Sufi Muslims And Gnosis

[manama]

@manama honestly i could easily answer all of your points but i know full well you are only here to promote your sectarian views so what would be the point? i don't see your approach as being very honest.

Did i want my points to be answered by you? lmao i don't care about sects or views. To me my religion is what Allah said and his prophet did. People coming after his death can say whatever they want, if the prophet didn't command that, or Allah didn't, their viewpoint doesn't matter to me.
Like in Christianity, what matters is what Jesus and God said or his Disciples, my local church's father can say whatever he wants, Jesus comes first,

 

[manama]

@manama I don't want to argue with you like before because it doesn't bring out the best in me and we'd only go round in circles.
there are contexts to even sufi islam
like you spoke of bidah but read this hadith


(1) Narrated Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman: The people used to ask Allah's Apostle about good, but I used to ask him about evil for fear that it might overtake me. Once I said, "O Allah's Apostle! We were in ignorance and in evil and Allah has bestowed upon us the present good; will there by any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I asked, "Will there be good after that evil?" He said, "Yes, but it would be tained with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil)." I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see their actions and disapprove of them." I said, "Will there by any evil after that good?" He said, "Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Describe those people to us." He said, "They will belong to us and speak our language" I asked, "What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the group of Muslims and their Chief." I asked, "If there is neither a group (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?" He said, "Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state." (Book #56, Hadith #803)

The definitive proof of the first 'evil' was the loss of al Aqsa ie the first crusade.
Muslims by this point had become extremely irrelegious and materialistic. They were hell bent on conquering and looting.
it was at that point islam was revived by sufi islam (Salahuddin even met Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani when he was a boy).
However in the context it is absolutely true that sufi islam had innovations.
The prophet SAW still regarded this as 'good'
Good..but tainted.

Islam was revived and this period lasted for over 500 years however over time the sufis became more and more involved with other things that you and I can both agree were not islam. Eventually muslims were colonised.

The second evil the Prophet SAW came about as a reaction to sufi islam ie it was the rise of the wahabi movement. This was a period of islamic revivalism that gave rise to all kinds of fanaticism and ironically in response to such fanaticism, the sufi movement has gotten far worse with the bidah.
in the context it is in every sense 'evil' and it was precisely because they fought the ottomon sultanate...al aqsa was then given to jews.

What you should realise about me is, i'm def influenced by this hadith to the point where even if i do believe in many of the ideas of sufi islam...i don't FOLLOW any tariqahs or sheikhs..the Prophet SAW rightly said 'keep away from all those different sects'

If they stuff from sufi islam you believe in goes against the teachings of Quran and Hadith then they are plain wrong. The fact that they gave a name to it to separate it from the norm is also really pathetic.

Last time we talked about stars and zodiac and stuff, all that stuff if Angels not being a real physical being but a thought EVEN THOUGH Quran says otherwise, The stuff about jinn not being real physical entities and AGAIN Quran and hadith says otherwise. And all the stuff about cosmos and thought process which again isn't mentioned either in Quran and Hadith, if its not in Quran or Hadith or heck even Bible and Torah, then they aren't part of faith. Its as simple as that.
There are definitely alot of stuff in spiritual sense but if you take everything as being "spiritual" you'll lead yourself astray. You say you don't follow sufi leaders and sheikhs BUT when these concepts are given by them, whats the difference?

 

[AspiringSoul]

If they stuff from sufi islam you believe in goes against the teachings of Quran and Hadith then they are plain wrong. The fact that they gave a name to it to separate it from the norm is also really pathetic.

Last time we talked about stars and zodiac and stuff, all that stuff if Angels not being a real physical being but a thought EVEN THOUGH Quran says otherwise, The stuff about jinn not being real physical entities and AGAIN Quran and hadith says otherwise. And all the stuff about cosmos and thought process which again isn't mentioned either in Quran and Hadith, if its not in Quran or Hadith or heck even Bible and Torah, then they aren't part of faith. Its as simple as that.
There are definitely alot of stuff in spiritual sense but if you take everything as being "spiritual" you'll lead yourself astray. You say you don't follow sufi leaders and sheikhs BUT when these concepts are given by them, whats the difference?

