Once Saved Always Saved?

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
I strive this level of pettiness.
Luke 13 23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?” And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

You can take that up with the Lord.

You either strive or you will be told to go away... the Saviour said that. So i suggest you stop posting another gospel and start to strive just as He said. This is for your own good.

You can bite at me as much as you want... but if you are serious you do as the Saviour said. Strive !
 

Allegra

Veteran
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
667
Luke 13 23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?” And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

You can take that up with the Lord.

You either strive or you will be told to go away... the Saviour said that. So i suggest you stop posting another gospel and start to strive just as He said. This is for your own good.

You can bite at me as much as you want... but if you are serious you do as the Saviour said. Strive !
I’m nobody to act holier than thou.
God judges the heart. He knows our heart. I’m at peace to know that.
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
I’m nobody to act holier than thou.
God judges the heart. He knows our heart. I’m at peace to know that.
God is Holy so we must strive for holiness.

We might not get there but our striving will make up for it.

That's the graciousness of God.
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
There is no recipe for a relationship with God.

Conscience informs us that righteousness is right.

First time i prayed to this unknown God and got what i asked for... i considered it a coincidence. Same with the second and third time... until i could no longer ignore the consistency. Somebody in the universe was listening to my thoughts.

And that began my search for God... which for some reason began in India at the feet of a guru. L0L. God is a joker man.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
1,367
So you make null and void what the Saviour said ?

Luke 13 23Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.


No need to strive you say ?
You still don’t get it....

I am ALREADY SAVED.
I am CERTAIN that if I dropped dead right now I would lift up my eyes in Heaven.

I fully trust that Jesus paid for ALL of my sins.

The moment I let go of trusting in my own “goodness” and BELIEVED in HIS goodness to save me from Hell, I asked God to please give me the salvation Christ paid for and quicker than the blink of an eye, I was SAVED. Forever.

It occurred one time and has not departed since I received it in 2004.

You MUST get saved before ANY of your obedience to God’s laws count.

It doesn’t matter how obedient you think you are, if you have not placed ALL of your faith, trust & hope in the Gospel of Jesus Christ FIRST, you WILL GO TO HELL.

All the obedience you speak of is the walk with God: sanctification of the saved, reborn spirit. It applies to us who are ALREADY SAVED.

Without being saved, you CANNOT PLEASE God.....you are not even His child yet.

And by the way.....the MOST IMPORTANT work you can EVER do to please God is to share the Gospel with others & get them saved.

Here’s the catch—you CANNOT get anyone else saved if you are not saved yourself, because the Holy Spirit does not reside in you unless you are saved.


John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
1,367
So you make null and void what the Saviour said ?

Luke 13 23Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.


No need to strive you say ?
I have ALREADY entered the strait gate, which is FAITH in Jesus Christ.
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
I am ALREADY SAVED.
I am CERTAIN that if I dropped dead right now I would lift up my eyes in Heaven.
The Pharisees were sure they were saved... so subjective assurance of salvation does not impress me.


The moment I let go of trusting in my own “goodness” and BELIEVED in HIS goodness to save me from Hell, I asked God to please give me the salvation Christ paid for and quicker than the blink of an eye, I was SAVED. Forever.
According to you but according to the Saviour and the Apostles salvation is a strive.


It doesn’t matter how obedient you think you are, if you have not placed ALL of your faith, trust & hope in the Gospel of Jesus Christ FIRST, you WILL GO TO HELL.
It doesn't matter how much you trust in the Gospel of Jesus Christ if you don't do your good work and strive to live your life according to His will and words.
 
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
1,367
Luke 13 23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?” And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

You can take that up with the Lord.

You either strive or you will be told to go away... the Saviour said that. So i suggest you stop posting another gospel and start to strive just as He said. This is for your own good.

You can bite at me as much as you want... but if you are serious you do as the Saviour said. Strive !
1 Timothy 2: (KJB):

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

As you see, it is God’s Will that men be saved.
 

TokiEl

Superstar
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
1 Timothy 2: (KJB):

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

As you see, it is God’s Will that men be saved.
Luke 6 46Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say?

