Qualifications To Be A Christian

[UnderAlienControl]

 

[Etagloc]

Is this yet another attempt on these forums to subvert Christianity?

I mean... it's just strange. Christ is right there in the word "Christianity". I'm not tryna make you seem like anything lesser as a human being or anything like that. But if you don't study economics, you're not an economist. If you don't study rocks, you're not a geologist. If you don't worship Christ, you're not a Christian.

If you come up to me and you're an expert on physics but you want me to call you a sociologist and you tell me I'm oppressing you because I won't call you a sociologist when you're clearly a physicist or I'm oppressing you because you're clearly a human but you sexually identify as an attack helicopter, I mean.... I don't know what to tell you.

Words have specific meanings. If you're willing to break one of the fundamental Aristotelian rules of logic, the law of non-contradiction, and say that 1=2 or that a person can be an attack helicopter, you're entitled to do that. If you want to make up your own definition of Christianity and ignore the root of the word itself, you can do that. I really don't care. But I'm not going to follow you off the edge of that cliff.

You cannot go against one of the most fundamental rules of logic. I understand postmodernism is trendy these days and you can take a postmodern approach but it just opens the doors to insanity. The only reason we're able to communicate is because words have specific meanings. Without that, language itself would break down.

But what baffles me is- why is this even an issue? Do you not want to worship Christ? You have that option. Not everyone worships Christ. But if you don't want to worship Christ, why do you want other people to call you a Christian?

I don't want to study rocks and mathematics. I have the option of not studying those things and I exercise that option. If you don't want to worship Christ but you want people to call you a Christian, that's like if I tried to get people to call me a geologist or a mathematician when I don't study rocks or math. It's strange. If you don't worship Christ, why would it be important to you that people call you a Christian? Would you call someone a taxi driver if they don't drive a taxi?

I'm not tryna invoke a curse but I think Paul's words should be remembered just so it is understood how serious a matter the preaching of an "other gospel" is

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. -Galatians 1:6-9

 

[Etagloc]

And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain and your faith is also vain. -1 Corinthians 15:14

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@UnderAlienControl - good post on the Golden Rule.

Do unto others as you would have them do to you...

I have met so many people, )some of whom are great friends btw) who say "I'm not religious but 'I try to live a good life and keep the Golden Rule"...

The problem is that we don't.

None of us.

We treat ourselves very much better than we treat others. Even on forums we apply standards of criticism and harshness to the words of others we would never want applied to our own.

God must have a many a facepalm moment over this... Why can't we get it!?

"There is none righteous, no, not one"...

The sacrificial system is instituted in the OT because people don't think of others before themselves. God provides the illustration time and time again as an innocent animal pays the price for the sin of another.

After the 300th lamb, you would think that the message that they had a problem with sin might begin to sink in...

The story of the Rich Young Ruler, when he asks "what good thing must I do to be saved" underlines the fact that so many still didn't get it. Most people still don't.

 

[Damien50]

Is this yet another attempt on these forums to subvert Christianity?

I mean... it's just strange. Christ is right there in the word "Christianity". I'm not tryna make you seem like anything lesser as a human being or anything like that. But if you don't study economics, you're not an economist. If you don't study rocks, you're not a geologist. If you don't worship Christ, you're not a Christian.

If you come up to me and you're an expert on physics but you want me to call you a sociologist and you tell me I'm oppressing you because I won't call you a sociologist when you're clearly a physicist or I'm oppressing you because you're clearly a human but you sexually identify as an attack helicopter, I mean.... I don't know what to tell you.

Words have specific meanings. If you're willing to break one of the fundamental Aristotelian rules of logic, the law of non-contradiction, and say that 1=2 or that a person can be an attack helicopter, you're entitled to do that. If you want to make up your own definition of Christianity and ignore the root of the word itself, you can do that. I really don't care. But I'm not going to follow you off the edge of that cliff.

You cannot go against one of the most fundamental rules of logic. I understand postmodernism is trendy these days and you can take a postmodern approach but it just opens the doors to insanity. The only reason we're able to communicate is because words have specific meanings. Without that, language itself would break down.

But what baffles me is- why is this even an issue? Do you not want to worship Christ? You have that option. Not everyone worships Christ. But if you don't want to worship Christ, why do you want other people to call you a Christian?

I don't want to study rocks and mathematics. I have the option of not studying those things and I exercise that option. If you don't want to worship Christ but you want people to call you a Christian, that's like if I tried to get people to call me a geologist or a mathematician when I don't study rocks or math. It's strange. If you don't worship Christ, why would it be important to you that people call you a Christian? Would you call someone a taxi driver if they don't drive a taxi?

