Once Saved Always Saved?

[Lisa]

Yes, because we know threatening harm to someone is most effective and noble motivation technique in there is, right? You really think God himself couldn't come up with a better idea? Do you even think about what you type before hitting "reply"?

What better idea did God come up with?

 

[Todd]

What better idea did God come up with?

That he will draw all men to him in due time, if not in this age then in the ages to come. No need for sadistic eternal torment. God's corrective punishment and purifying fire will accomplish his will, that all men be saved eventually. That's a much better idea, then God giving up and allowing anyone to suffer eternal torment.

 

[Lisa]

That he will draw all men to him in due time, if not in this age then in the ages to come. No need for sadistic eternal torment. God's corrective punishment and purifying fire will accomplish his will, that all men be saved eventually. That's a much better idea, then God giving up and allowing anyone to suffer eternal torment.

It’s not God’s ultimate wish that people are thrown into the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, but they be saved by the blood of Jesus...He gave people a way out of that lake of fire.

 

[Todd]

It’s not God’s ultimate wish that people are thrown into the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, but they be saved by the blood of Jesus...He gave people a way out of that lake of fire.

Agreed. He gave people a way out and he will make sure that all make it out in due time.

God is omnipotent, yes? That means he is all powerful. If God is omnipotent and men end up in eternal torment, then it really means he is sadistic.

 

[Lisa]

Agreed. He gave people a way out and he will make sure that all make it out in due time.

God is omnipotent, yes? That means he is all powerful. If God is omnipotent and men end up in eternal torment, then it really means he is sadistic.

No it doesn’t mean He is sadistic...He tells people what the problem is, tells them what the punishment is, then offers them a way out, through His own sacrifice, if you don’t want to take it, that’s your choice not His. His is that everyone be saved, but He won’t make people choose salvation.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Yes, because we know threatening harm to someone is most effective and noble motivation technique in there is, right? You really think God himself couldn't come up with a better idea? Do you even think about what you type before hitting "reply"?

We are aware that you have a problem with God’s prescribed punishment for sin, but it doesn’t change the fact that He made it so:

“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”........ Revelation 21:8 KJB


Sounds harsh, but He is the same God who also gave up His only begotten Son— to lay down His life & shed His precious, sinless blood to pay for OUR iniquities, so that we can be saved.

He didn’t even have to...He could have decided to just throw us all in Hell and He would still be justified in doing so.

So instead of complaining about how God chose to establish HIS rules/regulations (and thankfully, His plan of redemption for us) on the earth HE created, you ought to be praising Him for His love, mercy & amazing ability to forgive a bunch of rebellious, wayward derelicts like us, who probably appear as wicked as serpents to a God so infinitesimally HOLY as Almighty God.

 

[Lisa]

He didn’t even have to

Sure He did...
Matthew 26:52-54
Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen that way?”
He was never gonna let His word be a lie...

 

[TokiEl]

Did you see my remark in parentheses within that sentence??

People do not come to believe on Christ so they can commit sin.... They come to believe on Him because they know they are ALREADY sinners, and discover that God has executed a plan to save us from the Hell we deserve because He loves us and doesn't want us to go to Hell.

I'd say that is the best news I've ever heard., and it would be foolish to reject the greatest gift God gave us.

Still this free grace theology is telling believers that as long as they believe in Jesus their salvation is assured.

This is not true !


Salvation is about removal of sins which is only possible by the spilt Blood of the only begotten Son of God. And sinners apply that Blood for remission of sins by repentance that is regretting and turning from sins and starting to live according to His red letter words.

Sure there might be slip ups but we repent and confess and press on to perfection. It's a walk with the Lord until the end...

Maybe you ought to consider why your mind immediately resorts to the commission of depravity and debauchery at the thought of this gift, instead of being thankful and glorifying God for His mercy and forbearance.

If people don't even bother to repent that is regret their sins and turn from them... then they miss God's mercy and must face His justice.

 

[Vytas]

Still this free grace theology is telling believers that as long as they believe in Jesus their salvation is assured.

