No regard...for the desire of women

Haich

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You must be worked up thinking I’m hypocritical..

What’s inflammatory in what I said? I can have that opinion just like you can have any opinion you have. And it doesn’t mean that I’m hateful, angry or venomous about what I’ve said...I think to think that it must bug you to hear what God says is right for us. He did after all make women with the necessary body parts to carry and bear babies...why then wouldn’t I think then that one of our roles on earth is to have children? He made us protective of those children and nurturing for a reason. I also think that when He created women so that man would have a helper and wouldn’t be alone also has meaning as does man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. God want’s us all to be a family unit. I think that the family unit works better when mom is the anchor staying home and nurturing her children. The children are better off and so is the husband. The selflessness of the mother is its own strength.

But, because of feminism people now don’t believe any of that, but believe that its good for women to be selfish and want her own while discounting that it wasn’t for nothing she has her family to take care of. I realize that I have old fashioned ideas but I also think they are worth saying.
You're reducing women to their ability to carry a child and give birth. A man's sperm determines the sex of a child and it is his equipment which makes it possible for us to give birth. I see it as a joint responsibility...

You said our only role is to have children and stay at home and tend to our husbands. Now you're changing your stance and saying it's one of our roles...make your mind up.

Sorry but we are not helpers to men we are individuals who can take care of ourselves. This is why we have so many man-childs as the head of households. Women, do not spoil your sons and get them to do chores and take up responsibilities around the home or else they'll rely on their wives to mother them. One of the reasons some men expect their wives to do everything housewise, is because their mothers did...
Family unit works when the parents work and share the responsibilities of raising a child and maintaining a household.

I don't think feminism is to blame. I am not a feminist and find flaws with the movement however I do agree that first wave feminism (despite being laced with racism) was necessary in the advancement of women's rights and our independence apart from men.

You can hold on to your old school views but I am of the opinion that women are more than their bodies and children will gain more from having educated or working mothers. They will gain more from having mothers which guide them instead of shoving scripture with no context down their throats...

Your argument would make more sense if you yourself were a stay at home mum who educated her kids because then I'd see that your views were upheld and translated via your actions. You are just typing ramblings which you never followed yourself and despite having no experience of being a full time stay at home (as you worked) you think it is better for us?
 






Lisa

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Google women with similar views Lisa. They do. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Well I asked you what exactly you did and you gave no response. You weren’t raising kids, weren’t working... so what were you doing? Considering that you aren’t raising kids and aren’t working NOW I can only imagine that what you were doing then is very similar to what you are doing now... pretty much nothing.
Some do homeschool and some do send the kids to school...I don’t think there is a set in stone way to do it.

I’m sure you can’t imagine what I could have been doing..
 






justjess

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Some do homeschool and some do send the kids to school...I don’t think there is a set in stone way to do it.

I’m sure you can’t imagine what I could have been doing..
Meaning? Keeping a tidy house and cooking doesn’t take all that much time. I do it daily despite working and going to school and raising a toddler
 






Lisa

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You're reducing women to their ability to carry a child and give birth. A man's sperm determines the sex of a child and it is his equipment which makes it possible for us to give birth. I see it as a joint responsibility...

You said our only role is to have children and stay at home and tend to our husbands. Now you're changing your stance and saying it's one of our roles...make your mind up.

Sorry but we are not helpers to men we are individuals who can take care of ourselves. This is why we have so many man-childs as the head of households. Women, do not spoil your sons and get them to do chores and take up responsibilities around the home or else they'll rely on their wives to mother them. One of the reasons some men expect their wives to do everything housewise, is because their mothers did...
Family unit works when the parents work and share the responsibilities of raising a child and maintaining a household.

I don't think feminism is to blame. I am not a feminist and find flaws with the movement however I do agree that first wave feminism (despite being laced with racism) was necessary in the advancement of women's rights and our independence apart from men.

You can hold on to your old school views but I am of the opinion that women are more than their bodies and children will gain more from having educated or working mothers. They will gain more from having mothers which guide them instead of shoving scripture with no context down their throats...