If you feel it is against the Quran then surely avoiding it would be the better option for you but not everyone has the exact same understanding you do. You have to also respect that you cannot fully appreciate another person's thought process especially if it's been developed over time. Plus much of how we think comes from intuition ie what we FEEL is the right answer along with our logical understanding.
our views came from somewhere, my views were developed over time, i didn't just begin with them.
But i'll give you an example
The Prophet SAW said "when you sleep your soul returns to Allah" but he also said "my eyes sleep but my heart doesn't sleep"
now i don't know about you, but to me this indicated that beyond the deep sleep state IF i could remain conscious, i could witness God.
However i also knew that in dreams we're in the theta state, waking=beta and thinking=alpha
so what happens in delta and beyond if i could remain conscious? even still it requires a lot of meditation and practice to get into deeper and deeper states yet in these states you're going deeper into yourself.
Anyway in hinduism they call this state the Prophet SAW referred to as 'turiya consciousness'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya
incidently they believe when you're in Turiya consciousness you are united with Brahman.
There is sooooo much material on this topic I wouldn't know where to begin.

I believe the metaphysics are the same regardless of religion but our interpretations do differ. Still sometimes i like to read their viewpoints just to get another perspective. Islamic tawhid is important to me as it is to you.

And all the stuff about cosmos and thought process which again isn't mentioned either in Quran and Hadith, if its not in Quran or Hadith or heck even Bible and Torah, then they aren't part of faith. Its as simple as that.

It depends how you look at the Quran
in the Quran a word may be mentioned which requires a lot of further awareness to understand.
So for example the Quran says
“It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof"

personally i've read different tafsirs on this verse and do not agree with them/ to me, 'of the earth' refers to the human form ie bani adam and the likeness of the 7 heavens is within our soul.
So take the 7 chakras and the 7 heavens and the corresponding prophets.
How do they relate?

For example the first chakras, the root chakra symbolises the physical form, the prophet on this level was Adam AS. not very deep there but you get it right?
The next one is the sacral chakra which is connected with the Etheric plane/body. Now i know you do not know what 'etheric' means or how it relates ot the creation of the physical world, I won't get into that. Basically the etheric represents the lifeforce and the breath. The symbol of the chakra is Water. it's also related to our sexual organs, fertility to our birth etc. The connected prophets are Yahya and Isa AS.
You know the Mandean religion which was built o Yahya AS (john the baptist) they were basically devoted to the principles of life/fertility etc.
You have their miracilous births mentioned in the Quran. We know Isa AS was born from the Divine breath (which is the universal energy, the etheric plane). It is also connected with other sayings of Isa AS and also with the baptism.

The third (solar plexus) chakra relates to the astral body/plane. It's symbol is fire. It is also the level where we interract with jinns, but i won't get into that aspect here. It is connected with willpower and desire. in hinduism it is called the kama body where kama means desire (hence the kama sutra which again is a diff topic lol).
The reason it's connected with willpower specifically is because desire can overpower us or we can have control over it. Yusuf AS is connected to it...if you read the Quran Yusuf AS was tempted when he was offered sex. He was protected by Allah.

4th chakra is connected with pure thought that arises from a clean heart. It's connected with Enoch/Idris AS who was transported and witnessed the physical universe, the 7 heavens and hells etc. It represents the mental plane. It is also the angelic level.

similarly the 5th/throat chakra is represented by Harun AS. it represents the state of our soul when Allah first communicated with the souls, so it also represents the creation of the soul
"Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified.
This loka is called jana loka which means 'to be born'this chakra is connected with pure communication...
in the case of Harun AS he was known for being eloquent in speech and he communicated the Torah to his people.

The 6th chakra (the third eye) is connect with the 'akashic records' aka the loh al mahfooz of which the Quran (and Torah) is a microcosm, this level represents the Laws of the universe. The prophet Musa As represents the Torah.

7th chakra is connected to pure consciousness. Basically it's the level where we meet Allah and it represents the highest level of faith Ihsan, the prophet mentioned on this level was Ibrahim AS which i think you can make sense of.

of course you can try understanding the nature of creation downwards from the highest level to the lowest ie why did communication come before thought and desire?

also, even though we were created AFTER the Loh al mahfooz yet we can rise above it not due to our own power but the light of Allah.
There's a lot of material written by sufis and hindus on the subject explaining our descent and ascent. Why something lower can rise above something lower ie why did ibees rise higher than angels? this is one of the keys of Allah's creation inc why Adam AS is higher than the angels.

