Sufi Muslims And Gnosis

[Etagloc]

Qabala is occultism. Chakras is occultism.

 

[manama]

Oh I see in a mosque near me they pretty much worship the guy. Yh I've heard the Ali thing, sad really that people will believe this when everything is in scripture

I heard some Shia communities discourage people to read the Quran alone and encourage them to follow an approved list of Shia translated verses. This would probably make sense as to why people have been indoctrinated to believe such a thing about Ali but I can't confirm this as truth just an internet rumour

Some Shia live close by where i lived before. They used to spit in the food they served people because of some belief as in purifying the food by the spit of the Aahlay bait or something LOL then we came to know it was really common among certain branches of Shia Islam. People stopped eating at their place lmao. I have few Shia classmates, never touched any home made stuff during parties.

 

[AspiringSoul]

They don't call Ahmad guy as a prophet. They say he was the mahdi.
similarly to how Shia people says mahdi is already alive and hiding.
Some branches of Shia islam also think Ali a.s was God's Incarnation (astaghfirullah)

they believe he is the messiah
so in doing that they deny Isa AS and are in effect making him a prophet too.

Also your final point is nonsense, you just once again illustrated your poor understanding of the metaphysics
Jabarut represents the Rahman of Allah manifest
so it is not an incarnation of Allah...but the manifestation of God's power.

yeh taken from a yoga instructor.

@Aspiring Chakras and Qabala are occult. Qabala is used to summon demons. That stuff is dangerous.

bro that isn't true kabballah
just like there are many false sufis
the legit kabbalists believe in living acording tot he rules in the Torah

Also bro in the kabballah system you have the 'tree of life' which is what i quoted
and the 'tree of death'
the ones who practice evil are using the tree of death, that's basically against kabballah.

 

[JoChris]

So you see Christians we Muslims have our differences too such is the nature of man

But note how there's no confliction regarding the basis of Islam, oneness of God and his books.

Of course I as an outsider may not be seeing things as Muslims do - but it makes me think this is really is a variation of Gnostic "Christianity", only substituting Allah for the Christian God.

Some of the Gnostic heretics actually praised Satan too, for introducing knowledge to Adam and Eve. See Sethian and Ophites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_heresies#Gnosticism

 

[AspiringSoul]

Of course I as an outsider may not be seeing things as Muslims do - but it makes me think this is really is a variation of Gnostic "Christianity", only substituting Allah for the Christian God.

Some of the Gnostic heretics actually praised Satan too, for introducing knowledge to Adam and Eve. See Sethian and Ophites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_heresies#Gnosticism

look there are many sufis who say, to even break 1 rule of shariah means you're not a sincere seeker

ie very strict

and yet there are some who say, you should sin just to experience God's mercy...

seriously.

the difference lies in their state ie what their heart is reflecting...here are the 99 names of Allah
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam

you will bring a different perspective to your consciousness depending on which name you meditate on.
ie someone meditates on God as the All-merciful,,,,even sees satan and evil as 'good'
another meditates on God as Al Muzil (The Humliliator) won't even dare to commit the even the smallest sin.....

 

[Lisa]

another meditates on God as Al Muzil (The Humliliator) won't even dare to commit the even the smallest sin.....

Sad name of a god...the humiliator? Does a god really need to humiliate anyone?

What's good about evil and satan?

 

[AspiringSoul]

Sad name of a god...the humiliator? Does a god really need to humiliate anyone?

What's good about evil and satan?

God bringing someone to humility through humiliation and discgrace is not a sad name, especially if that person was evil, arrogant.

Psalm 35:4
May those who seek my life be disgraced and put to shame; may those who plot my ruin be turned back in dismay.


and about Evil/Satan
it is not that evil is good...but evil allows us to know/appreciate what is good.

Paul spoke of how the law made sin known, so God's grace could be revealed.

 

[Lisa]

God bringing someone to humility through humiliation and discgrace is not a sad name, especially if that person was evil, arrogant.

Psalm 35:4
May those who seek my life be disgraced and put to shame; may those who plot my ruin be turned back in dismay.

But you said evil is good?

 

[AspiringSoul]

But you said evil is good?

