On the Trinity:

[A Freeman]

Father (God) didn't appear as an Angel, all of whom Father created (including His Firstborn: Christ); Father inspired and thus spoke THROUGH the Angel that He SENT.

Just as Father inspired and thus spoke THROUGH the mouths of ALL of the prophets; that's what made them prophets.

And just as Father inspired His Anointed One (the One God Anointed - Christ) to speak THROUGH the mouth of Jesus, our flesh and blood Example (John 14:6), to be followed with every thought, word, and deed/action/WORK.

Father doesn't send Himself on errands any more than He talks to Himself, changes His Mind or limits His Power in any way at any time. His Message has always been the same, throughout the ages: obey Him ONLY (Acts 5:29).

It is Father (The Most High) Who has COMMANDED us to cease and desist from the saying and worshiping the pagan trinity or any other pagan gods. Shouldn't we start DOING what He has COMMANDED us to do for our own benefit?

 

[bible_student]

It's possible to prove with John 17:3 and common sense that the trinity (aka "the Athenasian Creed" or "the Catholic faith") is a false doctrine.

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

But the trinity doctrine cannot be understood, as the church readily admits, so to them God is unknowable.

 

[TokiEl]

Father (God) didn't appear as an Angel, all of whom Father created (including His Firstborn: Christ); Father inspired and thus spoke THROUGH the Angel that He SENT.

Just as Father inspired and thus spoke THROUGH the mouths of ALL of the prophets; that's what made them prophets.

And just as Father inspired His Anointed One (the One God Anointed - Christ) to speak THROUGH the mouth of Jesus, our flesh and blood Example (John 14:6), to be followed with every thought, word, and deed/action/WORK.

Father doesn't send Himself on errands any more than He talks to Himself, changes His Mind or limits His Power in any way at any time. His Message has always been the same, throughout the ages: obey Him ONLY (Acts 5:29).

It is Father (The Most High) Who has COMMANDED us to cease and desist from the saying and worshiping the pagan trinity or any other pagan gods. Shouldn't we start DOING what He has COMMANDED us to do for our own benefit?

The Father has given all authority in heaven and on earth to Jesus Christ.

So hear Him.

Or else face the fire...

 

[A Freeman]

The Father has given all authority in heaven and on earth to Jesus Christ.

So hear Him.

Or else face the fire...

Agreed. And thank-you for your admission that there is no trinity.

The Way home or face The Fire

 

[TokiEl]

It's possible to prove with John 17:3 and common sense that the trinity (aka "the Athenasian Creed" or "the Catholic faith") is a false doctrine.

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

But the trinity doctrine cannot be understood, as the church readily admits, so to them God is unknowable.

Forget the Father then... and start to treat the Son as God.



Matthew 28 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.


Psalm 2Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”

4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”

7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”

10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

 

[TokiEl]

Agreed. And thank-you for your admission that there is no trinity.

The Way home or face The Fire

You will either hear and obey Jesus Christ... or face the fire.

 

[Artful Revealer]

Father (God) didn't appear as an Angel, all of whom Father created (including His Firstborn: Christ); Father inspired and thus spoke THROUGH the Angel that He SENT.

Just as Father inspired and thus spoke THROUGH the mouths of ALL of the prophets; that's what made them prophets.

And just as Father inspired His Anointed One (the One God Anointed - Christ) to speak THROUGH the mouth of Jesus, our flesh and blood Example (John 14:6), to be followed with every thought, word, and deed/action/WORK.

This is from your own adulterated king of king's bible:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only incarnated Son, that whosoever believeth him should not perish, but have Everlasting Life.

You say God inspired Jesus, but the scripture in your bible says God incarnated Jesus. Is incarnation the same as inspiration then? Was the angel also incarnated when he spoke with God's inspiration? If so, how is Jesus the only incarnated Son?

If God incarnated the Son, that means God was immanent. God becoming immanent does not mean He ceases to be transcendent. Therefore, how do you explain God's immanence and transcendence at the same time without the Trinity? You can't. Ergo, your theory is flawed.

 

[bible_student]

Forget the Father then... and start to treat the Son as God.



Matthew 28 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.


Psalm 2Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”

4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”

7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”

10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

Rather, get to KNOW the Father, though hearing and following the teaching of the Son.
Only He (The Son - Jesus Christ) is able to reveal Him (The Father) to men.
You cannot forget Father, if you are remembering or hearing The Son, because They are at One. The Son wants us to learn to get to know the Father and then to also learn to be at one with Him as well as with Father (John 17). That's why Christ was sent and He came all this way to reconcile men (those who will accept Him) with The Father. That is Christ's Mission.

It's all in the Gospels, and about how it works, we get to know the Father through the hearing and following of the teaching of The Son, who is the mediator between the Father and men (His prodigal sons; Luke 15).

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son (Elijah - the "Revealer of God") will reveal [Him].

