No regard...for the desire of women

[Lisa]

Okay okay I want it too

Do you really?

 

[Vytas]

Do you really?

I guess we all have our reasons...

 

[Lisa]

I guess we all have our reasons...

What is your reason?

 

[Todd]

Are the Beatitudes nice?

If we would apply them to our own lives and live by them, the world would generally consider us nice.

Is loving someone always nice? God says to love you neighbor as yourself, we don’t always love ourselves nicely so we?

I don't know what kind of sick, demented lifestyle you might personally live, but when I love myself I generally am nice to myself. I guess that might explain your twisted sadistic view of God though if you are secretly living some masochist lifestyle. Please tell me I'm wrong.

Regarding Matthew 25, I think the most interesting part is those people didn’t even know they did those things, when they say, when did we do those things..

You really think those people didn't know that they fed the hungry, clothed the poor, visited people in prison, etc? What they didn't know is that when they did it, Jesus considered it as doing it unto him also. I think you need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills a little bit. LOL!

 

[Lisa]

If we would apply them to our own lives and live by them, the world would generally consider us nice.

Yet Jesus said that since they hated Him, they will hate us, a servant is not greater than his master...so I think that that wouldn’t happen. Besides that, what is nice about the beatitudes?

I don't know what kind of sick, demented lifestyle you might personally live, but when I love myself I generally am nice to myself. I guess that might explain your twisted sadistic view of God though if you are secretly living some masochist lifestyle. Please tell me I'm wrong.

I wanted to kill myself for most of my life...if I had loved my neighbor like that?

You really think those people didn't know that they fed the hungry, clothed the poor, visited people in prison, etc?

Why were they surprised they did it then?

 

[Vytas]

What is your reason?

Daniel 5:27 i have enough on the wrong side, i need to put more on the right, the worse it gets the happier I'll be... Hopefully. And let's not pretend that miracles, trials and ultimate good ending one way or another, doesn't sound at least little bit attractive And yours
?
EDIT i might add rev3 :18 as another reason.

 

[Lisa]

Daniel 5:27 i have enough on the wrong side, i need to put more on the right, the worse it gets the happier I'll be... Hopefully. And let's not pretend that miracles, trials and ultimate good ending one way or another, doesn't sound at least little bit attractive And yours
?
EDIT i might add rev3 :18 as another reason.

Doing the work of the Lord, should make it happier?

I just want to see prophecy come alive I guess. To say..yep, that’s what the Bible says and I’m here to see it. Though that might be a little silly because what is coming is the worst times ever.
I also would like to be one of those who are brought to kings and governors, for Christ’s sake as a testimony to them and I’d like to hear what the Holy Spirit would give me to speak in that hour.

 

[Todd]

Yet Jesus said that since they hated Him, they will hate us, a servant is not greater than his master...so I think that that wouldn’t happen. Besides that, what is nice about the beatitudes?


I wanted to kill myself for most of my life...if I had loved my neighbor like that?


Why were they surprised they did it then?

 

[Vytas]

Doing the work of the Lord, should make it happier?

Doing good for others sure, but bringing people closer to God, conversing them.. Work that really is useful? Not everyone is capable of it...

 

[Todd]

I also would like to be one of those who are brought to kings and governors, for Christ’s sake as a testimony to them and I’d like to hear what the Holy Spirit would give me to speak in that hour.

It happens all the time Lisa....it's not something just reserved for your future fantasy. Truly Spirit lead believers are given audiences before powerful people all the time, but it's not going to happen for you if you are just sitting at home waiting for God to magically make it happen.

 

[Lisa]

Doing good for others sure, but bringing people closer to God, conversing them.. Work that really is useful? Not everyone is capable of it...

All I know is that God will train you up in the way you should go. I didn’t think that God would train me up to be a teacher. I always wanted to be a teacher since I was a young child, but I never went to school to be one. So, I was certainly surprised that God would pick me to do that work. He didn’t just throw me into the lion’s den without any training, he gave me a sneak peak of my teachers and then I went to their classes. I didn’t know I could do it, but I also had the Lord behind me and I learned to be a teacher for the Lord. I still needed Him to help me with the lessons and the class, but then I think that God is always like that, you will always need Him, we weren’t made to do things on our own.

 

[Lisa]

It happens all the time Lisa....it's not something just reserved for your future fantasy. Truly Spirit lead believers are given audiences before powerful people all the time, but it's not going to happen for you if you are just sitting at home waiting for God to magically make it happen.

