Qualifications To Be A Christian

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Damien50

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It's Christianity. Jesus being the Son of God is part of the essence of Christianity. If you don't believe he was the Son of God, you're not a Christian. You can't remove that from Christianity.
Purpose of this thread obviously being the indicated title and me somehow missing and finding issue with the quoted statement above. Now obviously I do believe that Christ is God, more scripture pointing to him being so than not, yet this wasn't a qualifier of belief of anyone in the bible to be considered a follower of The Way(I have a fondness for this term).

We can all name things that make a Christian a Christian and belief that he was God incarnate is not a qualifier.

Here's what I think qualifies one

We should be edifying ourselves and each other to reach a higher spirituality and enhance our relationship with The Most High.

Ephesians 5:8-21 KJV
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: [9] (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) [10] Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. [11] And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them . [12] For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. [13] But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. [14] Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. [15] See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, [16] Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. [17] Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is . [18] And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; [19] Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; [20] Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; [21] Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Ephesians 4:11-16,23-24 KJV
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; [15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: [16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. [23] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; [24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness
.

I think these things encompass and forge the path to the higher spirituality that we should and God does want for us. Submitting ourselves to the one true master that is God and allowing Him to work through us while doing all of the above is essentially Christ like and what the opportunity that is salvation allowed us to do.
Essentially we should be looking, sounding, and living like Jesus and the belief of whether or not he is God being as relevant as pre or post tribulation. It matters but not as much.

This thread wasn't to call out Etagloc, I truly don't care, but for clarification purposes.
 

Damien50

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The Ebionites were Christians long before anyone here. Just because Rome used it's power and influence to subdue the other Christian movements that didn't agree with their version of Christianity doesn't mean they're all of a sudden not Christian anymore.
There are several pre RCC Christian movements that debuted as unitarian and were no more or less Christian than those that accepted otherwise.

I'm curious to know what all the Christians here think it is that makes them Christian because I can't see and don't find the Trinity as being central to the teachings of Jesus.

If someone has scripture to show one isn't a Christian through rejection or ignorance of the divine nature of Christ I'd be elated to read it.

@Lady
If you could show me how I was casting aspersions towards the divinity of Christ or otherwise being a stumbling block to the Christians here I'd appreciate the reproach and correct my ways.
 

Serveto

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There are several pre RCC Christian movements that debuted as unitarian and were no more or less Christian than those that accepted otherwise.
Exactly. Consider, for instance, Bishop Ulfilas and many of the gothic kings. They were Arians. Arius, while in some respects not technically "unitarian," was at any rate far from Trinitarian. As I understand, it wasn't until the dispute between Arius and Athanasius was settled in the latter's favor, at the Nicene Council (in 325 AD), that the dogma of the Trinity became enshrined as establishment (Roman) Church dogma. Certainly the Trinity (as dogma) had antecedents prior to the Nicene Council, but it was there solidified, or codified. That, from the time of Christ until the Nicene Council, is over 300 years of Christian history.
 
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Damien50

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Exactly. Consider, for instance, Bishop Ulfilas and many of the gothic kings. They were Arians. Arius, while in some respects not technically "unitarian," was at any rate far from Trinitarian. As I understand, it wasn't until the dispute between Arius and Athanasius was settled in Athanasius' favor, at the Nicene Council (in 325 CE), that the dogma of the Trinity became enshrined as establishment (Roman) Church dogma. Certainly the Trinity (as dogma) had antecedents prior to the Nicene Council, but it was there solidified, or codified. That, from the time of Christ until the Nicene Council, is over 300 years of Christian history.
The interesting yet saddening aspect of Christian history at least seems to be two things

  1. Christian history never occurred until 300A.D. or at least that is the perception given by ignorant comments
  2. Christian history never occurred until the reformation which is as fallacious as the first
As far as my research has went, the first church in Jerusalem containing Peter and so on did not teach or hold fast to a Trinity doctrine. Some time around the council of Nicea do we find as you, Serveto, mentioned disputes concerning the Trinity.

“The show of agreement pleased Constantine, who had no understanding of the theological issues, but in fact there was no unanimity at Nicaea. After the council, the bishops went on teaching as they had before, and the Arian crisis continued for another sixty years. Arius and his followers fought back and managed to regain imperial favor. Athanasius was exiled no fewer than five times. It was very difficult to make his creed stick”
The word Trinity, in relation to God, having been more or less coined by Tertullian in the second century.

And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for the unity is distributed in a Trinity. Placed in order, the three are the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. —Against Praxeas 2
Though the truly interesting bit lies in that regardless of belief or non in a Trinitarian stance, they were will still considered Christians. I see no reason to cast off a fellow man or woman in Christ because of one doctrine that can be inferred but is never stated blatantly.