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

Christ says that to KNOW Both the Father and the Son, is to have Eternal Life.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the holy ones: here [are] they that KEEP the Commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[A Freeman]

Please see the reply to your post Artful Revealer below.

This is from your own adulterated king of king's bible:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only incarnated Son, that whosoever believeth him should not perish, but have Everlasting Life.

You say God inspired Jesus, but the scripture in your bible says God incarnated Jesus.

Did you really not read what you just quoted or are you intentionally being deceptive? It says HE* GAVE HIS ONLY INCARNATED SON...

*HE = God, our heavenly Father and Creator, Whose Name is the "I AM".

"ONLY INCARNATED = the description of God's SON.

Is incarnation the same as inspiration then?

Of course not. Unless it's your intention to redefine those words too, as has been done with dozens of other words in a vain effort to hammer the non-existent trinity delusion into the minds of those insane enough to believe in such complete and utter nonsense.

Was the angel also incarnated when he spoke with God's inspiration?

Which angel are you referring to please? If you're referring to Prince Michael, the Chief Archangel, then yes. Father's Anointed One, Prince Michael (The Messiah/Christ), incarnated the body of Jesus 2000 years ago, just as the real you are incarnating the human body you see in the mirror today.

If you're referring to any of the other angels, e.g. the Archangels Gabriel, Uriel, Raphael, Raguel, or Sarakiel, then no. None of the other Sons of God (angels/spirit-Beings, which outnumber us by a 2-1 margin - Rev. 12:3-4) have incarnated human bodies. Only Prince Michael/Christ has done that, exactly as the Scriptures say.

If so, how is Jesus the only incarnated Son?

As above please. It's perfectly clear IF it's properly understood that Jesus was the human son born of the virgin body of Mary (Son of Man). Prince Michael, Father's Firstborn Son (son of God), is the Only One of the Sons of God to incarnate a human body, hence His Role as The Master/Teacher and Mediator BETWEEN Father (God) and men.

You can't. Ergo, your theory is flawed.

Father can and did though through me, and His Theories (Ideas from God/Theos) and Explanations are NEVER flawed, nor is His Law grievous.

 

[TokiEl]

Rather, get to KNOW the Father, though hearing and following the teaching of the Son.

The Father commands you to focus on the Son.


Mark 9 1Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power.”

2After six days Jesus took with Him Peter, James, and John, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There He was transfigured before them. 3His clothes became radiantly white, brighter than any launderer on earth could bleach them. 4And Elijah and Moses appeared before them, talking with Jesus.

5Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three sheltersa : one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 6For they were all so terrified that Peter did not know what else to say.

7Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!” 8Suddenly, when they looked around, they saw no one with them except Jesus.

 

[Artful Revealer]

@A Freeman

So God spoke through Archangel Michael when he gave the law to Moses. Then God spoke through Archangel Michael who incarnated Jesus who spoke to mankind.

We ought not infer the trinity from scripture or be called antichrists, even though the trinity is contained within one verse (John 1:1). However, even though the role of Michael is nowhere to be found in the gospels (canonical or apocryphal) or epistles, we're supposed to accept that Jesus was Michael incarnate instead of the Logos (the Logos is not an angel. The Logos is the word that shapes ultimate reality, it is ultimate reality: the order of the universe according to the mind of God). There is only his share in the battle against evil between the forces of the Most High and Satan in the Book of Revelation. Michael is one of the angels of the Most High. The angels of the Most High form the Elohim. There are 70 angels in this Divine Council. All are sons of the Most High, including Michael and Satan (= Samael). The Father of Christ transcends the Most High and the Elohim. This is why Jesus Christ said:

John 6
46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. (Michael is not the one who is from God, he is one of the sons of the Most High. Therefore Michael has not seen the Father)

John 1
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. (Michael is not the one and only Son, nor is he himself God.)

John 14
9 Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. (Jesus is God.)

Jesus is God incarnate:

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (<--- The Word / Logos was God.)
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. (The Word / Logos / God became flesh = Jesus)

I'm not doing anything here except follow what scripture tells me.

Jesus = The Son of God.
Michael = an angel of the Most High.

Hebrews 1:

The Son Superior to Angels​

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

7 In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”

8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

10 He also says,

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”

13 To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”?

14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?​

Father can and did though through me, and His Theories (Ideas from God/Theos) and Explanations are NEVER flawed, nor is His Law grievous.

Matt 23
12 ... those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

 

[TokiEl]

So God spoke through Archangel Michael when he gave the law to Moses. Then God spoke through Archangel Michael who incarnated Jesus who spoke to mankind.

We ought not infer the trinity from scripture or be called antichrists, even though the trinity is contained within one verse (John 1:1). However, even though the role of Michael is nowhere to be found in the gospels (canonical or apocryphal) or epistles, we're supposed to accept that Jesus was Michael incarnate instead of the Logos (the Logos is not an angel. The Logos is the word that shapes ultimate reality, it is ultimate reality: the order of the universe according to the mind of God).

