Sufi Muslims And Gnosis

[AspiringSoul]

@Lisa you go off on a tangent without understanding even the basics of what I said.
We can choose to see this world how we want hence I said people can meditate in diff aspects of God which is why I quoted from the psalm as an example and e David praying for his enemies to be humiliated.
Also about your doctrine regardless of the sacrificial lamb aspect you have made Jesus co equal with God and that is completely wrong and against the New Testament. All the belief you have on him being a sacrifice is nullified due to this false belief and it was a proven failure because Christians became deeply sinful by the time prophet Mohammad Saw came. Ie you do not reflect the qualities of Jesus so if you don't belong to the tree then what are you?

The lamb of God belief?
https://sufianswers.wordpress.com/tag/lamb-of-god/
Makes a lot of sense

 

[Etagloc]

I mean that's the thing. If you- "you" being anyone- are so curious about the occult, so curious about the spirit world, so curious about playing with forces you have no business playing with, if you wanna go play with these twins who want you to come play with them forever and ever:

then just watch the Shining. For real. If you're so curious, you wanna know about the experience, know what it's like- watch The Shining. You can get the whole experience, see "oh wow how cool! that's what it's like to be demon-possessed" and you can see the whole experience with the benefit of being able to turn the movie off and resume your normal life. But if you do it in real life..... real life isn't a movie. Once you turn it on, you can't just turn it off.

I said messing with the occult is like joining a gang. What was that Master P said about being a gangster?

"You wanna be in
Ain't no way out
But death or the mother******* jailhouse"

What was that Puff Daddy album called?

 

[AspiringSoul]

@Etagloc bro look
Metaphysics right?

You have the physical, the etheric, the mind, spirit and Holy Spirit.

You have the jalali and the jamali aspects which deal with the transcendent and immanent.

now for me that metaphysical map when explains with the individual sephirots makes perfect sense ...however she choose the path of Islam as the complete and straight path within that metaphysical map. Ie the 5 salahs correspond to those 5 levels.

now the kabbalists are not muslims and so they do not practice the straight path hence they go off in areas within that map that aren't necessary. Again the salahs and the different dhikr's of Allahs names ie the jalali and jamali are the keys to unlocking the map and they do not have it.
I'm one of those people that will sit back and read what's people say think etc and then think "what's a better way to do it?"

For example I have enoughhh experience of the jinn world but am a bothered? Shit don't impress me, the novelty wore off when I realised the Jinns exist inside a world that we can bring under our own control

See in the Sufi system they usually miss out the etheric level and just sun it all up as Malakut
So I have Nasut..the physical
And then straight to malakut ie the mental universe.
The key to conquering malakut

...........

Is the cultivation of iman...

 

[AspiringSoul]

im not at my desk otherwise would reply in more detail by cross referencing the sephirots along with their Sufi counterpart level with explanations but maybe u already know this?
The key is that we have to conquer malakut and failure to do it is what brings on all our problems...

Yet when attempting to do it you get met with th nafs..and all it's tricks and deceptions. I'm Not unfamiliar with any of this tbh, it's not new to me.
The mere focus on evil and doubt leads to fast manifestations of evil situations...that are designed by the nafs to throw us off course. This is lower maya in action ie it wishes to keep us trapped in the illusion of this world.
So if people out there wish to get trapped in side games like tarot, channelling and divination that's their business but the metaphysical map itself directly breaks down out link directly to Allah. The tree of life represents the primordial man ie The soul.
For me that's the best of Kabbalah and most of the other stuff is not Kabbalah. Btw you might want to look into Kabbalah from the perspective of actual practicing Jews and not some other occult group who do not follow the Law of Allah. For example what if theosophists were calling themselves sufis? There are already so called Masonic sufis who make many reference to Sufi ideals yet they are not authentic sufis given authentic Tariqahs are built on shariah.

 

[Etagloc]

Riiiiiiight. For the other occultists, their unholy attempts to mess with the spirit world blew up in their face and had horrible results. But you're going to do everything the smart way. You're going to create an Islamic Occultism and through the power of Islam, you will develop an occultism that won't explode in your face.

You might even build a utopian society through combining Islam and sorcery.

/sarcasm

 

[Etagloc]

What is the Quran's position on sorcery?? I'm a little rusty but I could have sworn the Quran was against it.

 

[JoChris]

What is the Quran's position on sorcery?? I'm a little rusty but I could have sworn the Quran was against it.

I can't cut-and-paste the link for some reason.
Google The Koran as Magic filetype pdf

Would Muslims say this is correct about Islam overall, or is this confined to certain groups e.g. Sufis.

 

[Etagloc]

The Quran basically is sorcery. Repeat these incantations in Arabic a bunch of times a day..... I used to repeat them. I even felt like I was doing sorcery. I don't think it's a proper way of prayer. With the Bible, you can pray in whatever language it is you use. And you can pray how you like. You're not mechanically repeating things in another language. It's very witchcraft-like.

