Prophetic Expectations

[Serveto]

... A few years ago, the US could have used its leverage (as an independent broker) to bring both sides together and force them into ceasing hostilities. I'm not sure the US has that type of influence, anymore ...

I doubt that the USA ever did have that type of influence. Wrote Robert Fisk (my comments in brackets):

"There was a time when we [I assume he means acquiescent journalists] all went along with the myth that American peacemaking in the Middle East was even-handed, neutral, uninfluenced by the religion or political background or business activities of the peacemakers. Even when, during the Clinton administration, the four principle US “peacemakers” were all Jewish Americans – their lead negotiator, Dennis Ross, a former prominent staff member of the most powerful Israeli lobby group, Aipac ... the Western press scarcely mentioned this [note that here Fisk doesn't offer any reasons for how, or why the Western press were so uniformly silent on the issue]. Only in Israel was it news, where the Maariv newspaper called them “the mission of four Jews”.

The Israeli writer and activist [here, it seems to me, Fisk, keeping his career in mind, no doubt wisely follows standard protocol: in order to avoid being unfairly accused of antisemitism, discuss Jewish political power only by quoting Jews, or Israelis, themselves discussing that power], Meron Benvenisti, wrote in Ha’aretz newspaper that ... “it is hard to ignore the fact that manipulation of the peace process was entrusted by the US in the first place to American Jews ... The tremendous influence of the Jewish establishment on the Clinton administration found its clearest manifestation in redefining the ‘occupied territories’ as ‘territories in dispute’.

But lest they be accused of antisemitism [see Carl Bernstein's statement here concerning the taboo as it related to the Bush administration], said Benvenisti, the Palestinians “cannot, God forbid, talk about Clinton’s ‘Jewish connection’...” Still slandered as “antisemitic” for merely condemning Israel’s brutality and occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the same fear still eats away at the courage of the Palestinian Authority. When Trump’s Jewish son-in-law Jared Kushner became the disgraceful President’s [Go Fisk! -I think it's safe to conclude that Fisk is no Trump fan lol] peace “envoy”, the Palestinians, well aware that he supported the continued – and internationally illegal – colonisation of Arab land, even politely welcomed his sudden exaltation as peacemaker. It was the Israeli media that first pointed out how little he knew – and how few people he knew – in the real Middle East ..."

Source

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[Karlysymon]

Let's see if, during their 70th birthday party, when Christian Zionists help Israel blow its candles in celebration, the blowhards (not referring to anybody here) exhale too enthusiastically and just happen, fortuitously in my opinion, to disturb this site, with an arguably Rothschildean stamp, rightly called "sinister" by our host, @VigilantCitizen ...

View attachment 6862​

Prophetic indeed...
(You wear some camel hair and a leather belt, by any chance? )

 

[TokiEl]

I doubt that the USA ever did have that type of influence. Wrote Robert Fisk (my comments in brackets):

But lest they be accused of antisemitism [see Carl Bernstein's statement here concerning the taboo as it related to the Bush administration], said Benvenisti, the Palestinians “cannot, God forbid, talk about Clinton’s ‘Jewish connection’...” Still slandered as “antisemitic” for merely condemning Israel’s brutality and occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the same fear still eats away at the courage of the Palestinian Authority. When Trump’s Jewish son-in-law Jared Kushner became the disgraceful President’s [Go Fisk! -I think it's safe to conclude that Fisk is no Trump fan lol] peace “envoy”, the Palestinians, well aware that he supported the continued – and internationally illegal – colonisation of Arab land, even politely welcomed his sudden exaltation as peacemaker. It was the Israeli media that first pointed out how little he knew – and how few people he knew – in the real Middle East ..."

Source​

I don't know. After all the Jews accepted the United Nations partition plan for Palestine and got attacked the day after independence.

What is Israel to do ? Every time the Arabs attack the Jews gain more land. Three strikes and you're out. Besides the Arabs have a land known as Saudi-Arabia.

Why give them God's land ?

I suggest Israel just show the UN the silent middle finger.

 

[Serveto]

I suggest Israel just show the UN the silent middle finger.

Israel, with the USA's practically unqualified support, especially its highly prized veto (or, recently alarmingly for Israel, abstention) power in the Security Council, often does show the UN (especially the General Assembly) the middle finger: except, that is, when it relies upon the United Nations for its own legitimacy, as demonstrated in its Declaration of Independence, or Establishment:

"...On the 29th of November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable."
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But take heart! The same good tree, that is the United Nations, which produced the good fruit of Israel is presently in labor and may yet produce another good fruit, the State of Palestine, complain though Palestine's antagonists and critics may.

 

[TokiEl]

But take heart! The same good tree, that is the United Nations, which produced the good fruit of Israel is presently in labor and may yet produce another good fruit, the State of Palestine, complain though Palestine's antagonists and critics may.

The Jews are forbidden by God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob to sell or give away any of His land.