Your argument would make more sense if you yourself were a stay at home mum who educated her kids because then I'd see that your views were upheld and translated via your actions. You are just typing ramblings which you never followed yourself and despite having no experience of being a full time stay at home (as you worked) you think it is better for us?
Sure..without man we can’t conceive. Ya, a joint responsibility where the man marries the woman and they work together to raise their children. The women staying home and the man going out to provide for his family..seems to have worked for quite some time until this modern era.

Sorry..but God made us helper to men..that’s not a bad thing btw.
Genesis‬ ‭2:18, 21-24
Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”

So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man. For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.”
‭‭
I think the household works the best when men and women know how God designed our roles and we stick to that. Its when people go there own ways that makes it bad.

I was a stay at home mum..I don’t see the big deal sending the kids to school. When they got home from school I was there...no one watched them after school and I was with them throughout the summer.

Who says women are just bodies? But they do have a role in this life and its a great role..too bad people want to see it as the worst thing a women could possibly do when its the very best.
 






justjess

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Being a stay at home mom was only ever the norm for wealthier white women lisa. The rest of the female population has always worked.

What exactly did you do with yourself the 6-7 hours a day the kids were being “raised By strangers”? I am a firm believer we all have a responsibility to contribute to the greater good and sitting on ones arse for the bulk of the day does not qualify.
 






Lisa

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Being a stay at home mom was only ever the norm for wealthier white women lisa. The rest of the female population has always worked.

What exactly did you do with yourself the 6-7 hours a day the kids were being “raised By strangers”? I am a firm believer we all have a responsibility to contribute to the greater good and sitting on ones arse for the bulk of the day does not qualify.
I’m not a wealthy white woman...God can make a way when you do it His way.
 






justjess

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I’m not a wealthy white woman...God can make a way when you do it His way.
Historically most women as a group have worked outside the home or doing piecework inside the home because the stay at home mom was primarily a notion of the wealthy. You argued that this was the way it always was, but it was only that way for a small amount of specific women.

You might not be wealthy Lisa, but you are well off enough to afford to stay home which puts you in a privileged position compared to the majority of women who are not able to do so even if they wanted to.
 






Lisa

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Historically most women as a group have worked outside the home or doing piecework inside the home because the stay at home mom was primarily a notion of the wealthy. You argued that this was the way it always was, but it was only that way for a small amount of specific women.

You might not be wealthy Lisa, but you are well off enough to afford to stay home which puts you in a privileged position compared to the majority of women who are not able to do so even if they wanted to.
I’m not going to argue history..just what God says is good.

I wouldn’t say we were well off..but I can say that God has provided for us. I would say that if a woman wanted to stay home and didn’t know how she could do that...prayer is a good start.
 






justjess

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I’m not going to argue history..just what God says is good.

I wouldn’t say we were well off..but I can say that God has provided for us. I would say that if a woman wanted to stay home and didn’t know how she could do that...prayer is a good start.
Your not going to argue it because you know your wrong. You made an incorrect statement and now want to bow out of it “but but but god” you should have just left it at god to begin with instead of trying to bolster your argument with revisionist history.

My husband was in prison when my son was small, I had no choice but to work. What exactly would praying to god have accomplished? Was it going to get my husband released? No. Praying to god doesn’t always show a way and your insistence that it does discounts the experience of very many women and shouts privilege loud and clear.
 






Lisa

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Your not going to argue it because you know your wrong. You made an incorrect statement and now want to bow out of it “but but but god” you should have just left it at god to begin with instead of trying to bolster your argument with revisionist history.

My husband was in prison when my son was small, I had no choice but to work. What exactly would praying to god have accomplished? Was it going to get my husband released? No. Praying to god doesn’t always show a way and your insistence that it does discounts the experience of very many women and shouts privilege loud and clear.
I don’t know what praying would have accomplished...you missed that opportunity.

Praying to God to guide you is the best thing you can do...well after accepting Jesus as savior.
 