Its end times prophecy...not my fantasy.

Mark‬ ‭13:9-13‬ ‭
But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them. The gospel must first be preached to all the nations. When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.​

‭‭

 

[Vytas]

All I know is that God will train you up in the way you should go. I didn’t think that God would train me up to be a teacher. I always wanted to be a teacher since I was a young child, but I never went to school to be one. So, I was certainly surprised that God would pick me to do that work. He didn’t just throw me into the lion’s den without any training, he gave me a sneak peak of my teachers and then I went to their classes. I didn’t know I could do it, but I also had the Lord behind me and I learned to be a teacher for the Lord. I still needed Him to help me with the lessons and the class, but then I think that God is always like that, you will always need Him, we weren’t made to do things on our own.

Thanks.
I'm happy for you. Just don't overuse your talents for discipline My mother prepared kids for sacraments, it takes special set of traits to teach kids faith. They will remember you and visit you even after 20-30 years. When you sow a seed it doesn't die easily...

 

[Lisa]

Thanks.
I'm happy for you. Just don't overuse your talents for discipline My mother prepared kids for sacraments, it takes special set of traits to teach kids faith. They will remember you and visit you even after 20-30 years. Then you sow a seed it doesn't die easily...

Thanks!
However, I didn’t last long as a teacher I was fired from my position...actually I was fired from everything God gave to me 17 years ago when God wrecked me for His purposes. I saw a glimpse of something else...2 something’s actually, I have no timeline to know when they will come to pass but I hope in what I can’t see.

One person I was able to use those talents on was my niece..she is a Christian who happily married another Christian this past March. She says that God used me to help her to know HIm. I feel really blessed about that, but I have to say, that when I heard she was coming for a visit, I knew God had called me to preach the Good News to her. I wish I could remember the things she was talking about when she came to my house. I have to admit, I didn’t understand anything she talked about and it scared me where she might have learned those things..so she was on a wrong path for sure, until God brought her to my house.

 

[Todd]

Its end times prophecy...not my fantasy.

Mark‬ ‭13:9-13‬ ‭​

But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts, and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them. The gospel must first be preached to all the nations. When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.​

‭‭

Verse 1-13 is all about the things that will happen to his disciples from that point on until the end. "for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet." All those things are things that have happened and will continue to happen to Christ's disciples throughout history.

Another example of extreme literal interpretation of the Bible causing it to be of no effect in the life of a believer. Instead of looking at real ways to apply the bible to everyday life now, Christians like yourself, fantasize about what is going to come "in the last days", as if something magical and surreal is going to happen overnight and then they will suddenly flip a switch and turn into captain martyr or something.

I know I just posted this a few posts above, but this is deserving of another appearance of Cain.

 

[Lisa]

Verse 1-13 is all about the things that will happen to his disciples from that point on until the end. "for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet." All those things are things that have happened and will continue to happen to Christ's disciples throughout history.

Another example of extreme literal interpretation of the Bible causing it to be of no effect in the life of a believer. Instead of looking at real ways to apply the bible to everyday life now, Christians like yourself, fantasize about what is going to come "in the last days", as if something magical and surreal is going to happen overnight and then they will suddenly flip a switch and turn into captain martyr or something.

I know I just posted this a few posts above, but this is deserving of another appearance of Cain.

What Christians have told Queen Elizabeth the Good News do ya think? Or her son, Charles? Who’s had an audience with Theresa May or Angela Merkel?

I would say that that time is to come, and will coincide with the martyrs getting their heads chopped off.

I don’t fantasize about it, I rarely think about it but when I do, I know I want to be a part of it. No, I don’t think I will be captain martyr, I’m sure I will be terrified and holding onto God for dear life.

 

[Daciple]

Do you even know what you are talking about?

I do yes, do you?

Do you know the difference between culture and religion?

I do, and I also know that a Religion and a Culture can be interdependent especially when the Religion is a Theocracy?

You understand that your Religion sets itself up to be a Theocracy correct? That means that when it is put into place as laid out in the texts you hold as Holy it completely and totally affects the Culture, in fact it straight up dictates the Culture.

There are zero Islamic verses or hadiths that have a punishment for not wearing hijab.
Bring me your proof! One verse or hadith that mentions a punishment for not wearing hijab.

