Who do Muslims really worship?

billy t

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371
you believe that Allah sent messengers to all nations, yet you find it hard to believe that there are truths hidden within their systems?
In taoism they do have an absolute God.
If you read the advaita vedanta material, although it isnt strictly monothiest, more monist, they also are strict in believing and worshipping Ishvara (God) alone.

the 7 heavens in the ascension story in hadith, connect with prophets on each level, with the second heaven having both John the Baptist and Isa AS. The corresponding chakrad linked to the soul, are what those prophets symbolise. it's very easy to research each chakra and see the connection to the prophet.
For example, the sacral chakra (the second one), it's symbol is water which is symbolic of the life force. it is connected with fertility, life, growth etc. the connection to those prophets makes obvious sense.
the third chakra, the solar plexus chakra is linked to the astral plane which represents Desire...which is a byproduct of self-cognizance. it's also the dream world. Joseph is symbolic of this chakra/heaven because he experienced the power of lust but only through God's intercession could he overcome it.
the 5th chakra is the throat chakra, which on a higher metaphysical level connects with the origin of the soul, with communication. go back to the Quran, the first thing the souls experienced was communication with Allah and they responded (that is passive and active which goes onto the other theme ill follow up with). the chakra means 'to be born'. The connection is with Aaron AS, again it's just symbolic. Aaron AS was an eloquent speaker. of course there is a lot more to this if you start going into details and trying to make sense of why each chakra/level specifically exists in that order...


Kabballah's 5 central sephirot are the connection to the 5 salahs in fact. The left and right side are about our metaphysical descent and ascent and connect with Allah's Tracendence and Immanence, also called Jalali and Jamali. It also connects with taoist philosophy ie yin and yang. It's the same metaphysical truth/map.
the kabballah system is already within sufi islam. i only refer to 'kabballah' because itsmore concentrated and easier to research since sufi texts are scattered and not really organised. for example even this connection im making is after i read the book of Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani, the 'secret of secrets'. Even still you would prob not see the connection imm aking because you're not as familiar with the themes and the language around them. it's only when you become familiar with how terms are related you 'see' what's being said in various advanced sufi texts.

the other issue is that far more has been lost by muslims than what we have. the lost libraries of timbuktu were full of metaphysical treatise. all stolen/destroyed by the colonialists? the library in bhaghdad was destroyed.
i think the thing you should be more dedicated to learning, given you're lucky to be living in the age of information and have access to material. maybe if you read and thought you'd have your own input instead of accusing me of bidah lol.

as for 'innovation'
actually in islam, we have a clear line between Halal and Haram aswell as mukruh (disliked).
All that is halal is ALLOWED
The issue is that there's also a clear line containing divinely prescribed obligations...
innovation occurs when any of these lines or the divinely prescribed obligations are altered even a little.
what im saying above has nothing to do with that, it isnt even bidah. it is an opinion...but it isnt some useless opinion.

still, it isnt necessary for you to know any of this...you dont need to have any interest but ignorance is bliss i guess.
You claim Muslims lost certain pieces of knowledge. Didn't the Messenger salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam say "I left you with two things if you hold on to them you will never go astray? The book of Allah and my Sunnah? Yet you seen to think muslims need something else. Allah mentions that the quran is a healing for the diseases of the heart so why would we need some secret Sufi knowledge to do it? Typical sufi logic. I advise you to follow quran and sunnah upon the understanding of the salaf. Anything that opposes the collective ubderstanding of the first three generations is a path to the hellfire.
 






muslimah

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Messages
80
The kabbalah is a book of sihr (magic). Fear Allah. The Chakras stuff is all based on the shirk of the Hindus. So far I have worked out the following about you. 1) you are Sufi. 2) you believe Paul was rightly guided. 3) you mention parallels between Islam and a book of magic. You are an mubtadi' innovator and very dangerous. I warn all Muslims here to beware of this guy. I advised you already do the proofs have been established and there is no need to be gentle with you at this point.
I think you meant to reply to the person I was quoting
 






Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
1,355
You claim Muslims lost certain pieces of knowledge. Didn't the Messenger salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam say "I left you with two things if you hold on to them you will never go astray? The book of Allah and my Sunnah? Yet you seen to think muslims need something else. Allah mentions that the quran is a healing for the diseases of the heart so why would we need some secret Sufi knowledge to do it? Typical sufi logic. I advise you to follow quran and sunnah upon the understanding of the salaf. Anything that opposes the collective ubderstanding of the first three generations is a path to the hellfire.
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْيِ هَدْيُ مُحَمَّدٍ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَشَرُّ الْأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلُّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلُّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلَالَةٌ وَكُلُّ ضَلَالَةٍ فِي النَّارِ
 






Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,109
@billy t
you wrote
You claim Muslims lost certain pieces of knowledge. Didn't the Messenger salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam say "I left you with two things if you hold on to them you will never go astray? The book of Allah and my Sunnah? Yet you seen to think muslims need something else. Allah mentions that the quran is a healing for the diseases of the heart so why would we need some secret Sufi knowledge to do it? Typical sufi logic. I advise you to follow quran and sunnah upon the understanding of the salaf. Anything that opposes the collective ubderstanding of the first three generations is a path to the hellfire.

1) When the prophet SAW said 'i left YOU WITH TWO THINGS' was he talking to you?
no, he was talking to those people who had witnessed his sunnah...

“O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again.

those people, that time, that place, that context..
the sunnah of the prophet SAW was for those people....a hikmah subject to contexts that don't even apply today (this isnt about the other topic, this is just a general point).

the fact you thought he was talking to you directly shows how one dimensional you are...why would i waste my time with ignorant guys like that? forget it..ill answer you here but i have you on ignore otherwise for a reason. i dont have much tolerance for takfiri people.


2) in fact all of what ive said about the 7 heavens linking them to 7 chakras is based on the hadith of the ascension of the prophet SAW.
It is through common sense that I believe in a 'metaphysical truth' because all humans share in the same nature. Doesnt matter what people believe, those are their own interpretations, but you surely believe our nature inc our metaphysical nature is the same?
so in islam there are 7 heavens..and prophets representing them...
and from that alone i could easily see that the chakra system is the same?
the 7 chakras connect with 7 lokas (heavens)...
in an earlier post i directly gave examples of at least 3 chakras and showed how it's so obvious why the prophets representing that heaven is there..