Haich

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You cannot wait on a prayer to guide you when you are in hard situations. You have to ride it through and be patient, doing what you can in the process. Prayer may ease your heart and worries but turbulence is a fact of life that no one is exempt from. So when you say 'just pray' it honestly falls on deaf ears because praying and waiting for some sign doesn't resonate in the real world...you pray and keep on going.

I've had friends in a similar situation to Justjess where their partners weren't there temporarily. It happens...you don't sign up for it but tis life. You need to understand lisa that many women are often left to be the head of the household and that is fine...but to argue that is our only calling and to honour our husbands and wait hand on foot on our kids is preposterous.

I know you are passionate about your faith but learn to take things less literally in religion, those women who have to work as their partners aren't there for whatever reason are doing it because they have to. If you had the choice to chill and do nothing (seriously,what did you do for the 6 odd hours your kids were at school??) then you're speaking from a privileged perspective. Don't use your lens to view a world tainted with inequality and hardship. Leave that armchair and look around at the issues facing your local community. You need to culture up and learn that shoving religion down people's throats does nothing...
 






justjess

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I don’t know what praying would have accomplished...you missed that opportunity.

Praying to God to guide you is the best thing you can do...well after accepting Jesus as savior.
Again an assumption I did not pray. Which is what rainerran was trying to point out to you earlier. I prayed Lisa, nothinghappened. My husband stayed in prison and I got a job to take care of my kid. Such is life. Widows, single moms who are abandoned, abused women etc.. they all pray atleast for the most part. Yet god only deemed fit to answer YOUR prayers? Wonder why.. :rolleyes:
 






Lisa

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Again an assumption I did not pray. Which is what rainerran was trying to point out to you earlier. I prayed Lisa, nothinghappened. My husband stayed in prison and I got a job to take care of my kid. Such is life. Widows, single moms who are abandoned, abused women etc.. they all pray atleast for the most part. Yet god only deemed fit to answer YOUR prayers? Wonder why.. :rolleyes:
I don’t know what you want me to say. I’m not God and idk what your prayers were..if He answered them and maybe you didn’t see the answer. I still say that praying to God is the best thing to do in anything life brings your way. Helps to have a relationship with God to hear His answers though.
 






Lisa

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You cannot wait on a prayer to guide you when you are in hard situations. You have to ride it through and be patient, doing what you can in the process. Prayer may ease your heart and worries but turbulence is a fact of life that no one is exempt from. So when you say 'just pray' it honestly falls on deaf ears because praying and waiting for some sign doesn't resonate in the real world...you pray and keep on going.

I've had friends in a similar situation to Justjess where their partners weren't there temporarily. It happens...you don't sign up for it but tis life. You need to understand lisa that many women are often left to be the head of the household and that is fine...but to argue that is our only calling and to honour our husbands and wait hand on foot on our kids is preposterous.

I know you are passionate about your faith but learn to take things less literally in religion, those women who have to work as their partners aren't there for whatever reason are doing it because they have to. If you had the choice to chill and do nothing (seriously,what did you do for the 6 odd hours your kids were at school??) then you're speaking from a privileged perspective. Don't use your lens to view a world tainted with inequality and hardship. Leave that armchair and look around at the issues facing your local community. You need to culture up and learn that shoving religion down people's throats does nothing...
All I know is that God provided for me to stay home with my children..He did it for me so I know He could do it for others....because that’s what He still wants for families. He didn’t stop what He said was good because the world has changed. And the world has changed because it’s gotten more lawless not better. God who is all knowing, powerful..etc surely can help anyone with their problems. But the problem sometimes is we don’t like to do things His way. It sure can challenge a person to follow God and His ways.

I’m not shoving anything down anyone’s throats. You don’t have to read my posts, scroll past if what I say bothers you so much..
 






sickgirl15

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He will show no regard....for the desire of women.


Daniel 11:37
He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, I want to focus though, on the desire of women aspect of the antichrist.
Some people believe that he is gay and doesn’t like women, however, I believe that he doesn’t like women and doesn’t want them to have their desires.


