The Biblical Case for a “Pre-Tribulation” Rapture

[floss]

I believe God wanted to teach the nations something of Himself via the Jews. It seems at least plausible that He would use them to communicate the Gospel of the Kingdom to the world during the Tribulation. A good many people who scorn the Gospel right now way get the shock of their lives after the Rapture. It’s my hope that many will realise their mistake, repent and defy the AC system.

How many people outside of Christianity actually know/heard of the rapture though. If all saved Christians get raptured now, will anyone really know/comprehend what happened?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

How many people outside of Christianity actually know/heard of the rapture though. If all saved Christians get raptured now, will anyone really know/comprehend what happened?

A good question! In addition to the 144000 we will have the two witnesses in Jerusalem (making headlines) and even an angel declaring the gospel of the kingdom in addition to the Tribulation saints. It seems that despite this many will choose darkness and destruction rather than repentance and likely martyrdom.

 

[TokiEl]

So you're saying Christians are going through the tribulation and those that made it alive will be caught up with the Lord in the air?

1 Thess 4 15 By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.



Rev 20 4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.




The dead in Christ will rise first and in the first resurrection are christians who will be killed for refusing the mark of the beast. So we must expect tribulations right.

 

[Thunderian]

How many people outside of Christianity actually know/heard of the rapture though. If all saved Christians get raptured now, will anyone really know/comprehend what happened?

No one will be able to explain what happened, but those crazy stories about a Christian rapture would sure come in handy, wouldn’t they?

2 Thessalonians 2:11 says that God will send a delusion on the unbelievers who remain on the earth after the rapture. I don’t think anyone will worry about explaining or comprehending the rapture. I don’t think they’re going to remember it.

 

[Lisa]

How many people outside of Christianity actually know/heard of the rapture though. If all saved Christians get raptured now, will anyone really know/comprehend what happened?

Who would do this?

Mark‬ ‭13:9
You will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them.
‭‭​

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Who would do this?

Mark‬ ‭13:9
You will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them.
‭‭​

When the word “you” is used here it is directed at Jewish believers.

It’s an interesting one as it has had and will have multiple fulfilments.

• The disciples did stand before kings and governors.
• Throughout history other believers have done the same.
• One day a particular group will stand before representatives of the AC system. They will do so because they believe - they may also be Jews.
• Whether the Church will be represented in this group or if it will be believers who came to faith after the Rapture is not clear in this context so wider study is needed.

 

[Lisa]

When the word “you” is used here it is directed at Jewish believers.

It’s an interesting one as it has had and will have multiple fulfilments.

• The disciples did stand before kings and governors.
• Throughout history other believers have done the same.
• One day a particular group will stand before representatives of the AC system. They will do so because they believe - they may also be Jews.
• Whether the Church will be represented in this group or if it will be believers who came to faith after the Rapture is not clear in this context so wider study is needed.

Directed at Jewish believers who read the Bible?

Who’s going to come to faith after the rapture? That’s a myth from the pre trib position. God takes out people who have been Christians to make baby Christians go before governors and kings and be beheaded while we are all safely with Him? No that’s not how it works. Not when we are told that we won’t go before the anti is revealed and he doesn’t get revealed until the middle of the tribulation.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Who’s going to come to faith after the rapture? That’s a myth from the pre trib position.

I wonder...

if you had been a skeptic in a Christian family who were pre trib and one morning you were home alone with their book collection, might it make even the most hardened unbeliever reconsider?

I hope so anyway, and it would seem like God’s Grace at a time of judgement. Why would God allow a 7 year trib anyway? To have plenty of time to exact revenge? He could judge in an instant. Many have noticed the parallels between the Trib and the plagues of Egypt. After each one, there was opportunity to repent.

 

[Lisa]

I wonder...

if you had been a skeptic in a Christian family who were pre trib and one morning you were home alone with their book collection, might it make even the most hardened unbeliever reconsider?

I hope so anyway, and it would seem like God’s Grace at a time of judgement. Why would God allow a 7 year trib anyway? To have plenty of time to exact revenge? He could judge in an instant. Many have noticed the parallels between the Trib and the plagues of Egypt. After each one, there was opportunity to repent.

It doesn’t look like people are gonna repent though. They will however turn in family members to have them killed.

Mark‬ ‭13:11-13‬ ‭
When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Mark 13:11-13 When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. Brother w | New American Standard Bible (NASB) | Download The Bible App Now

When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. Brother w

www.bible.com

Which goes along with Jesus telling us that our enemies will be members of our own families..

