The Jewish "question"

[TokiEl]

If the Pharisees had accepted Christ as the Messiah, during Christ's ministry or the Acts period, the nation of Israel would have accepted Him, and the New Heavens and Earth would now be about 1000 years old.

Like everyone else, the so-called Jews today must believe in Jesus Christ, in order to be saved.

Jesus paid the price for our crimes and so in order to be saved one must repent and stop sinning.

God foretold that the Jews would crucify the Messiah. And so if the Jews had accepted Jesus Christ then God would be a liar.
You see Jesus had to die and spill His blood... else who would pay the price for our crimes ?

 

[TokiEl]

For example, in MT 16-17, Christ told a man that he would have eternal life if he kept the commandments. That, of course, is not truth for the Gentile today.

Yes you need to obey the commandments if you entertain any hope of eternal life.

 

[cfowen]

Jesus paid the price for our crimes and so in order to be saved one must repent and stop sinning.

God foretold that the Jews would crucify the Messiah. And so if the Jews had accepted Jesus Christ then God would be a liar.
You see Jesus had to die and spill His blood... else who would pay the price for our crimes ?

Repent means to change your mind, period. Stopping sinning is a work and, according to Eph 2:8-9, you can't work for your salvation.. Of course, you should stop sinning as much as possible, but if you believe in Paul's gospel of 1Cor 15:1-4 and don't attempt to stop sinning, you're still saved. Your rewards might be nil, but you're saved.

 

[TokiEl]

Repent means to change your mind, period. Stopping sinning is a work and, according to Eph 2:8-9, you can't work for your salvation.. Of course, you should stop sinning as much as possible, but if you believe in Paul's gospel of 1Cor 15:1-4 and don't attempt to stop sinning, you're still saved. Your rewards might be nil, but you're saved.

Simply believing in Jesus will not save anybody.

One must commit to Him and do what He commands.


John 14 15 "If you love Me, obey My commandments."

 

[cfowen]

Yes you need to obey the commandments if you entertain any hope of eternal life.

Wrong as wrong can be. Here is absolute proof.

The 10 Commandments were part of God's first Covenant with Israel. They were the rules that governed the covenant relationship between God and Israel. In Rom 9:4, Paul, the only apostle to us Gentiles, made this statement about what Israel had and the Gentiles didn't have - "Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;" According to this truth, only Israel had any part in either the Old Covenant or the New Covenant. Gentiles had no part in either one. Since the 10 Commandments are part of the Old Covenant, that means that the 10 Commandments applied ONLY to Israel. Also, Rom 9:4 says that only Israel has any part in the promises. That means that the Gentiles have no part in the promised Kingdom of Heaven.

You need to put more time into studying your Bible.

 

[TokiEl]

Wrong as wrong can be. Here is absolute proof.

The 10 Commandments were part of God's first Covenant with Israel. They were the rules that governed the covenant relationship between God and Israel. In Rom 9:4, Paul, the only apostle to us Gentiles, made this statement about what Israel had and the Gentiles didn't have - "Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;" According to this truth, only Israel had any part in either the Old Covenant or the New Covenant. Gentiles had no part in either one. Since the 10 Commandments are part of the Old Covenant, that means that the 10 Commandments applied ONLY to Israel. Also, Rom 9:4 says that only Israel has any part in the promises. That means that the Gentiles have no part in the promised Kingdom of Heaven.

You need to put more time into studying your Bible.

Actually Rom 9:4 is about Paul lamenting for his people who have been blinded by God and so cannot see who Jesus is.


Luke 18 18"Then a certain ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

19“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. 20You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and mother.’"


End of discussion.

 

[cfowen]

Simply believing in Jesus will not save anybody.

One must commit to Him and do what He commands.


John 14 15 "If you love Me, obey My commandments."

What Christ commanded of Israel during His earthly ministry has absolutely nothing to do with you or Me or any other Gentile.

I quit with you. You're too weak in your Bible knowledge and too wrongly indoctrinated and stubborn to know it. I do pray that you'll stop being so dumb concerning scripture. There's lots of better things out there that you're missing out on because of your reliance on Fundamentalism, a sect only slightly closer to the truth than Catholicism.

Actually Rom 9:4 is about Paul lamenting for his people who have been blinded by God and so cannot see who Jesus is.


Luke 18 18"Then a certain ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

19“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. 20You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and mother.’"


End of discussion.

 

[TokiEl]

What Christ commanded of Israel during His earthly ministry has absolutely nothing to do with you or Me or any other Gentile.