It seems to me that this is happening in this day and age. I think of the feminist movement, that acts as if they are for women and empowering women, but I think it has actually had the opposite effect.
Women are nurturers and we have the internal organs to bear children. That is our calling from God, to have and nurture our children, but with the feminist movement, we are told that that is not our calling, that we can be like men and work out of the home. I think this has had a negative effect on families, where no one is home to raise their kids and the kids are in daycare. Someone else is raising your children now. Granted, women have a lot going for them, and I’m not saying a career is horrible, but raising kids is the greatest privilege and most important job any woman can have. We are talking about our family here....


Then there is the your body your choice stuff...How did it come down to killing your baby being ok or should even be a choice at all? Shouldn’t it be the women’s choice is to have sex knowing it may lead to a pregnancy or not? After that, you have a little life in you and that now trumps any other choice you may want to make. It seems so wrong to say that a woman has the right to kill her unborn kid and its all ok and no one better tell her any different!
What if the man wants to keep the baby, does that matter at all? I guess, though a lot of men want the women to get the abortions. There seems to be a growing rift between marriage and children. To divorce means tragedy for the family and money hardships on both sides....better to not marry and kill off any kids that may come along, I guess.
Then there’s the pc saying that there is no harm to you to abort your baby..well you would have to be pretty hardened to not care that you took a little babies life. But to lessen that realization, people started referring to babies as fetus’. I guess it works, how many babies have been aborted worldwide now?


Then I think about a religion that to me, personifies the verse..islam.
People will get mad over this, but I’m sorry, when you stick women in a cloth prison and try to call it normal...that screams no regard for the desire of women.
What person, let alone a woman wants to be stuck in a cloth prison? How is that modest in any way? Where you can only see a woman’s eyes and many times you can’t even see that. But, women are brainwashed...or is it threatened to wear it and told it is honoring to their god. The worst part is that women fear not wearing one because of the r*pe aspect of islam. Muslim men use r*pe to control women and to project their sins onto their women. If you cover up we won’t be tempted to r*pe you, is a twisted way to blame women for the muslim mans own sins.

I’ve also read about honor killings, that seem to happen to daughters of muslims and is perpetuated by the whole family, though many times just by the father and sons on female family members who don’t measure up to islamic standards. And so I guess the only way to change the female family members behavior is death. Seems pretty extreme to me.


In some cultures there is the female genital mutilation phenomena, though islam seems to be alright with this as well, as many of those cultures are islamic.
FGM is done to young girls and I’ve read it is usually done without any pain meds..but why would you give pain meds when you don’t care about what you are doing to the young girl? The affects of Fgm is an inability to urinate normally and when older an inability to enjoy sex.
Seems to me that this is a total disregard for women, why would women not want to enjoy sex, and who needs a problem with uritnation their whole life?

I also think of the grooming scandals in England where ‘asian’ men groomed local population girls for their own sexual desires and for the desires of other men. Though sex trafficking is ongoing throughout the world, what a sad commentary on the selling of women and girls for sex. Trapped in a world that they were forced into...



There also seems to be another disturbing disregard against girls, the marrying off of children to older men. I don’t know that its regulated just to islam...but it is a reality in islam. Poor girls should not be forced into the role of a wife and what that means, especially regarding sex. No little girl wants to have sex with anyone let an older man.


On the opposite end of the spectrum is the objectifying of women, the saddest part is the women who participate for whatever reasons. Thinking of the women of Hollywood who go to award shows or on the red carpet with barely anything on and that’s empowerment? How that is trickling down-I recently read an article about a young women who thinks nothing of walking around without a top. This is not widely accepted in society, but some people would like it to be, and apparently at music festivals, and places like burning man, it is normal to see. Which means, that it will be gaining momentum in society and normalization. But, then a lot of things have been normalized lately.


