Prophetic Expectations

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#1
Many religions have within them prophecies of future events. Unless you knew about them you would not realise if they were fulfilled.

I'm opening this thread up for those who are interested in outlining their interpretation of the texts they hold to be true and give the rest of us the heads up on what we ought to be looking out for.

If the Qur'an (and I don't think it does) described the Mahdi making a key alliance between Russia, Korea and Yemen, and that were to happen, how would the rest of us know that the Qur'an had prophecied that, or which Surah it was from?

Let's not argue within our faiths either - this is about a wide angle focus so let's wait and see on this question. E.g. some Christians might be expecting the Rapture one day. Others reject the idea. Let's try instead to describe what both possibilities look like then sit back and wait, rather than argue over who has the right interpretation.

Let's not get too stuck on one particular prophecy 'coming off' either (in an 'I told you don't sense) - even Mother Shipman and Nostradamus have had that happen with some of theirs. The test for divine inspiration will be that in the end ALL will come to pass. Instead, let's take the chance to respectfully inform one another of potential prophetic horizons.

We live in interesting times!
 





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#2
As a general opener, I take the test of a prophet to be the following ..

Deuteronomy 18

17And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
 





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#4
Oh yesss what a great topic!

Well I'll start off by saying I hope this doesn't turn into a my religion vs your religion debate. Let's just learn about each other's faiths!

So for Muslims, we believe in minor signs of the last days, which are general things like corruption on earth, tyrannical leaders, excessive wars etc. Many if not all of the minor signs have already happened.

Then, after the minor signs we believe the major signs of J Day nearing will begin. The first of those is the coming of the Mahdi, a leader from the lineage of the Prophet pbuh who will unite people. Here's a very interesting short video explaining how he comes to be leader

 





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#5
Drawing from the Mahdi video I posted, it is explained upon revelation that he is the mahdi, he will flee and he'll be scared. He will flee to Makkah in Arabia as he knows the monarchy and leadership will probably not accept his claims.

This mirrors the prophet's struggles when he was visited by Gabriel, he too was unable to comprehend the situation that was put to him and feared people would persecute him.

Now this is what I'd like to highlight, the video explains how there will be an army from Syria, flying under the guise of Islam but they have, 'erred'. In other words, they've transgressed and misused the Quran for their own gains. This army will attempt to kill the Mahdi and a war breaks out...could this army be ISIS?
 





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#6
OK, please forgive my cut and paste approach to this post, but as it is a key prophetic answer that Jesus provided his disciples with, I am pasting it here as is. It might be worth unpacking in greater detail...

Matthew 24

1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 





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#7
Drawing from the Mahdi video I posted, it is explained upon revelation that he is the mahdi, he will flee and he'll be scared. He will flee to Makkah in Arabia as he knows the monarchy and leadership will probably not accept his claims.

This mirrors the prophet's struggles when he was visited by Gabriel, he too was unable to comprehend the situation that was put to him and feared people would persecute him.

Now this is what I'd like to highlight, the video explains how there will be an army from Syria, flying under the guise of Islam but they have, 'erred'. In other words, they've transgressed and misused the Quran for their own gains. This army will attempt to kill the Mahdi and a war breaks out...could this army be ISIS?
Does the Qur'an say what nationality the Mahdi might be?
 





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#8
@Haich would I be right in saying that both Islam and Christianity identify various events that occur in the run up to the end times - I noticed you mentioned 'Minor signs' - in the Bible these indications are termed 'The beginning of sorrows' or 'birth pangs'

I think on some issues there may be parallels, on others there will be the potential for those of certain other faiths or nations to be 'The bad guys' - please don't wrap it up, I hope you give it straight, as I know you would like to give it straight in return. I hope we can use this to air prophetic narratives clearly, even if they can't both agree?

It might also be worth considering with each topic if that were one that believers in a particular faith could engineer as against ones that would require powers beyond us, of either good or evil to bring about.

As some people may be ignorant of the views of other faiths it might be worth painting the 'Big Picture' first before getting stuck into the small details, even though these may be important, and even happen on the news (in which case we might have to go straight to the detail then widen out to the bigger context).