Matthew‬ ‭10:35-36‬ ‭
For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

Matthew 10:35-36 For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD. | New American Standard Bible (NASB) | Download The Bible App Now

For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

www.bible.com

If they didn’t believe you before they aren’t gonna read your book collection after..and again you aren’t popping off before the going it gets tough..

Revelation‬ ‭6:9-11‬ ‭
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

Revelation 6:9-11 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried | New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) | Download The Bible App Now

When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried

www.bible.com

​

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

It doesn’t look like people are gonna repent though. They will however turn in family members to have them killed.

Mark‬ ‭13:11-13‬ ‭
When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Mark 13:11-13 When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. Brother w | New American Standard Bible (NASB) | Download The Bible App Now

When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit. Brother w

www.bible.com

Which goes along with Jesus telling us that our enemies will be members of our own families..

Matthew‬ ‭10:35-36‬ ‭
For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

Matthew 10:35-36 For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD. | New American Standard Bible (NASB) | Download The Bible App Now

For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

www.bible.com

If they didn’t believe you before they aren’t gonna read your book collection after..and again you aren’t popping off before the going it gets tough..

Revelation‬ ‭6:9-11‬ ‭
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

Revelation 6:9-11 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried | New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) | Download The Bible App Now

When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried

www.bible.com

​

I think we both agree that genuine believers will be in the earth during the Tribulation. The pre trib view distinguishes between the “Church” which is not mentioned after “come up hither” in a “voice like a trumpet” after the Laodocean Church is described and the “saints” and the “elect” of subsequent chapters, whereas views that place the Church in the tribulation combine these groups and suggest that such distinctions are splitting hairs.

 

[Thunderian]

@Lisa, do you believe that anyone will be able to get saved after the Rapture?

 

[Lisa]

@Lisa, do you believe that anyone will be able to get saved after the Rapture?

No they won’t..

Revelation‬ ‭9:21‬ ‭
And they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.
‭‭
Revelation‬ ‭16:9‬ ‭
Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.
‭‭
Revelation‬ ‭16:10-11‬ ‭
Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues because of pain, and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.”
‭‭
Revelation‬ ‭14:9-11‬ ‭
Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation‬ ‭19:19‬ ‭
And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.


But there’s always hope before the wrath of God..which is why God sends us Christians out.

 

[Lisa]

I think we both agree that genuine believers will be in the earth during the Tribulation. The pre trib view distinguishes between the “Church” which is not mentioned after “come up hither” in a “voice like a trumpet” after the Laodocean Church is described and the “saints” and the “elect” of subsequent chapters, whereas views that place the Church in the tribulation combine these groups and suggest that such distinctions are splitting hairs.

What do you mean the church is not mentioned after come up here? You’re talking about John being summoned to heaven..that’s not the church..it was just John.

Even when the different churches are mentioned..Jesus usually warns them to overcome..and then usually talks about how they’ll join Him in the kingdom if they do....that also links with 2 Thessalonians 2:3 where Jesus doesn’t come until after the anti is revealed.

 

[Thunderian]

No they won’t..

Who populates the earth during the Millennium?

 

[Lisa]

Who populates the earth during the Millennium?

The Jews..and anyone not killed in the war.

 

[Thunderian]

anyone not killed in the war.

Who would be left after a war that destroys all unbelievers?

Revelation 19:​

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

[Lisa]

Who would be left after a war that destroys all unbelievers?

​

Revelation 19:​

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Some survive..and He rules them with a rod of iron..

Revelation‬ ‭19:15‬ ‭
From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

Revelation 19:15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. | New American Standard Bible (NASB) | Download The Bible App Now

From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

www.bible.com

 

[Thunderian]

Some survive..and He rules them with a rod of iron..

Revelation‬ ‭19:15‬ ‭
From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

Revelation 19:15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. | New American Standard Bible (NASB) | Download The Bible App Now

From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

www.bible.com

But it says that those remaining are slain. It doesn’t say some of them or even most of them. It says remnant, which means the entirety of what is left over.

 

[Lisa]

But it says that those remaining are slain. It doesn’t say some of them or even most of them. It says remnant, which means the entirety of what is left over.

V. 15 says that He strikes down the nations and He will rule them with a rod of iron. So..someone is alive and will be ruled by Jesus.

 

[Thunderian]

V. 15 says that He strikes down the nations and He will rule them with a rod of iron. So..someone is alive and will be ruled by Jesus.

Yes, believers that remain alive when Armageddon is over. The Jewish ones will finally possess the land that was promised, and the living gentiles will repopulate the rest of the nations. Jesus Christ will rule over them all.