Sure, first off as pointed out by Muslims in this thread it is MANDATORY according to your Holy Text to wear Hijab:

First of all it must be understood that the law of hijab for women is a direct command from Allah, hence, it has the ruling of being ‘Farz’, or compulsory on an individual basis.

In this regard Allah says in Sura An Nur verse 31:-

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband’s fathers, their sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

While explaining the above verse, some scholars have stated that ‘except what must ordinarily appear thereof’ refers to the face and hands upto the wrists. It means that a woman must cover her entire body, but an allowance is given to her to allow her face and hands upto the wrists to be exposed (as mentioned by these scholars). Many other scholars have stated that the face and hands must be covered.

From the above verse, the law has been clearly established that Muslim women must cover her entire self properly, which also includes the covering of the head (which is commonly referred to by Muslims as wearing the hijab).

In Sura Ahzab, Allah says, ‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their outer garments around them’ (33:59).

Here, the Prophet(SAS) has been ordered by Allah to tell his wives, daughters and all the believing women to cover themselves with their outer garments, which also includes the head.

With respect to the Sunnah, it is authentically reported that the Prophet (SAS) said, ‘when a woman reaches puberty, no part of her body should remain uncovered except the face and the hand up to the wrist joint’. (Mishkaat). It is narrated that once Asma, the sister of Aisha (RA) came before the Prophet (SAS) in a thin dress which revealed her body. The Prophet (SAS) turned his eyes away and said,Oh Asma! When a woman reaches puberty, it is not lawful that any part of her body be seen, except this and this, and then pointed to his face and the palms of his hands’. (Mishkaat).

From the above quotations, it can be clearly seen that ‘wearing the hijab’ is compulsory upon a Muslim woman since it is a direct command from Allah, and that of the Prophet (SAS). Seeing that it is a clear order in Islam, it means that if a woman does not observe the hijab, she would be considered as being openly disobedient to Allah and His Rasool (SAS). This act of disobedience on her part is indeed a grave sin, and brings about the severe punishment from Allah in a manner He sees fit.

With respect to one who disobeys Allah and His Rasool, the Holy Quran says, ‘And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, and transgresses His limits He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein, and he shall have a disgraceful torment’. (Sura An Naisa (4) verse 14).

In another verse, the Holy Quran says, ‘It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whosoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed into plain error’. (Sura Al Ahzab (33) verse 36).

These verses make it clear that one who disobeys Allah and His Messenger is astray and will be punished with a disgraceful torment in the hereafter.

So according to these verses, not only is it mandatory but to NOT do as required means that you will be "punished with a disgraceful torment in the hereafter".

Another Muslim weighted in with this response:

The punishment is that you become a kaffir and will be in hell for eternity. It is required for all Muslim women to cover their face and body if they are visible by non-mahrams. Abandoning the sunnah is abandoning Islam. Prophet Muhammad(peace and blessings upon him)said “whoever turns away from my sunnah has nothing to do with me.”

(al-Bukhari 5063)

Aisha(R.A.) used to say: "When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."

(al-Bukhari 4759)

Aa’ishah said: The riders used to pass by us when we were with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in ihraam. When they came near us we would lower our jilbaabs from our heads over our faces, and when they had passed by we would uncover our faces.

(Abu Dawood 1562)

The Prophet stayed for three rights between Khaibar and Medina and was married to Safiya. I invited the Muslims to his marriage banquet and there was neither meat nor bread in that banquet but the Prophet ordered Bilal to spread the leather mats on which dates, dried yogurt and butter were put. The Muslims said amongst themselves, "Will she (i.e. Safiya) be one of the mothers of the believers, (i.e. one of the wives of the Prophet ) or just (a lady captive) of what his right-hand possesses?" Some of them said, "If the Prophet makes her observe the veil, then she will be one of the mothers of the believers (i.e. one of the Prophet's wives), and if he does not make her observe the veil, then she will be his lady slave." So when he departed, he made a place for her behind him (on his camel) and made her observe the veil.

(al-Bukhari 4213)

A woman called Umm Khallad came to the Prophet(peace and blessings upon him) while she was veiled. She was searching for her son who had been killed (in the battle) Some of the Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings upon them) said to her: You have come here asking for your son while veiling your face? She said: If I am afflicted with the loss of my son, I shall not suffer the loss of my modesty. The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings upon him) said: You will get the reward of two martyrs for your son. She asked: Why is that so, Messenger of Allah? He replied: Because the people of the Book have killed him.