Is Michael an angel ?


Gabriel is an angel and this is what he said about Michael.

Daniel 10 21“But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.

Michael is the Prince of Israel.

And when Israel is God's portion or people... then the Prince of Israel is _______ ?


There can be no doubt that this is Michael.

Joshua 5 13And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, “Are You for us or for our adversaries?”

14So He said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.”

And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and said to Him, “What does my Lord say to His servant?”

15Then the Commander of the Lord’s army said to Joshua, “Take your sandal off your foot, for the place where you stand is holy.” And Joshua did so.


Michael is of course not a mere man although he is called so in the book of Joshua.

And Michael spoke like God.


Exodus 3 Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”

4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”

And he said, “Here I am.”

5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.


The angel of the Lord is not an angel... but God.

 

[Robin]

Is Michael an angel ?


Gabriel is an angel and this is what he said about Michael.

Daniel 10 21“But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.

Michael is the Prince of Israel.

And when Israel is God's portion or people... then the Prince of Israel is _______ ?


There can be no doubt that this is Michael.

Joshua 5 13And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, “Are You for us or for our adversaries?”

14So He said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.”

And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and said to Him, “What does my Lord say to His servant?”

15Then the Commander of the Lord’s army said to Joshua, “Take your sandal off your foot, for the place where you stand is holy.” And Joshua did so.


Michael is of course not a mere man although he is called so in the book of Joshua.

And Michael spoke like God.


Exodus 3 Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”

4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”

And he said, “Here I am.”

5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.


The angel of the Lord is not an angel... but God.

Jude 1:9
9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

Why would Jesus not dare bring a "reviling accusation" against Satan and instead say "The Lord rebuke you"?

 

[bible_student]

The Father commands you to focus on the Son.


Mark 9 1Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power.”

2After six days Jesus took with Him Peter, James, and John, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There He was transfigured before them. 3His clothes became radiantly white, brighter than any launderer on earth could bleach them. 4And Elijah and Moses appeared before them, talking with Jesus.

5Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three sheltersa : one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 6For they were all so terrified that Peter did not know what else to say.

7Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!” 8Suddenly, when they looked around, they saw no one with them except Jesus.

Yes, Father commands us to hear the Son, and what do we hear the Son saying?:

John
17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

17:21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent me.

Mark
12:29 And Jesus answered him, The First of all the Commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength and serve Him ONLY: this [is] the first COMMANDment.
12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other COMMANDment greater than these.

The Lord our God is One-ness.

 

[Artful Revealer]

Jude 1:9
9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

Why would Jesus not dare bring a "reviling accusation" against Satan and instead say "The Lord rebuke you"?

Good point.

Satan confronts Jesus in the desert:

Luke 4
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

Jesus had more power over Satan because Jesus had authority over him. Michael did not, for both him and Satan were angels of the Lord.
Jesus is the Lord.

 

[TokiEl]

Jude 1:9
9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

Why would Jesus not dare bring a "reviling accusation" against Satan and instead say "The Lord rebuke you"?

Zechariah 3 1Then the angel showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, with Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

2And the LORD said to Satan: “The LORD rebukes you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebukes you! Is not this man a firebrandc snatched from the fire?”


Notice how Michael said the same as God to Satan.

The LORD rebukes you.

That's what God said and that's what Michael said.

And that's enough.

 

[Robin]

Zechariah 3 1Then the angel showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, with Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

2And the LORD said to Satan: “The LORD rebukes you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebukes you! Is not this man a firebrandc snatched from the fire?”


Notice how Michael said the same as God to Satan.

The LORD rebukes you.

That's what God said and that's what Michael said.

And that's enough.

And the part where he dared not bring a reviling accusation against him? Or where he was in dispute with Satan over Moses' body? Why would God, the sovereign creator, dispute with a created being over the body of one of his prophets?

 

[TokiEl]

Good point.

Satan confronts Jesus in the desert:

Luke 4
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

Jesus had more power over Satan because Jesus had authority over him. Michael did not, for both him and Satan were angels of the Lord.
Jesus is the Lord.

There is a good case for Jesus being Micheal... but it's not so important for Christians maybe more for Jews ?

 

[TokiEl]

And the part where he dared not bring a reviling accusation against him? Or where he was in dispute with Satan over Moses' body? Why would God, the sovereign creator, dispute with a created being over the body of one of his prophets?

When created beings got free will... God must dispute with them.

 

[Robin]

When created beings got free will... God must dispute with them.

Over the body of one of His own prophets? Really? That's the explanation? And what about the "dared not" part? Because in Job Satan is given strict parameters by God as to how far he can plague His servant. There is no disputing or limitless authority given.