3)
you wrote
Allah mentions that the quran is a healing for the diseases of the heart so why would we need some secret Sufi knowledge to do it?
im interested in understanding the Quran.....

for example when Isa AS is called the 'Word of Allah'
that refers to the LOGOS which was a greek hellenistic philosophical concept...
so it's pretty damn funny for you to act hard here and diss sufism, when the quran itself references something that came out of greek philosophy. Thing is, the logos concept was absorbed by the greeks from persian, egyptian and HINDU philosophy.
Isa AS as the Word made flesh, is called 'the incarnation' in the Gospel...
and if you continue...

And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #46)

so the 'incarnation of the LOGOS' in the Gospel, is confirmed in the Quran..and the Gospel is without reproach...and yet you TRASH THE SAME GOSPEL.
Furthermore, the LOGOS INCARNATION is hinduism, it is the incarnation of VISHNU the universal spirit/consciousness.

had the Quran dismissed the Gospel, i'd say 'yeh all this incarnation stuff, i dont care for it'
but since the Quran confirmed the Gospel, then that led me to further study the themes within the Gospel, their philosophical origins which clearly once again goes back to hinduism and ancient egypt.


It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah surrounds all things in (His) Knowledge.
(سورة الطلاق, At-Talaaq, Chapter #65, Verse #12)

'of the earth'
Bani Adam, man, as in we are microcosms of the seven heavens...
as in the 7 chakras within us..
the sufis have the 7 lataif system but it is based on a different system of metaphysics eg Khafi and Akhfa refer to levels higher than the 7 heavens (but that's a different topic, not one id expect a 2 bit moron like you to understand).

do you want to challenge me on anything else?
you should be ashamed of yoursaelf, you and other muslims on here attacking the gospel which has divine confirmation behind it..and yet you follow pseudo hadith..and im sure you all think Mohammad was having sex with the 9 yr old bride
your stupidity only harmed islam.


@muslimah
all things are halal for us except what Allah has clearly told us is haram.
so your littleinterpretation of 'bidah' means nothing to me
for example the prophet SAW didnt practice daily taraveeh jamaat in ramadan, but Umar RA made it compulsary and he said 'this is a GOOD INNOVATION'
the reality is that the innovation hadith doesnt even quote from the prophet SAW and it also was spoken within a certain context local to those people, it wasnt a general statement.
the hikmah of the prophet SAW for a particular time, couldnt be different upon by other muslims.
when contexts change the hikmah changes..

if something is clearly not haram, how can you attack it?
innovation applied to the specific hikmah of the prophet SAW in that particular context, would have been wrong
otherwise innovation made to specific rules of islam is obv haram anyway..
so you clearly don't understand how innovation applies let alone what it means.

A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new knowledge.
(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #151)


new knowledge is not in opposition to scripture...
new knowledge only adds to our understanding of scripture finding deeper explanations.

what did the prophet SAW say on knowledge?
but apparently seeking knowledge is bidah, shirk and kufr
you wobblers take the piss. dumb people. you need to move to riyadh, the city of dajjal where all your book material is printed.
 






billy t

Established
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
371
@billy t
you wrote
You claim Muslims lost certain pieces of knowledge. Didn't the Messenger salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam say "I left you with two things if you hold on to them you will never go astray? The book of Allah and my Sunnah? Yet you seen to think muslims need something else. Allah mentions that the quran is a healing for the diseases of the heart so why would we need some secret Sufi knowledge to do it? Typical sufi logic. I advise you to follow quran and sunnah upon the understanding of the salaf. Anything that opposes the collective ubderstanding of the first three generations is a path to the hellfire.

1) When the prophet SAW said 'i left YOU WITH TWO THINGS' was he talking to you?
no, he was talking to those people who had witnessed his sunnah...

“O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again.

those people, that time, that place, that context..
the sunnah of the prophet SAW was for those people....a hikmah subject to contexts that don't even apply today (this isnt about the other topic, this is just a general point).

the fact you thought he was talking to you directly shows how one dimensional you are...why would i waste my time with ignorant guys like that? forget it..ill answer you here but i have you on ignore otherwise for a reason. i dont have much tolerance for takfiri people.


2) in fact all of what ive said about the 7 heavens linking them to 7 chakras is based on the hadith of the ascension of the prophet SAW.
It is through common sense that I believe in a 'metaphysical truth' because all humans share in the same nature. Doesnt matter what people believe, those are their own interpretations, but you surely believe our nature inc our metaphysical nature is the same?
so in islam there are 7 heavens..and prophets representing them...
and from that alone i could easily see that the chakra system is the same?
the 7 chakras connect with 7 lokas (heavens)...
in an earlier post i directly gave examples of at least 3 chakras and showed how it's so obvious why the prophets representing that heaven is there..

3)
you wrote
Allah mentions that the quran is a healing for the diseases of the heart so why would we need some secret Sufi knowledge to do it?
im interested in understanding the Quran.....

for example when Isa AS is called the 'Word of Allah'
that refers to the LOGOS which was a greek hellenistic philosophical concept...
so it's pretty damn funny for you to act hard here and diss sufism, when the quran itself references something that came out of greek philosophy. Thing is, the logos concept was absorbed by the greeks from persian, egyptian and HINDU philosophy.
Isa AS as the Word made flesh, is called 'the incarnation' in the Gospel...
and if you continue...

And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #46)

so the 'incarnation of the LOGOS' in the Gospel, is confirmed in the Quran..and the Gospel is without reproach...and yet you TRASH THE SAME GOSPEL.
Furthermore, the LOGOS INCARNATION is hinduism, it is the incarnation of VISHNU the universal spirit/consciousness.

had the Quran dismissed the Gospel, i'd say 'yeh all this incarnation stuff, i dont care for it'
but since the Quran confirmed the Gospel, then that led me to further study the themes within the Gospel, their philosophical origins which clearly once again goes back to hinduism and ancient egypt.


It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah surrounds all things in (His) Knowledge.
(سورة الطلاق, At-Talaaq, Chapter #65, Verse #12)

'of the earth'
Bani Adam, man, as in we are microcosms of the seven heavens...
as in the 7 chakras within us..
the sufis have the 7 lataif system but it is based on a different system of metaphysics eg Khafi and Akhfa refer to levels higher than the 7 heavens (but that's a different topic, not one id expect a 2 bit moron like you to understand).

do you want to challenge me on anything else?
you should be ashamed of yoursaelf, you and other muslims on here attacking the gospel which has divine confirmation behind it..and yet you follow pseudo hadith..and im sure you all think Mohammad was having sex with the 9 yr old bride
your stupidity only harmed islam.


