Is God competent or incompetent?

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So now you have Satan as co-creator equal to god. Ok.

Regards
DL
More lies.

No one has said that.

Satan still has his super human powers, so he is able to send people evil telepathic information (lies), but Satan is not equal to God.

God allows this and then "uses" Satan (who God is keeping imprisoned here, against his will) for these tests, to see which way you choose to voluntarily go.

So if you choose to follow after Satan, then you are voluntarily choosing of your own free-will to follow Satan into "The Fire".
 






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Serveto

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In terms of the comprehension and settled doctrine of the early church goes, I think John Wayne’s quote speaks volumes:-

View attachment 21251
Usually I not only appreciate but also understand your brevity, but, in this case, you've lost me somewhat. If you want or will to explain how John Wayne's statement more directly relates to what I wrote, I am interested. In the meantime, I will say that, concerning a significant difference between St. Paul and the American cowboy, the cowboy, as far as I know, being more concrete than abstract by nature, never claimed that he spoke in mysteries and that those who were unable to understand him were carnal, or "Earthly," and thus excluded from full comprehension -excluded, that is, unless and until the proper spiritual framework is in place.
 






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More lies.

No one has said that.

Satan still has his super human powers, so he is able to send people evil telepathic information (lies), but Satan is not equal to God.

God allows this and then "uses" Satan (who God is keeping imprisoned here, against his will) for these tests, to see which way you choose to voluntarily go.

So if you choose to follow after Satan, then you are voluntarily choosing of your own free-will to follow Satan into "The Fire".
You are too funny for words.

Take your supernaturalstupid thinking and go use it on those of your low I.Q.

If you can ever give even one small objective piece of evidence for your stupid thinking, I am here for you.

You can win all your arguments from behind your supernatural shield as you can say whatever you like, without any evidence or proof and such statement are called lies.

That is why you talk your B S beliefs instead of the immorality of those beliefs.

Your imaginary world is your safe place.

Regards
DL
 






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You are too funny for words.

Take your supernaturalstupid thinking and go use it on those of your low I.Q.
Having to accept that we are really responsible for all of this is not easy, but the truth is the truth.
If you can ever give even one small objective piece of evidence for your stupid thinking, I am here for you.
For how long? Because time is running out.
You can win all your arguments from behind your supernatural shield as you can say whatever you like, without any evidence or proof and such statement are called lies.
The proof is in the Scriptures and it has been given to us.
That is why you talk your B S beliefs instead of the immorality of those beliefs.

Your imaginary world is your safe place.
Stop seeking to always blame someone else for everything instead of being willing to look long and hard in the mirror until you can finally see the truth.

It is not possible to win against the Truth.



Rules of the Con/Ego: “The formula has infinite depth in its efficacy and application but it’s staggeringly simple and completely consistent.”
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Usually I not only appreciate but also understand your brevity, but, in this case, you've lost me somewhat. If you want or will to explain how John Wayne's statement more directly relates to what I wrote, I am interested. In the meantime, I will say that, concerning a significant difference between St. Paul and the American cowboy, the cowboy, as far as I know, being more concrete than abstract by nature, never claimed that he spoke in mysteries and that those who were unable to understand him were carnal, or "Earthly," and thus excluded from full comprehension -excluded, that is, unless and until the proper spiritual framework is in place.
I didn’t reply right away to your question till I had time to pray about it and ask for wisdom...

I woke up and had a mental picture of a piece of freshly exposed ground. Once the earth was exposed, the things that were in it began to grow up very quickly and soon the patch was covered with both grass and weeds.

I believe that the crucifixion was an unexpected event. It led to the hitting of a “reset” button in terms of Gods plans, yet the seeds of understanding were there and elucidated by the mystery traveller to the confused deciles on the Road to Emmaus. At the same time, seeds of gnosticism also lay in the ground ready to spring forth with alternative explanations.

You rightly identify a competition between the gnostic and “Pauline narrative”. Paul saw this coming too, reported by Luke in Acts 20:-

“28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.”
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Thank you for evidently caring enough about me to pray for wisdom. Your response was as kind as it was wise.
Thanks Serv,

As I was trying to get back to sleep I listened to this on YouTube - it does seem that even within the lists of names of Jesus genealogy there are the seeds of a message for those with ears to hear!

 






justjess

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This is just dumb. The Bible doesn't say that God placed Satan in the garden to specifically set up Eve or tempt her as God never tempts anyone and has no need to do so. Satan was there of his own accord as he usually is :rolleyes:. God placed Eve in the garden because she lived there with her husband.
Umm... job?
 






Allegra

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Umm... job?
Context pls. God tested Job because satan challenged Him. God pretty much 'bragged' about his loyal servant Job and how the satan trying to provoke Him. At the end, He gave permission for satan to tested Job. However, God knew that Job is a faithful servant that's why He was confident about the result. At the end, after all the suffering God blessed Job double portion that he had.

Here's from a perspective of a non-religious person about Job https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-intelligent-divorce/201303/god-why-have-you-made-me-your-target-job-720

When God does something from beginning until the end, none of them is for out of the blue and nothing comes unexpected. There are always things to learn and moral in every story. He knows everything cuz He's the alpha and omega.
 






justjess

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If Satan is so evil why were Satan and god having a friendly betting contest? And why was jobs life so insignificant that god thought “yeah sure what the heck go torture him some”?