God chose Abraham about 4000 years ago and guided him into the holy land and gave him stewardship over it.

Anyway this is a controversy between the world and God which is foretold to be decided by war.

The Captain of the heavenly host is mustering His angelic army.

 

[Serveto]

The Jews are forbidden by God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob to sell or give away any of His land.

Do you have any indication of the exact borders of the land? I think, in the United Nations, it sometimes makes for difficult -that is to say, dodgy- diplomacy to operate in the absence of clearly stated territorial ambitions of Zionist expansionists. This is not to say that all Zionists are expansionist, by any means, but neither does a big percentage of Zionists care what the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has to say on any subject.

Anyway this is a controversy between the world and God which is foretold to be decided by war. The Captain of the heavenly host is mustering His angelic army.

Is the Captain of the heavenly host, by any chance, incarnated, this time around, in the American Pentagon, with field offices in Tel-Aviv? If so, is there any way that I, as an American, may opt out of any involvement whatsoever in holy wars, called, in Hebrew and when approved by observant Jews, milhemet mitzvah, regardless who wages them and for what ultimate purposes and ends?

 

[TokiEl]

Do you have any indication of the exact borders of the land? I think, in the United Nations, it sometimes makes for difficult -that is to say, dodgy- diplomacy to operate in the absence of clearly stated territorial ambitions of Zionist expansionists. This is not to say that all Zionists are expansionist, by any means, but neither does a big percentage of Zionists care what the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has to say on any subject.

Gaza Golan the West Bank and Jerusalem are all part of God's land.

Is the Captain of the heavenly host, by any chance, incarnated, this time around, in the American Pentagon, with field offices in Tel-Aviv? If so, is there any way that I, as an American, may opt out of any involvement whatsoever in holy wars, called, in Hebrew, milhemet mitzvah, regardless who wages them and for what ultimate purposes and ends?

Nay the Captain of the heavenly host is Michael whose name means Who is like God.

 

[Serveto]

Nay the Captain of the heavenly host is Michael whose name means Who is like God.

Well, to me, the Pentagon, at times, seems god-like. Does the Captain of the heavenly host, also known as Michael, piggy-back on the American Pentagon to accomplish his ultimately expansionist ends?

edit to add:

Gaza Golan the West Bank and Jerusalem are all part of God's land.

Sorry. That wasn't quite exact enough for clear diplomacy and nation-smashing and building. I want to know the ultimate borders, especially in light of this verse:

"Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be."
(Deuteronomy 11:24)​

 

[Daciple]

Do you have any indication of the exact borders of the land?

The description was given in the Old Testament and has been fulfilled. The Jews broke the Covenant and then rejected the Messiah, the Land Mass of Israel was taken from them. All Scriptures that point to a Future Fulfillment are all speaking Spiritually or in the New Heavens and New Earth. Zionism is a lie, Jesus wont be ruling on Earth, if we simply take the Scriptures for what they say and interpret them as the Apostles did, then the Kingdom of Christ is already here. Jesus fulfilled everything, the only thing left is His Return and then the New Heavens and Earth.

For some reason all Millennialists ignore this very clear and specific verse, wonder why?

Josh 21:43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Its been fulfilled period...

 

[TokiEl]

Well, to me, the Pentagon, at times, seems god-like. Does the Captain of the heavenly host, also known as Michael, piggy-back on the American Pentagon to accomplish his ultimately expansionist ends?

Pentagon or gram is serving the devil.

And Michael as the Captain of the heavenly host is his arch adversary.

Sorry. That wasn't quite exact enough for clear diplomacy and nation-smashing and building. I want to know the ultimate borders, especially in light of this verse:

Nothing to be sorry about. And there is no need for diplomacy as the Arabs don't get an inch of God's land. They either move back to Saudi Arabia or loose their false religion and become law abiding Israeli citizens.

 

[TokiEl]

The description was given in the Old Testament and has been fulfilled. The Jews broke the Covenant and then rejected the Messiah, the Land Mass of Israel was taken from them.

Thank God that the Jews broke the covenant and rejected the Messiah.

Or thank the Jews.

The New Testament is not for the Jews. It's written in Greek for Heaven's sake.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

One thing I like about this thread is the way it has brought some divergent views together with nothing but the events on the horizon to interpret. Persuasion and argumentation may work in certain circumstances, but they don't control the future!

If we are still around when we get up close to any prophecied events I imagine the conversation may become very interesting!

 

[Daciple]

The New Testament is not for the Jews. It's written in Greek for Heaven's sake.

Are you under the impression that the OT isnt for you, it was written in Hebrew for goodness sake!!!

Unlike a certain member of this forms belief, the entire Bible is written to all of us, all those who believe in the Messiah are in the same Family, there is no distinction between Abraham Issac and Moses and Paul John and you and me. We are all grafted into the same Tree the same Church the same everything. All the promises that were given to them are given to you and me, and the Promises are all fulfilled in Christ.

 

[TokiEl]

Are you under the impression that the OT isnt for you, it was written in Hebrew for goodness sake!!!