(Abi Dawood 2488)

It was narrated from Aisha" that Safwaan ibn al-Muattal al-Sulami al-Dhakwaani was lagging behind the army. He came to where I had stopped and saw the black shape of a person sleeping. He recognized me when he saw me, because he had seen me before Hijab was enjoined. I woke up when I heard him saying "Inna Lillaahi wa inna ilayhi raajioon (verily to Allah we belong and unto Him is our return)," when he saw me, and I covered my face with my Jilbab."

(Muslim 2770)

So you go to Hell for not observing this according to the Quran and Hadiths, now as for the Earthly punishments, some more Muslims weighted in on this stating:

The afterlife punishment is correct, but the worldly punishment thing is something that the others do not explain sufficiently.

There are three kinds of penalties known in the Shari’ah. First is retaliation or Qisas, which applies to murder or certain other body injuries. This is prescribed in the Qur’an and sunnah.

The second is Hudud which are prescribed penalties for specific crimes, all in the Qur’an and sunnah. Examples of this are stoning for adultery, lashing for fornication, etc.

The mistake of most people is because they think that the above is all there is.

The third kind, which I would like to draw your attention on, is called ta’zir. This type of penalty is basically the discretion of the state to maintain law and order based on maslahat (necessity). When someone does something against the shari’ah which does not fall under either hudud or qisas, the ruler may choose to implement this ta’zir depending on masalahat.

Examples of this: death penalty for drug dealers, where such crime is not specifically regulated in the Quran and Sunnah but is clearly a breach of the Shari’ah. Saudi Arabia applies this, and Indonesia’s ulama have issued a fatwa on the same matter.

The case of a grown up Muslimah not wearing a hijab is a breach of the Shari’ah. So if the ruler sees maslahat in it, then it is within their discretion to implement ta’zir.

So this is the earthly punishments laid out in Shariah Law, which of course is based on Islam, its Text and Leaders.

Again IDC if you want to be willfully ignorant about the problem and the reality that is on you, but you do absolutely no justice to the millions of Muslims that suffer under these Laws based on your Religion by saying they dont exist.

Stand up and condemn them, IDK why its such a hard thing to do. Condemn Shariah, condemn Theocracies, condemn and outcast all the millions upon millions upon millions of Muslims that actually believe and live Islam in this manner.

Essentially what I always here from Muslims is that this doesnt represent Islam, and I would be much more likely to believe such a thing if there were not literally a billion people who state they are Muslims living out Islam in exactly this manner. In my opinion THAT is how Islam is SUPPOSED to be practiced and that these Western Muslims we see on this board and elsewhere are NOT practicing Islam the way it was founded and is SUPPOSED to be practiced.

IDC how you want to position it, whether it be Earthly or Eternal, there is going to be punishment for every Muslims that doesnt follow the direct command to wear the Hijab. And every single time that there is an Earthly punishment towards a woman who disobeys this command, in Islamic States (which is HOW Islam is SUPPOSED to be practiced, because it IS a Theocracy) then it is justified according to the Law that stems from Islam, period...

I speak for Islam, not what some people may do somewhere.

You speak for your own made up form of Islam which would be reject by Millions upon Millions of Muslims the world over. In fact you would probably be taken and punished for disregarding what the Quran says about the necessity to cover yourself in huge swaths of the world, especially the ones with mass majority of Muslims and thus initiating a Muslim State as the Religion dictates OUGHT to be done.

I personally dont care about your own made up personal version of Islam, I worry about what REAL Islam states as it is practiced by Millions of people that straight up punish or at the minimum ostracize women who dont follow this outright command from the Hadiths and Quran. That Islam is terrible and I reject it all together, every single aspect of it.

I love the people but the Culture that Islam breeds when it takes ahold of a large % of the population is horrific and if it were ever to be curtailed then people need to speak out against it, specifically Western Muslims (who dont really practice Islam as Islam and the West do not mix and never will) and yall need to address and basically go to war against the method in which Islam is practiced in the majority of the World.

But I dont see that happening, I see what I see here all the time, when the terrible things are exposed, instead of joining the people exposing it and condemning it, instead its a bunch of denial or justification.

Whether you accept it or not, millions of your fellow Muslims practice Islam that calls for punishment of women for not wearing the Hijab, and even worse, according to your Scriptures yall either go to Hell or will be punished in some manner in the afterlife, all for not wearing the right clothing...