This is not true !


Salvation is about removal of sins which is only possible by the spilt Blood of the only begotten Son of God. And sinners apply that Blood for remission of sins by repentance that is regretting and turning from sins and starting to live according to His red letter words.

Sure there might be slip ups but we repent and confess and press on to perfection. It's a walk with the Lord until the end...




If people don't even bother to repent that is regret their sins and turn from them... then they miss God's mercy and must face His justice.

If you believe Jesus died for your sins you will repent sooner or later. You can't unlearn what you learned...Repentance and believing is one deal. Unless perhaps you never truly believed , never got saved, newer saw the big picture...Then maybe it's possible you will forget to repent forever...

 

[Thunderian]

Still this free grace theology is telling believers that as long as they believe in Jesus their salvation is assured.

It's worse than that.

Even if we stop believing, we are still saved. Once we accept Jesus Christ, we commit our eternal destiny to him. There is no escape from his hand.

I rejected God in my twenties, after accepting Jesus Christ as a young boy. Did I lose my salvation then? Am I saved now? Be honest.

 

[Todd]

No it doesn’t mean He is sadistic...He tells people what the problem is, tells them what the punishment is, then offers them a way out, through His own sacrifice, if you don’t want to take it, that’s your choice not His. His is that everyone be saved, but He won’t make people choose salvation.

So you are saying in the end, our individual will is greater than God's will? I don't buy that....

 

[Allegra]

It's worse than that.

Even if we stop believing, we are still saved. Once we accept Jesus Christ, we commit our eternal destiny to him. There is no escape from his hand.

I rejected God in my twenties, after accepting Jesus Christ as a young boy. Did I lose my salvation then? Am I saved now? Be honest.

Please stop this so wrong.
Common misunderstanding and totally false. You never lose your salvation because God knows you will repent and come back to Him. Once you’re in His mighty hand, you can’t fall. Satan can’t steal you from Him because we make God our hiding place.

However if you deliberately stop believing in God and live sinful life, you’re quenching and grieving the Holy Spirit, last time I checked it is unforgivable sin.

There will be no saints in the kingdom of who have forsake God when they were on earth. There is no Judas in God’s kingdom.

You think you’d be saved but you were never a believer in the first place. You’re not one of us.

 

[Todd]

We are aware that you have a problem with God’s prescribed punishment for sin, but it doesn’t change the fact that He made it so:

“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”........ Revelation 21:8 KJB


Sounds harsh, but He is the same God who also gave up His only begotten Son— to lay down His life & shed His precious, sinless blood to pay for OUR iniquities, so that we can be saved.

He didn’t even have to...He could have decided to just throw us all in Hell and He would still be justified in doing so.

So instead of complaining about how God chose to establish HIS rules/regulations (and thankfully, His plan of redemption for us) on the earth HE created, you ought to be praising Him for His love, mercy & amazing ability to forgive a bunch of rebellious, wayward derelicts like us, who probably appear as wicked as serpents to a God so infinitesimally HOLY as Almighty God.

View attachment 22788

I don't have a problem at all with God's prescribed punishment, because God never says his punishment, his wrath or his anger is forever. I have a problem with man misrepresenting what God actually said as a tactic to scare people into submission.

What kind of parent uses threats, fear and intimidation to motivate their children?

 

[Thunderian]

Please stop this so wrong.
Common misunderstanding and totally false. You never lose your salvation because God knows you will repent and come back to Him. Once you’re in His mighty hand, you can’t fall. Satan can’t steal you from Him because we make God our hiding place.

However if you deliberately stop believing in God and live sinful life, you’re quenching and grieving the Holy Spirit, last time I checked it is unforgivable sin.

There will be no saints in the kingdom of who have forsake God when they were on earth. There is no Judas in God’s kingdom.

You think you’d be saved but you were never a believer in the first place. You’re not one of us.

Don't worry, I know I am saved, and I know I can't lose it.

I just want @TokiEl to answer my questions.