I said
ie someone meditates on God as the All-merciful,,,,even sees satan and evil as 'good'

because when someone attains the gnosis of this quality of Allah,then anything else than Mercy disappears...
so in this sense, you witness the mercy of God even in the midst of evil

hence

Titus 1:15
To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.

 

[Lisa]

I said
ie someone meditates on God as the All-merciful,,,,even sees satan and evil as 'good'

because when someone attains the gnosis of this quality of Allah,then anything else than Mercy disappears...
so in this sense, you witness the mercy of God even in the midst of evil

hence

Titus 1:15
To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.

Eh? How are those 2 things equal to one another?

 

[Lisa]

and about Evil/Satan
it is not that evil is good...but evil allows us to know/appreciate what is good.

Paul spoke of how the law made sin known, so God's grace could be revealed.

So, are you saying the law is evil or sin, or both? Well, the trouble with God's grace being revealed to us, is that its also liked about so that some people think that God's only begotten Son was a prophet and didn't come to save anyone....

 

[AspiringSoul]

Eh? How are those 2 things equal to one another?

well think of the quote Titus 1:15
to the pure, ALL THINGS are pure
does that mean sin is pure, excrement is pure?
it means the person is so in tune with this single quality, that they do not see anything 'else' than it except they see things through it, in light of it.

it is easy to understand...

 

[Lisa]

well think of the quote Titus 1:15
to the pure, ALL THINGS are pure
does that mean sin is pure, excrement is pure?
it means the person is so in tune with this single quality, that they do not see anything 'else' than it except they see things through it, in light of it.

it is easy to understand...

It does sound like they "see things through it" anyway..

 

[AspiringSoul]

So, are you saying the law is evil or sin, or both? Well, the trouble with God's grace being revealed to us, is that its also liked about so that some people think that God's only begotten Son was a prophet and didn't come to save anyone....

no you're looking at it the wrong way round, you're focusing on evil
and in Titus 1 it says
but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.
if you focus on good then you'll see the good in everything for example.

also the other stuff, you're just going in adifferent direction
it is only symbolic language here, ie the 'only begotten son' referring to the Logos/Word of God.
In islam, we believe Jesus is the Word of Allah
so who is denying? we just do not believe in your doctrine that says the Son is co-equal with the Father.

also
'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son
so don't just throw around the term 'Son' so aimlessly, the Son is referring to the Logos in the new testament context. However muslims don't believe in using such terms, so we stick to calling him the Word (Kalam) of Allah.

you couldn't say 'you deny Jesus Christ is the Word of God/Allah'because then you know we do.

 

[Lisa]

no you're looking at it the wrong way round, you're focusing on evil
and in Titus 1 it says
but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.
if you focus on good then you'll see the good in everything for example.

also the other stuff, you're just going in adifferent direction
it is only symbolic language here, ie the 'only begotten son' referring to the Logos/Word of God.
In islam, we believe Jesus is the Word of Allah
so who is denying? we just do not believe in your doctrine that says the Son is co-equal with the Father.

also
'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son
so don't just throw around the term 'Son' so aimlessly, the Son is referring to the Logos in the new testament context.

You can try to see the good in everything, but the reality is is that not everything is good. God can bring good from bad but that doesn't mean the bad was good.

Well, you don't believe the correct doctrine and keep trying to say nothing is wrong with that because the quran says this or that...when the reality is aspiring that God meant to say Jesus is His only begotten Son. His Son, had a purpose here on earth and that's the other thing that the New Testament tells us about. Jesus taking the punishment for our sins....when you ignore that or explain it away you aren't close to the truth so it doesn't matter if you choose to see good in everything, that's not going to help you at all.

 

[Lisa]

@AspiringSoul
“But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.”
Luke 6:27-28

So much for humiliation...

 

[Haich]

Of course I as an outsider may not be seeing things as Muslims do - but it makes me think this is really is a variation of Gnostic "Christianity", only substituting Allah for the Christian God.

Some of the Gnostic heretics actually praised Satan too, for introducing knowledge to Adam and Eve. See Sethian and Ophites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_heresies#Gnosticism

Possibly, the issue is Sufism has its own branches too. Some may take that view you've proposed others may differ. It's quite confusing I just stay away from sectarian discussions.