@muslimah
all things are halal for us except what Allah has clearly told us is haram.
so your littleinterpretation of 'bidah' means nothing to me
for example the prophet SAW didnt practice daily taraveeh jamaat in ramadan, but Umar RA made it compulsary and he said 'this is a GOOD INNOVATION'
the reality is that the innovation hadith doesnt even quote from the prophet SAW and it also was spoken within a certain context local to those people, it wasnt a general statement.
the hikmah of the prophet SAW for a particular time, couldnt be different upon by other muslims.
when contexts change the hikmah changes..

if something is clearly not haram, how can you attack it?
innovation applied to the specific hikmah of the prophet SAW in that particular context, would have been wrong
otherwise innovation made to specific rules of islam is obv haram anyway..
so you clearly don't understand how innovation applies let alone what it means.

A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new knowledge.
(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #151)


new knowledge is not in opposition to scripture...
new knowledge only adds to our understanding of scripture finding deeper explanations.

what did the prophet SAW say on knowledge?
but apparently seeking knowledge is bidah, shirk and kufr
you wobblers take the piss. dumb people. you need to move to riyadh, the city of dajjal where all your book material is printed.
SubhaanAllah.

Imaam as-Saaboonee (d. 449H) said about Ahlus-Sunnah, "They
follow the Salafus-Saalih the Imaams and the Scholars of the Muslims, and they cling to the firm deen that they clung to and to the clear truth. And they hate Ahul-Bid'ah (the People of Innovation) who innovate into the Deen that which is not from it. They do not love them and they do not keep company with them. They do not listen to their sayings, nor sit with them, nor argue with them about the Deen, nor debate with them. Rather, they protect their ears from hearing their futility; things, which if they pass through the ears and settle in the hearts, will cause harm and cause doubts and wicked ideas to appear. And concerning this Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic, sent down: "And when you see people engaged in vain discourse about Our Signs, then turn away from them unless they turn to a different theme".

I will block this individual and I advise other Muslims on here to do the same. If you click on the ahmaqs profile there is an ignore button. I advise Muslims on here to do this. The early Muslims did not used to argue with Ahlul Bidah. Yes, you advise them if they are ignorant but if they persist on their bidah after clear evidences then you should avoid arguing with them.

Allah says, "hold to kindness and enjoin the good and turn away from the ignorant".
wallahu musta'aan.
 






Last edited:

Daze

Established
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
465
That's not even mentioning other places he may get money like ads and sponsorships on his videos (I don't watch them so I don't know how prominently they are featured but I wouldn't be surprised if he does do that)

Also the guy admits to being a "diagnosed psychopath" (you can't be diagnosed with psychopathy btw it's not a mental disorder in the DSM) and seems proud about it like some edgy 15 year old. You can see his self-described "psychopathy" at work when he pretty much admits that he doesn't care about the quality of his arguments he just wants to throw random doubts at Muslims and hopes something sticks, you know like Satan would do.
I seen a video over a year ago. It was some kind of biography with David Wood, talking about how he came to Christianity and he mentioned things in his history.

He told a story about a pet he had as a boy, a dog and how it died. He said he felt nothing. He also mentioned moments where he'd stare at his dad across the room and wanted to attack him (this was before he tried to end his life with a hammer). There were other things but those 2 details stick out the most. Mr Wood needs professional help.

Whats odd is Christians actually defended his video in the comments underneath it.

When you realize how much he is making off of Patreon and the fact he's a literal hate preacher, there's actual video of him eating the Quran... its really sad, that guy and his followers let hate consume them.
 






billy t

Established
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
371
I seen a video over a year ago. It was some kind of biography with David Wood, talking about how he came to Christianity and he mentioned things in his history.

He told a story about a pet he had as a boy, a dog and how it died. He said he felt nothing. He also mentioned moments where he'd stare at his dad across the room and wanted to attack him (this was before he tried to end his life with a hammer). There were other things but those 2 details stick out the most. Mr Wood needs professional help.

Whats odd is Christians actually defended his video in the comments underneath it.

When you realize how much he is making off of Patreon and the fact he's a literal hate preacher, there's actual video of him eating the Quran... its really sad, that guy and his followers let hate consume them.
He comes across as evil wallah. Something about him is just off.
 






muslimah

Rookie
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
80
@billy t
you wrote
You claim Muslims lost certain pieces of knowledge. Didn't the Messenger salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam say "I left you with two things if you hold on to them you will never go astray? The book of Allah and my Sunnah? Yet you seen to think muslims need something else. Allah mentions that the quran is a healing for the diseases of the heart so why would we need some secret Sufi knowledge to do it? Typical sufi logic. I advise you to follow quran and sunnah upon the understanding of the salaf. Anything that opposes the collective ubderstanding of the first three generations is a path to the hellfire.

1) When the prophet SAW said 'i left YOU WITH TWO THINGS' was he talking to you?
no, he was talking to those people who had witnessed his sunnah...

“O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again.

those people, that time, that place, that context..
the sunnah of the prophet SAW was for those people....a hikmah subject to contexts that don't even apply today (this isnt about the other topic, this is just a general point).

the fact you thought he was talking to you directly shows how one dimensional you are...why would i waste my time with ignorant guys like that? forget it..ill answer you here but i have you on ignore otherwise for a reason. i dont have much tolerance for takfiri people.


2) in fact all of what ive said about the 7 heavens linking them to 7 chakras is based on the hadith of the ascension of the prophet SAW.
It is through common sense that I believe in a 'metaphysical truth' because all humans share in the same nature. Doesnt matter what people believe, those are their own interpretations, but you surely believe our nature inc our metaphysical nature is the same?
so in islam there are 7 heavens..and prophets representing them...
and from that alone i could easily see that the chakra system is the same?
the 7 chakras connect with 7 lokas (heavens)...
in an earlier post i directly gave examples of at least 3 chakras and showed how it's so obvious why the prophets representing that heaven is there..

3)
you wrote
Allah mentions that the quran is a healing for the diseases of the heart so why would we need some secret Sufi knowledge to do it?
im interested in understanding the Quran.....

for example when Isa AS is called the 'Word of Allah'
that refers to the LOGOS which was a greek hellenistic philosophical concept...
so it's pretty damn funny for you to act hard here and diss sufism, when the quran itself references something that came out of greek philosophy. Thing is, the logos concept was absorbed by the greeks from persian, egyptian and HINDU philosophy.
Isa AS as the Word made flesh, is called 'the incarnation' in the Gospel...
and if you continue...

And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #46)

so the 'incarnation of the LOGOS' in the Gospel, is confirmed in the Quran..and the Gospel is without reproach...and yet you TRASH THE SAME GOSPEL.
Furthermore, the LOGOS INCARNATION is hinduism, it is the incarnation of VISHNU the universal spirit/consciousness.

had the Quran dismissed the Gospel, i'd say 'yeh all this incarnation stuff, i dont care for it'
but since the Quran confirmed the Gospel, then that led me to further study the themes within the Gospel, their philosophical origins which clearly once again goes back to hinduism and ancient egypt.


