The Jewish "question"

Helioform

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I didnt read the site no. I did read a lot of the link and its simply shilling like you seem to be. Now the argument is that Jews were forced into positions of power to where they could lend NATIONS money? Where did the money they used to lend to nations come from and how does being ostracized force people into being lenders of nations anyways? Why would a nation ostracize a group of people then turn around and give them power to print the same nations currency? And according to you or the link, the basis of all this happening is their "intelligence". Theres so many questions but not enough answers

From the outside looking in, and no offense, it just looks like you're shilling against certain conspiracies. But it is what it is...
I see you have totally ignored my comment on the Templars. As for the rest, the site explains it rather well:

"Jews in Europe were officially excluded from “common” occupations such as agriculture from 800-1700 A.D. Indeed, they were usually not allowed to own land. The restrictions forced Ashkenazim for 900 years into urban vocations that were cognitively more demanding, such as trade, bookkeeping, commerce, sales, and investment. The frequent Christian prohibition against charging of interest in money lending - prohibited as “usury” – assisted in opening up financial banking occupations for Jews. Historical records reveal that 80% of the Jews in Roussilon, southern France, in 1270 were money-lenders.

Later, after they were evicted from Western Europe, Ashkenazim were welcomed in Poland as urban investors and initiators of trade who could help modernize the nation. They were also in great demand in middle management positions because they had mathematic and business administration skills.

Ashkenazim who weren’t mathematically and verbally adept enough to succeed in these “white collar” jobs drifted away from Judaism—low IQs were pushed out. Conversely, the most successful merchants and number crunchers raised larger families, passing on an increasing percentage of algebraic brains."

And I am not shilling - I used to somewhat believe in the "Jewish Banker Conspiracy" myself a while ago, but I wisened up.
 
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I didn't address your templars point because it would only lead to me derailing the thread by pointing out that during time periods mentioned in this thread the "modern" European was not ruling over Europe. But anyways you say:


"I used to somewhat believe in the "Jewish Banker Conspiracy" myself a while ago, but I wisened up."

So what made you wisen up? And I mean after you seen (I'm assuming) the hand the roths had in creating the nation state of Israel or funding both sides of a Napoleon war if we go further back in time?
 

TokiEl

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I didn't address your templars point because it would only lead to me derailing the thread by pointing out that during time periods mentioned in this thread the "modern" European was not ruling over Europe. But anyways you say:


"I used to somewhat believe in the "Jewish Banker Conspiracy" myself a while ago, but I wisened up."

So what made you wisen up? And I mean after you seen (I'm assuming) the hand the roths had in creating the nation state of Israel or funding both sides of a Napoleon war if we go further back in time?

If the king did not like his bankier jew then he would not live long in the king's land.

The royals have always ruled the nations.
 

Helioform

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So what made you wisen up? And I mean after you seen (I'm assuming) the hand the roths had in creating the nation state of Israel or funding both sides of a Napoleon war if we go further back in time?
After I started looking into secret societies such as Freemasonry. I have noticed that a lot of influential freemasons were rabidly anti-semitic. A lot of theosophists (closet freemasons) actually believe that Jews are some kind of parasitic race that needs to be exterminated. These same people backed Hitler and were instrumental in the founding of the UN. The Rothschilds do not have the best interests of common Jews in mind. In fact according to my research, they worship the Devil (One of them was photographed with a Goat head necklace, which to them means exactly that - the Devil) and are not real Jews. Other people like Fritz Springmeier have uncovered the same thing. But continue seeing Jews as the "enemy" because that is exactly what they want.
 
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If the king did not like his bankier jew then he would not live long in the king's land.

The royals have always ruled the nations.
Imo the pope has more power than the royals but that's besides the point.