I'm not tryna invoke a curse but I think Paul's words should be remembered just so it is understood how serious a matter the preaching of an "other gospel" is

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. -Galatians 1:6-9

It wasn't an attempt to subvert anything. I wanted people's qualifiers for what they recognized as a Christian. So from the replies of @Red Sky at Morning and @JoChris it would be roughly someone that believes in Christ in his entirety being a king, servant, man, son of God and denying no aspect of him.

Like I said, I already believe Jesus is God. God spoke in the old Testament; Thus saith the Lord and He spoke in the New Testament.

@Red Sky at Morning appreciate the verses you shared.

 

[justjess]

So how do you define what qualifies a Christian?

I showed you mine now show me yours

Just the belief that Jesus was sent by god/divinely inspired to show us how we should live our lives. A living message. WWJD.

He doesn't have to be literally god to be those things.

 

[Damien50]

Just the belief that Jesus was sent by god/divinely inspired to show us how we should live our lives. A living message. WWJD.

He doesn't have to be literally god to be those things.

I see.

I at some point started to feel some remorse for my OP in response to some of the latter responses made because I felt I may have mislead some into a false line of thinking especially with

We can all name things that make a Christian a Christian and belief that he was God incarnate is not a qualifier.

I do believe that belief is crucial because without it there's no point and in that same vein, I personally, understand that there is some deeper and intimate relationship between God and Jesus that over reaches anything anyone before him had attributed. However because it is something I personally don't have a full or let's say confidence in I don't expect others to nor do I see a reason to be anything but kind to someone that can't see this one part of the theology the way I do to attempt to grow with them spiritually.

Objectively and not my intention to go of off topic into my own personal ramblings, the responses here were odd. There was no real mention of qualities that made a Christian aside from belief in him and his life. I saw, not in its entirety, the faith and belief aspect but the aspect of Christian conduct was not represented.

I could take from this thread, aside from you Jess, that belief in Christ is pretty much it. That is essentially why I quoted Etagloc at the beginning, only believing in Jesus couldn't and isn't the only quality of a Christian but instead I was accused.

Thanks for the share!

 

[justjess]

Ahh.. you were leaning towards the faith vs works issue. I've brought it up myself before but seeing as no self professed Christian here ever agrees with me I tend to leave it alone.

My personal opinion is you can yell out Jesus name all day and night but if your actions don't show it then you aren't a Christian. Imo reading the Bible with no preconception of what it should mean clearly states that.

 

[Kung Fu]

Just the belief that Jesus was sent by god/divinely inspired to show us how we should live our lives. A living message. WWJD.

He doesn't have to be literally god to be those things.

This.

 

[Damien50]

Ahh.. you were leaning towards the faith vs works issue. I've brought it up myself before but seeing as no self professed Christian here ever agrees with me I tend to leave it alone.

My personal opinion is you can yell at Jesus name all day and night but if your actions don't show it then you aren't a Christian. Imo reading the Bible with no preconception of what it should mean clearly states that.

I wouldn't even say that. More so Jesus says take care of the least and charity is something a Christian is called to do. Things like this weren't mentioned. We're already saved but that doesn't mean it stops there, God still has task for us and calls us to our specialties.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Ahh.. you were leaning towards the faith vs works issue. I've brought it up myself before but seeing as no self professed Christian here ever agrees with me I tend to leave it alone.

My personal opinion is you can yell out Jesus name all day and night but if your actions don't show it then you aren't a Christian. Imo reading the Bible with no preconception of what it should mean clearly states that.

A guy marries a girl but spends every Friday night at the strip club. He doesn't even feel bad about it. Is he really committed to that relationship?

 

[Kung Fu]

We're already saved but that doesn't mean it stops there, God still has task for us and calls us to our specialties.

I believe this is where much of the confusion lays. Many would say if you're saved it doesn't really matter what you do in life because regardless of your actions whether they be good or bad the end result will always be the same (paradise).

I apologise for swaying off topic but I couldn't help myself.

 

[justjess]

A guy marries a girl but spends every Friday night at the strip club. He doesn't even feel bad about it. Is he really committed to that relationship?

No. Clearly not.

But the problem you run into is that under typical Christian thought it wouldn't matter. He made the vow so he's good, whether he falls short or outright breaks it or not. As long as he BELIEVES in the vow.

And yeah Damien you should be able to know a Christian by their fruits - which is really the same thing as works. But most christians don't agree with this becaude we are all dirty sinners so long as we pray to Jesus as god our sins don't matter we can never be perfect anyway.

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@justjess - I have wondered about this one myself.