47I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them: 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid his foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the torrent crashed against that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

49But the one who hears My words and does not act on them is like a man who built his house on ground without a foundation. The torrent crashed against that house, and immediately it fell—and great was its destruction.”



As you see many will not do what the Lord said and so not be saved.
 

Daciple

Star
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,157
Man it breaks my heart how many people here have been lead astray with their Works Based Salvation False Doctrines. They think they need to add something to Christs already Perfect Work. They think their Filthy Rags have some kind of benefit to Gods Grace and Mercy. They think their Salvation is based on their performance, but then never actually take into account how terrible their performance really is.

One verse alone proves that all day every day you are riddled with Sin and NEVER can overcome it, therefore all the "Good Works" you are doing are completely tainted, day in and day out. In my opinion everyone that is pushing for either a Works Based Salvation or believes they can lose their Salvation are utterly full of Pride. And if you dont realize it, Pride is a Sin, and to think YOU are needing to keep or attain your Salvation by YOUR Works is an utterly Prideful thought and position to take. People act like Sin is just about things you do that you shouldnt but the fact is Sin encompasses so much more than that:

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Do all of you who believe you have your hand in your Salvation realize the absolute depth and impact of this verse in that aspect?

Anytime you know you should do something and dont do it, that is Sin! If we start adding JUST that up, it would become innumerable, but it would take certain people to be brutally honest with themselves to understand the impact of that on your Works Based Salvation.

How often are we called to pray? ALWAYS, how many time a day are you NOT in Prayer? You cant even count it.

See someone begging for food, want to tell me the Spirit doesnt convict you to try and take care of them? It does me, but how often do you actually pull over? Probably little to none.

I work in the service industry, do you know how often I hear about others situations where I want to hug or pray or any number of things that cross my mind? If you are HONEST with yourself, that exact thing happens to you ALL DAY LONG, therefore ALL DAY LONG you are NOT following what you KNOW you ought to do and guess what every single time, its all SIN.

And you want to tell me you Repent of all of these things? Really? I mean if you are going to be HONEST then you know 100% you do NOT Repent of these things in any real manner, because you drive right past the next guy on the street making up some excuse as to how or why you cant pull over and help him.

You keep your mouth shut with the person who told you some hard time they are going thru or even overhear it. You get in a situation and dont pray about it and go on about your day.

Do you read your Bible every day? How about every moment of free time that you have? Well everyone on this site clearly isnt using all their free time to study and pray now are they? Therefore you KNOW you are not doing something you ought to be doing, therefore it is SIN.

We can take this down to thoughts if you really want to get honest with yourself and with us. How many thoughts a day do you have of what you ought to do, and then they get bypassed? How many times do you think I ought to do this, but dont? Again if you are HONEST then you would admit to yourself and us that its so many you can not possibly count it.

Therefore when we take into account all of this, and then try and merit OUR hand in Salvation, you can see how utterly hopeless and pointless every "Good" deed you do is. In fact if you really truly want to get HONEST how many of your "Good" deeds are actually done with a truly "Good" intent?

In fact lets take that down to the Gospel Truth of Good, is there anything you ever do that is actually Good?

Luke 18:9 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

So if there is only one who can be called Good and that is God Himself then are you ready to tell me the things you do are exactly as God would have them done 100%?

The facts are even our "Good" works are imperfect, because we who are not perfect are doing them. Whether it is because the intention is incorrect or moreover NOT perfect, or the action itself is NOT perfect, whatever it is, it is NOT perfect because only God is Perfect.

What I see on here are 2 sets of people, the first are people who think they are able to do Good Works and think they are Good Enough to add to whatever it is that it takes to receive and maintain Salvation. That of course contradicts Scripture and the fact that they are NOT Perfect so any Good Works are tainted to begin with and to add on top of that all day long they are NOT doing 99% of the things they KNOW they should be doing AND they are not actually truly Repenting of it, because it happens all day every day, so they are utterly and completely steeped in Sin.

