if no one has the courage to take action against evil?

"All that's required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."
--Edmund Burke

These things are being shared in the hope of helping others awaken to one very simple, life-saving fact: our salvation depends upon us seeking the truth with ALL of our heart, mind, soul and strength (Jer. 29:13, Matt. 7:7-8). That requires ACTION, beginning with reading what the Scriptures actually say, and then DOING that.

If everyone was making that effort, this world would transform in an instant into the heaven on earth it was always meant to be. At which time we would all be learning all of these amazing things together, instead of doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

 

[elsbet]

King of king's Bible 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Indeed, but that has nothing to do with your post.

Misusing and perverting it, as you are, by pulling it out of context, to mean something it doesn't--> for your own purposes, is wrong.

​

2 PETER 3:16​

Some parts of his (Paul's) letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.​

From Ellicott, on the last part:

​

"Be on your guard against being led astray by interpretations contrary to the spirit of the gospel."​

Damning all women because one doesn't agree with your beliefs-- if that doesn't scream Cult, nothing does-- it is contrary to the Spirit of the Gospel. If you have to use lies and insults to (attempt to) intimidate people, into believing what you believe--> you really ought to re-examine those beliefs.

 

[elsbet]

Doesn't the Gospel (Good News Message) actually teach that we will all be judge according to our works?

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, THAT shall he also reap.

Ephesians 2:8-10
2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good WORKS, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them (do them - good works).

Revelation 20:12-13
20:12 And I saw the "Dead", small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another Book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life: and the "Dead" were judged out of those things which were written in the Books, according to their works.
20:13 And the "sea" gave up the "Dead" which were in it; and deathand hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.

James 2:14-26
2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding YE give them NOT those things which the body has need of; what good have ye done?
2:17 Even so FAITH, if it hath not WORKS, is DEAD, being alone.
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will SHOW thee my faith BY my works.
2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils (liars) also believe, and tremble.
2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain (worthless) man, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS is DEAD?
2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar (and God made him your example)?
2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and BY WORKS was faith (trust in God) MADE PERFECT?
2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed ONLY God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
2:24 Ye see then how that by WORKS a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.
2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by WORKS, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.

So who is it that is really teaching a different Gospel? Wouldn't that be anyone who is trying to con people into thinking they won't be judged according to their works?

Isn't that the "quick and easy path" of organized religion that Christ warned us about (Matt. 7:13-14)? How will the world ever get any better if no one has the courage to take action against evil?

"All that's required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."
--Edmund Burke

These things are being shared in the hope of helping others awaken to one very simple, life-saving fact: our salvation depends upon us seeking the truth with ALL of our heart, mind, soul and strength (Jer. 29:13, Matt. 7:7-8). That requires ACTION, beginning with reading what the Scriptures actually say, and then DOING that.

If everyone was making that effort, this world would transform in an instant into the heaven on earth it was always meant to be. At which time we would all be learning all of these amazing things together, instead of doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.

You set a wretched example, unfortunately, with your own works, by twisting scripture and repeatedly insulting women, calling them evil.

 

[Phithx]

Indeed, but that has nothing to do with your post.

Misusing and perverting it, as you are, by pulling it out of context, to mean something it doesn't--> for your own purposes, is wrong.

​

2 PETER 3:16​

Some parts of his (Paul's) letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.​

From Ellicott, on the last part:

​

"Be on your guard against being led astray by interpretations contrary to the spirit of the gospel."​

Damning all women because one doesn't agree with your beliefs-- if that doesn't scream Cult, nothing does-- it is contrary to the Spirit of the Gospel. If you have to use lies and insults to (attempt to) intimidate people, into believing what you believe--> you really ought to re-examine those beliefs.

Take note that men are also damned: that's why we all need a Saviour. This is the key: The Way home or face The Fire

King of kings' Bible
Excerpt from Philip's Gospel (at end of Thomas)
If the woman had not separated from the man, and had not gone apart from him to talk to Satan, deciding to believe Satan in preference to God, thereby calling God the liar, she would not die with and have caused the man to die. His separation through worshipping the woman first rather than God became the beginning of death. Because of this Christ came, in order that he might remove the separation which was from the beginning, and again unite the two; and that he might give life to those who died in the separation, and unite them (in serving God). But the woman is united to the man in the "Bridal Chamber". Only those who have united in "The Bridal Chamber" (of God) will no longer be separated. Because of this Eve separated from Adam, because she was not united to him in the "Bridal Chamber" of God, and went to serve Satan in his world where he comes between man and woman and between both of them and God.