Also there are different metaphysical systems, for example in kabballah the central vertical 5 represents the 5 salahs

im not merely saying this because there are 5, but because i've looked into their nature ie what they represent as a part of the self.
This system also does connect with the 7 chakras but in a difference way.
the left and right sides deal with the Transcendent and Immanent aspect of Allah which also breaks down our Descent and Ascent.

Now the angels jinns are not physical beings. The unseen is explained to us whilst we're in the physical, using physical terms/imagery we can relate to with the senses.
The light is knowledge/order that's reflected from the loh al mahfooz which angels represent.
The fire is the desire/craving connected to the astral body which jinns represent.
The prophet SAW said he saw Gabriel AS in his 'true form'
but the form itself is a formation of thoughts/images that are produced in the mind.
To get to the point where you can witness a true form, means to overcome our lower thoughts and desires/attachments etc.
for example whilst we're sinful, can we see angels at all?
the purer our heart and mind become, the more accurate the reflection
until we see pure reflections
however they are still reflections and not the real thing.
the real thing cannot be seen by us in this life.

 

[manama]

You have to also respect that you cannot fully appreciate another person's thought process especially if it's been developed over time. Plus much of how we think comes from intuition ie what we FEEL is the right answer along with our logical understanding.
our views came from somewhere, my views were developed over time, i didn't just begin with them.

"Views" shouldn't be at the same place as the religious scriptures. You can't make the scripture fit your views, your views have to fit your scripture.
I won't even talk about the other symbol things, we say sufism is paganism, you use pagan symbols to justify it LOL That just proves our point. It isn't islam, its paganism that is more connected to the occult side of paganism.

The light is knowledge/order that's reflected from the loh al mahfooz which angels represent.

But lohe mahfooz is being guarded by Israfil. Israfil is crying since he knows whats written in it. Angels being the reflection of lohe mahfooz makes absolute zero sense. When we study about the angels FROM the Quran and Hadith. We are told their physical description as well as difference between them and alot more. If God can make us, he can make another perfect specie. Where did you get the lohe mahfooz part from? I don't see it in Quran or Hadith.

So for example the Quran says
“It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof"

personally i've read different tafsirs on this verse and do not agree with them/ to me, 'of the earth' refers to the human form ie bani adam and the likeness of the 7 heavens is within our soul.
So take the 7 chakras and the 7 heavens and the corresponding prophets..

Putting all that weird hinduism stuff aside, if you just bother googling a little more about astronomy etc, you'd know there are stuff like dimensions. We aren't living in a single universe (we kinda are) BUT its a mutliverse system. According to science there is a probability that there are more universes but with different laws of physics and according to Islam what God has told us about, are seven universes.
Heaven doesn't mean paradise in these verses. It means sky or space.

The fire is the desire/craving connected to the astral body which jinns represent.

You are talking as if all jinns are satan. They are a different specie from our own, no need to twist it.

The prophet SAW said he saw Gabriel AS in his 'true form'
but the form itself is a formation of thoughts/images that are produced in the mind.
To get to the point where you can witness a true form, means to overcome our lower thoughts and desires/attachments etc.
for example whilst we're sinful, can we see angels at all?
the purer our heart and mind become, the more accurate the reflection
until we see pure reflections
however they are still reflections and not the real thing.
the real thing cannot be seen by us in this life.

All of this is nothing but a twisted viewpoint. None of it has to do with Islam, idek where people come up with this stuff.

 

[manama]

. We know Isa AS was born from the Divine breath (which is the universal energy, the etheric plane).

wtf

 

[AspiringSoul]

@manama
You can't make the scripture fit your views, your views have to fit your scripture.
you realise here that how we even interpret scripture in itself depends on our already established views.
My views are built on the scripture though. I didn't arrive at those views independent of the Quran/hadith. They developed After i had read the Quran and hadiths and the reason they developed how they did were due to the questions I began to ask after reading the quran and hadith.
I made that clear in my post but you've ignored me wherever it's relevant to you. I find that deceptive.