 

[JoChris]

I just skimmed that file....

If that is Islam overall Muslims have no right to claim they worship the same God as Jews/ Christians.
All those fortunetelling and divination activities are CLEARLY condemned in the Old Testament. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+18:10-13&version=KJV

 

[manama]

Also your final point is nonsense, you just once again illustrated your poor understanding of the metaphysics
Jabarut represents the Rahman of Allah manifest
so it is not an incarnation of Allah...but the manifestation of God's power.

I was told that by someone who is actually a Shia. There are many branches of Shia sect, each have their own opinion of Ali a.s, And all of those opinions are most of the time lies.

 

[manama]

What is the Quran's position on sorcery?? I'm a little rusty but I could have sworn the Quran was against it.

Extremely against it.

 

[manama]

The Quran basically is sorcery. Repeat these incantations in Arabic a bunch of times a day..... I used to repeat them. I even felt like I was doing sorcery. I don't think it's a proper way of prayer. With the Bible, you can pray in whatever language it is you use. And you can pray how you like. You're not mechanically repeating things in another language. It's very witchcraft-like.

lmao who told you to keep repeating it if you didn't know what you were saying

 

[manama]

I can't cut-and-paste the link for some reason.
Google The Koran as Magic filetype pdf

Would Muslims say this is correct about Islam overall, or is this confined to certain groups e.g. Sufis.

Omg thats not even what true istikhara is. All you do in istikhara is ask God to show you if what you are going to do is good for you in this life, in your religion, in your level of faith, and in your life after death. And you see the dream which hints at that. THATS IT.

im too lazy and skimmed through the files but fal, talisman, magick etc is haram in islam.

The thing about reading is a certain way as sorcery is true but in a different sense. For example if you read Quran backwards (not going from last chap to first but rather each sentence and words backwards) you are basically mocking the word of God and thus demons helo these peoples in turn of doing evil. Similarly is with the Bible. It doesn't matter what religious text you pick up, you have to mock it and do evil stuff so satan is pleased with you. People who do black magic, use Quran and rip it etc or walk on it or read it in a blasphemous way. For example putting Satan's name instead of God and praising him.
Similar to how i don;t remember who exactly but either aleister crowley or anton lavey once said that to be a magician you should know how to speak backwards and walk backwards etc. Thats all satanic stuff.
Similarly people in the west, often use Bible in this way or Torah and mock christianity to please satan. Inverted cross and mocking Jesus and virgin birth etc.




This doesn't mean that Quran or Bible or Torah are books of sorcery but rather people use religious texts and mock them and do evil with them in honor to please the demons so they will lend them help. We have seen in various VC articles how people were mocking God and Christianity in their ceremonies, songs etc. IT has to do with that.

 

[Etagloc]

lmao who told you to keep repeating it if you didn't know what you were saying

I didn't say I didn't know what I was saying. I knew what the words meant in English but why was it so important that I uttered the words in a particular language? That's the aspect that is very witchcraft-like. I think everyone is familiar with the image of a sorcerer uttering incantations in some mysterious foreign language. With Christianity there is no insistence that you must pray in some particular holy language. You pray in whichever language you like. And I think it's generally best to pray in whatever language you are most comfortable. You can access God through the culture you are comfortable with. You don't have to give up your culture. If you are a Spanish-speaker, you can pray in Spanish, you can pray in Arabic, Swahili, whatever. I think this makes way more sense than the Arabcentrism of Islam. From an Islamic perspective, it's like you have way less aspect to the things of God if you don't know Arabic. The Quran even says we'll all be speaking Arabic in heaven.

Now I understand someone might say the Bible is Jewishcentric but this doesn't really hold up very well. You don't have to be super familiar with Jewish culture or understand Hebrew. You can keep your language and culture insofar as you're not doing things like idol-worship and you don't need a team of scholar to tell you which hand you can eat with and how many fingers you can use to eat with.

 

[manama]

I didn't say I didn't know what I was saying. I knew what the words meant in English but why was it so important that I uttered the words in a particular language?

its not important tho. We just do it in Arabic because that is how it was revealed. It is just a form of love i guess. You are reading the verse how God revealed it on earth. Thats a beautiful thing.

it's generally best to pray in whatever language you are most comfortable. You can access God through the culture you are comfortable with

Yep, same. There is no ruling that you must pray to God or wish etc in arabic. Obv you'll do it in the language you know BUT i think you are confusing reading with recitation.
When we "Read" Quran we read it in the language we know so we can understand what it says.
BUT when you "Recite" it. you recite it how it came down on earth from the heavens.
If you are familiar with Arabic you can see the difference of :"feeling" between the translated text and the original one. Its just that. I feel loved when i say "There is no God but Allah" in the same way and same language as how the prophet used to say and how the angels revealed that to him. And how God set those words to be revealed. Its a very personal feeling and a beautiful one.