It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah surrounds all things in (His) Knowledge.
(سورة الطلاق, At-Talaaq, Chapter #65, Verse #12)

'of the earth'
Bani Adam, man, as in we are microcosms of the seven heavens...
as in the 7 chakras within us..
the sufis have the 7 lataif system but it is based on a different system of metaphysics eg Khafi and Akhfa refer to levels higher than the 7 heavens (but that's a different topic, not one id expect a 2 bit moron like you to understand).

do you want to challenge me on anything else?
you should be ashamed of yoursaelf, you and other muslims on here attacking the gospel which has divine confirmation behind it..and yet you follow pseudo hadith..and im sure you all think Mohammad was having sex with the 9 yr old bride
your stupidity only harmed islam.


@muslimah
all things are halal for us except what Allah has clearly told us is haram.
so your littleinterpretation of 'bidah' means nothing to me
for example the prophet SAW didnt practice daily taraveeh jamaat in ramadan, but Umar RA made it compulsary and he said 'this is a GOOD INNOVATION'
the reality is that the innovation hadith doesnt even quote from the prophet SAW and it also was spoken within a certain context local to those people, it wasnt a general statement.
the hikmah of the prophet SAW for a particular time, couldnt be different upon by other muslims.
when contexts change the hikmah changes..

if something is clearly not haram, how can you attack it?
innovation applied to the specific hikmah of the prophet SAW in that particular context, would have been wrong
otherwise innovation made to specific rules of islam is obv haram anyway..
so you clearly don't understand how innovation applies let alone what it means.

A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new knowledge.
(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #151)


new knowledge is not in opposition to scripture...
new knowledge only adds to our understanding of scripture finding deeper explanations.

what did the prophet SAW say on knowledge?
but apparently seeking knowledge is bidah, shirk and kufr
you wobblers take the piss. dumb people. you need to move to riyadh, the city of dajjal where all your book material is printed.
The Prophet did pray taraweeh in congregation but stopped because he didn't want it to be made obligatory upon the Muslims. After he passed away this was no longer a possibility so the Muslims reintroduced it. Bidah here was used in a linguistic sense not a shari sense.
You do understand the word "wahhabi" comes from Allah's name al-wahhab...so what makes you think you have the right to mock that name by turning it into "wobbler"?
As for all the other nonsense you were on about, you really just seem like a person who just wants to follow his own desires and no amount of refutation can cure that. You have to change what's within yourself.
 






recure

Established
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
105
Islam is regarded as a kosher religion that initiates the goyim (non-Jews) into Noahidism in contradistinction to Christianity. According to Islam's favorite Rabbi Tovia Singer: Islam is "highly regarded" in Judaism as a Noahide cult, and a Jew is allowed to go into a mosque to pray yet he is not allowed to go into a church because Christianity is "idolatry" and "filth". He claims the Islamic belief that 'Jesus' is a prophet is "not an issue", speaking of which, I will discuss the alleged 'Christian' element in the Qur'an in my next post.
Since it is quite evident that Islam is a Judaizing-Noahide religion that seeks to perpetuate the Old Testament laws, not only from its Talmudic doctrines but also its ancient history, it is now time to discuss the so-called "Christian" character of the Qur'an which will prove the same. A few New Testament people are mentioned in the Qur'an, namely 'Jesus', his mother Mary, her father 'Joachim', the 'Apostles', 'John' (the Baptist), and his father Zechariah. Also, seemingly Christian doctrines are mentioned, such as the prophethood of Jesus, the Virgin Birth, and some weird kind of "Trinity" which includes Jesus' "mother". But what does this have to do with Christianity?

Christians are allegedly mentioned in the Qur'an as "People of the Book" alongside Jews and Sabians. The fact of the matter is, however, Christians are not mentioned by name in the Qur'an at all, not even once. The word falsely translated as "Christian(s)" is نصراني (naṣrāniyy)/نصارى (naṣārā) whereas the Arabic word for Christians is مسيحي(ين) (masīḥiyy/īn). The word "nasara" is more accurately translated as "Nazarenes", and this is the case in a select few translations of the Qur'an. But traditional Christians did not refer to themselves as Nazarenes, least of all when the Qur'an was written. According to the Wikipedia: "Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 220, Against Marcion, 4:8) records that the Jews called Christians "Nazarenes" from Jesus being a man of Nazareth... Jerome too records that, in the synagogues, the word "Nazarenes" was used to describe Christians." This makes sense given that that Jews don't believe Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) and avoid using that name except as a curse, but then why would Muslims use it to mean Christians?

The Qur'an essentially employed a Hebraic word that is still used by Jews to refer to Christians, so does that mean that "nasara" is actually Christians? No: there was also a heretical Judaizing sect known to Christian writers as Nazarenes, and when we understand that they are who the Qur'an is actually referring to, then its ambiguous/confusing doctrines and rhetorical hogwash will become much clearer.
The Nazarenes were similar to the Ebionites, in that they considered themselves Jews, maintained an adherence to the Law of Moses, and used only the Aramaic Gospel of the Hebrews, rejecting all the Canonical gospels and the concept of Jesus being the Son of God which they deemed of Hellenist origin. However, unlike half of the Ebionites, they accepted the Virgin Birth.
We see in this passage from the same article that the Nazarenes were kind of like "Messianic" Jews and had identical beliefs as Muslims: that they adhered to the Law of Moses, used only one Gospel (which Muslims call the Injeel and claim is now lost), rejected the concept of the Son of God but accepted the Virgin Birth. Moreover, in the article on the so-called "Gospel of the Hebrews" (which is the same as the hypothetical "Gospel of the Nazarenes") we read the following:
Distinctive features include a Christology characterized by the belief that the Holy Spirit is Jesus' Divine Mother and a first resurrection appearance to James, the brother of Jesus, showing a high regard for James as the leader of the Jewish Christian church in Jerusalem
The significance of this is two-fold: on the one hand it is in-line with the Islamic rhetoric that promotes St. James the Just and the Jerusalem Church as a parallel "Jewish" sect vis-a-vis "Pauline Christanity". And on the other hand, it explains the Quranic verse (5:116) wherein 'Jesus' is accused by Allah of telling people to "Take me and my mother as their gods besides God", since Muslims think by "my mother" it is referring to the Virgin Mary, when it is really a Nazarene accusation against Christians of taking Son of God, and his "mother" the Holy Spirit as gods beside God the Father. And to drive the point home from Quranic exegesis, we read read in 5:86 the following:
"You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers the Jews and those who associate others with Allah; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.
The Qur'an claims that those nearest in affection to the believers (Muslims) are those who say "We are Christians", but how can that be that case when immediately preceding that, Christians are meant by "those who associate other with Allah" and are said to be "the most intense in animosity towards the believers"? Again, this contradiction is explained by the simple fact that the word translated as "Christians" is "nasara" which does not refer to traditional Christians but to the Nazarene heretics, which the Qur'an has to remind people have their own priests and monks.