Does that sound worth doing?
 





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#9
@Haich would I be right in saying that both Islam and Christianity identify various events that occur in the run up to the end times - I noticed you mentioned 'Minor signs' - in the Bible these indications are termed 'The beginning of sorrows' or 'birth pangs'

I think on some issues there may be parallels, on others there will be the potential for those of certain other faiths or nations to be 'The bad guys' - please don't wrap it up, I hope you give it straight, as I know you would like to give it straight in return. I hope we can use this to air prophetic narratives clearly, even if they can't both agree?

Does that sound worth doing?
Hi Red

I'd like to give this thread a bit more of my attention but currently I'm running after a very energetic baby, so I'll post more reference to what those minor signs are later today, so then we can see if there are any parallels as I'm not aware what the bible says about the end of times
 





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#10
Hi Red

I'd like to give this thread a bit more of my attention but currently I'm running after a very energetic baby, so I'll post more reference to what those minor signs are later today, so then we can see if there are any parallels as I'm not aware what the bible says about the end of times
I watched your video, then another in the series about the Djal - would you be expecting the Mahdi to possibly be alive now but perhaps not know his calling? Might he be a political leader or might he come from obscurity?
 





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#11
Oh yesss what a great topic!

Well I'll start off by saying I hope this doesn't turn into a my religion vs your religion debate. Let's just learn about each other's faiths!

So for Muslims, we believe in minor signs of the last days, which are general things like corruption on earth, tyrannical leaders, excessive wars etc. Many if not all of the minor signs have already happened.

Then, after the minor signs we believe the major signs of J Day nearing will begin. The first of those is the coming of the Mahdi, a leader from the lineage of the Prophet pbuh who will unite people. Here's a very interesting short video explaining how he comes to be leader

Where's the very interesting short video?

:p

Edit: Sorry, must be something wrong with my browser. Lol.
 





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#12
If the Qur'an (and I don't think it does) described the Mahdi making a key alliance between Russia, Korea and Yemen, and that were to happen, how would the rest of us know that the Qur'an had prophecied that, or which Surah it was from?
As I understand, most of the eschatological prophecies of Islam are contained in the ahadith, or extra-Quranic "traditions" of, or attributed to, Muhammad. With that said, and concerning this, your above statement, as it relates to Russia, this lengthy, but, as I see it, informative video features Imran Hussein, an expositor and popularizer of Islamic prophecies, who is in Moscow talking on the very subject. Among the participants, or sponsors, is (non-Muslim) Alexandr Dugin, a redoubtable, controversial personality (and ideologist) in his own right, and a key part the subject matter is the possible future alliance between Islam and especially Eastern Orthodox (non-Zionist) forms of Christianity. In acknowledgement, I want to say thank you, in this case, to the absent past member, Scimi, for having once either posted this particular video or one very like it, which video significantly contributed to my understanding of the topic.
 





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As I understand, most of the eschatological prophecies of Islam are contained in the ahadith, or extra-Quranic "traditions" of, or attributed to, Muhammad. With that said, and concerning this, your above statement, as it relates to Russia, this lengthy, but, as I see it, informative video features Imran Hussein, an expositor and popularizer of Islamic prophecies, who is in Moscow talking on the very subject. Among the participants, or sponsors, is (non-Muslim) Alexandr Dugin, a redoubtable, controversial personality (and ideologist) in his own right, and a key part the subject matter is the possible future alliance between Islam and especially Eastern Orthodox (non-Zionist) forms of Christianity. In acknowledgement, I want to say thank you, in this case, to the absent past member, Scimi, for having once either posted this particular video or one very like it, which video significantly contributed to my understanding of the topic.
Do many Muslims take the view that a certain portion of the church will align itself with Islam at a future point?
 





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#19
Do many Muslims take the view that a certain portion of the church will align itself with Islam at a future point?
Concerning numbers, I do not know (and have only studied the issues as a comparatively diligent student, not as a Muslim). With that said, the idea of a possible alliance, even if on exclusively Islamic terms, seems to have currency in some Islamic circles, among some insightful commentators.