 

[bible_student]

@Artful Revealer

Paul:

Acts
27:21 But after long abstinence Paul stood forth in the midst of them, and said, Sirs, ye should have hearkened unto me, and not have loosed from Crete, and to have gained this harm and loss.
27:22 And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of [any man's] life among you, but of the ship.
27:23 For there stood by me this night the angel of God, Whose I am, and Whom I serve,
27:24 Saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee.

Again, there is no mention of a trinity.

 

[Artful Revealer]

@bible_student

I'm not really getting your point. Jesus Christ was the Logos incarnate. You seem to compare the Logos to an angel. The Logos is God facing His creation, bringing form to the formless, bringing order in chaos, including the soul, with the Word. It is God entering human history in the form of Jesus. It is not a separate identity, it's God himself, not one of his angels.

No problem if you don't get with the program, but this is essentially the heart of Christian revelation, and the heart of the trinity, which you don't seem to comprehend.

 

[bible_student]

@bible_student

I'm not really getting your point. Jesus Christ was the Logos incarnate. You seem to compare the Logos to an angel. The Logos is God facing His creation, bringing form to the formless, bringing order in chaos, including the soul, with the Word. It is God entering human history in the form of Jesus. It is not a separate identity, it's God himself, not one his angels.

No problem if you don't get with the program, but this is essentially the heart of Christian revelation, and the heart of the trinity, which you don't seem to comprehend.

If it makes sense to you that Jesus Christ was actually talking to Himself all of the time instead of to his Father as He was saying, then ok, that is your view. But I find that a very strange view to have about Christ, Who as we know, is not a liar.

1 Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

 

[Robin]

If it makes sense to you that Jesus Christ was actually talking to Himself all of the time instead of to his Father as He was saying, then ok, that is your view. But I find that a very strange view to have about Christ, Who as we know, is not a liar.

1 Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Job 11:7
"Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?"

I would imagine that something as divine as the nature of God Himself might be beyond our human logic to comprehend. I imagine there would be no adequate earthly reference around which to anchor our understanding. People can call it a cop-out but it's true - and if the Trinity is a man-made concept then I really cannot understand why it was chosen as it is an extremely confusing concept. If the purpose was to mislead then a far simpler creed would've made more sense.

 

[bible_student]

Job 11:7
"Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?"

I would imagine that something as divine as the nature of God Himself might be beyond our human logic to comprehend. I imagine there would be no adequate earthly reference around which to anchor our understanding. People can call it a cop-out but it's true - and if the Trinity is a man-made concept then I really cannot understand why it was chosen as it is an extremely confusing concept. If the purpose was to mislead then a far simpler creed would've made more sense.

Hi Robin, I commend you for having been brave enough to admit that it is confusing, unlike most. I agree. Most whom I have personally encountered won't, instead, what they choose to do is infer that if you find the trinity confusing, then it is because, well see "they understand something you don't". In other words, because they are smarter, and you are dumber (or they find other ways like they are more "spiritual" or "born again" than you which is why it makes perfect sense to them and not to you). I suspect that because of this aspect, it might actually work perfectly in a catholic (or other church) setting. To divide between the so-called "more spiritual" (or are they?) ones and the lesser caste (those who "don't really get it") and then they become the ones who have to pretend that they do, when in all truth, they really don't get it (because it's actually highly confusing), otherwise they won't fit in. It's quite the set up.

To me personally, that actually makes sense as to why they would choose a confusing concept to deceive people. Because, it appeals to the religious arrogance of people. In a lot of ways... it's a bit like "flat earth"! Because then if they supposedly "get it" (? - really?) (and, of course it's so easy for them, the whole concept.. (they get it!) remember.. (or so they say). They can see it already in Genesis. But,.. not you eh? Ah. It must be because you are less spiritual than they are, or, it's because you're not born again you see, or.. etc. etc. in other words... they are smarter than you, but you - you're not part of the trinity click, those who "get it"..(- ?) So, to me it actually making perfect sense. Because the bigshots in the highest seats in the church "get it"! (are they lying?) Something like the trinity would definitely appeal to people's arrogance of wanting to be seen or viewed as "religiously superior" over and above/to the "less capable souls" or, whatever. But wait, did Christ ever say it? Did He teach it.

Thank you also for the quote, that is certainly true.