Personally I just follow the Quran and Sunnah (way) of the Prophet. All these additions are just complications we don't need in the faith...

 

[Haich]

Some Shia live close by where i lived before. They used to spit in the food they served people because of some belief as in purifying the food by the spit of the Aahlay bait or something LOL then we came to know it was really common among certain branches of Shia Islam. People stopped eating at their place lmao. I have few Shia classmates, never touched any home made stuff during parties.

Lool the spit of Ahlal bait that's actually funny

Yh they have their unique ways don't they.

They even slash themselves for some reason...just so much innovation!

 

[Etagloc]

they believe he is the messiah
so in doing that they deny Isa AS and are in effect making him a prophet too.

Also your final point is nonsense, you just once again illustrated your poor understanding of the metaphysics
Jabarut represents the Rahman of Allah manifest
so it is not an incarnation of Allah...but the manifestation of God's power.

yeh taken from a yoga instructor.



bro that isn't true kabballah
just like there are many false sufis
the legit kabbalists believe in living acording tot he rules in the Torah

Also bro in the kabballah system you have the 'tree of life' which is what i quoted
and the 'tree of death'
the ones who practice evil are using the tree of death, that's basically against kabballah.

Kabballah "tree of life" stuff is Jewish occultism. If you deny that it's occultism, I think you're lying. I used to practice occultism. I think pretty much anyone who has really studied occultism knows about the "tree of life" Qabalah stuff. It's considered to be a fundamental thing if you want to practice witchcraft. Hermetic magic places a huge emphasis on it. I am hesitant to even be discussing these things because I don't want any impressionable minds to get ideas. Messing with witchcraft and occultism..... I mean, it's like joining a gang in a way. You are asking for trouble and these things are to be left alone.

"Adherents of the Mysteries have long held the idea that the Tarot has its origins in the arcane system of the Kabbalah, though there is no firm historical evidence for this. The work of 19th century French occultist, Eliphas Levi, was the catalyst for the study of the esoteric links between Tarot and Kabbalah, which became the main model for the development and interpretation of the Tarot. The most influential decks of the 20th century were founded on Kabbalistic principles, in terms of their structure, symbology and interpretation."

I used to be an occultist. I'm not unfamiliar with this stuff. http://www.byzant.com/mystical/tarot/Kabbalah.aspx

Now where else do we find the so-called "tree of life"? On the ten of pentacles tarot card! I know this from memory because I used to teach people how to read these cards. I had three students if not more.

If you don't see it, look at the "tree of life" and look at how the pentacles are strategically arranged.

I studied the "tree of life". I even had a poster of it hanging up in my house. If you have a poster of it in your house, tear up that poster and throw it in the garbage and remove it. I had multiple books on it and I studied it and all that. I had two different copies of the Dion Fortune book on it. I'm not pulling stuff out of thin air. I'm familiar with Qabalah and I've studied it. It's garbage and it invites evil. "The powers that be don't want us to know this POWERFUL HIDDEN OCCULT KNOWLEDGE"..... if you want to purchase the ocean-front property in Arizona, I guess that's your decision. You're basically saying "well no, I'm totally different- you see I'm into white magic- this is not black magic". Uh huh. I used to be into this stuff. These are not ground-breaking revelations to me. I've heard it all before. "THIS IS POWERFUL HIDDEN KNOWLEDGE THEY DON'T WANT US TOO HAVE", the idea that there is white magic and black magic, whatever. I've heard it. I've been there, done that. I've already fallen for the scam. I have no intention of falling for the same scam twice. It is annoying to me when someone presents the same recycled things I've heard a million times and then repeats them as though they're presenting new ideas.

"The Hidden Agenda of the Kabbalah

Most people do not Knowingly go towards Lucifer (who is appropriately called Satan). So those who end up worshipping Lucifer essentially have to be tricked into doing this. Theosophy spends a great deal of time with the Kabbalah (caballa/quabalah), because the books of the Kabbalah pretend to be about Jewish History. The premise of those who study the Kabbalah is that they are reading an ancient series of books, usually containing HIDDEN knowledge about the Bible, and about the Universe.