It's enough to use the Qur'an itself and its--at best--disingenuous translations to expose the fickle argumentation of Muslims, but my follow-up will show from the Hadith the inescapable fact that the "Christian" substratum of the Qur'an originates from the cultural milieu of the Nazarenes.

TL;DR: The word "Christian(s)" in the Qur'an is properly translated as "Nazarene(s)" and refers not to Christians proper but a heretical sect of anti-trinitarian Messianic Jews from whom the Muslims got their theology.
 






Joined
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Messages
3,109
The Prophet did pray taraweeh in congregation but stopped because he didn't want it to be made obligatory upon the Muslims. After he passed away this was no longer a possibility so the Muslims reintroduced it. Bidah here was used in a linguistic sense not a shari sense.
You do understand the word "wahhabi" comes from Allah's name al-wahhab...so what makes you think you have the right to mock that name by turning it into "wobbler"?
As for all the other nonsense you were on about, you really just seem like a person who just wants to follow his own desires and no amount of refutation can cure that. You have to change what's within yourself.
1) the highlighted bit is just utter nonsense. You guys are very quick to bark on about "all bidah is bad" when it suits you.
the reality is that contexts matter.
Bidah only refers to changing the rules and sunnah in islam. Even then, when we talk of sunnah it is the hikmah of the prophet SAW given to particular people in a particular time according to their condition.
it isn't universal. When times and contexts change then the hikmah is different.

so if you're taking meds for headaches, even paracetamol, you're doing bidah? why dont you do the sunnah way and drink camel piss?

it doesnt apply to the sphere of knowledge, to even suggest that im doing bidah by learning about metaphysics tells me how stupid you are.

2) the FACT is Umar RA called taraveeh jamaat 'a good innovation', he made it compulsary...
BECAUSE THE CONTEXT CHANGED!!!
it was a time of peace, so according to Umar RA there was no reason why able muslim men couldnt attend.
It still contradicts what Aisha said..
but what did the prophet SAW say specifically on this? you've literally quoted aisha to pass fatwas online. stupidity on a mass scale.

3)
“If knowledge were located in the Pleiades (a constellation of stars), the Persians would surely attain it”


yet the persians were the ones who excelled in matters of metaphysics, knowledge of the Self.

yet if you actually go and study islamic persian philosophy (most of which is sufi islam), it isnt shy of integrating ideas from other religions within an islamic framework
the rule is basic, no shirk..

the funny thing is that i used to talk to a hindu guy online, who dissed islam because in his mind islam was too basic and had no knowledge of metaphysics and the topic of black magic which he said he was suffering from. in his mind 'God'/Ishvara doesnt interfere in the lower worlds, the entities that are dominant there, islam has no knowledge of.
he used to worship astral entities and try reversing black magic onto his enemies..and couldnt understand how islam would be of any help to him.

i spoke in depth to him about the chakra system and its connection to islam aswell as how it makes sense from the perspective of our metaphysical descent and ascent...and how that connects to Allah's Jalali and Jamali attributes. That is, Allah's Trancendence and Immanence, for example Allah is Al-Rahman aswell as Al-Raheem (which means He bestows Mercy onto creation) and how ultimately this reflects in aspects of our own nature. I explained how all the entities only reflect aspects of the Self and that gaining control fo the mind in light of the greater truth, would in turn bring everything 'demonic' in line. it wouldnt be able to affect him.

Connecting it also to the tree of life in kabballah and breaking down what each sephirot means...
the biggest point that influenced him was to know that a seed/intention planted would also mean turmoil when the 'soil' is turned...by God..and that after that period, the seed would have to be nourished and taken care of daily through prayer, dhikr etc. i also explained that in islam charity is a means of softening the soil meaning less suffering during the process.
the ultimate idea being the growth of the seed into a tree.
I also obv had to explain that in the physical world we only see the shadow of the fruits produced..and how the shadows differ in size for different people without truely reflecting the state and quality of the tree.
i also explained that the 'flowering streams of water' which describe paradise are symbolic of the flowing lifeforce through the chakra system which in their religion is 'kundalini'

he converted to islam
you call it bidah..in fact you would think im a satanic guy based off the above..but who do you think has conquered his demons? the guy actually married a muslim girl i knew too (canadian).

stay stupid, go move to riyadh
 






Last edited:

muslimah

Rookie
Joined
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Messages
80
1) the highlighted bit is just utter nonsense. You guys are very quick to bark on about "all bidah is bad" when it suits you.
the reality is that contexts matter.
Bidah only refers to changing the rules and sunnah in islam. Even then, when we talk of sunnah it is the hikmah of the prophet SAW given to particular people in a particular time according to their condition.
it isn't universal. When times and contexts change then the hikmah is different.

so if you're taking meds for headaches, even paracetamol, you're doing bidah? why dont you do the sunnah way and drink camel piss?

it doesnt apply to the sphere of knowledge, to even suggest that im doing bidah by learning about metaphysics tells me how stupid you are.

2) the FACT is Umar RA called taraveeh jamaat 'a good innovation', he made it compulsary...
BECAUSE THE CONTEXT CHANGED!!!
it was a time of peace, so according to Umar RA there was no reason why able muslim men couldnt attend.
It still contradicts what Aisha said..
but what did the prophet SAW say specifically on this? you've literally quoted aisha to pass fatwas online. stupidity on a mass scale.

3)
“If knowledge were located in the Pleiades (a constellation of stars), the Persians would surely attain it”


yet the persians were the ones who excelled in matters of metaphysics, knowledge of the Self.

yet if you actually go and study islamic persian philosophy (most of which is sufi islam), it isnt shy of integrating ideas from other religions within an islamic framework
the rule is basic, no shirk..

the funny thing is that i used to talk to a hindu guy online, who dissed islam because in his mind islam was too basic and had no knowledge of metaphysics and the topic of black magic which he said he was suffering from. in his mind 'God'/Ishvara doesnt interfere in the lower worlds, the entities that are dominant there, islam has no knowledge of.
he used to worship astral entities and try reversing black magic onto his enemies..and couldnt understand how islam would be of any help to him.

i spoke in depth to him about the chakra system and its connection to islam aswell as how it makes sense from the perspective of our metaphysical descent and ascent...and how that connects to Allah's Jalali and Jamali attributes. That is, Allah's Trancendence and Immanence, for example Allah is Al-Rahman aswell as Al-Raheem (which means He bestows Mercy onto creation) and how ultimately this reflects in aspects of our own nature. I explained how all the entities only reflect aspects of the Self and that gaining control fo the mind in light of the greater truth, would in turn bring everything 'demonic' in line. it wouldnt be able to affect him.