The Quran even says we'll all be speaking Arabic in heaven.

The Quran doesn't. Some stories have been made which led to fabrication of a hadith. The only thing we know about the language of paradise is that, it will be beautiful and easy. Thats all.
This is the particular hadith you are referring to
It was narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Awsat, al-Haakim, al-Bayhaqi in Shu’ab al-Eemaan and others that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah said: “Love the Arabs for three reasons, because I am an Arab, the Qur’aan is Arabic and the speech of the people of Paradise is Arabic.”

Ibn al-Jawzi ruled that this hadeeth is fabricated.

Al-Dhahabi said: I think that the hadeeth is fabricated (mawdoo’).

Al-Albaani said in al-Silsilah al-Da’eefah (no. 160): (it is) fabricated.

 

[manama]

You can keep your language and culture insofar as you're not doing things like idol-worship and you don't need a team of scholar to tell you which hand you can eat with and how many fingers you can use to eat with.

LOL fatwas
some scholars also said nail polish is haram lmao, this is why we don't take them seriously to me my religion is what Prophet taught and God said.

 

[AspiringSoul]

I was told that by someone who is actually a Shia. There are many branches of Shia sect, each have their own opinion of Ali a.s, And all of those opinions are most of the time lies.

The Persians use the term jabarut.
Jabarut is the level where causati N takes place ie where Allah bestows His imminent qualities within creation ie Al Raheem= the bestowal of mercy which comes from the name Al-Rahman
So basically they say that the prophet Saw is the definitive proof of jabarut. The Shias have added Ali As to that amongst the other ahle bayt.
If you look into platos theory of forms for example then basically where the true forms come from are the loh al lahfooz so you can think of the prophet Saw as the perfect form ie the perfect man and then the Shia have applied that to Ali As too. It isn't shirk but it isn't even necessary for them to do that.
wuat happened was someone's made this statement regarding jabarut online and a well known wahabi channel exposed them as Polythiests, the Shia then attempted to explain the nature ignorance jabarut and failed to adquetly explain it. Though it was a term used in Persian Sufi metaphysics the sufis could explain it better.
I mean the actual educated sufis and not the moronic fat dodgy pir types in Pakistan...

 

[AspiringSoul]

What is the Quran's position on sorcery?? I'm a little rusty but I could have sworn the Quran was against it.

Bro lay off the medicine it's harming your ability to think rationally here
Where is the sorcery in me understanding the metaphysics ie the nature of the soul, its levels and how it connects with Allah?
And also my way is simply Islam ie praying salat which is what I highlighted.

You think you have knowledge on occultism but don't even realise that things like divination and ruqya are also occult areas of expertise and anyone involved in them is technically an occultist.
Yet divination of drawing lines and ruqya without shirk and evil are both encouraged by the prophet Saw
So please stop using the term occultist in an evil sense because that suits your argument. Not that I'm an occultist merely because I've experienced these other planes.

The tree of life offers me important insights that other Islamic metaphysical maps didn't offer specifically with the division of The the jalali and jamali aspects of the etheric body and the heart (divided into the mental and Astral planes)
Again I'm not at my desk so can't explain the details of how this works but I also know you would not read into it.
It all connects to the Islamic path..what I call the straight path.
Aside from salat there's tasbih/dhikr and dual from Allahs names.
I don't even need to venture into those worlds to grow spiritually because we're always connected to them whilst we're in the physical and we also witness them through dreams.

 

[Etagloc]

Muhammad encouraged divination??? And you accuse me of using the term "occultist in an evil sense". So there's a good kind of occultist??

This stuff goes totally against the Bible. We're not supposed to be involved in witchcraft as Christians.

You try to make me sound crazy because I'm against occultism?

I haven't read all the hadith. Maybe there are pro-brujería hadith. If Islam is okay with divination and witchcraft while Christianity is opposed to it- then this just shows how great Christianity is.

Furthermore, the "tree of life" is not meant for mere contemplation. It's meant to be put to use in witchcraft.

If divination and witchcraft are part of the Islamic path...... then it's even worse than I thought.

Why do you think I don't know divination is part of occultism? There's a reason I threw away my tarot cards.

Is this what sufism is? Islam plus occultism???

I hope you become a Christian. Jesus is the way. Not occultism.

 

[manama]

If Islam is okay with divination and witchcraft while Christianity is opposed to it- then this just shows how great Christianity is.

Its freaking not bruh.
If you indulge in witchcraft, according to islam you are the worst of people, your prayers aren't accepted and you'll go to hell.

Is this what sufism is? Islam plus occultism???

When you forget you are of a monotheistic abrahamic faith and try to go and study hindusim etc and other polytheistic faith and apply it to the monotheistic faith even though your faith says not to.

Tada sufism formed.