You are talking as if all jinns are satan.
who said anything about satan? fire relates to desire, desire is not evil it just depends on where that desire leads.
The mere fact I equated it with Yusuf AS shows it isn't 'satanic' but it is the level where Jinns come into existence.

I won't even talk about the other symbol things, we say sufism is paganism, you use pagan symbols to justify it LOL
you mean the chakras and the kabballah system? it's just, you do not understand them and I do. I have explained how the chakras relate to the prophets witnessed on the 7 heavens and you have zero response.



Btw, you can bang on about your supposed belief in the Quran and hadith and you can dismiss 'paganism' but without the influence of vedic, persian and egyptian philosophies, the greeks would not have developed the concept of hades, which they passed onto jews and was then referred to as Gehenna. Hence they would be no Jahannum in you're vocabulary.
similarly 7 heavens and hells and such things did not come from the bible but from these other systems.
Metaphysics is true whatever your religion but the interpretations differ depending on religion.

The loh al mahfooz
the word Loh means book, the word Mahfooz means Guarded/preserved.
The preserved scritorium refers to this
(4) (Inscribed) in Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz
(سورة البروج, Al-Burooj, Chapter #85, Verse #22)


But lohe mahfooz is being guarded by Israfil.
Angels being the reflection of lohe mahfooz makes absolute zero sense. When we study about the angels FROM the Quran and Hadith

Well reading the Quran is one thing but how you UNDERSTAND the Quran is another.
For example, the Quran doesn't give us precise information of astronomy yet we use astronomy/physics to understand the physical universe...


What I said was
The light is knowledge/order that's reflected from the loh al mahfooz which angels represent.
this doesn't mean the angels are a reflection of the entire loh al mahfooz
i meant the knowledge/order that relates to the laws of creation, are further reflected in the angels.
The angels are not equal to Allah but they partake in the process of creation and they are subservient to the universal laws. They do not posses free will.


Lastly you do not understand what I mean when i say 'sense objects/senses'.
Regarding the nature of jinns, angels, Allah, the heavens, hells etc...we can only make sense of them whilst we're in this world, through imagery our senses are already familiar with. the brain interpret the unseen into forms/imagery.
the Soul is not physical, how can angels be physical?

 

[AspiringSoul]

wtf

I should have said 'conceived from the divine breath'

(1) And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: we breathed into her of Our spirit, and we made her and her son a sign for all peoples.
(سورة الأنبياء, Al-Anbiyaa, Chapter #21, Verse #91)

The Breath refers to the etheric life force which is from Allah.

Now, it's clear you do not know what the 'etheric plane' even is.




This is why islam is in such a mess because of the revivalist wahabi/salafi bs that's taken over islam.
I even quoted the hadith where the Prophet SAW said

I said, "Will there by any evil after that good?" He said, "Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Describe those people to us." He said, "They will belong to us and speak our language" I asked, "What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the group of Muslims and their Chief."

fact is you can't even make sense of this very clear hadith how can you make sense of metaphysical concepts?

 

[manama]

you mean the chakras and the kabballah system? it's just, you do not understand them and I do. I have explained how the chakras relate to the prophets witnessed on the 7 heavens and you have zero response.

Are they in the religious teachings? No. So even if you say they represent prophets nope, thats just taking something pagan and saying its about the prophets.

Btw, you can bang on about your supposed belief in the Quran and hadith and you can dismiss 'paganism' but without the influence of vedic, persian and egyptian philosophies, the greeks would not have developed the concept of hades, which they passed onto jews and was then referred to as Gehenna. Hence they would be no Jahannum in you're vocabulary.
similarly 7 heavens and hells and such things did not come from the bible but from these other systems.
Metaphysics is true whatever your religion but the interpretations differ depending on religion.

Heaven and hell didn't come from the bible, they were created by God and told to us in his books. Thats it. "Persian, Greek, Egyptian philosophies" don't matter here.

Well reading the Quran is one thing but how you UNDERSTAND the Quran is another.

And thats how sects are made and extremists come into existence. You can't twist the meaning of a Quranic verse into something it isn't about. Shia peopl say there are 138 verses about Mahdi in Quran. but in truth there are none, they twist the meanings of the verses to suit their ideals. What you are doing is no different.

the Soul is not physical, how can angels be physical?

Angels are physical. Quran says that and hadith. About them not being spiritual hmmmmmm not so much.