And since bankers are in control of the printing of the currency, I'd also say in modern times they have more power than the royals. Thatd be a guess though. Things going back to the pope seems to be supported by history
 
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After I started looking into secret societies such as Freemasonry. I have noticed that a lot of influential freemasons were rabidly anti-semitic. A lot of theosophists (closet freemasons) actually believe that Jews are some kind of parasitic race that needs to be exterminated. These same people backed Hitler and were instrumental in the founding of the UN. The Rothschilds do not have the best interests of common Jews in mind. In fact according to my research, they worship the Devil (One of them was photographed with a Goat head necklace, which to them means exactly that - the Devil) and are not real Jews. Other people like Fritz Springmeier have uncovered the same thing. But continue seeing Jews as the "enemy" because that is exactly what they want.
The "Jewish banker conspiracy" is based upon people like the roths not the "common Jew". Whether you see them as Jewish or not isn't relevant (I don't either). The point is that there are bankers claiming to be Jews affecting world affairs. Your link essentially says they go to that position because they are smarter than everyone else
 

Helioform

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The "Jewish banker conspiracy" is based upon people like the roths not the "common Jew". Whether you see them as Jewish or not isn't relevant (I don't either). The point is that there are bankers claiming to be Jews affecting world affairs. Your link essentially says they go to that position because they are smarter than everyone else
That is not true. I thought it was clear with the title of my thread that I was addressing the somewhat increasingly popular belief that ALL Jews conspire to get into positions of power just for the sake of dominating non-Jews.
 

TokiEl

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Imo the pope has more power than the royals but that's besides the point.

And since bankers are in control of the printing of the currency, I'd also say in modern times they have more power than the royals. Thatd be a guess though. Things going back to the pope seems to be supported by history

One who commands armies and intelligence agencies has the most power.

Remember royals have ruled the nations for centuries and they are still the power behind the political party system. Why political parties ? So people would think they had a say in the nation's policies.

Nobody is more in bondage than those who think they are free.
 
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That is not true. I thought it was clear with the title of my thread that I was addressing the somewhat increasingly popular belief that ALL Jews conspire to get into positions of power just for the sake of dominating non-Jews.
Its your thread so I'm going to let you take it in the direction you want to but nah. Most people aren't saying that the common Jew around the corner works his way up to being a banker that lends countries money. They just point out that a lot of the bankers (Roths being an example) that affect world affairs claim to be Jews. That's the conspiracy that is spread around. If you've heard other things being said and rather direct it at the few that say it, I'll leave you to it

One who commands armies and intelligence agencies has the most power.

Remember royals have ruled the nations for centuries and they are still the power behind the political party system. Why political parties ? So people would think they had a say in the nation's policies.

Nobody is more in bondage than those who think they are free.
Well I mean who is to say that its not the pope who commands the royals who command the armies/intelligence agencies? History shows that royals at one time bowed to the pope's discretion.

At the end of the day though The balance of power amongst them is speculation imo, including my thoughts on it being the pope.
 

Helioform

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Most people aren't saying that the common Jew around the corner works his way up to being a banker that lends countries money. They just point out that a lot of the bankers (Roths being an example) that affect world affairs claim to be Jews.
Not most people no, but I would venture to say that most conspiracy theorists do believe that. It's also a common white supremacist belief, mainly of the Neo Nazi type.
 

Illuminized

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Their apparent intellectual superiority comes from tradition, analysis of human mentality, and a history of experiences and persecutions. Same reason why the Catholic Church has held sway over millions of adherents. It's not an innate development, it's a self-preservative measure. Most people have forgotten why they carry out their rites. Whether they call themselves Christian or pagan, it's pretty much the same situation. Only the Jews have managed to stay true to their cults, everything they do is founded on memory of their time in Egypt.
 
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Illuminized

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After I started looking into secret societies such as Freemasonry. I have noticed that a lot of influential freemasons were rabidly anti-semitic. A lot of theosophists (closet freemasons) actually believe that Jews are some kind of parasitic race that needs to be exterminated. These same people backed Hitler and were instrumental in the founding of the UN. The Rothschilds do not have the best interests of common Jews in mind. In fact according to my research, they worship the Devil (One of them was photographed with a Goat head necklace, which to them means exactly that - the Devil) and are not real Jews. Other people like Fritz Springmeier have uncovered the same thing. But continue seeing Jews as the "enemy" because that is exactly what they want.
The Freemasons are "anti-Semitic" insofar as they have studied the origins of the Jewish people more closely than the average Christian or atheist. But they are actually very amiable towards Jews, all too willing to give them a share in the mysteries of their pagan neighbors and are more of an enlightenment type in their solution to the Jewish question (according to them, the Jews can be saved through education).