They are the ones who are steeped in Sin, covered from head to toe in the blackness of Sin, trying to do Good Works that actually arent really any Good at all and they are standing in front of God with literal rags of Sin steeped in Sin and saying Look God what I have done today, dont I get to keep my Salvation, did I do whats needed today to keep it?

Then we have the other set of people, the ones who have completely recognized where they stand before God when it comes to their ability to offer anything to Him for Salvation. The ones who recognized that they are continually and totally fallen short of the Standard that is needed to even THINK of attaining or keeping Salvation. The ones who understand with zero doubts their own Goodness and the Goodness of their Works before a Perfectly Righteous and Holy God.

They stand before God looking exactly like the other set of people, steeped in Sin with Rags of Sin, however the conversation is different, instead of trying to get God to look at their "Good" works, they bow before Him and say something like Oh God I am not worthy, I know I am full of Sin and my Works are tainted, please dont look at me, please look at Jesus, He is Perfect, His Works are Perfect everything about Him is Perfect, please God let me stand behind Him!!

One set of people are Justified before God the other not, which set are you going to be in?

Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
 

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
Do all of you who believe you have your hand in your Salvation realize the absolute depth and impact of this verse in that aspect?
I would never have even thought that anyone could fall away except that it says we can in the Bible. I would never have thought that falling away was so bad except that it says so in the Bible. I thought I did a good job with my post that laid it all out as for why I thought the way I thought.

At least I laid out my opinion with scripture, you’re bleeding emotion all over yours and I wouldn’t call that proof. Since the Bereans were praised for searching the Bible...
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
37
"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39).

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:28-29).

These verses are often quoted by Christians who believe and teach that once a person chooses to believe in Christ they can never be lost. The doctrine is sometimes referred to as “eternal security.” It is the assurance of salvation to all who once accepted Christ as their Saviour, regardless of what they might believe or do from that moment onward. Is this what the Bible teaches?


Freedom of Choice

The idea that a person can never lose their salvation once they’ve accepted the gift of salvation is akin to the doctrine of predestination, which is the belief that God alone chooses who will be lost and who will be saved and human beings have no real say in the matter. These doctrines of “eternal security” and predestination rule out freedom of choice. But freedom of choice is a fundamental principle of Bible teachings and the fairness of God depends upon it. Therefore, the above Scriptures must be interpreted in light of this overarching principle of freedom of choice.

Does Salvation Take Away Your Freedom of Choice?

The Bible clearly teaches that people have the freedom to choose whether they will be saved or lost and whether they will serve God or Satan. Does God take away a person’s right to freely choose or change his mind once he becomes a Christian? Or can someone turn away from following Christ once they’ve been saved and defect to the enemy? Is it possible to be lost once you’ve been saved? Let’s see what Jesus teaches about freedom of choice and eternal security.


Dangers of Once-Saved-Always-Saved Doctrine

The main problem in believing the once-saved-always-saved doctrine is that it leads to complacency toward personal spiritual growth and the state of fellow-believers and leads to a false sense of security that can actually result in eternal loss.


Complacency

If one believes that once they’ve accepted salvation there is nothing they can do to ever lose their salvation, they can become complacent about their relationship with Christ, because regardless of whether they spend time nurturing that relationship or not, they believe they will always be saved. This is an extremely dangerous attitude. The Bible clearly teaches otherwise.


Lack of Growth

Consider also the effect of the doctrine of eternal salvation on spiritual growth in believers. A relationship with Christ is dynamic. Jesus expects us to learn and grow because sanctification is a process. Remember that Jesus compared believers to branches on a vine. As a Christian studies the Bible, he learns new truth, applies it to his life and grows. Jesus called Himself the bread of life because He knew that everyone understood that eating is a continual necessity throughout life and that physical maintenance and growth are the result of taking food daily. Christians must grow.

Peter applied this principle of Christian growth to the necessity of ongoing assimilation of spiritual food from the Word of God and encouraged new believers to study the Scriptures: “As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby” (1 Peter 2:2). Paul also described new believers as being like milk-fed infants who need to grow and mature before they can handle more solid food (1 Corinthians 3:2). The author of Acts points to Apollos as a real-life case study of the kind of spiritual growth that must exemplify the life of every believer. Read his story in Acts 18: 24-28.


