Suicide & Euthanasia

Todd

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More than 7 billion people alive? I don’t think so.

You’re trying to tell me that I’m wrong that most people want to live, I’m telling you that most people do because otherwise there would be mass suicides.
In our line of business my wife and I see plenty of people suffering and wishing it would just end. In many cases the client wants it to end and it is only the desires of the family that keep the person alive longer than they want.

It's easy to say most people want to live when they have something to live for. Problem is at the end of your life when you are weak and frail and you are ready to go, family members often take over and have just as much or more say in what happens to you. (i.e. staying at home versus nursing care, level of medical intervention, etc...) Doesn't matter what kind of living will documentation you have, unless somebody on your side is willing to fight in court, the family can still make decisions contrary to your previous stated wishes, if you are not considered able to clearly articulate your wishes.
 






justjess

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More than 7 billion people alive? I don’t think so.

You’re trying to tell me that I’m wrong that most people want to live, I’m telling you that most people do because otherwise there would be mass suicides.
I don’t know where I said most people don’t want to live, I contested your assumption that most people when faced with terminal illness or a disease destroying their life that will never be fixed want to live. You don’t know what each and every one of them is thinking or wants. You can’t. You aren’t god. Assuming anything under those conditions is presumptuous at best.

I know many people who chose to stop pursuing futile treatment and just let nature take its course. I know my own father consented to treatment until the very end only to appease my mom. I know my grandma voluntarily told them to take her off all supports entirely conscience and lucid. I know I myself chose not to take medications that destroy my short term quality of life in hopes it might improve my long term. On the other hand my 90 year old grandpa elected to have a hip replacement, despite it possibly killing him because quality of life was more important to him then length, elective treatment for the same principle instead of declining treatment for it. My husbands grandma tried to decline heart surgery for months until finally caving to pressure from her daughters.

There are so many different shades of grey and you making a statement of MOST anything is kinda unbelievable.

We have a lot of suicides in this country and world wide. It doesn’t have to be BILLIONS to be statistically relevant. The suicide rate increases unabated yearly with no end in sight. I’d even argue a large part of the addiction crisis in this country stems from the same thing or atleast something similar.

None of which is relevant to the question of whether a severely ill or terminally ill person should be able to end their own life if they want to. They should.

The case you posted is surprising as mental illness doesn’t usually qualify for obvious reasons and until I have the time to look into it more I’m unwilling to comment on that specifically further.
 






Lisa

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In our line of business my wife and I see plenty of people suffering and wishing it would just end. In many cases the client wants it to end and it is only the desires of the family that keep the person alive longer than they want.

It's easy to say most people want to live when they have something to live for. Problem is at the end of your life when you are weak and frail and you are ready to go, family members often take over and have just as much or more say in what happens to you. (i.e. staying at home versus nursing care, level of medical intervention, etc...) Doesn't matter what kind of living will documentation you have, unless somebody on your side is willing to fight in court, the family can still make decisions contrary to your previous stated wishes, if you are not considered able to clearly articulate your wishes.
Yes, my fil is going through this now. He didn’t have a will and he has dementia and Alzheimer’s and my husband and his brother don’t see eye to eye on how to handle this.
 






Lisa

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Truer words have not been spoken.
Even if you don’t think you have anything to live for, you want to live, or at least want a reason to live even if that reason is fear of death.
 






justjess

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Even if you don’t think you have anything to live for, you want to live, or at least want a reason to live even if that reason is fear of death.
And that goes for 100% of people? Come on man...
 






Lisa

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I don’t know where I said most people don’t want to live, I contested your assumption that most people when faced with terminal illness or a disease destroying their life that will never be fixed want to live. You don’t know what each and every one of them is thinking or wants. You can’t. You aren’t god. Assuming anything under those conditions is presumptuous at best.

I know many people who chose to stop pursuing futile treatment and just let nature take its course. I know my own father consented to treatment until the very end only to appease my mom. I know my grandma voluntarily told them to take her off all supports entirely conscience and lucid. I know I myself chose not to take medications that destroy my short term quality of life in hopes it might improve my long term. On the other hand my 90 year old grandpa elected to have a hip replacement, despite it possibly killing him because quality of life was more important to him then length, elective treatment for the same principle instead of declining treatment for it. My husbands grandma tried to decline heart surgery for months until finally caving to pressure from her daughters.

There are so many different shades of grey and you making a statement of MOST anything is kinda unbelievable.

We have a lot of suicides in this country and world wide. It doesn’t have to be BILLIONS to be statistically relevant. The suicide rate increases unabated yearly with no end in sight. I’d even argue a large part of the addiction crisis in this country stems from the same thing or atleast something similar.

None of which is relevant to the question of whether a severely ill or terminally ill person should be able to end their own life if they want to. They should.

The case you posted is surprising as mental illness doesn’t usually qualify for obvious reasons and until I have the time to look into it more I’m unwilling to comment on that specifically further.
I didn’t see where we were talking about a terminal illness, I thought you were saying I was wrong in thinking most people in general want to live...I guess we were having two different conversations
. In any event, I think that even terminal patients would like to live longer, I don’t think people really want to die.

But, if you are a young girl and are told by adults that life will never get any better for you, then maybe you think you will be better off dead. That’s just not right!
 






Lurker

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But, if you are a young girl and are told by adults that life will never get any better for you, then maybe you think you will be better off dead.
Then again, a young woman could already know it's not going to get better.
 






Lisa

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And why are people always so certain life can’t get better? I think people often confuse a perfect life with getting better. If it can’t be the way you imagine it..then its not worth it, which I think is the wrong way to look at it.
 






Lisa

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Meaning at 17 she's not a young woman, or of course it could get better?
Meaning at 17 she is no way qualified to decide to end her life that soon. She has no idea what awaits her life if she lives and for adults older than her to say, yep you’re right your life can’t get better that’s just wrong and a lie!!! :mad:
 






Lisa

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But you, not even trying on her shoes, are qualified? At what age can she decide? 25? 40? 80? Or Biblically, never?
Life can always get better...its a fallacy to think it never can and she will live the rest of her life like she is now, otherwise who could make it through life?
 






Vixy

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Cant say I blame her, I tried offing myself first time at 11. In the horsepicture you can tell she's reeeeally struggling and is full of anxiety. However, this is WRONG. God says when we die and not us. Just 17...damn, I'm heartbrokened. You can tell by he rmothers facial expression aswell with the white background, that shes in complete despair but is trying to hold it together. So damn sad!
 






Vixy

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Life can always get better...its a fallacy to think it never can and she will live the rest of her life like she is now, otherwise who could make it through life?
Not always Lisa..I didnt get better. Half my life is gone and evry damn day is one horror show after another..Theres an endless amount of pain in this world, physical aswell as spiritual.
 






Lisa

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Cant say I blame her, I tried offing myself first time at 11. In the horsepicture you can tell she's reeeeally struggling and is full of anxiety. However, this is WRONG. God says when we die and not us. Just 17...damn, I'm heartbrokened. You can tell by he rmothers facial expression aswell with the white background, that shes in complete despair but is trying to hold it together. So damn sad!
Sounds like you’ve had a hard life too Vixy, but I’m glad you’re still alive! :)

Ya it’s not right what was done to her, she was too young to die.
 






Lisa

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Not always Lisa..I didnt get better. Half my life is gone and evry damn day is one horror show after another..Theres an endless amount of pain in this world, physical aswell as spiritual.
I'm sorry for the pain you go through..there really isn’t anything that is good in your life?

Edit: typo
 






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