Connecting it also to the tree of life in kabballah and breaking down what each sephirot means...
the biggest point that influenced him was to know that a seed/intention planted would also mean turmoil when the 'soil' is turned...by God..and that after that period, the seed would have to be nourished and taken care of daily through prayer, dhikr etc. i also explained that in islam charity is a means of softening the soil meaning less suffering during the process.
the ultimate idea being the growth of the seed into a tree.
I also obv had to explain that in the physical world we only see the shadow of the fruits produced..and how the shadows differ in size for different people without truely reflecting the state and quality of the tree.
i also explained that the 'flowering streams of water' which describe paradise are symbolic of the flowing lifeforce through the chakra system which in their religion is 'kundalini'

he converted to islam
you call it bidah..in fact you would think im a satanic guy based off the above..but who do you think has conquered his demons? the guy actually married a muslim girl i knew too (canadian).

stay stupid, go move to riyadh
Wow changing the religion to appease the kuffar and make them more willing to accept it, sounds a lot like what Paul did with Christianity.

Also I've never passed any fatwas on these forums what are you on about. Talking about the general ruling on something isn't passing a fatwa...passing a fatwa is when someone comes to you with a specific situation and asks you to give them a personalized ruling.

And comparing worldly innovations like medicine to religious innovations like adding new beliefs that aren't found within the Qur'an or Sunnah? Stop playing games. I don't think you're worth talking to anymore.
 






Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,109
Wow changing the religion to appease the kuffar and make them more willing to accept it, sounds a lot like what Paul did with Christianity.

Also I've never passed any fatwas on these forums what are you on about. Talking about the general ruling on something isn't passing a fatwa...passing a fatwa is when someone comes to you with a specific situation and asks you to give them a personalized ruling.

And comparing worldly innovations like medicine to religious innovations like adding new beliefs that aren't found within the Qur'an or Sunnah? Stop playing games. I don't think you're worth talking to anymore.

1) when the hell did i say i changed my religion?
you're going on my shitlist. i havent got time for you dumb monkeys.

2) he said islam is a stupid religion that doesnt know or teach anything about the metaphysical like hinduism does. the problem was his experience of muslims used to be talking to dumb monkeys like you.

i went in depth and not only explained his own religion to him more in depth (because the underlying actual truth is a shared one, their interpretations are flawed) but used islamic/abrahimic concepts to show him how it really works.
once he was able to make sense of it, he accepted islam and later married a pakistani muslim girl too a few yrs later (he was indian hindu). the guy was in too deep initially and didnt know how to get out, when he insulted islam he was arguing that us guys have no idea what he's experiencing because we dont know shit.

3)
all knowledge is knowledge
doesnt matter if it's biology or metaphysics
islam doesnt place them in seperate categories at all. we're not materialists.
you have no idea wtf you're even saying you dumb monkey. time to put you on ignore so i dont have to read more of this shit.

go move to riyadh.
 






muslimah

Rookie
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
80
1) when the hell did i say i changed my religion?
you're going on my shitlist. i havent got time for you dumb monkeys.

2) he said islam is a stupid religion that doesnt know or teach anything about the metaphysical like hinduism does. the problem was his experience of muslims used to be talking to dumb monkeys like you.

i went in depth and not only explained his own religion to him more in depth (because the underlying actual truth is a shared one, their interpretations are flawed) but used islamic/abrahimic concepts to show him how it really works.
once he was able to make sense of it, he accepted islam and later married a pakistani muslim girl too a few yrs later (he was indian hindu). the guy was in too deep initially and didnt know how to get out, when he insulted islam he was arguing that us guys have no idea what he's experiencing because we dont know shit.

3)
all knowledge is knowledge
doesnt matter if it's biology or metaphysics
islam doesnt place them in seperate categories at all. we're not materialists.
you have no idea wtf you're even saying you dumb monkey. time to put you on ignore so i dont have to read more of this shit.

go move to riyadh.
1) I didn't say you changed your religion I said you were changing the religion, as in adding stuff into it.
2) Many people refuse to accept Islam until you start compromising and distort it to suit their desires. Doesn't mean you're right to do so. The ends don't justify the means.
3) Islamic theology is included in the category of things you cannot innovate in, that category being the religion. Medicine is a worldly matter and in fact with this subject specifically the prophet, peace be upon him, even encouraged us to look for cures for diseases.
I hope you can look for the cure for the diseases within your heart.
 






Joined
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Messages
3,109
Since it is quite evident that Islam is a Judaizing-Noahide religion that seeks to perpetuate the Old Testament laws, not only from its Talmudic doctrines but also its ancient history, it is now time to discuss the so-called "Christian" character of the Qur'an which will prove the same. A few New Testament people are mentioned in the Qur'an, namely 'Jesus', his mother Mary, her father 'Joachim', the 'Apostles', 'John' (the Baptist), and his father Zechariah. Also, seemingly Christian doctrines are mentioned, such as the prophethood of Jesus, the Virgin Birth, and some weird kind of "Trinity" which includes Jesus' "mother". But what does this have to do with Christianity?

Christians are allegedly mentioned in the Qur'an as "People of the Book" alongside Jews and Sabians. The fact of the matter is, however, Christians are not mentioned by name in the Qur'an at all, not even once. The word falsely translated as "Christian(s)" is نصراني (naṣrāniyy)/نصارى (naṣārā) whereas the Arabic word for Christians is مسيحي(ين) (masīḥiyy/īn). The word "nasara" is more accurately translated as "Nazarenes", and this is the case in a select few translations of the Qur'an. But traditional Christians did not refer to themselves as Nazarenes, least of all when the Qur'an was written. According to the Wikipedia: "Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 220, Against Marcion, 4:8) records that the Jews called Christians "Nazarenes" from Jesus being a man of Nazareth... Jerome too records that, in the synagogues, the word "Nazarenes" was used to describe Christians." This makes sense given that that Jews don't believe Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) and avoid using that name except as a curse, but then why would Muslims use it to mean Christians?