The theosophists should not be confused for Freemasons. They brought their own cult to ruin by recklessly publicizing knowledge, sometimes erroneous knowledge, and making proselytes of ignorant peoples, whereas the Freemasons have remained silent about their core beliefs. The theosophists did not directly influence Hitler (neither did the Ariosophists) and they believe that the Jews are just another race in the common development of humanity. Hardly genocidal.

IIRC the Rothschilds reassured Israel that they were committed. Rothschild has boasted about his contributions to the Balfour Declaration and the creation of Israel.
 
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cfowen

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Most of the present day so-called Jews are not descendants of Jacob, Israel. As I understand, most are Khazarian. However, the thing that really bothers me is that most are Talmudic and, therefore, follow the traditions of man, a practice condemned by Jesus Christ. This definitely does make God's Word of none effect. I recently saw a video where Talmudic rabbis were asked about the Torah and, to a man, they all said that the Torah wasn't true, but was nothing but fables and parables - the true word to them was the Talmud. So, are they fake, or not?

Also, what no one seems to see, is that, in Acts 28:28, Israel became Lo Ammi, not God's people, and the Salvation of God was taken from them and given to the Gentiles. Israel was given up by God, temporarily, because they had failed to repent and accept, as a nation, Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah. Every effort was made to get them to repent: The Gifts of the Spirit, whose only purpose was to provide power for witnessing to Israel; Bringing in Gentiles to make Israel envious, etc. The final hammer fell on Israel when the temple was destroyed in 70AD. Acts started in 30AD, so Israel was given their traditional 40 year trial period (30AD-70AD) to repent and it didn't happen. Israel can't keep the law, which includes animal sacrifices, without a temple. Since 70AD, Israel hasn't existed as the Chosen People. We are now in the Times of the Gentiles and everyone, including those that call themselves Jews, are Gentiles and the belief in Jesus Christ is required of all for salvation. We Gentiles are now the chosen people according to Eph 1:4. When the Times of the Gentiles are completed, all Israel will be put in the land and their tribulation (Jacob's Trouble) will start. Search and See.
 

Helioform

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However, the thing that really bothers me is that most are Talmudic and, therefore, follow the traditions of man, a practice condemned by Jesus Christ. This definitely does make God's Word of none effect. I recently saw a video where Talmudic rabbis were asked about the Torah and, to a man, they all said that the Torah wasn't true, but was nothing but fables and parables - the true word to them was the Talmud. So, are they fake, or not?
It's hard to find the percentage of Jews who follow the Talmud. All there is to know is that the Talmud is not a book of laws by itself but more a set of arguments that are being brought forward and then contradicted:

Do Jews follow the Torah or the Talmud?:

"A “well-known” aphorism of R. Saadia Gaon (see: Saadia Gaon - Wikipedia) states (I paraphrase): “our people are a nation only on account of our two Torahs (authoritative teachings).”
He referred to
1 - the “written Torah” (=”the five Books of Moses” = Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy = the first five books of “the Jewish Bible” = the books that tell the story of the Children of Israel from before the time of Abraham until Moses’ death on the verge of the crossing of the Children of Israel over the Jordan River into “the Land of Canaan”), and to

2 - the “Oral Torah” that consisted of the explanation, the details, the fine points, etc. of the written Torah, and, later, rabbinic enactments and prohibitions, customs, etc.. The Oral Torah was recorded in the Talmud between the first and sixth centuries of the common era. It is more authoritative than what might seem to anyone to be “the plain meaning” of the original Hebrew text of the written Torah.
So the answer to the question is “both”, with an emphasis on Talmud.