“I will put enmity between you and the woman…”. It would seem that this verse has a lot to do with the beginning of the disregard for women. It all started in the beginning, and it just keeps on increasing and having a huge, negative impact on women and everyone really.
Raising a family and having children is NOT the “greatest privilege a woman can have!” I absolutely DISAGREE! Just because we have a uterus and vagina and can give birth does NOT mean that it’s all us women are put on this Earth for! Not all of us should be brainwashed and FORCED to get pregnant, find a “husband,” and exist as UNPAID, (usually unloved, abused, mistreated, undervalued, house SLAVES)! If people who are “pro-life” had their way, ALL of us women would be barefoot and pregnant at age 12 or as soon as we able to menstruate!! Feminism is about women being treated as equals to our male counterparts. An example of this would be: that we get paid the same salary for doing the same job). In America, this is STILL not a reality. Did you forget that women had to FIGHT and DEMAND the “right” to vote, own property, and marry whom we chose to marry? Men of color were given the “right” to vote before Caucasian men “allowed” women to. Interesting, isn’t it? If it weren’t for the brave, revolutionary, strong, angry & fed up women who started the Women’s Liberation Feminist Movement in the 1960’s, you would probably NOT have the “right,” or “freedom” to independently use your own cellphone or computer without male “supervision!” In some heavily, unequally patriarchal countries, women and girls to this day do are not “given” the same “freedoms” as men are. Asia, Africa, Egypt, The Middle East, Turkey, etc. (ad nauseum)! Feminism was created to LIBERATE women and girls, not OPPRESS us even further! The issue is that (some) MEN aware livid that we have demanded liberation to the point that we have it nowadays. And misogynistic, sexist “presidents” like Donald J. Trump want to keep us down even further. He’s “pro-life” which means he thinks YOU and I (even if we goodness forbid get pregnant through r*pe or incest) should be FORCED to carry around our rapist’s baby in our body to term, and give birth to it. Sounds like fun, doesn’t it?! (Sarcasm)!! Us women are not all “baby machines.” I luckily wasn’t brainwashed by my parents into feeling I “needed” to get married, pregnant, and become a housewife, and thank goodness they never pressured me into religion as well. We are all individuals as human beings, and should have the right to decide which lifestyle we can and cannot handle. Pro-life people are basically saying that us women should be FORCED into (essentially) SLAVERY by making us “mothers,” which is a very SERIOUS, LIFELONG JOB. We live in a patriarchy, but I am extremely happy that I was born in America, where I have more “freedoms” than I would in other countries. I genuinely feel for women in other countries like Africa, Asia, Turkey, Egypt, India, The Middle East, China, etc. (ad nauseum)! Google the way women are treated there if you dare...! Just the fact that we have a misogynistic, sexist president such as Donald J. Trump who okays “grabbing women’s pussies” proves that instead of America being a forward-thinking and progressive country like I hoed we were, is, in fact, quite the opposite!!
 






justjess

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For what?
For you to be a stay home mom. And then afterwards for you to be able to sit on your arse all day doing nothing. That was your husband. Not god. You aren’t so incredibly special that god answered your prayers while he allowed those of women actually suffering to go ignored
 






Lisa

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For you to be a stay home mom. And then afterwards for you to be able to sit on your arse all day doing nothing. That was your husband. Not god. You aren’t so incredibly special that god answered your prayers while he allowed those of women actually suffering to go ignored
Well, God provided the means for me to stay home and it was all God who provided for us.

I am a Christian, why wouldn’t God answer my prayer?
 






Helioform

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Last week here in Quebec, Canada there was the head of the FFQ ( Quebec Women's Federation) who tweeted something about how all heterosexual relations were violent, based on religion and was wondering if they should not be abolished. This was the same person who tweeted other things like pushing for the vasectomy of all 18+ years old. WTF? She also said that wearing the hijab is actually "badass" and allied herself with Islam. Never mind the fact that many Muslims routinely beat up their wives and view them as sex objects. And she is not the only one, many feminists are exactly like her.

This 3rd wave feminism is really cancer. The western world has gone insane.
 






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