Lack of Response

Significantly, James warned that once a Christian understands God’s will he must act upon it. Not acting upon truth as it is discovered during our study of God’s Word is sinning, James warned.

"Therefore to him that knoweth how to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin" (James 4:17).

Sadly, some evangelists have discovered that the doctrine of eternal salvation is a hindrance to spiritual growth in those who believe it, because they feel no necessity in assimilating new spiritual truths when they discover them, since there is nothing they can do to lose their salvation, regardless of James’ warning to the contrary.

In addition to disregarding sin in their own lives, believers in the doctrine of eternal security must also become complacent to the sin of other Christians, since it matters not whether a “saved” Christian falls into sin. The doctrines of eternal security and predestination make exhortation against sin unnecessary, since by predestination God saves some and damns others apart from their free choice, and the once-saved-always-saved doctrine may excuse sin in those who consider themselves to be safely secure for all eternity.


Conclusion

The doctrine of “eternal security” is not supported by Scripture as a whole. It is based on a shallow reading of some verses and requires rejection of the Biblically solid doctrine of freedom of choice. Since freedom of choice is God-given and absolute, it is possible for a person to change his or her mind at any time and reject salvation.
God prom
"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39).

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:28-29).

These verses are often quoted by Christians who believe and teach that once a person chooses to believe in Christ they can never be lost. The doctrine is sometimes referred to as “eternal security.” It is the assurance of salvation to all who once accepted Christ as their Saviour, regardless of what they might believe or do from that moment onward. Is this what the Bible teaches?


Freedom of Choice

The idea that a person can never lose their salvation once they’ve accepted the gift of salvation is akin to the doctrine of predestination, which is the belief that God alone chooses who will be lost and who will be saved and human beings have no real say in the matter. These doctrines of “eternal security” and predestination rule out freedom of choice. But freedom of choice is a fundamental principle of Bible teachings and the fairness of God depends upon it. Therefore, the above Scriptures must be interpreted in light of this overarching principle of freedom of choice.

Does Salvation Take Away Your Freedom of Choice?

The Bible clearly teaches that people have the freedom to choose whether they will be saved or lost and whether they will serve God or Satan. Does God take away a person’s right to freely choose or change his mind once he becomes a Christian? Or can someone turn away from following Christ once they’ve been saved and defect to the enemy? Is it possible to be lost once you’ve been saved? Let’s see what Jesus teaches about freedom of choice and eternal security.


Dangers of Once-Saved-Always-Saved Doctrine

The main problem in believing the once-saved-always-saved doctrine is that it leads to complacency toward personal spiritual growth and the state of fellow-believers and leads to a false sense of security that can actually result in eternal loss.


Complacency

If one believes that once they’ve accepted salvation there is nothing they can do to ever lose their salvation, they can become complacent about their relationship with Christ, because regardless of whether they spend time nurturing that relationship or not, they believe they will always be saved. This is an extremely dangerous attitude. The Bible clearly teaches otherwise.


Lack of Growth

Consider also the effect of the doctrine of eternal salvation on spiritual growth in believers. A relationship with Christ is dynamic. Jesus expects us to learn and grow because sanctification is a process. Remember that Jesus compared believers to branches on a vine. As a Christian studies the Bible, he learns new truth, applies it to his life and grows. Jesus called Himself the bread of life because He knew that everyone understood that eating is a continual necessity throughout life and that physical maintenance and growth are the result of taking food daily. Christians must grow.

Peter applied this principle of Christian growth to the necessity of ongoing assimilation of spiritual food from the Word of God and encouraged new believers to study the Scriptures: “As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby” (1 Peter 2:2). Paul also described new believers as being like milk-fed infants who need to grow and mature before they can handle more solid food (1 Corinthians 3:2). The author of Acts points to Apollos as a real-life case study of the kind of spiritual growth that must exemplify the life of every believer. Read his story in Acts 18: 24-28.