(1) And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: we breathed into her of Our spirit, and we made her and her son a sign for all peoples.
(سورة الأنبياء, Al-Anbiyaa, Chapter #21, Verse #91)

The Breath refers to the etheric life force which is from Allah.

Its talking about Soul tho

This is why islam is in such a mess because of the revivalist wahabi/salafi bs that's taken over islam.

That doesn't make sufi ones good either. Once you classify yourself into a sect, you are a dead cause.
That hadith you keep quoting for no reason is also about sects.
To me my religion and its teachings end with Prophet Muhammad s.a.w for this very reasons, ones who come after that and insert new stuff into religion under the guise of "interpretations" and "understandings" and "viewpoints" can do die.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to say, when beginning a khutbah (sermon): "… The best of speech is the Book of Allaah and the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad. The worst of things are those which are newly-invented, and every innovation is a going astray…"

 

[AspiringSoul]

@manama well what I simply did was understood how the chakras relate to the 7 heavens and how those chakras further relate to the Prophets AS so i've clearly used a methadology attached to islam (the hadith here) to make sense of this system.
Furthermore the fact that the 7 heavens and chakras existed in hinduism before we had them is proof that they were correct in this area.
Allah sent Prophets to every nation so I don't see why you have to equate everything with 'paganism'
rather the truth became mixed with falsehood over time.

Heaven and hell didn't come from the bible, they were created by God and told to us in his books. Thats it. "Persian, Greek, Egyptian philosophies" don't matter here.
but the understanding of their nature and how they relate to the specific prophets who represented them is an area that interests me. It doesn't interest you but I explained it to you to put into context your views on sufi metaphysics being 'paganism'
just because the themes overlap doesn't make them pagan, it's because the metaphysics is the truth.
even if you're a hindu, you still have the same levels of consciousness.

Angels are physical. Quran says that and hadith. About them not being spiritual hmmmmmm not so much.
are the 7 heavens also physical? is the soul physical?


Its talking about Soul tho
The soul is what we are, the body is just our outer garment we're clothed in, in this world.
I said Isa AS was born from the Divine breath (I admit i used the wrong word, it should have been conceived), something that's in the Quran....
your 'wtf' response says it all about your arrogance and ignorance.
you reflect the basic childish behaviour i've seen all my life in the staunch salafists.
and the salafist/wahabis are certainly the evil group inviting muslims to the doors of hell as per that hadith


That doesn't make sufi ones good either. Once you classify yourself into a sect, you are a dead cause.
You obviously purposely ignored what I wrote in a previous post, yet I said it with good intent...
I made it clear where the sufis are placed within the context of that hadith ie the bidah
so no, i don't believe the sufis are perfect but they are still 'good' in the context of the hadith YET i already told you i don't FOLLOW any sufi ie i don't take part in the gatherings, the milad or follow any pir. That doesn't mean i should avoid the subjects they often relate to. Those subjects still matter to me.
you've never given this stuff any real thought.

To me my religion and its teachings end with Prophet Muhammad s.a.w for this very reasons, ones who come after that and insert new stuff into religion under the guise of "interpretations" and "understandings" and "viewpoints" can do die.

we're told to establish our understanding from the Quran and hadith, not limit out understanding to them and not go beyond.
They are the foundation.
So when I spoke of turiya consciousness i related it to the hadith and my understanding of brainwaves/states of consciousness
likewise when I spoke of the chakras/lokas and the kabballah system, it is due to the fact it relates directly to the Quran/sunnah.

See this is precisely why the Prophet SAW foretold the wahabi movement as the 'horn of satan', why you have the najd hadith and why he said they would 'invite others to the doors of hell'
you are limiting islam into such a backward simplistic dumb religion that lacks spirituality.
it's a revivalist movement that ignores all contexts that took a long time for muslims to develop.
You can presend you don't follow that sect but you've quoted from a website that says
"Allaah"
that is a sure sign you are quoting from a wahabi/salafist website.


