That’s how I saw it. I don’t think it is possible for those who wish to use sin and free will as a weapon to attack God with can possibly concede any logic to what I said as this would injure their argument.I think what he means is that true love and faithfulness is only made possible by the existence of an alternative. Resistance to temptation qualifies loyalty -using your free will to CHOOSE to remain faithful to God despite temptation.
Even I can virtually predict my kids actions and choices in advance without in any way being responsible for what they decide!Free will to CHOOSE an alternative from God's will does exist. But falling to the consequences of this alternative by deviating from His will is the logical conclusion. Saying free will doesn't exist in this situation only works if you believe that God lives in time with us, knowing of our decisions as we make them, as opposed to Him existing outside of our reality.
I don't want to attack God or use any weapon against him, in fact I think he's probably a fine chap if he just created the universe and is neutral about it. It just gets different when he decided to torment for eternity those who didn't ask to come into existence.That’s how I saw it. I don’t think it is possible for those who wish to use sin and free will as a weapon to attack God with can possibly concede any logic to what I said as this would injure their argument.
A weapon to attack god with? Really? I can’t attack a god that doesn’t even exist and I’m entirely convinced the version of god you believe does not and has never existed. Pointing out the reasons why I believe so is not attacking.That’s how I saw it. I don’t think it is possible for those who wish to use sin and free will as a weapon to attack God with can possibly concede any logic to what I said as this would injure their argument.
I noted the John Wayne comment you made earlier. I would observe that the Genetic Fallacy has two edges. Incisive, truthful observations are not invalidated by the poor character of the person making them and poor conclusions are not excused by the qualities of the good person suggesting them.“If this being is omnipotent, then every occurrence, including every human action, every human thought, and every human feeling and aspiration is also His work; how is it possible to think of holding men responsible for their deeds and thoughts before such an almighty Being? In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself. How can this be combined with the goodness and righteousness ascribed to Him?" - Albert Einstein
That’s just it, if God knows past present and future there is no choice. The only logical conclusion if your idea of God is correct ( it is not ) is predestination, which makes him Evil ( he is)If God knew everything from beginning to end and still gave man the ability to make their own choices, how is He responsible for those choices? The alternative would be to take away our free will altogether. To attribute the evil of men to God would be to claim He hasn't given us autonomy. Were that true, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
As Zeno’s paradoxes indicate, it is quite possible to make an argument that is simultaneously logical and fallacious.That’s just it, if God knows past present and future there is no choice. The only logical conclusion if your idea of God is correct ( it is not ) is predestination, which makes him Evil ( he is)
I am not without empathy for people who feel they can’t see a way through to God. Things look different from the other side of the divide @DevaWolf - as I said, I will pray for you ;-)I think this where the line is that divides theists from non theists. It's just something we will never find agreement on, unless one of either of us switches their camp. To me and many others who question religion, this is simply incomprehensible. There is no way to refute God's all knowing, and how we interpret that as individuals creates the dividing line. For me it is one I cannot cross at this time in my life.
I appreciate your genuine kindness. I am here with an open mind, maybe one day our paths will cross. Thank you.