Lack of Response

Significantly, James warned that once a Christian understands God’s will he must act upon it. Not acting upon truth as it is discovered during our study of God’s Word is sinning, James warned.

"Therefore to him that knoweth how to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin" (James 4:17).

Sadly, some evangelists have discovered that the doctrine of eternal salvation is a hindrance to spiritual growth in those who believe it, because they feel no necessity in assimilating new spiritual truths when they discover them, since there is nothing they can do to lose their salvation, regardless of James’ warning to the contrary.

In addition to disregarding sin in their own lives, believers in the doctrine of eternal security must also become complacent to the sin of other Christians, since it matters not whether a “saved” Christian falls into sin. The doctrines of eternal security and predestination make exhortation against sin unnecessary, since by predestination God saves some and damns others apart from their free choice, and the once-saved-always-saved doctrine may excuse sin in those who consider themselves to be safely secure for all eternity.


Conclusion

The doctrine of “eternal security” is not supported by Scripture as a whole. It is based on a shallow reading of some verses and requires rejection of the Biblically solid doctrine of freedom of choice. Since freedom of choice is God-given and absolute, it is possible for a person to change his or her mind at any time and reject salvation.

God promises eternal life. If God promises us eternal life and then came and took it away then that would make God a liar, and Titus 1:2 tells us that God cannot lie. In John chapter 10 the Bible says my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me and I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. That any man includes you as a believer. Being saved is a one-time event once you are saved you are saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit of redemption. You can't pluck yourself out of God's hand and God is not going to throw you away because you have become Born Again into his family. Just like there is nothing that you could do to not be your mother child, once you are a child of God then you are always his child. If we commit sins and do bad things then God will punish us on this Earth in this life but once we are saved we are always saved because the gift is eternal. The Bible doesn't say we get conditional life or temporary life. It's Eternal. And it's our soul that gets eternal life not our body. Once We Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ our soul is quickened and we are passed from Death unto Life John chapter 5 verse 24. Also, the Bible calls salvation a gift. A gift is free there are no conditions on a gift. So if God is giving us the gift of eternal life he already paid for that gift. There is nothing that we have to do to keep that gift. Jesus Paid It All. If you think you could lose your salvation and you're basically saying I have to be a good person to keep my salvation. And if you think you have to work to keep your salvation, then you're not trusting in Jesus to get you to heaven. You're trusting in works. It's either Grace or it faith alone. You can't have it both ways. And Matthew 7 is a chapter that tells us what's going to happen to people who think their good works are going to get them into heaven. The Lord will say depart from me I never knew you. And also check out Matthew chapter 5 verse 19. Sorry for the bad English but I'm chilling right now and don't feel like writing a proper paragraph. I would suggest going to YouTube and typing in the Bible way to heaven. Pastor Steven Anderson also did A good sermon on once saved always saved. You can watch both on YouTube.
 

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
God prom



God promises eternal life. If God promises us eternal life and then came and took it away then that would make God a liar, and Titus 1:2 tells us that God cannot lie. In John chapter 10 the Bible says my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me and I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. That any man includes you as a believer. Being saved is a one-time event once you are saved you are saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit of redemption. You can't pluck yourself out of God's hand and God is not going to throw you away because you have become Born Again into his family. Just like there is nothing that you could do to not be your mother child, once you are a child of God then you are always his child. If we commit sins and do bad things then God will punish us on this Earth in this life but once we are saved we are always saved because the gift is eternal. The Bible doesn't say we get conditional life or temporary life. It's Eternal. And it's our soul that gets eternal life not our body. Once We Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ our soul is quickened and we are passed from Death unto Life John chapter 5 verse 24. Also, the Bible calls salvation a gift. A gift is free there are no conditions on a gift. So if God is giving us the gift of eternal life he already paid for that gift. There is nothing that we have to do to keep that gift. Jesus Paid It All. If you think you could lose your salvation and you're basically saying I have to be a good person to keep my salvation. And if you think you have to work to keep your salvation, then you're not trusting in Jesus to get you to heaven. You're trusting in works. It's either Grace or it faith alone. You can't have it both ways. And Matthew 7 is a chapter that tells us what's going to happen to people who think their good works are going to get them into heaven. The Lord will say depart from me I never knew you. And also check out Matthew chapter 5 verse 19. Sorry for the bad English but I'm chilling right now and don't feel like writing a proper paragraph. I would suggest going to YouTube and typing in the Bible way to heaven. Pastor Steven Anderson also did A good sermon on once saved always saved. You can watch both on YouTube.
So what do you think about this verse...