To me
Islam gives us our prescribed obligations..and what is haram...
and everything inbetween is halal EXCEPT what interferes/harms/alters the divinely prescribed obligations. So bidah only applies to alterations to the prescribed things like if we altered our salat that is haram and bidah. However if i want to read Surah fatiha 500 times on a friday sitting on a hill facing east...
that is totally halal and a praiseworthy act.


whereas you, if something is not 'in the Quran/hadith' it is 'bidah or kufr'
so if i wanted to read Surah Fatiha 500 times on a friday sitting on a hill facing east, you'd ask
"did the prophet SAW do it? no, it is bidah"
your method is basically restrictive and ugly.
it's precisely why the Prophet SAW foretold the wahabi/salafi sects the way he did, as outright evil.

Whilst you criticise sufis
the wahabis are killing muslims left right center under their idea of 'kufr/bidah'

 

[Etagloc]

Aspiring, why are you promoting Qabalah????? How is Qabalah and chakras and all that other occult, demonic stuff a part of Islam?????????

People, praise Jesus and leave the occult alone.

And if you disagree with me that Jesus is God and you don't worship Jesus.... well, then please at least leave occultism alone. That stuff is dangerous and it's taboo for a very good reason.

Aspiring you are advocating a blend of Islam and occultism. You might as well be trying to promote tarot and astrology as Islamic.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Aspiring, why are you promoting Qabalah????? How is Qabalah and chakras and all that other occult, demonic stuff a part of Islam?????????

People, praise Jesus and leave the occult alone.

And if you disagree with me that Jesus is God and you don't worship Jesus.... well, then please at least leave occultism alone. That stuff is dangerous and it's taboo for a very good reason.

Aspiring you are advocating a blend of Islam and occultism. You might as well be trying to promote tarot and astrology as Islamic.

erm because the metaphysics in the sephirot system make perfect sense to me and they relate to stuff within islam that your ave person just cannot understand yet.
it takes time to learn bro.

it isnt even difficult to learn.

actually
i divide it with the jalali/jamali and the higher/lower aspects so you have 4 sides which do relate to the 4 humors in unani medicine, the 4 seasons and yes this does relate to astrology and tarot but i don't really follow that system, i believe there is some useful information when trying to understand our personalities and mindset....but the cultivation of iman is far more important but the system of the 7 chakras and the sephirots

im quite open and honest about my beliefs/perspectives, happy to explain them to anyone but don't appreciate when someone just says 'it's occultism, pagan etc' because the truth to me is bigger than that.

 

[manama]

@manama well what I simply did was understood how the chakras relate to the 7 heavens and how those chakras further relate to the Prophets AS so i've clearly used a methadology attached to islam (the hadith here) to make sense of this system.
Furthermore the fact that the 7 heavens and chakras existed in hinduism before we had them is proof that they were correct in this area.
Allah sent Prophets to every nation so I don't see why you have to equate everything with 'paganism'
rather the truth became mixed with falsehood over time.

Heaven and hell didn't come from the bible, they were created by God and told to us in his books. Thats it. "Persian, Greek, Egyptian philosophies" don't matter here.
but the understanding of their nature and how they relate to the specific prophets who represented them is an area that interests me. It doesn't interest you but I explained it to you to put into context your views on sufi metaphysics being 'paganism'
just because the themes overlap doesn't make them pagan, it's because the metaphysics is the truth.
even if you're a hindu, you still have the same levels of consciousness.

Angels are physical. Quran says that and hadith. About them not being spiritual hmmmmmm not so much.
are the 7 heavens also physical? is the soul physical?


Its talking about Soul tho
The soul is what we are, the body is just our outer garment we're clothed in, in this world.
I said Isa AS was born from the Divine breath (I admit i used the wrong word, it should have been conceived), something that's in the Quran....
your 'wtf' response says it all about your arrogance and ignorance.
you reflect the basic childish behaviour i've seen all my life in the staunch salafists.
and the salafist/wahabis are certainly the evil group inviting muslims to the doors of hell as per that hadith


That doesn't make sufi ones good either. Once you classify yourself into a sect, you are a dead cause.
You obviously purposely ignored what I wrote in a previous post, yet I said it with good intent...
I made it clear where the sufis are placed within the context of that hadith ie the bidah
so no, i don't believe the sufis are perfect but they are still 'good' in the context of the hadith YET i already told you i don't FOLLOW any sufi ie i don't take part in the gatherings, the milad or follow any pir. That doesn't mean i should avoid the subjects they often relate to. Those subjects still matter to me.
you've never given this stuff any real thought.