That's right. The Old Testament is written for the Jews. And the New Testament is written for the Greek or Gentiles.

Unlike a certain member of this forms belief, the entire Bible is written to all of us, all those who believe in the Messiah are in the same Family, there is no distinction between Abraham Issac and Moses and Paul John and you and me. We are all grafted into the same Tree the same Church the same everything. All the promises that were given to them are given to you and me, and the Promises are all fulfilled in Christ.

There is nothing wrong for a Gentile to read the OT.

But until God pours out His spirit on the Jews and make their scales fall from their eyes, they cannot possibly see that Jesus Christ is their Messiah.

 

[Serveto]

Nothing to be sorry about. And there is no need for diplomacy as the Arabs don't get an inch of God's land. They either move back to Saudi Arabia or loose their false religion and become law abiding Israeli citizens.

What ultimately happens to Christians, including recalcitrant, disobedient Palestinian Arab Christians, in the utopia you seem to envision when the "Messiah" finally takes his throne in Jerusalem?

Benjamin Netanyahu with Ovadia Yosef (Shas Party)


"From another [Orthodox Jewish] perspective Rabbi Ovadia Yose[f], the spiritual authority of the Shas Party [in Israel], corroborated ... Rabbi Yose[f] argued in a September 18, 1989 article in Yated Ne'eman that since Israel is too weak to demolish all Christian churches in the Holy Land it is also too weak to retain all the conquered territories."
Source (Israel Shahak)

Benjamin Netanyahu with Pastor John Hagee (CUFI)
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[Daciple]

But until God pours out His spirit on the Jews and make their scales fall from their eyes, they cannot possibly see that Jesus Christ is their Messiah.

What are you talking about? Was Paul a Jew? Was John a Jew? Was Peter a Jew? Was all the rest of the Disciples Jews? How much of the Early Church do you think was comprised of Jews? I would say the mass majority of it!!!

The Jew has just as much ability to accept Christ as you or I did or do!!

There is not a different method of Salvation for the Jews than the Gentiles, all in thru and by Christ in FAITH Alone. Millennialism literally removes the New Covenant and the method of Salvation. Jews can see Jesus as their Messiah, millions of them have converted...

 

[TokiEl]

What are you talking about? Was Paul a Jew? Was John a Jew? Was Peter a Jew? Was all the rest of the Disciples Jews? How much of the Early Church do you think was comprised of Jews? I would say the mass majority of it!!!

The Jew has just as much ability to accept Christ as you or I did or do!!

I'm afraid not.

Acts 9 17"So Ananias went to the house, and when he arrived, he placed his hands on Saul. “Brother Saul,” he said, “the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here, has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18At that instant, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and his sight was restored. He got up and was baptized,"

Yes i'm saying that the general body of Jewry has been blinded by God to not see the truth of Jesus Christ.

There is not a different method of Salvation for the Jews than the Gentiles, all in thru and by Christ in FAITH Alone. Millennialism literally removes the New Covenant and the method of Salvation. Jews can see Jesus as their Messiah, millions of them have converted...

Very few Jews see Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

But the Good News is that those who called for His crucifiction also shouted for His Blood upon them and their children. The Saving Blood. Do you see how God took something humanly cruel and still turned it into something divinely good ?

There is no need to argue with me.

 

[TokiEl]

What ultimately happens to Christians, including recalcitrant, disobedient Palestinian Arab Christians, in the utopia you seem to envision when the "Messiah" finally takes his throne in Jerusalem?

I am in no position to counsel Jesus Christ about what He wills to do. But i would not want to be an adversary against Him when He returns.

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[Daciple]

Yes i'm saying that the general body of Jewry has been blinded by God to not see the truth of Jesus Christ.

Well I dont think they are in any different position that the general body of the entire World.

2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Very few Jews see Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

Very few people see Jesus Christ as their Messiah!! As I stated which you didnt contest because it isnt contestable, the Early Church was almost exclusively Jews, therefore it your contention that Jews can not come to Christ is incorrect. They have the exact same ability as you or I do.

Do you believe God is a Respecter of Persons? You must if you think the Jew and his ablitiy or lack thereof is different in terms of Salvation than the Gentile.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Do you see how God took something humanly cruel and still turned it into something divinely good ?

Always see how God can turn that which is horrible into something amazing, thats what God does but that doesnt mean that Jews have a different method of Salvation, they dont...

 

[Unknown Warrior]

Many people, including Jews and Gentiles, are awaiting the false messiah. I believe that God has allowed them to be blinded by their own disbelief. But when the antichrist appears on the scene, I think that there will be many who will realize that they have made a terrible mistake and they will be faced with a decision to sacrifice their own life in order to be saved. However, I think that there will be many others who will follow the antichrist and will be devout worshippers of him, knowing that they will face the wrath of God. The angels who followed Satan knew that they would be judged by God, but they made a choice to defy God and spend eternity with Satan.