1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
37
Im not asking about backsliding, I am asking if you can actually lose your Salvation out right have it gone then gain it back.

Do you not believe there is a difference between backsliding and actually losing your Salvation?

At what point does someone actually lose it, if it can be lost as you suggest? Is it 25 Sins? 50? 1000?

Can you give us Scripture that tells us exactly when we lose our Salvation, how many Sins or whatever it is that that determines when our Salvation is lost? I need to know because I wouldnt ever want to lose my Salvation and I struggle with some Sins, I struggle with my Faith, I struggle in my walk all the time and you are telling me my Salvation is in Jeopardy. That Jesus Christs work on the Cross isnt good enough for my Salvation, that I need to maintain it, that I need to keep my own Salvation.

Jesus' perfect life, Jesus perfect walk, Jesus perfect Death, perfect Sacrifice, perfect Resurrection and Ascension, isnt good enough to get me to Heaven or keep me Justified before God, that now I have to worry about everything I do, because we dont know when Jesus is going to reject me because of Sin or unfaithfulness or whatever else it is that you would like to tell us can cause us to forfeit our Salvation.

You are saying that Jesus Blood isnt quite good enough to keep my Salvation, and that Jesus has and does look at people whom He literally died for, for ALL of their Sins, and then accepts them, they are Born Again, and He sits back and waits until they do whatever it is that you say causes us to forfeit their Salvation and lets them go to Hell. Jesus literally knows that even tho they have come to Him and believed on Him and are at some point Saved and Born Again, He knows they will forfeit it and He sits back and allows it to happen instead of taking them home.

See I ask if someone can have Salvation and lose it and then gain it back because Scirpture is actually very specific about this, and the answer is NO they can not ever receive Salvation again IF (big if there as in its not really possible) they were able to lose it. To do so is to cause Christ to be Re Sacrificed.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It is impossible to lose Salvation and get it back, it can not be done, so are you going to preached to the Saved that they indeed can lose their Salvation because then you also must tell them that if they lose it, they CAN NOT EVER REPENT and come back.

The fact is when someone truly has accepted Christ they become a New Creature that WILL NEVER lose their Salvation. I have written extensively on this topic, and you are welcome to read our debates on this on these Threads if you so choose:

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/calvinism-vs-arminianism.2657/#post-86554

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/is-molinism-the-key-to-the-free-will-and-predestination-paradox.3281/#post-98408

I believe the Truth of this matter lies in the understanding of Molinism, research it and see what it says...
Once saved always saved. If you believe you could lose your salvation then you're trusting in your Works to keep you saved. You're not putting all of your faith on Jesus Christ. I suggest watching the video on YouTube by Pastor Steven Anderson called once saved always saved.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
37
So what do you think about this verse...

1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.
This is not a verse that deals with salvation and what one must do to be saved. In this chapter Paul is exhorting Timothy, a young preacher to be a good preacher and Paul is warning Timothy about false religion. What do you think about John 3:16 that says that whosoever believeth in him. It doesn't say believe it and is a good person. What do you think about acts 16:30 and 31 where the response is Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. What do you think about Romans chapter 4? What about Galatians 2:16 which says three times that a man is not justified by The Works of the law? Or what do you think about the last verse in Galatians that says I do not frustrate the grace of Christ for if righteousness come by the law then Christ is dead in vain. If I could save myself and you could save yourself then why did Jesus need to die? We're all Sinners we all fall short that's why we need a savior. He paid it all. Faith alone. Plus nothing minus nothing.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
37
1 Corinthians 3

10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

My questions:

1: What kind of "works" are gold, silver, precious stones

2: What kind of works are wood, hay, stubble

3: What happens to the works in #2?