And the statement I responded to was “god never tempts anyone” which is clearly false, regardless of whatever reason he had he definately tempted/tested job. Plus I hear Christians say all the time “oh don’t worry about your extremely horrific issue, God’s just testing you” so there’s that.

When I first read the Bible and was absolutely horrified and called my grandma she told me “god evolved alongside mankind” my grandma was the wisest woman I ever knew, take it for what you will. She was also Christian so it wasn’t some weird hippie dippie comment.
 






Allegra

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If Satan is so evil why were Satan and god having a friendly betting contest? And why was jobs life so insignificant that god thought “yeah sure what the heck go torture him some”?

And the statement I responded to was “god never tempts anyone” which is clearly false, regardless of whatever reason he had he definately tempted/tested job. Plus I hear Christians say all the time “oh don’t worry about your extremely horrific issue, God’s just testing you” so there’s that.

When I first read the Bible and was absolutely horrified and called my grandma she told me “god evolved alongside mankind” my grandma was the wisest woman I ever knew, take it for what you will. She was also Christian so it wasn’t some weird hippie dippie comment.
it was NOT a betting contest, but if u see it that way then that's on you.

It looks like God is not just, but God's perspective is infinitely bigger. When God showed Job the universe, He is telling him (and us) that "He is dynamically interacting with a whole universe of complexity when He makes decisions". It is hard to comprehend even Job himself never learned why he had to suffer.

God's wisdom is not our wisdom.

No, I personally don't believe God evolved alongside mankind, from the beginning when He already hinted about Jesus Christ (Genesis 3:15). Foreshadowed it in Abraham and Isaac. But yes, God does test us for various reasons according to His wisdom but it will never a plan to give us harm but plan to prosper us.

As Peter Marshall says "God will not permit any troubles to come upon us, unless He has a specific plan by which a great blessing can come out of difficulty."
 






justjess

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Job didn’t understand why he had to suffer because he didn’t have to suffer. It was a dick measuring contest by two megalomaniacs with him stuck in the middle and punished for his goodness. If you killed my spouse and kids I don’t care how much u bless me with later your an asshole. No amount of blessings makes up for that level of tragedy.

Like I said, take from it what you will. But if you think the god of the ot and the nt honestly resemble each other at all... I think that’s just your religions brainwashing because no one reading that open mindedly without preconceived notions would see it that way.
 






DevaWolf

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If Satan is so evil why were Satan and god having a friendly betting contest?
That's just one of those questions Jess.. One of those I've never seen properly countered. In order for God to be good with all the horrendous things he does in the bible (like the flood, or letting people have incestous relationships, or burning down cities) he needs to have an opponent thats presumably even worse. Only he isn't, Satan is accredited with way less killings and other nasty things in the Bible than God is.

And if God is so opposed to evil, why does he let Satan be king of this world? Why not just throw him into hell already and save everyones soul?
 






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Red Sky at Morning

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I think the view expressed by @justjess is a popular one and certainly one that thinking Christians bear in mind and respond to in their own study.

God’s unfolding plan of salvation, the nature of the battle for the human soul from the very beginning and even the nature and purpose of the Nephilim of Genesis 6 bear on that understanding.

BE87FEE0-C75A-4C38-98E2-D8C5ABB87CF6.jpeg


If you reject Biblical accounts of origins, sin, judgement and redemption and instead reconstruct your understanding of the universe from a “Big Bang and Evolution” cosmology, you might come to the same conclusions as the “Golden Bough”, Jung with his “Archetypes”, Joseph Campbell’s “Hero with a Thousand Faces” etc. I reject these wholeheartedly and would be happy to discuss with anyone why.

“In the beginning, God...” is the most intellectually sound statements you can make!
 






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Allegra

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That's just one of those questions Jess.. One of those I've never seen properly countered. In order for God to be good with all the horrendous things he does in the bible (like the flood, or letting people have incestous relationships, or burning down cities) he needs to have an opponent thats presumably even worse. Only he isn't, Satan is accredited with way less killings and other nasty things in the Bible than God is.

And if God is so opposed to evil, why does he let Satan be king of this world? Why not just throw him into hell already and save everyones soul?
in my opinion, the reason why God allows things happened because of "sin". This will lead to the deeper theology discussions and the study of God's complexity. The thing why Atheists feel like they never get the answers is because they aren't interested to learn deeper in it. They already have their mind set.

 






Allegra

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Job didn’t understand why he had to suffer because he didn’t have to suffer. It was a dick measuring contest by two megalomaniacs with him stuck in the middle and punished for his goodness. If you killed my spouse and kids I don’t care how much u bless me with later your an asshole. No amount of blessings makes up for that level of tragedy.

Like I said, take from it what you will. But if you think the god of the ot and the nt honestly resemble each other at all... I think that’s just your religions brainwashing because no one reading that open mindedly without preconceived notions would see it that way.
If I tell you my opinions you will regard it as "being brainwashed" so no answers from us will satisfy you because you will not read what you wish to read.

When God Himself gave His only Son to die on the cross to bear my sins, I don't want to moan much when difficulty happens. I'm not saying we can not complain, but don't sin and be bitter about it.
 






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