 

[Lisa]

So you are saying in the end, our individual will is greater than God's will? I don't buy that....

It’s always been a choice to choose God or not. God honors our choice whatever that may be. Don’t be mad that He gives people a choice just because to not choose God ends in punishment. He also gave a way out of that...

 

[Todd]

It’s always been a choice to choose God or not. God honors our choice whatever that may be. Don’t be mad that He gives people a choice just because to not choose God ends in punishment. He also gave a way out of that...

You don't think that God is great and wonderful enough that in the ages to come when everyone see's him for who he really is that everyone will not eventually choose him? Do you not believe the words of Jesus when he said if he be lifted up that he would draw all men?

 

[Lisa]

You don't think that God is great and wonderful enough that in the ages to come when everyone see's him for who he really is that everyone will not eventually choose him? Do you not believe the words of Jesus when he said if he be lifted up that he would draw all men?

He does draw all men but not all men take the offer...

Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.”
‭‭REVELATION‬ ‭20:4-9‬ ‭

After the tribulation then Jesus has His millennial reign, where He and the martyrs reign in His kingdom for a thousand years. After the thousand years where Jesus was King...satan is let loose again and is able to deceive people again about God, enough so that they want to go to war with God. You would think, that seeing God and being under His rule for a thousand years would make it so no one would want to go to war with God...but it just isn’t so.
“as it is written, “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.””
‭‭ROMANS‬ ‭3:10-12‬

 

[Todd]

He does draw all men but not all men take the offer...

Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.”
‭‭REVELATION‬ ‭20:4-9‬ ‭

After the tribulation then Jesus has His millennial reign, where He and the martyrs reign in His kingdom for a thousand years. After the thousand years where Jesus was King...satan is let loose again and is able to deceive people again about God, enough so that they want to go to war with God. You would think, that seeing God and being under His rule for a thousand years would make it so no one would want to go to war with God...but it just isn’t so.
“as it is written, “THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.””
‭‭ROMANS‬ ‭3:10-12‬

You are right when Jesus came the first time not everyone could see he was sent from God. Why would the second time be any different? Doesn't change my stance though. God will still not be seen face to face on this earth even during the millennial reign of Christ. You are still avoiding the question. Do you think God's greatness and glory when see in it's fullness, is not enough to convince all mankind who he is and that he alone is worthy? Do you really think that man's will shall prevail over God's will in the end? Do you take any credit for choosing God, Lisa, or did God choose you?

There are only two choices if eternal torment is true:
1. God is sadistic and has predestined many to suffer eternally
or
2. Man's will and choice is greater than God's will and choice.
So which one works for you?

 

[Haich]

the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth,

 

[Lisa]

You are right when Jesus came the first time not everyone could see he was sent from God. Why would the second time be any different? Doesn't change my stance though. God will still not be seen face to face on this earth even during the millennial reign of Christ. You are still avoiding the question. Do you think God's greatness and glory when see in it's fullness, is not enough to convince all mankind who he is and that he alone is worthy? Do you really think that man's will shall prevail over God's will in the end? Do you take any credit for choosing God, Lisa, or did God choose you?

There are only two choices if eternal torment is true:
1. God is sadistic and has predestined many to suffer eternally
or
2. Man's will and choice is greater than God's will and choice.
So which one works for you?

Why do you think God won’t be seen face to face in His millennial reign?

I think that if that’s all that was needed then Adam and Eve wouldn’t have fallen in the beginning. They saw God, walked with Him, talked with Him and still fell away from Him...seeing isn’t enough which is why we now walk by faith not sight, I suppose. We can also see where Cain knew God but He didn’t want to worship God as God wanted and went his own way too.
From the beginning its always been the choice to follow God or not, He didn’t force anyone, but He did warn what would happen if He was disobeyed.

No, the two choices are believe in the Lord Jesus and be saved or be thrown into the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. If He was sadistic...He wouldn’t give any way out of eternal torment and He surely wouldn’t have taken our punishment on Himself.