The Qur'an essentially employed a Hebraic word that is still used by Jews to refer to Christians, so does that mean that "nasara" is actually Christians? No: there was also a heretical Judaizing sect known to Christian writers as Nazarenes, and when we understand that they are who the Qur'an is actually referring to, then its ambiguous/confusing doctrines and rhetorical hogwash will become much clearer.

We see in this passage from the same article that the Nazarenes were kind of like "Messianic" Jews and had identical beliefs as Muslims: that they adhered to the Law of Moses, used only one Gospel (which Muslims call the Injeel and claim is now lost), rejected the concept of the Son of God but accepted the Virgin Birth. Moreover, in the article on the so-called "Gospel of the Hebrews" (which is the same as the hypothetical "Gospel of the Nazarenes") we read the following:

The significance of this is two-fold: on the one hand it is in-line with the Islamic rhetoric that promotes St. James the Just and the Jerusalem Church as a parallel "Jewish" sect vis-a-vis "Pauline Christanity". And on the other hand, it explains the Quranic verse (5:116) wherein 'Jesus' is accused by Allah of telling people to "Take me and my mother as their gods besides God", since Muslims think by "my mother" it is referring to the Virgin Mary, when it is really a Nazarene accusation against Christians of taking Son of God, and his "mother" the Holy Spirit as gods beside God the Father. And to drive the point home from Quranic exegesis, we read read in 5:86 the following:

The Qur'an claims that those nearest in affection to the believers (Muslims) are those who say "We are Christians", but how can that be that case when immediately preceding that, Christians are meant by "those who associate other with Allah" and are said to be "the most intense in animosity towards the believers"? Again, this contradiction is explained by the simple fact that the word translated as "Christians" is "nasara" which does not refer to traditional Christians but to the Nazarene heretics, which the Qur'an has to remind people have their own priests and monks.

It's enough to use the Qur'an itself and its--at best--disingenuous translations to expose the fickle argumentation of Muslims, but my follow-up will show from the Hadith the inescapable fact that the "Christian" substratum of the Qur'an originates from the cultural milieu of the Nazarenes.

TL;DR: The word "Christian(s)" in the Qur'an is properly translated as "Nazarene(s)" and refers not to Christians proper but a heretical sect of anti-trinitarian Messianic Jews from whom the Muslims got their theology.
1) the protestants accuse the catholics of worshipping Mary as 'the mother of God' and that is what the Quran alluded to.
nowhere did it say that 'this is the christian trinity'
the only thing the Quran said on the trinity was 'DON'T SAY GOD IS THREE' because such a statement doesn't have any root in the bible. Jesus never once used the word 'three' in any part of the Gospel accounts.
the underlying 'truth' within the trinity is not what the christians have understood or projected
the truth is that God is Immanent on the macrocosmic level (which is the eternal logos) and the micricosmic level (which is via the holy spirit). Yet christians reduced the macrocosmic to Jesus only. The Logos incarnated in Jesus, was made flesh in him, but it isnt limited to Jesus, the logos is ALL things in the pre-causal state. Logos is basically infinity and causation is the beginning.

2)
according to you, there's a whole different sect/religion called the Nazarenes, obv you also accept that the jews referred to the original christians as 'nazarenes' eg
Acts 24
5 “We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect

as for everything else you wrote in the nazarenes, it's a load of bollocks.
the nazarenes were christian, simple.
the only other group identified as nazarenes were a pre-christianity group, they didnt even exist by the 7th century for you to think muslims took ideas off them.

guess what? the real name of hinduism is Sanatan Dharma, but today they mostly call themselves hindu.
when we use the word 'hindu' we know who it refers to and they have no issue with it.
the 'nasara' are the christians..and there's nothing else to it.

3)
you wrote
The Qur'an claims that those nearest in affection to the believers (Muslims) are those who say "We are Christians", but how can that be that case when immediately preceding that, Christians are meant by "those who associate other with Allah" and are said to be "the most intense in animosity towards the believers"

Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #82)


let me break this down for you
unlike 99% of muslims, ill stick my neck out and say that the trinitarian doctrine whilst false, is based around an actual truth
as i said, God is Trancendent but is Immanent on the Macrocosmic and Microcosmic levels
the Logos and the Holy Spirit.

the problem is that the actual trinitarian doctrine via the creed claims the Son and Holy Spirit are co-equal in Godhead together and with the Father. THIS is totally false because we know Jesus even said the Holy spirit is not greater than the Son.
We know the Son doesnt even know when the last hour is, nor can he do anything on his own.
The Logos/Son is akin to a prism revealing the attributes of God out of which the process of causation takes place...
the Logos on it's own is eternal expression, but it doesn't have the power on it's own.

look at it this way
is there anything you can ever do that God doesn't know?
so God has known ALL things eternally. By extention since the existence of things is through God's knowledge, all things are eternal. Yet all things arent God.
'all things' is just summed up as the Logos/Image of God/Son etc. in ancient mythologies it was likened to the 'primordial ocean' and the individual spirits as 'drops'.
Whatever the case is, the underlying trintry as ive explained/understood it, referring to God and His Immanence on 2 levels..is summed up by the words
Bismillah IrRahman IrRaheem

besides if you really read up on the concept of Immanence on wiki, it says this
According to Christian theology, the transcendent God, who cannot be approached or seen in essence or being, becomes immanent primarily in the God-man Jesus the Christ, who is the incarnate Second Person of the Trinity. In Byzantine Rite theology the immanence of God is expressed as the hypostases or energies of God, who in his essence is incomprehensible and transcendent. In Catholic theology, Christ and the Holy Spirit immanently reveal themselves; God the Father only reveals himself immanently vicariously through the Son and Spirit, and the divine nature, the Godhead is wholly transcendent and unable to be comprehended.

the above, is entirely acceptable to me.
since God/The Father alone is Trancendent and the other 2 are expressions revealing God's Immanence, but not to be confused as 'God' in the true sense.