Ignorance is prevalent throughout the world among many cultures including yours.

Well my Culture isnt actively beating, hurting or murdering women for not wearing a specific style of dress and lets make sure that we keep the conversation on point. This isnt about a better or worse Culture, it is SPECIFICALLY about what happens when women dont wear a specific outfit and the punishments received via their Religion or their Culture if their Culture is directly influenced by their Religion (which only exists in Islam because that whole Theocracy things and separation of Church and State in the West).

Are there some cultures that have problematic customs that have enforced something that Islam has not enforced.....a resounding yes!

You are willfully ignorant to think that Islam ISNT the motivation and influence of these Cultures that enforce these ideals. THEY COME FROM ISLAM, do you notice that literally NO OTHER COUNTRIES PRACTICE PUNISHMENT FOR HOW YOU DRESS ACCORDING TO A RELIGIOUS TEXT BESIDES ISLAMIC COUNTRIES?

There is one common factor among all these Cultures and Countries, the Religion of Islam, period...

Don't you have Christians or Jews who use their religion to enforce things not enforceable in Christianity and Judaism? Amish/Mennonites/Orthodox Jews?

Umm no, there are zero Christian Theocracies in existence that mandate a specific dress code and then punish people for not following said Christian Law.

Those 3 off shoots you just mentioned, do not have the power to enforce punishments upon the peoples, and no where do I see in any Religious Text that they follow the necessity to wear a certain dress or face punishment.

Now the ONLY place you could look to for anything close to that would be the THEOCRACY of Israel 2000 years ago. And there is a massive difference between Israel and a practice that is held in MULTIPLE Countries throughout the World. Regardless, since an Israeli Theocracy doesnt exist it is a moot point to speak on as we are talking about CURRENT situations, countries and cultures.

@justjess has aptly highlighted this singling out that some of you are doing.

I guess you literally didnt read my posts here. I came stating that there were extremes on both sides, and made clear that I would stand in the middle of the argument. Lisa was being hard headed on her side acting like no one would desire to dress in such a fashion and demeaning them if they do ect, and you are being hard headed by denying the affect that Islam has on these Cultures, Countries and Communities to cause them punish women or force them to wear these things.

I didnt single any one out, bring me another Theocracy that exists that mandates its people (believers or not) to wear a specific dress or be punished and I will condemn them just as I do the Islamic Theocracies.

I outright said my belief is that a woman can wear or not wear anything she wants as long as it isnt Nudity. I support every Muslim in the World to be able to wear the Hijab or whatever else and not to be made to feel as tho they should be outcasted or rejected. I dont support them being mandated to do so in fear of punishment, period.

If there is another Country or Religion that is mandating these things then obviously I do and would condemn them and I specifically showed the difference between the Cultures you mentioned and Jess mentioned and Islam...

Wake up and smell the coffee the bogeymen you guys build are far from the reality on the ground even in many Arabian countries.

Right, millions of people dont live in Countries where they are forced to wear a specific dress or face punishment, people are just making it up... Please...

Muslim majority nations in the world from Indonesia to Nigeria have their own cultures and the gender relations are diverse as well.
Many need to travel and stop stereotyping.

Is that right?

Try looking up Aceh in Indonesia and tell me that Islam isnt massively influencing that Culture and that gender relations are diverse there. You know where women can be beaten for being outside without a man ect...

Nigeria huh?

In Nigeria, Sharia has been instituted as a main body of civil and criminal law in 9 Muslim-majority and in some parts of 3 Muslim-plurality states since 1999, when then-Zamfara State governor Ahmad Sani Yerima[1] began the push for the institution of Sharia at the state level of government.

A Sharia court may treat blasphemy as deserving of several punishments up to, and including, execution.[3][4] In many predominantly Muslim states, conversion from Islam to another religion is illegal and often a capital offence.

In 2014 a Nigerian man, Mubarak Bala was forcibly committed to a psychiatric institution in Kano for eighteen days, where he was forcibly drugged after stating that he was an atheist. The International Humanist and Ethical Union took up the case, stating that Bala's human rights were violated.[6]

In 2014, homosexual men were targeted by Hisbah, the religious police. According to a member of the Sharia Commission, homosexuals should be killed by stoning, hanging or pushing them from a high place.[8] In Nigeria, federal law criminalizes homosexual behaviour, but states with Sharia law imposed the death penalty.[9]

I mean if you want to tell me that Islam isnt massively influencing these Cultures to uphold these Laws then you are again willfully blind.