Throughout the New Testament it can be found how the Apostles kept things simple and they don't introduce new confusing concepts such as a catholic trinity. For example, Paul:

2 Corinthians
5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [let him be] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
5:18 And all things [are] of God, Who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us The Word of reconciliation.

They all stuck to what they were given and shown and all said it just like Christ said it. They didn't attempt to change it or formulate a new confusing doctrine. Paul didn't change it to a "trinity" or say that God was Christ. No. Paul just said it exactly as Christ Himself said it to the disciples (in the Gospel of John etc.), i.e., that God was in Christ. Simple. No confusing doctrine there. Just a repetition of Christ's own words.

So for me, I guess I just prefer the simplicity of Scripture itself over man-made doctrine. I find it suits me much better. God Bless & Peace be upon you.

 

[Robin]

Hi Robin, I commend you for having been brave enough to admit that it is confusing, unlike most. I agree. Most whom I have personally encountered won't, instead, what they choose to do is infer that if you find the trinity confusing, then it is because, well see "they understand something you don't". In other words, because they are smarter, and you are dumber (or they find other ways like they are more "spiritual" or "born again" than you which is why it makes perfect sense to them and not to you). I suspect that because of this aspect, it might actually work perfectly in a catholic (or other church) setting. To divide between the so-called "more spiritual" (or are they?) ones and the lesser caste (those who "don't really get it") and then they become the ones who have to pretend that they do, when in all truth, they really don't get it (because it's actually highly confusing), otherwise they won't fit in. It's quite the set up.

To me personally, that actually makes sense as to why they would choose a confusing concept to deceive people. Because, it appeals to the religious arrogance of people. In a lot of ways... it's a bit like "flat earth"! Because then if they supposedly "get it" (? - really?) (and, of course it's so easy for them, the whole concept.. (they get it!) remember.. (or so they say). They can see it already in Genesis. But,.. not you eh? Ah. It must be because you are less spiritual than they are, or, it's because you're not born again you see, or.. etc. etc. in other words... they are smarter than you, but you - you're not part of the trinity click, those who "get it"..(- ?) So, to me it actually making perfect sense. Because the bigshots in the highest seats in the church "get it"! (are they lying?) Something like the trinity would definitely appeal to people's arrogance of wanting to be seen or viewed as "religiously superior" over and above/to the "less capable souls" or, whatever. But wait, did Christ ever say it? Did He teach it.

Thank you also for the quote, that is certainly true.

Throughout the New Testament it can be found how the Apostles kept things simple and they don't introduce new confusing concepts such as a catholic trinity. For example, Paul:

2 Corinthians
5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [let him be] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
5:18 And all things [are] of God, Who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us The Word of reconciliation.

They all stuck to what they were given and shown and all said it just like Christ said it. They didn't attempt to change it or formulate a new confusing doctrine. Paul didn't change it to a "trinity" or say that God was Christ. No. Paul just said it exactly as Christ Himself said it to the disciples (in the Gospel of John etc.), i.e., that God was in Christ. Simple. No confusing doctrine there. Just a repetition of Christ's own words.

So for me, I guess I just prefer the simplicity of Scripture itself over man-made doctrine. I find it suits me much better. God Bless & Peace be upon you.

I have to say . . . I guess for me (not having had the Trinity doctrine drilled into my head from an early age) I find a compelling case in the story of Job -Job who laments that there is no mediator between man and God to plea his case of suffering despite being righteous to his Creator. A mediator would have to be fully relatable to both parties in order to "put a hand" on each of the involved and facilitate fair comunication. Fully God and fully man. Jesus is our mediator. Fortunately, our souls are not dependant on whether we've understood God's full nature or not. I find that the Gospel boasts a road to salvation that is available to even the most simple-minded and illiterate which is one of the reasons I love it so much. And the bible says much on religious arrogance -the difference between knowledge and true wisdom is humility. For the record, when I started looking into the Trinity, the most extensive and full work I think I will ever see on it was done by a man who, despite being fully convicted that it is the truth, said that anyone claiming to be able to understand it in full does not know what they are talking about. The mystery of God's nature should be humbling - not a point of arrogance and certainly not something to lord over other people.

 

[bible_student]

I have to say . . . I guess for me (not having had the Trinity doctrine drilled into my head from an early age) I find a compelling case in the story of Job -Job who laments that there is no mediator between man and God to plea his case of suffering despite being righteous to his Creator. A mediator would have to be fully relatable to both parties in order to "put a hand" on each of the involved and facilitate fair comunication. Fully God and fully man.