I quit with you. You're too weak in your Bible knowledge and too wrongly indoctrinated and stubborn to know it. I do pray that you'll stop being so dumb concerning scripture. There's lots of better things out there that you're missing out on because of your reliance on Fundamentalism, a sect only slightly closer to the truth than Catholicism.

You ought to quit sprouting bullshite and take up manual labour.

 

[Serveto]

I quit with you [TokiEl]. You're too weak in your Bible knowledge ...

You ought to quit sprouting bullshite and take up manual labour.

King David to the psalter, a song, a song (in Hebrew, no less, with full respect to the thread's title) ...

"Behold how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity."

​

 

[KoncreteMind]

else who would pay the price for our crimes ?

Maybe the same person(s) that used to pay the price for their own sins in the OT:

Deuteronomy 24:16
16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.

 

[TokiEl]

Maybe the same person(s) that used to pay the price for their own sins in the OT:

Deuteronomy 24:16
16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.

Death by capital punishment does not confer eternal life.

Remember the criminal on the cross beside Jesus Christ ? He repented of his crimes and asked Jesus to remember him.

And that was enough. Instant eternal life.

 

[KoncreteMind]

Death by capital punishment does not confer eternal life.

You said "who else would pay for our crimes" and God says YOU according to the prophets. Theres nothing in the OT separating "capital punishment" and "eternal life". God gives the law to show people their sin and says if they sin, its on them. Not their parents, brother, or innocent "Messiah". Take it as you will....

Remember the criminal on the cross beside Jesus Christ ? He repented of his crimes and asked Jesus to remember him.

And that was enough. Instant eternal life.

Yea that "get out of jail free" card type stuff. The OT doesnt really support that in my view...

 

[TokiEl]

You said "who else would pay for our crimes" and God says YOU according to the prophets. Theres nothing in the OT separating "capital punishment" and "eternal life". God gives the law to show people their sin and says if they sin, its on them. Not their parents, brother, or innocent "Messiah". Take it as you will....



Yea that "get out of jail free" card type stuff. The OT doesnt really support that in my view...

Look what we hope for is eternal life in the world to come.

The OT supports repentance of sins as in stop sinning. And God would provide His only begotten Son to atone for sins.
If God did not provide this substitute sacrifice then no amount of repentance could save sinners.

They would end up in hell together with the devil and his angels.

God had to pay the price for our crimes or criminals would be lost forever. Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand !

 

[KoncreteMind]

The OT supports repentance of sins as in stop sinning. And God would provide His only begotten Son to atone for sins.
If God did not provide this substitute sacrifice then no amount of repentance could save sinners.

I agree that the OT supports that. But in the OT, God doesnt say anything about providing "His Son" as a human sacrifice to atone for sin. Then the NT comes along and introduces these new concepts. If that was God's plan all along, why wouldnt He have said it plainly in the OT as I assume you'd claim He did in the NT?

 

[TokiEl]

I agree that the OT supports that. But in the OT, God doesnt say anything about providing "His Son" as a human sacrifice to atone for sin. Then the NT comes along and introduces these new concepts. If that was God's plan all along, why wouldnt He have said it plainly in the OT as I assume you'd claim He did in the NT?

God hints to this substitute sacrifice in the Binding of Isaac in Genesis 22. And in Isaiah 53 as well.

So as far as i can see God said it pretty plainly in the OT what Jesus Christ confirmed in the NT.

 

[Helioform]

What the Alt-Right Gets Wrong About Jews

http://quillette.com/2018/03/15/alt-right-gets-wrong-jews/

 

[Helioform]

Judaism as a Group Evolutionary Strategy
A Critical Analysis of Kevin MacDonald’s Theory

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12110-018-9310-x/fulltext.html

 

[KoncreteMind]

God hints to this substitute sacrifice in the Binding of Isaac in Genesis 22. And in Isaiah 53 as well.

So as far as i can see God said it pretty plainly in the OT what Jesus Christ confirmed in the NT.

There's a difference between hinting and stating plainly imo. The NT states plainly what the writers claim was Gods plan all along. The chapters you're referring do not.

 

[TokiEl]

There's a difference between hinting and stating plainly imo. The NT states plainly what the writers claim was Gods plan all along. The chapters you're referring do not.

I disagree. They are plain enough.

 

[KoncreteMind]

I disagree. They are plain enough.

If they're plain enough then what in Genesis 22 shows that what's occurring is pretense for something that would happen later?