Sharia Law which is outright extension of Islam is horrific and needs to be condemned fully and totally. There is nothing good that comes from it and thus the difference between Islam and the other Cultures mentioned by you and Jess...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

What Christians have told Queen Elizabeth the Good News do ya think? .

Billy Graham met the queen and gave her the gospel:-

I like this quote from another member of the aristocracy...

1 Corinthians 1:26:

Not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.

Selina Hastings, Countess of Huntingdon (1707-1791):

Blessed be God, it does not say “any mighty,” “any noble”; it says “many mighty,” “many noble.”

I owe my salvation to the letter “m.”

If it had been “not any noble,” where would the countess have been?

 

[Daciple]

You can't use examples like that.

Right no one can use clear examples of Islam forcing its Law onto a peoples because, its a clear example of the massive problems found in Islamic States, got it lol

Please, IDK how many times we have to go over this, you dont represent Islam and you and I both know in almost every single place that practices Islam you and your made up Religion would be 100% rejected and you would be considered a Non Believer.

What you say does and doesnt represent Islam is of no value because you represent your own made up Religion, and in all of the places I point to that actually practices Islam as found in the Quran and Hadiths, you would probably be put to death, but hey we cant point to that because they dont line up with what you wish Islam actually represented...

Iran was historically one of the most liberal (and enlightened) parts of the Muslim world. Until it became Shia under force because of group of guys had beef with the ottoman Sunnis.

Yeah I agree that Iran was completely different until it became a Theocracy with Islamic Sharia being implemented and now it holds its people hostage. I would think Iran would be a great place for Western Ideology to flourish if only these dag on Muslims that practice Islam as its set out in the Quran and Hadiths were not in control. However alas they are there practicing Islam as specifically set out in these Holy Texts which we can see throughout History is how Islam is SUPPOSED to be practiced...

The only examples you can offer arent organic examples...they're politically influenced. Eg wahabism in Saudi Arabia or current Iran. Even the hudood ordinances in Pakistan were pushed by a dictator who was western backed (Zia UL haq...who massacred Palestinians) and a friend of house saud.
Islam doesnt encourage forcing women to cover up. You've never travelled to Muslim countries to understand how society is structured. You've never even met many Muslims I bet.

We can list dozens of Countries that install Sharia Law and then force its people to abide by these rules including wearing specific types of dress. It is just a fact that even in Western Countries where Muslims take over and become the majority of residents that they implement and try and enforce Sharia Law and force people to abide by their ideologies even when the State itself rejects their rules.

To say that Islam doesnt encourage forcing women to cover up is to ignore the text point blank. Now I personally am glad that water downed Muslims, Westernized Muslims exist and understand how ridiculous it is to try and force these Law on people.

I support you if you are here to reject these things, but once you act like what I am saying isnt the Truth or doesnt actually Represent Islam or people dont have to live under these Laws, well thats where we will part ways because at that point you are no longer helping the situation.

Again IDK why this is so hard for you all to do, accept that Islam causes these problems, condemn it, start to reform it, otherwise it will never stop...

 

[Daciple]

A muslim women’s dress is not modesty but an outward sign that something is terribly wrong with the way islam views women. That is my opinion and I would be happy to change it if islam would ban the burka.

So you want Islam to go the complete opposite direction and have the State begin to punish people for wearing a specific type of dress?

How do you not see you are being hard headed? Just like they are hard headed to deny that there is a problem with Islams view of women and more over the reality that women are being forced to dress a certain way.

However your view is no better, many Muslim women WANT to wear these clothes and they should be SUPPORTED if they CHOOSE to wear it. You want that to be OUTLAWED which means they would be PUNISHED for wearing what they so choose. That is just as bad as forcing them to wear it...

The opposite end of the spectrum is bikini’s that show way too much flesh.

So you would stand behind legislation that says a Bikini should be outlawed and women who wear them should be punished?

I have a feeling you dont actually support such a thing, but since the Burka represents Islam then you are willing to mandate and force and punish women...

Again you are being hard headed and at the other extreme.

What do you think has changed with me?

You literally are trying to find any and everything to argue about with everyone. However I dont think you would acknowledge what I am stating, but I am quite sure I am not the only one who sees it...

You are coming off as a Troll instead of a person interested in true debates, but again I dont expect you to see it...