For example, one noteworthy hold-out against the fiercely secularizing Ataturk (in the 1920's), a man of broad vision, was Sheikh Beddiuizin Said Nursi. Although it doesn't say so here, I seem to recall his having claimed, in another of his letters, that an anti-hero (of Islamic eschatology), "Sufyan," was, or is, a sort of secret society, probably Masonic. Note here how he sees a sort of "Islamic Christianity," a Christianity stripped, in his opinion, of superstition, and conjoining with Islam to resist Dajjal ("anti-Christ") not only in possible terms of Zionism, but, more broadly, as against the "tyrannical current born of Naturalist and Materialist philosophy," which could include Darwinism, Marxism and many of the derivatives of so called "materialism," from beneath which Russia and the whole "Eastern bloc" have only recently emerged.

Naturally, many Christians will probably object, but it still stands as an historical example, in writing, of a Muslim who read the ahadith and tried to universally apply them to his era.

Said Nursi said:
T h e A n s w e r : Those whose belief is weak deem it unlikely that what is narrated in a sound Hadith, “Jesus (Upon whom be peace) will come, he will act in accordance with the Shari‘a of Islam, and he will kill the Dajjal,” will come about. But if the reality of this is explained, no reason remains to deem it unlikely. It is as follows: The meaning expressed by this Hadith and those about the Sufyan and the Mahdi is this: at the end of time two currents of irreligion will gain strength. One of them: Under the veil of duplicity, a fearsome individual named the Sufyan will deny the messengership of Muhammad (PBUH), and coming to lead the dissemblers, will try to destroy the Islamic Shari‘a. To oppose him, a luminous individual called Muhammad Mahdi of the Family of the Prophet will come to lead the people of sainthood and perfection, who are bound to the luminous chain of the Family of the Prophet, and he will kill the current of dissemblers, which will be the collective personality of the Sufyan, and scatter it.

The Second Current: A tyrannical current born of Naturalist and Materialist philosophy will gradually become strong and spread at the end of time by means of materialist philosophy, reaching such a degree that it denies God. A savage who does not recognize the king or accept that the officers and soldiers in the army are his soldiers ascribes a sort of kingship and rulership to everyone and to all the soldiers. In just the same way, the members of that current, who deny God, each ascribes dominicality to his soul like a little Nimrod. And the greatest of them, the Dajjal, who will come to lead them, will manifest awesome wonders, a sort of spiritualism and hypnosis; he will go even further, and imagining his tyrannical, superficial rule to be a sort of dominicality, he will proclaim his godhead. It is clear just what foolish buffoonery it is for impotent man, who may be defeated by a fly and cannot create even a fly’s wing, to claim godhead.

At that point when the current appears to be very strong, the religion of true Christianity, which comprises the collective personality of Jesus (Upon whom be peace), will emerge. That is, it will descend from the skies of Divine Mercy. Present Christianity will be purified in the face of that reality; it will cast off superstition and distortion, and unite with the truths of Islam. Christianity will in effect be transformed into a sort of Islam. Following the Qur’an, the collective personality of Christianity will be in the rank of follower, and Islam, in that of leader. True religion will become a mighty force as a result of its joining it. Although defeated before the atheistic current while separate, Christianity and Islam will have the capability to defeat and rout it as a result of their union. Then the person of Jesus (Upon whom be peace), who is present with his human body in the world of the heavens, will come to lead the current of true religion, as, relying on the promise of One Powerful Over All.
Source (link seems inoperative, but this is where I originally found it)
 





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#20
I watched your video, then another in the series about the Djal - would you be expecting the Mahdi to possibly be alive now but perhaps not know his calling? Might he be a political leader or might he come from obscurity?
He is probably alive now but even that's uncertain, things have to get pretty disastrous before he comes. If he is alive now, he doesn't know his calling yet, I wouldn't say a political leader more a unifier of people, he won't be using any political influence or rhetoric , he'll be calling to the oneness of God.

When the anti christ comes, he's going to travel all over and visit pretty much every nation. He's going to convince a lot of people he's God, but the Mahdi and everyone who follows him won't be able to defeat him. This is where Jesus comes in the picture...