To me my religion and its teachings end with Prophet Muhammad s.a.w for this very reasons, ones who come after that and insert new stuff into religion under the guise of "interpretations" and "understandings" and "viewpoints" can do die.

we're told to establish our understanding from the Quran and hadith, not limit out understanding to them and not go beyond.
They are the foundation.
So when I spoke of turiya consciousness i related it to the hadith and my understanding of brainwaves/states of consciousness
likewise when I spoke of the chakras/lokas and the kabballah system, it is due to the fact it relates directly to the Quran/sunnah.

See this is precisely why the Prophet SAW foretold the wahabi movement as the 'horn of satan', why you have the najd hadith and why he said they would 'invite others to the doors of hell'
you are limiting islam into such a backward simplistic dumb religion that lacks spirituality.
it's a revivalist movement that ignores all contexts that took a long time for muslims to develop.
You can presend you don't follow that sect but you've quoted from a website that says
"Allaah"
that is a sure sign you are quoting from a wahabi/salafist website.


To me
Islam gives us our prescribed obligations..and what is haram...
and everything inbetween is halal EXCEPT what interferes/harms/alters the divinely prescribed obligations. So bidah only applies to alterations to the prescribed things like if we altered our salat that is haram and bidah. However if i want to read Surah fatiha 500 times on a friday sitting on a hill facing east...
that is totally halal and a praiseworthy act.


whereas you, if something is not 'in the Quran/hadith' it is 'bidah or kufr'
so if i wanted to read Surah Fatiha 500 times on a friday sitting on a hill facing east, you'd ask
"did the prophet SAW do it? no, it is bidah"
your method is basically restrictive and ugly.
it's precisely why the Prophet SAW foretold the wahabi/salafi sects the way he did, as outright evil.

Whilst you criticise sufis
the wahabis are killing muslims left right center under their idea of 'kufr/bidah'

meh

 

[AspiringSoul]

@manama your religion in a nutshell

 

[Haich]

So you see Christians we Muslims have our differences too such is the nature of man

But note how there's no confliction regarding the basis of Islam, oneness of God and his books.

 

[manama]

@manama your religion in a nutshell

nah i just don't add stuff my yoga instructor says, into my religion.

 

[Haich]

I don't really hold much of an opinion of Sufism, I see it as an extension of Islam moreso because there seems to be an emphasis on mysticism

However to even utter they're not Muslim I find quite sinful, if someone says the shahada then they're Muslim. If their beliefs conflict with the sunnah and Quran then that's a separate though worrying issue

This is a side point but one sect or branch of Islam I totally disagree with and scholars conclude aren't 'Muslim' are Ahmediyya Muslims. They believe there was a prophet after Mohammed so...can't really consider them to be on the right path

 

[manama]

I don't really hold much of an opinion of Sufism, I see it as an extension of Islam moreso because there seems to be an emphasis on mysticism

However to even utter they're not Muslim I find quite sinful, if someone says the shahada then they're Muslim. If their beliefs conflict with the sunnah and Quran then that's a separate though worrying issue

This is a side point but one sect or branch of Islam I totally disagree with and scholars conclude aren't 'Muslim' are Ahmediyya Muslims. They believe there was a prophet after Mohammed so...can't really consider them to be on the right path

They don't call Ahmad guy as a prophet. They say he was the mahdi.
similarly to how Shia people says mahdi is already alive and hiding.
Some branches of Shia islam also think Ali a.s was God's Incarnation (astaghfirullah)

 

[Haich]

They don't call Ahmad guy as a prophet. They say he was the mahdi.
similarly to how Shia people says mahdi is already alive and hiding.
Some branches of Shia islam also think Ali a.s was God's Incarnation (astaghfirullah)

Oh I see in a mosque near me they pretty much worship the guy. Yh I've heard the Ali thing, sad really that people will believe this when everything is in scripture

I heard some Shia communities discourage people to read the Quran alone and encourage them to follow an approved list of Shia translated verses. This would probably make sense as to why people have been indoctrinated to believe such a thing about Ali but I can't confirm this as truth just an internet rumour

 

[Etagloc]

@Aspiring Chakras and Qabala are occult. Qabala is used to summon demons. That stuff is dangerous.

 

[Etagloc]