4: What happens to the believer with "type 2" works?

5: What happens to the believer with "type 1" works?
1. Going out and preaching the gospel is an example of gold. 2. Being obsessed with working hard so that you can accumulate a lot of material well is an example of wood hay and stubble. 3. Works in number two are burned because they are of no Eternal value. 4. Still saved and get rewards in heaven for doing work that pleases the Lord. 5. Still saved and doesn't get any rewards in heaven. Daniel chapter 12 verse 3 talks about a reward for turning many to righteousness- going out and preaching the gospel and getting people saved. We don't work our way to heaven. Everyone gets to Heaven because it is a free gift given to us by Jesus Christ for those of us who believe. But those of us who believe and do work will be rewarded for work that is of Eternal value. The laborer is worthy of his hire.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
14,667
1. Going out and preaching the gospel is an example of gold. 2. Being obsessed with working hard so that you can accumulate a lot of material well is an example of wood hay and stubble. 3. Works in number two are burned because they are of no Eternal value. 4. Still saved and get rewards in heaven for doing work that pleases the Lord. 5. Still saved and doesn't get any rewards in heaven. Daniel chapter 12 verse 3 talks about a reward for turning many to righteousness- going out and preaching the gospel and getting people saved. We don't work our way to heaven. Everyone gets to Heaven because it is a free gift given to us by Jesus Christ for those of us who believe. But those of us who believe and do work will be rewarded for work that is of Eternal value. The laborer is worthy of his hire.
^100% agree
 

phipps

Star
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
4,894
God prom



God promises eternal life. If God promises us eternal life and then came and took it away then that would make God a liar, and Titus 1:2 tells us that God cannot lie. In John chapter 10 the Bible says my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me and I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. That any man includes you as a believer. Being saved is a one-time event once you are saved you are saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit of redemption. You can't pluck yourself out of God's hand and God is not going to throw you away because you have become Born Again into his family. Just like there is nothing that you could do to not be your mother child, once you are a child of God then you are always his child. If we commit sins and do bad things then God will punish us on this Earth in this life but once we are saved we are always saved because the gift is eternal. The Bible doesn't say we get conditional life or temporary life. It's Eternal. And it's our soul that gets eternal life not our body. Once We Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ our soul is quickened and we are passed from Death unto Life John chapter 5 verse 24. Also, the Bible calls salvation a gift. A gift is free there are no conditions on a gift. So if God is giving us the gift of eternal life he already paid for that gift. There is nothing that we have to do to keep that gift. Jesus Paid It All. If you think you could lose your salvation and you're basically saying I have to be a good person to keep my salvation. And if you think you have to work to keep your salvation, then you're not trusting in Jesus to get you to heaven. You're trusting in works. It's either Grace or it faith alone. You can't have it both ways. And Matthew 7 is a chapter that tells us what's going to happen to people who think their good works are going to get them into heaven. The Lord will say depart from me I never knew you. And also check out Matthew chapter 5 verse 19. Sorry for the bad English but I'm chilling right now and don't feel like writing a proper paragraph. I would suggest going to YouTube and typing in the Bible way to heaven. Pastor Steven Anderson also did A good sermon on once saved always saved. You can watch both on YouTube.
I refer you to all my posts on this forum as I've posted more than enough on this subject. You are just reiterating what the others who disagree with me have said to me. The scripture I posted of which there is alot can't be misunderstood and is very clear. The Bible harmonises on this subject from the Old to the New Testament. The only ones who are promised eternal life are those who do God's will and endure to the end. If someone chooses not to obey God and expect to make it to heaven just because they accepted God as their personal Saviour and got baptised they have misunderstood God and His Word. Those are the people Jesus will tell that He does not know them.

I especially refer you to this piece that talks about Titus 1.

Its up to you if you believe and follow the Word of God or a doctrine that was brought in by Satan to make Christians secure in their sins and to continue sinning thinking they will be saved anyway.
 
Last edited:
Top