Christ didn't cast away Peter when he denied him three times why would Christ's flock cast away some because they lack in a doctrine isn't central to the teaching of their shepherd?
 

rainerann

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Jesus being the Son of God is part of Christianity. Saying Jesus is the Son of God is not the same as saying Jesus is God. The original quote in question has nothing to do with Trinity doctrine. That is an assumption that is being made.

"Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (John 3:18).

If you don't recognize the authority of Christ as the Son of God, you are not a Christian. Here is Paul's description of the role of Christ in 1 Corinthians 15:23-28.

"But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at His coming, those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when He abolishes all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He puts all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be abolished is death. For God has put everything under His feet. But when it says “everything” is put under Him, it is obvious that He who puts everything under Him is the exception. And when everything is subject to Christ, then the Son Himself will also be subject to the One who subjected everything to Him, so that God may be all in all."
 

Serveto

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I believe you just solidified Red's point.
What? That words must sometimes be invented to explain phenomena? That's understood and that is why I said @Red Sky at Morning had made a good point.

As I understand, and unlike the word "lonely," however, early Christendom split into warring factions over a diphthong, on whether there should be an "i" in the Greek word homoousious and be made homoiousios, both of which terms were variously applied to Jesus. This is where the Nestorians (and monophysites) parted company with Rome, and none too amicably at that. I am not making this stuff up. Sometimes, I only wish I were.
 
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Damien50

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Jesus being the Son of God is part of Christianity. Saying Jesus is the Son of God is not the same as saying Jesus is God. The original quote in question has nothing to do with Trinity doctrine. That is an assumption that is being made.

"Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (John 3:18).

If you don't recognize the authority of Christ as the Son of God, you are not a Christian. Here is Paul's description of the role of Christ in 1 Corinthians 15

"But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at His coming, those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when He abolishes all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He puts all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be abolished is death. For God has put everything under His feet. But when it says “everything” is put under Him, it is obvious that He who puts everything under Him is the exception. And when everything is subject to Christ, then the Son Himself will also be subject to the One who subjected everything to Him, so that God may be all in all."
I was purposely touching on belief in the Trinity. Like I said I wasn't calling out Etagloc, just sliding into something else of more interest, primarily what makes a Christian.

Thank you for your answer.
 

Lady

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What? That words must sometimes be invented to explain phenomena? That's understood and that is why I said @Red Sky at Morning had made a good point.

As I understand, and unlike the word "lonely," however, early Christendom split into warring factions over a diphthong, on whether there should be an "i" in the Greek word homoousious and be made homoiousios, both of which terms were variously applied to Jesus. This is where the Nestorians (and monophysites) parted company with Rome, and none too amicably at that. I am not making this stuff up. Sometimes, I only wish I were.

Sorry to cause any confusion; I thought you were drawing another conclusion in your reply to Red.
 

Damien50

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Unitarians are christians who do not believe in the trinity. It's a pretty big denomination and currently active. I go to their church.

There is more than one way to interpret the Bible.
So how do you define what qualifies a Christian?

I showed you mine now show me yours
 

JoChris

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Purpose of this thread obviously being the indicated title and me somehow missing and finding issue with the quoted statement above. Now obviously I do believe that Christ is God, more scripture pointing to him being so than not, yet this wasn't a qualifier of belief of anyone in the bible to be considered a follower of The Way(I have a fondness for this term).

We can all name things that make a Christian a Christian and belief that he was God incarnate is not a qualifier.

Here's what I think qualifies one



Essentially we should be looking, sounding, and living like Jesus and the belief of whether or not he is God being as relevant as pre or post tribulation. It matters but not as much.

This thread wasn't to call out Etagloc, I truly don't care, but for clarification purposes.
You need to read 1 John ASAP.
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-1-tests-true-christianity-1-john-overview

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

How can you be acceptable to the Lord if you do not believe in the Lord of the Bible?

Apostle John is reported to have taken heretics very seriously. https://churchpop.com/2016/09/15/the-surprisingly-harsh-way-st-john-the-apostle-responded-to-a-heretic/
 

Damien50

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You need to read 1 John ASAP.
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-1-tests-true-christianity-1-john-overview

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

How can you be acceptable to the Lord if you do not believe in the Lord of the Bible?

Apostle John is reported to have taken heretics very seriously. https://churchpop.com/2016/09/15/the-surprisingly-harsh-way-st-john-the-apostle-responded-to-a-heretic/
Kewl thanks!
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I started to think generally about ways of gaining understanding and I wonder how this one sits with people...

Sometimes when you zoom very close into individual words you are still left with a few possible meanings. When this happens it's good to widen to focus back out to see what we can gather from other passages, rather like seeing the whole landscape, not just a tree.

In this way, we sometimes return to the close focus with a better perspective on an individual verse.

I love this wide focus passage from the beginning of John. If you read it as a whole it might shed a little light...

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Malachi 3:1-5)


6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Psalm 84:1-12)​


14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​
 
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