The problem is - that is not ACTUALLY what the Kabbalah is doing. The system of the Kabbalah claims to be based on Jewish Mysticism. But we have to look at that claim very closely. Some people who hear the term "Jewish Mysticism" think that this applies to Jewish Spirituality that is derived FROM the Old Testament, from the Bible. That is NOT true ! It is confusing because books About the Kabbalah are written in a style which is confusing, designed to lead readers to think that they are studying DEEP things, when the only event that is truly taking place - is that readers [of books about the Kabbalah] are being deceived."

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Kabbalah/kaballah_truth.htm

I've actually studied this stuff and I know a couple things about it. The kabbalah is not just some philosophy or theory. I've studied this "POWERFUL HIDDEN KNOWLEDGE THEY DON'T WANT YOU HAVE". It's a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. The theory, philosophy, whatever- that stuff's not the point.

If you know this stuff then you know that all the theory is there merely to prepare you for the practice. And the practice is to open doors to the spirit world and experience direct communion with spirits.

Look, man if you wanna go and repeat other peoples' mistakes, I guess I can't stop you. Some people don't want to learn from others' experiences and they want to go and learn it the hard way for themselves. I was one of those people and that was why I tampered with things I had no business messing with. People tried to warn me and all this but I didn't care, I wanted to experience for myself.

If you want to invite spirits, I guess that's your decision. If you want to just assume the spirit world is a nice, friendly place that it's Mr. Roger's Spirit Neighborhood and everyone is friendly and loving, I guess that's your decision. But I reserve the right to laugh when you find out the spirit world is not Mr. Roger's Neighborhood and that all spirits are not warm, loving beings who want to help you. And you can't choose which ones will enter once you open the doors.

I'm not really talking to try to benefit you. I don't think you care what I am saying and you want to repeat the same mistakes I myself made. How am I any better?? I was the same way myself. But I speak for the benefit of others who may be reading. If I can motivate one person to avoid my mistakes then perhaps God will forgive me for the sins I've committed.

The thing about the occultist is the occultist- at least for me, when I was an occultist- is like the scientists in the movie Jurassic Park.

You see, the scientists are thinking to themselves "can we do it?? can we really do it?? can we really bring dinosaurs back from the dead??"

These lunatics. The truth is- yes- yes, they can. If they are so intent on discovering "wow can we really do it??"- yes, yes, they can. They can do it.

But we put so much emphasis on the right answers that we forget the value of the right questions.

You see, their answers are correct. Yes, they are able to do this thing and yes their theories are correct in a technical sense and they have approached the correct method of accomplishing their task.

But these poor lunatics- they've found the right answers but they're totally lost because they haven't found the right question. The right question is not "can we do this?". The right question is "should we do this?"

The kabbalah is an unholy science just as the Jurassic Park scientists practiced an unholy science. They had no business trying to bring back the dinosaurs. When I was a kid, I loved those movies. I remember meeting my best friend in pre-kindergarten and how we loved playing with our toy dinosaurs. I even knew how to pronounce long and complicated dinosaur names that adults couldn't pronounce and I was so certain I wanted to be a paleontologist when I grew up. But as fascinating as those dinosaurs are and as much I loved reading about the dinosaurs and watching movies about them and putting my Jurassic Park T-Rex puppet on my hand and pretending to bite my cousins with my puppet dinosaur, that movie had an important lesson that I didn't understand until I was older. I think it was a modern retelling of Frankenstein in a way and teaching the same basic message. Dr. Frankenstein had no business trying to do what he did. Those Jurassic Park scientists had no business doing what they did.

If you want to be a mad scientist, if you want to be Dr. Frankenstein, if you want to be those Jurassic Park scientists, if you want to be like those CERN scientists, you go ahead.

If you want to build that opening to the spirit world and you want to scream "it's aliiiiiiiiive, it's aliiiiiiiiiive!" when you manage to succeed, then I guess you can do all that. But understand I am making a pre-reservation to laugh when your dream comes true then morphs into a nightmare.

You see, you can create an opening to the spirit world. It's not that hard to do. The problem is- that's the easy part.

The part that's easy is opening that door. If you really want that door open, I think you can get what you're asking for. The real problem comes once you get that door open. The real problem is getting the door to shut.

 

[Etagloc]

The theory of Kabbalah:

Kabbalah put into practice: