No regard...for the desire of women

Lisa

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There was no ideal pre-curse. So you are either making up a pre-curse ideal out of thin air or you are suggesting that we still according to the curse as subservient to our husbands.
Sure there was...That doesn’t all go away because we are a ‘modern’ people...Its a sad day when Christians think that this world is a reflection of God good and God’s glory when it goes against what God says is good.
Genesis‬ ‭2:15, 18, 21-24‬ ‭
Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.

Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”

So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.”
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Shouldn’t we be subject to our own husbands..if scripture says so?

Ephesians‬ ‭5:22‬ ‭
Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.​
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Lisa

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Hey Lisa..

If you don’t want the right to vote or work guess what? No one is forcing you to do either. Sit home on your arse doing nothing and spend your time wasting away arguing with people trying to convince them to dial the clock back a couple hundred years so you can feel better about your pathetic excuse of a life. You have the right to do so. Thanks to feminists who fought for your right to have an opinion separate and independant of your husbands.

But please never comment on politics or socio economics again. It’s not your little lady place to do so.

Sincerely,

Women and poor people everywhere
Lol...what’s your problem? I’m not forcing you to change your life to something you would hate to do..just telling you what God’s good is.

Feminists did nothing for women but put them into a world that wasn’t meant for them...and look what its done to families and relationships between men and women...
 






rainerann

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Sure there was...That doesn’t all go away because we are a ‘modern’ people...Its a sad day when Christians think that this world is a reflection of God good and God’s glory when it goes against what God says is good.
Genesis‬ ‭2:15, 18, 21-24‬ ‭
Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.

Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”

So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.”
‭‭​


Shouldn’t we be subject to our own husbands..if scripture says so?

Ephesians‬ ‭5:22‬ ‭
Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.​
‭‭
Right, this is exactly why I said there is no pre curse description. Your suggestion that either verse means to not to work outside the home and to not vote is something you have completely invented in your own imagination.

helping could also mean working and bringing in a second income. That is a very helpful thing to do.

technically I was even working outside the home and homeschooling my kids at one point. Work was mentally stimulating and I enjoyed it. I also enjoyed spending those years with my children.

there are many articles about how mental activity helps prevents dementia. It is healthy to be mentally active and challenged. A lot of the time working outside the home creates a sort of mental exercise women cannot achieve by staying home unless they work to delude themselves that they have something to gain in oppressing their abilities for the sake of staying home.
 






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Lisa

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They cut me while I gave birth... I only found out when the wound got infected': Survivors of female genital mutilation in Kenya tell of trauma and life after horrific tribal procedure
 






Todd

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I don’t think that salvation released us from the curse.
Then what is the point of salvation? Isn't your idea of hell part of the curse?

Oh yeah, I forget your idea of salvation is only for the people who think we need a get our of jail free card to escape from God's wrath. What a joke. The whole point of salvation is to be free from the power of sin, including the curse. You present a very weak gospel, that results in weak Christians with a defeated attitude. The whole point of salvation is to overcome, not make it into heaven without be worthy or giving any effort.
 






Lisa

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Then what is the point of salvation? Isn't your idea of hell part of the curse?

Oh yeah, I forget your idea of salvation is only for the people who think we need a get our of jail free card to escape from God's wrath. What a joke. The whole point of salvation is to be free from the power of sin, including the curse. You present a very weak gospel, that results in weak Christians with a defeated attitude. The whole point of salvation is to overcome, not make it into heaven without be worthy or giving any effort.
If we are released from the curse...then Christian women should have it much easier in childbirth and men should have an easier time at work...but that isn’t true is it?

My idea of hell? It’s what the Bible says hell is about..an eternal punishment..
Matthew‬ ‭25:46‬ ‭
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

‭‭​
The rapture is the escape from God’s wrath..and not before.

God has the power to save..that isn’t a weak gospel. Isn’t it Paul who said when I am weak then I am strong? What defeatist attitude are ya talking about?

We aren’t worthy of eternal life its grace.
 






Todd

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If we are released from the curse...then Christian women should have it much easier in childbirth and men should have an easier time at work...but that isn’t true is it?
For those who actually follow God's commands and live what James taught, that faith without works is dead, it is possible.
My wife loved being preganant and did not find child bearing a curse for her first three children. She did not take maternity leave and was back on her feet the next day.

Her fourth child was a different story. God was trying to deal with my wife about a Jezebel spirit that she had been unkowningly operating in for awhile. When God brought it to her attention initiatlly, she resisted dealing with it. Unfortunatley it was the same time she was preganant for her fourth child. Long story short the Jezebel spirit that was operating in her became a curse and there were serious complications in the preganancy. She ended up being in permanant bed rest for six weeks but Amanda was born premature at 1lbs 4oz. This was back in 1992 when the likelyhood of child being born that premature and actually surviving was almost zero. It ended up being a serious wake up call for my wife and she went through serious deliverance and inner healing to deal with the Jezebel spirit. Although she ended up experiencing the curse of child bearing in that instance, she still overcame it. The point being when we walk in faith AND obedience to God (faith AND works), we can be released from the curse. In the case of her first three children, my wife experienced the blessing of being released from the curse. In the case of the fourth, her disobedience to what God was trying to deal with in her life, caused the curse to come upon her and the baby.

To end the story, Amanda endured 5 surgeries the first year of her life and the doctors said she would never live a normal day either mentally or physically the rest of her life. But miracously the only permanant artifact from her premature birth is the scare from the open heart surgery she had when she was less than a year old. She was an athlete (high school and travel league starting libero) and honor student and college graduate.

Yes as Christians we all still feel the effects of the curse, but if the true gospel of overcoming sin was preached in more churches and people actually lived according to what James taught (faith without works is dead), there would be many more examples of Christians being freed from the curse of sin and living victoriously in the here and now, rather than just wishing and waiting for heaven.

That is the difference between the weak defeated gospel of slavation by grace alone as one time event and the victorious overcoming lifestyle of faith and works where salvation is a process of purification and sanctification.
 






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Lisa

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For those who actually follow God's commands and live what James taught that faith without workd is dead it is possible.
My wife loved being preganant and did not find child bearing a curse for her first three children. She did not take maternity leave and was back on her fee the next day.

Her fourth child was a different story. God was trying to deal with my wife about a Jezebel spirit that she had been unkowningly operating in for awhile. When God brought it to her attention initiatlly, she resisted dealing with it. Unfortunatley it was the same time she was preganant for her fourth child. Long story short the Jezebel spirit that was operating in her became a curse and there were serious complications in the preganancy. She ended up being in permanant bed rest for six weeks but Amanda was born premature at 1lbs 4oz. This was back in 1992 when the likelyhood of child being born that premature and actually surviving was almost zero. It ended up being a serious wake up call for my wife and she went through serious deliverance and inner healing to deal with the Jezebel spirit. Although she ended up experiencing the curse of child bearing in that instance, she still overcame it. The point being when we walk in faith AND obedience to God (faith AND works), we can be released from the curse. In the case of her first three children, my wife experienced the blessing of being released from the curse. In the case of the fourth, her disobedience to what God was trying to deal with in her life, caused the curse to come upon her and the baby.

To end the story, Amanda endured 5 surgeries the first year of her life and the doctors said she would never live a normal day either mentally or physically the rest of her life. But miracously the only permanant artifact from her premature birth is the scare from the open heart surgery she had when she was less than a year old. She was an athlete (high school and travel league starting libero) and honor student and college graduate.

Yes as Christians we all still feel the effects of the curse, but if the true gospel of overcoming sin was preached in more churches and people actually lived according to what James taught (faith without works is dead), there would be many more examples of Christians being freed from the curse of sin and living victoriously in the here and now, rather than just wishing and waiting for heaven.

That is the difference between the weak defeated gospel of slavation by grace alone as one time event and the victorious overcoming lifestyle of faith and works where salvation is a process of purification and sanctification.
The gospel I know is saved by grace through faith and not of works. I think the curse is still valid...I don’t see anywhere in scripture that God said once you follow Jesus the curse will be lifted.
 






Todd

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The gospel I know is saved by grace through faith and not of works. I think the curse is still valid...I don’t see anywhere in scripture that God said once you follow Jesus the curse will be lifted.
The gospel you know is weak and powerless in this lifetime. It's obvious you don't look in scripture very hard for things that contradict your cheap grace gospel.

Duet 28
Jeremiah 17:5
Ezekiel 18:19-20
Psalm 103
Genesis 12:3
Isaiah 54:17

Of course you likely dismiss these scriptures, because most of them require something of us and that contradicts your "just believe, but don't actually do anything" gospel.

And just in case you think I'm ignoring your beloved Apsotle...
Galatians 3:13
Romans 8:2
2 Corinthians 5:17
 






Lisa

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The gospel you know is weak and powerless in this lifetime. It's obvious you don't look in scripture very hard for things that contradict your cheap grace gospel.

Duet 28
Jeremiah 17:5
Ezekiel 18:19-20
Psalm 103
Genesis 12:3
Isaiah 54:17

Of course you likely dismiss these scriptures, because most of them require something of us and that contradicts your "just believe, but don't actually do anything" gospel.

And just in case you think I'm ignoring your beloved Apsotle...
Galatians 3:13
Romans 8:2
2 Corinthians 5:17
Why bring up the OT for the NT offer of grace? So far..fail.

Try..
Galatians‬ ‭3:11-12‬ ‭,14
Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.”​
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
‭‭

Romans‬ ‭8:3-4‬ ‭
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
‭‭​

I’m not sure what 2 Corinthians has to do with the point you were trying to make?
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Todd

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Why bring up the OT for the NT offer of grace? So far..fail.
Isn't the new Covenant better than the old? If there were promises of being released from the curse in the OT it would stand that those promises should also be included in the New, no?

Try..
Galatians‬ ‭3:11-12‬ ‭,14
Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.”​
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
I agree the promise of the holy spirit is through faith. No one receives the promise of the Holy Spirit through works. But the purpose of the Spirit is to remind us of what Jesus said and most of what Jesus said was about following the commandments and works. You know stuff like "love your neighbor as yourself" and all the works Jesus listed in Math 25:31-46.
‭‭
Romans‬ ‭8:3-4‬ ‭
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.​
Wiithout the forgiveness of sin and working of the Spirit in us, we are not able to keep the law. But again, the purpose of the Spirit is so the requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us. In other words it's no longer I that live but the Spirit of Christ that lives within me. If it's no longer my flesh living than keeping the law should not be a problem. The purpose of the Spirit is to remind us what Jesus spoke and then actually walk in it.
‭‭​
I’m not sure what 2 Corinthians has to do with the point you were trying to make?
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The new creation is not subject to the power or the curse of sin? If you are still bound by your flesh and cursed than you are not a new creation and not walking in the Spirit of God. But again salvation is a process, not an instantaneous one time event. ("work out your salvation" Phil 2:12)
 






Lisa

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Isn't the new Covenant better than the old? If there were promises of being released from the curse in the OT it would stand that those promises should also be included in the New, no?
Do any of those verses say that God will remove the original curse from us? Is that why you posted them?

I agree the promise of the holy spirit is through faith. No one receives the promise of the Holy Spirit through works. But the purpose of the Spirit is to remind us of what Jesus said and most of what Jesus said was about following the commandments and works. You know stuff like "love your neighbor as yourself" and all the works Jesus listed in Math 25:31-46.
Jesus was taking to Jews when He talked about following the law..and showing how they can’t live up to the law..no one can. That is what grace is all about. You can’t pick and choose what you want out of the Bible ya know...

Wiithout the forgiveness of sin and working of the Spirit in us, we are not able to keep the law. But again, the purpose of the Spirit is so the requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us. In other words it's no longer I that live but the Spirit of Christ that lives within me. If it's no longer my flesh living than keeping the law should not be a problem. The purpose of the Spirit is to remind us what Jesus spoke and then actually walk in it.
No, Jesus is the one who fulfilled the law for us...its by His fulfilling the law that we are justified. Its by faith that we are being saved.

The new creation is not subject to the power or the curse of sin? If you are still bound by your flesh and cursed than you are not a new creation and not walking in the Spirit of God. But again salvation is a process, not an instantaneous one time event. ("work out your salvation" Phil 2:12)
We are all still under the curse of sin...that won’t go away until we receive our new bodies. We will always have the struggle with sin as we also follow God.

I do agree that salvation is a process...but not through works, but through faith in Jesus and believing correctly...after all a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough....
 






Lisa

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Heaven's going to be a pretty lonely place if that's true LOL!
Revelation says that there will be a multitude there..
Revelation‬ ‭7:9‬ ‭
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands.​
‭‭
And if it is a lonely place..it wouldn’t be so funny would it?
 






Todd

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Revelation says that there will be a multitude there..
Revelation‬ ‭7:9‬ ‭
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands.​
‭‭
And if it is a lonely place..it wouldn’t be so funny would it?
So your idea that believeing correctly most likely isn't important. Otherwise Revelation 7:9 wouldn't be true since no two christians seem to be able to agree on "correct" beliefs.

The LOL wasn't because the idea of heaven being lonely is funny. The LOL is for your non-sensical and irrational beliefs.
 






Lisa

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So your idea that believeing correctly most likely isn't important. Otherwise Revelation 7:9 wouldn't be true since no two christians seem to be able to agree on "correct" beliefs.

The LOL wasn't because the idea of heaven being lonely is funny. The LOL is for your non-sensical and irrational beliefs.
Galatians‬ ‭5:9‬ ‭
A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.​
‭‭
It does seem to help if we are reading the same version of the Bible...however I seem to be the odd man out and don’t subscribe to the kjv...which is probably the reason I see things differently.
 






Todd

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Galatians‬ ‭5:9‬ ‭
A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.​
‭‭
It does seem to help if we are reading the same version of the Bible...however I seem to be the odd man out and don’t subscribe to the kjv...which is probably the reason I see things differently.
I don’t rely on any single version and always research the Greek or Hebrew myself to avoid being influenced by translators bias.
 






Todd

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What about your bias?
I let God deal with my bias on a consistent basis. Hence the reason I left my position of ministry within the institutional church, among other things.

When I stand before God, I'd rather give account for my own bias, then make account for why I trusted the bias of a stranger.
 






SquaredCircle

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While I agree with much of what you said about abortion, the role of women in the Home, etc., I do not think there’s anything particularly “wrong” with how Muslim women dress.
At least they are covering their nakedness, which is more than can be said about most women here in America.
Women in the west scream about not being objectified or taken seriously, but will walk around with little on , yoga pants that define their outer labia , sports bras etc... and get mad at men who look at them . Im far from religious and dont agree with dress codes .
If a women dresses in a sexual manner then she should expect to be objectified !
If men walked around with yoga pants on and their penis’s outlined by the tight fit , women would call the police over a man being a pervert !
Women use their sex like a switch to garner attention or bitch that ugly guys looked their way !
Women control sex , so when they dress with their vagina toes and thongs hanging out of their pants they know exactly what they are doing .
Just dont pay attention to them and they loose their minds .
 






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