YET does the ave christian agree with me? hell no
it is 'UNLESS YOU WORSHIP JESUS, YOU CAN NEVER BE ACCEPTED, JESUS JESUS JESUS LORD GOD' etc
it is a disgusting divergence that's based entirely around ego worship because they just cannot accept that the muslims are right on this matter, so they cling onto a misinterpretation and try convincing themselves it's the actual truth.

simple, if Jesus doesnt know when the last hour is..he isnt God./ if Jesus can't do any of the miracles on his own but needs the Father to do them through him, then he isn't God.
the above quote makes perfect sense and is consistent with the NT..and even i agree with it...so what's the problem? islams problem is with the language of Christianity and it's repercussions...

prime example
Jesus himself acknowledged Psalm 110 to the jews eg that 'david referred to me as lord'
right?
but in psalm 110, 'lord' is adoni, and God is 'adonai'
so obv Jesus is 'lord' but not God. YET the christians deliberately capitalise the L, they write 'The Lord Jesus' when in reality is is 'lord Jesus'

example Romans 1:7
here's the jewish version
7 To all who are in Rome, ahuvei Hashem (beloved ones of G-d), summoned by Hashem’s kri’ah (calling) to be kadoshim (holy ones)‖unmerited Chen v’Chesed Hashem and Shalom Hashem from Elohim Avinu and Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua Adoneinu.
this is referring to the lesser 'lord'..
whereas Adonai is interchangeable with 'Hashem' 'YHWH'

the other issue is that if you do consider Jesus to be 'fully God' then a logical conclusion is that Mary is indeed the 'mother of God'
these type of small nuances within christianity are problems that did arise..and islam highlighted them very brielfly.
instead of moaning about islam's view of christianity, you should accept that the flaws are of your own making. christianity is problematic because the truth is the original language came out of a judeo-hellenised context and yet the gentiles adopted terms with zero understanding of them.

when the ave european or african throughout the last 2000 yrs was reading 'son of God' they were taking that way too literally and imagining baby Jesus.
that's just a fact.

christianity came out of advanced philosophical themes...and it wasnt for the ave layman to understand. which is why it became necessary for islam to simplify it all.


4)
you think islam is just 'returning people to the mosaic law system'
i like how you find a way to insult the law system, as if it didnt come from God.

Paul argued that the original christians were like the patriarchs. righteous by faith..
great..
YET God saw fit to later give the israelites the law. You're attacking islam for 'going backwards' basically and yet God did that to the israelites...
but we also learn through the NT that God only gave the laws of Moses to the israelites after they had lost said 'faith' in egypt.
so it makes perfect sense that the christians entered into serious errors through the false creed via Rome..

Paul argued that the law wasnt designed to conceal sin but to reveal it, so the depths of sin can be known..
all in order to reveal God's Grace.
So Jesus came to complete the law of Moses..and thus reveal God's Grace.
nice idea...that..
but how much greater is said faith if it is complete a law system on the global scale rather than just local? does that not make Jesus even greater?
it makes sense that a prophet with laws would come from gentiles similar to Moses in a time when the christians had lost the way...
it's the same pattern as before but this time gentiles are included in it.

YET even then you are ignorant of islam because in islam, we are taught that there are 3 levels of faith

Iman (belief)
Islam (perfect submission to the Will of Allah)
Ihsan (worshipping Allah 'as if you see Him').

Ihsan isnt going to be understood by some of the muslim clowns on here either. Ihsan connects with the 'sonship' idea within christianity. Islam is from the micricosmic level and ihsan is from the macrocosmic level.
This is something the sufis followed heavily...
it isnt a case of generically just imagining God in the mind...it is like Jesus said
'if your eye is single your whole body shall be full of light'
it's about eliminating all 'else than God' out of your mind until a person can only see the act of God in all things. in that state a person becomes 'transparent' and even his/her acts are really the act of God.
Ihsan is the highest stage of faith.

whereas circumcision and islam is about the struggle of the nafs.
the cruxifixion, martydom and ihsan are about the death of the nafs entirely.

if you knew islam in reality you'd know it is the complete religion. you're judging it without real familiarity. it caters to people on different levels.

And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #45)

the former is the system of islam
the latter is the system of ihsan
 






muslimah

Rookie
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
80
let me break this down for you
unlike 99% of muslims, ill stick my neck out and say that the trinitarian doctrine whilst false, is based around an actual truth
as i said, God is Trancendent but is Immanent on the Macrocosmic and Microcosmic levels
the Logos and the Holy Spirit.

the problem is that the actual trinitarian doctrine via the creed claims the Son and Holy Spirit are co-equal in Godhead together and with the Father. THIS is totally false because we know Jesus even said the Holy spirit is not greater than the Son.
We know the Son doesnt even know when the last hour is, nor can he do anything on his own.
The Logos/Son is akin to a prism revealing the attributes of God out of which the process of causation takes place...
the Logos on it's own is eternal expression, but it doesn't have the power on it's own.

look at it this way
is there anything you can ever do that God doesn't know?
so God has known ALL things eternally. By extention since the existence of things is through God's knowledge, all things are eternal. Yet all things arent God.
'all things' is just summed up as the Logos/Image of God/Son etc. in ancient mythologies it was likened to the 'primordial ocean' and the individual spirits as 'drops'.
Whatever the case is, the underlying trintry as ive explained/understood it, referring to God and His Immanence on 2 levels..is summed up by the words
Bismillah IrRahman IrRaheem

besides if you really read up on the concept of Immanence on wiki, it says this
According to Christian theology, the transcendent God, who cannot be approached or seen in essence or being, becomes immanent primarily in the God-man Jesus the Christ, who is the incarnate Second Person of the Trinity. In Byzantine Rite theology the immanence of God is expressed as the hypostases or energies of God, who in his essence is incomprehensible and transcendent. In Catholic theology, Christ and the Holy Spirit immanently reveal themselves; God the Father only reveals himself immanently vicariously through the Son and Spirit, and the divine nature, the Godhead is wholly transcendent and unable to be comprehended.

the above, is entirely acceptable to me.
since God/The Father alone is Trancendent and the other 2 are expressions revealing God's Immanence, but not to be confused as 'God' in the true sense.

WOW
Extreme sufis never fail to surprise me with the kufr they spew
 






jivevlvet

Newbie
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
9
Hey people....just thought you would like to know that its all about a MOTHER and SON - HORUS and ISIS to be exact. This info i gained from the HEART OF THE QURAN - chapter 36 surah yasin....looks like were still worshipping the Egyptian gods
huhhh
 






TempestOfTempo

Superstar
Joined
Jan 29, 2018
Messages
5,580
Who Muslims worship is crystl clear. People of other faiths or no faith can say we are going about our worship incorrectly, but there is no serious disgreement about the one tru God whom we worship. People dont have to like Muslims or our faith, but any discussion should be based in reality and the reality is... true Muslims only worship the one, true Creator.
 






Kais_1

Star
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Messages
1,495
Allah = 88

Horus = Hirim (Hiram)

Go figure... :)
88 = Allah
74 = Jesus /Lucifer/Uzzu/Al Lat - Uzzu - Manat

8874

My very exact date of birth....

what is this trying to say to me?

btw i have discovered the oldest known way of decoding numbers and deciphering them...

way before Islam..

im gonna keep this to myself though...coz none of you have been able to figure out the basics yet though.
 






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