Many times the conversation hinges on the eternal fate of someone who has come to the Cross in true repentance and accepts Jesus as their Lord, then at a later point turns on that relationship and actively pursues a sinful, dissipated life.

I have yet to meet one of these people, and for me, when I have slid away in the past, the Holy Spirit gave me no peace in my 'backslidden' state.

In the end, God will be the judge, and our judgement of one another won't count a bean...

 

[Damien50]

So what makes a Christian a Christian aside from their beliefs?

 

[rainerann]

Most of the time when people say that belief in Christ as the Son of God is required to be a Christian, they know that this will affect their behavior. This isn't just some flippant thing. We believe that accepting Christ as the Son of God produces a spiritual result that cannot be found anywhere else. It is one of the motivating features for accepting Christ and why so many people with addictions and bad behavior will become Christian because Christ can set them free.

It happens like this, you accept Christ as the Son of God and the Holy Spirit comes to dwell with you. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that gives you the ability to overcome demons. Therefore, we call the change that happens to our behavior the fruit of the spirit because it is because of the presence of the Spirit that our behavior changes.

Therefore, saying we accept Jesus as the Son of God is the same thing as saying that we are unable to be gentle, kind, peace-loving without the power of the Holy Spirit. If you look around the world today, there is evidence that this is true. The world does not have the power to be kind or loving without the power of the Holy Spirit that is given to us for accepting Christ alone. We don't need to save up a million dollars for this. This heart of flesh instead of a heart of stone is given to us for free.

So when Christians say that accepting Christ is required to be a Christian it is not because we don't know that we should also demonstrate the presence of Christ in our lives, it is just that we can't take credit for any of these works.

Both of these steps is difficult to understand. If you do not accept Christ as the Son of God, you cannot understand the presence of the Holy Spirit. Most people don't understand accepting Christ, to begin with much less the experience of the Holy Spirit that comes after this. So I know I usually talk about accepting Christ as the Son of God because of the two, this one is easier to understand. It is the starting point after all. It would only make sense that this is the case.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Most of the time when people say that belief in Christ as the Son of God is required to be a Christian, they know that this will affect their behavior. This isn't just some flippant thing. We believe that accepting Christ as the Son of God produces a spiritual result that cannot be found anywhere else. It is one of the motivating features for accepting Christ and why so many people with addictions and bad behavior will become Christian because Christ can set them free.

It happens like this, you accept Christ as the Son of God and the Holy Spirit comes to dwell with you. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that gives you the ability to overcome demons. Therefore, we call the change that happens to our behavior the fruit of the spirit because it is because of the presence of the Spirit that our behavior changes.

Therefore, saying we accept Jesus as the Son of God is the same thing as saying that we are unable to be gentle, kind, peace-loving without the power of the Holy Spirit. If you look around the world today, there is evidence that this is true. The world does not have the power to be kind or loving without the power of the Holy Spirit that is given to us for accepting Christ alone. We don't need to save up a million dollars for this. This heart of flesh instead of a heart of stone is given to us for free.

So when Christians say that accepting Christ is required to be a Christian it is not because we don't know that we should also demonstrate the presence of Christ in our lives, it is just that we can't take credit for any of these works.

Both of these steps is difficult to understand. If you do not accept Christ as the Son of God, you cannot understand the presence of the Holy Spirit. Most people don't understand accepting Christ, to begin with much less the experience of the Holy Spirit that comes after this. So I know I usually talk about accepting Christ as the Son of God because of the two, this one is easier to understand. It is the starting point after all. It would only make sense that this is the case.

Exactly!

I love this passage from Hebrews 12

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

WE are the joy that is set before Him!!!

After everything He has done for us, and how much it cost Him, the least I can do is live a life in holiness and love to the other people He died for...

 

[Kung Fu]

It is one of the motivating features for accepting Christ and why so many people with addictions and bad behavior will become Christian because Christ can set them free.

This is absolute baloney. I have known people confess their belief in Jesus as their Saviour only to die a week later while driving drunk.

Both of these steps is difficult to understand. If you do not accept Christ as the Son of God, you cannot understand the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Yet the forums on here alone have proved this to be false.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Kung Fu - it is a sad fact that Christians are sometimes the worst ambassadors for Christ.

 

[rainerann]

Even when Christians do behave badly, why is this an issue--because then they don't look any different from the rest of the world evidence by the immediate need to post rude comments when someone gives an explanation for how our behavior is changed through the Holy Spirit as Christians. This is exactly what the world looks like without the presence of the Holy Spirit.

That is exactly the point. Some people still act just as rudely as these people who don't accept Christ. The world behaves badly to begin with and some people never change because they become Christian. It is amazing to me how rude people can be and still criticize Christians like they have any right to do this.