However, the Talmud is characterized by lots and lots of discussion, challenges, questions, contradictions, argumentation - and the mention of views that may be of an extreme nature (and that were most often ultimately rejected) or that applied only under very specific circumstances, so that one really could not learn from them what it is that Jewish law really states. Therefore, it is not really possible for a Jew to “follow the Talmud”, for it is a great challenge to know just what it is of the huge variety of things in the Talmud that he is expected “to follow”.
Therefore, since the time the Talmud was composed, many works of Jewish law have been written to summarize, to discuss, to analyze, and to apply - and then to re-summarize, re-discuss, re-analyze, and to re-apply, again and again, that which was written in the Talmud in light of the conclusions drawn from it by the greatest authoritative Jewish scholars in every place and period, and in light of the living developments of life in every place and period. It has been and continues to be a complex, intricate process, dynamic, living and breathing!
Therefore, the real answer is “neither”. Jews follow what their teachers teach them - that is, teachers who have learned from their teachers, in an unending chain going way back in time, how to live a balanced, healthy, ethical, moral, decent human life which includes observance of the commandments concerning the Sabbath and the Holy days, family life, kosher food, Jewish beliefs, prayer, study, dress, and more. Those teachers have to be scholars themselves, who are thoroughly versed in Jewish rabbinic texts that have been written over the course of centuries and continue to be written to this very day, who are authorized by their teachers to have studied Jewish law and tradition, and have to be accepted by Jews and Jewish communities as being fit for communal leadership."

https://www.quora.com/Do-Jews-follow-the-Talmud-or-the-Torah-or-both
 

cfowen

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My problems have always been with the Talmudists, which make up the bulk of the so-called Jews today. I heard some interviewed recently and they all treated the Torah as parables. Of course, the Talmud is 100% oral tradition. That's even more than the Catholics. The Catholics lie and say the whole Bible comes from oral traditions which, of course, none of it does, not one jot or tittle. I would think the Talmudists would be in the same position as the Pharisees during Christ's day, which wasn't a good position. If the Pharisees had accepted Christ as the Messiah, during Christ's ministry or the Acts period, the nation of Israel would have accepted Him, and the New Heavens and Earth would now be about 1000 years old. Christ told Israel that they wouldn't see Him again until they accepted Him. Mt 23:39 and several other places. That's why the entire purpose of ACTS was to convince Israel, as a nation, to convert. Even Paul, THE apostle to the Gentiles, went to the Jews first. The purpose certainly wasn't start a Church.

However, all this is moot since the salvation of God was taken from Israel and given to the Gentiles in Ac28:28. In God's eyes, everyone is equal today. Like everyone else, the so-called Jews today must believe in Jesus Christ, in order to be saved. There is no Israel of God today. There will be soon, though, when ALL of Israel, past and present, MUST go through their time of trouble, their tribulation.
 
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TMT

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That it's even asked here proves that this site and these so called theories are nothing more than white power propaganda.
 

cfowen

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That it's even asked here proves that this site and these so called theories are nothing more than white power propaganda.
That is total BS but, whether they are or aren't is unimportant. The important thing is that since 70AD, Israel has not been God's people

(1) Because of their unbelief in Jesus Christ, they became Loammi, not my people (Hos 1:9) in Acts 28:28
(2) In Ac28:28, the salvation of God was taken from them and given to the Gentiles.
(3) Israel can't be God's people unless they keep the law. With no temple, it is impossible to keep the law.
(4) Before the end of Acts, Paul's writings spoke much about Israel. His post-Acts books don't mention Israel, except to say we are both on equal grounds - to get saved, they must believe in Jesus Christ, just like us.
(5) If they treat the Talmud as their main or only source of doctrine, which I totally believe they do, I question that their standing before God is no better that that of the Pharisees. The Talmud is purely Satanic, on the same level as the Koran.
(6) Except for the remnant that is always present, It seems that the fake nation of Israel is mainly composed of those that say they are Jews but are not. In God's eyes, they are no different than any Gentile unbeliever. Their only salvation is to believe in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
(7) Since prophecy always (search and see) involves Israel and since there Is no Israel today, there has been no prophecy fulfilled since the destruction of the temple in 70AD. That means that the formation of Israel in 1948 was purely man-made (or NWO-made) and had nothing to do with prophecy. When it's time, God will fill the land with real Israel. He doesn't need help from a bunch of clowns trying to "bring in the Kingdom" under their own power, before the time is ripe.
 
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