Humans are smelly animals. Think about what you are saying?
Numbers 23:19 God [is] not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man,

Jesus is our mediator.

In order for Christ to be our mediator, he of necessity cannot also be God Himself.
1 Timothy 2:5 For [there is] ONE God, and One mediator between God and men, the Man Jesus Christ;

Fortunately, our souls are not dependant on whether we've understood God's full nature or not. I find that the Gospel boasts a road to salvation that is available to even the most simple-minded and illiterate which is one of the reasons I love it so much. And the bible says much on religious arrogance -the difference between knowledge and true wisdom is humility.

Part of the point that was being made, is that the people who claim to understand it are not being genuine. You yourself pointed out (bravely so, and your honesty in saying it I respect) that it is an extremely confusing doctrine. Which it is (and the truth is they all know it too, they just don't have the honesty or guts to be willing to readily admit it). Do you really think they understand it? The trinity doctrine (aka the Athenasian Creed, or "the catholic faith") is written like a legal document that uses fear to make people accept it. It says if you don't fully accept it then you cannot be saved period. Not because the Bible says so, but because the pope and his church has said so. And the "daughter" (protestant) churches have carried on this tradition that came down from the "mother" church (RCC).

King of kings' Bible, Revelation
17:4 And the woman was arrayed in PURPLE (bishops) and SCARLET (cardinals) colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY (2 Thess. 2:7), BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS (her daughters) AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

For the record, when I started looking into the Trinity, the most extensive and full work I think I will ever see on it was done by a man who, despite being fully convicted that it is the truth, said that anyone claiming to be able to understand it in full does not know what they are talking about.

He is correct in saying they don't, because it doesn't make sense. It cannot, because it is contradictory and illogical and people are coaxed into accepting it using peer pressure and fear, without being able to understand it. It's the ultimate con. You can't understand it, but you must accept it and believe it, or else you (supposedly, according to them) will lose your immortal soul... (so they say, but they are liars). How does it work? The trintity doctrine says that in order to be saved you must believe the trinity doctrine. Not because the Bible says so, but because the RCC has decreed it as them supposedly being a higher authority than God's Word - the Bible. That is actually what they say. No one can understand it and that is the whole point (it's a MYSTERY - 2 Thess. 2:7) . It induces cognitive dissonance and makes a nonsense of most of the Bible, so that then people can't understand it either. Which is exactly what they have always wanted to achieve (to keep people from reading and/or being able to understand the Bible), and have worked so hard and so openly towards, throughout the known history of the RCC (if people care to remember).

The mystery of God's nature should be humbling - not a point of arrogance and certainly not something to lord over other people.

They can't lord it over other people because they themselves don't understand it, they are just pretending that they do to con the others which also shows you what they are actually doing (they are lying) and God takes a very dim view on deception.

The trinity doctrine IS extremely confusing. And what does scripture say about that? it says that God is NOT the author of confusion:

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is NOT [the author] of CONFUSION, but of peace, as in all communities of the holy people.

There is no trinity. The Bible makes it crystal clear.

 

[TokiEl]

These things are being shared in the hope of helping others awaken to one very simple, life-saving fact: our salvation depends upon us seeking the truth with ALL of our heart, mind, soul and strength (Jer. 29:13, Matt. 7:7-8). That requires ACTION, beginning with reading what the Scriptures actually say, and then DOING that.

Salvation is important.

It's so important that God from before creation chose to bleed and die for our sins... so we would have a chance to repent and be forgiven. This is grace. That God can forgive and heal anybody... one just has to look to Jesus to begin the first baby step in the walk with God.

 

[TokiEl]

Doesn't the Gospel (Good News Message) actually teach that we will all be judged according to our works?

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.

Good works like charity compassion righteousness etc etc are natural for those who are born again... since that's what the Spirit is like.

 

[TokiEl]

@bible_student

I'm not really getting your point. Jesus Christ was the Logos incarnate. You seem to compare the Logos to an angel. The Logos is God facing His creation, bringing form to the formless, bringing order in chaos, including the soul, with the Word. It is God entering human history in the form of Jesus. It is not a separate identity, it's God himself, not one his angels.

No problem if you don't get with the program, but this is essentially the heart of Christian revelation, and the heart of the trinity, which you don't seem to comprehend.

In the Old Testament when God make an appearance... it's often written as the angel of the Lord.

And that doesn't mean God is an angel... but it means God appeared as an angel.

Big difference.