How important is the Image of the Beast?

[Red Sky at Morning]

it isn't so much a 'robot' that walks around ruling people, so much as it's a system that controls all the systems inc ai's and robots.
I mean just look at a basic thing like cookies and how surreal advertising is when you get pop ups that can even contain your info.
Think of the amount of data google holds on us built up from our online search information.
now imagine all of that along with our bank balance and expenditure, shopping habits. not only the what but what when how.
it's pretty scary to imagine how far this can go.
now add to that future technology ie nanotechnology.
Basically the ai system in metal gear is something even i couldn't come up with esp in MGS2 when it malfunctions and reveals who it is.
im still shocked a japanese guy like hideo kojimah, ..could come up with a story like this

I know what you mean - he was very far sighted with the game series!!! I think about the combination of D-Wave, big data, social media and the rush to VR pretend reality on the one hand. I then think about the genome mapping and the ability to extend telomeres, alter defective genes, biohack ourselves and extend our lives on the other...

I then run out of hands, but think about those two strands converging (like the Iron and Clay in the book of Daniel) and a future promising eternal life and unlimited knowledge independent of God.

That contrasted with a miserable death at the hands of those following 'The Beast' for those who won't take 'the Mark' and I think we have a sketch of what the system may look like...

 

[AspiringSoul]

I know what you mean - he was very far sighted with the game series!!! I think about the combination of D-Wave, big data, social media and the rush to VR pretend reality on the one hand. I then think about the genome mapping and the ability to extend telomeres, alter defective genes, biohack ourselves and extend our lives on the other...

I then run out of hands, but think about those two strands converging (like the Iron and Clay in the book of Daniel) and a future promising eternal life and unlimited knowledge independent of God.

That contrasted with a miserable death at the hands of those following 'The Beast' for those who won't take 'the Mark' and I think we have a sketch of what the system may look like...

Even if you disregard the technological side of it, a collective thoughtform of an evil nature would effectively 'posses' most of us simply if we gave into our base desires...but then again who isn't guilty of this on some level? we're all slaves to our flesh on one level or another...how do we get out?
it's easy to talk about fighting/overcoming the ego or even killing the ego...but in reality it's very difficult.
what actually does shock me in the last 10 years is just how social media has become so fking popular in a frankly disgusting way.

it truely is the herd mentality.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Even if you disregard the technological side of it, a collective thoughtform of an evil nature would effectively 'posses' most of us simply if we gave into our base desires...but then again who isn't guilty of this on some level? we're all slaves to our flesh on one level or another...how do we get out?
it's easy to talk about fighting/overcoming the ego or even killing the ego...but in reality it's very difficult.
what actually does shock me in the last 10 years is just how social media has become so fking popular in a frankly disgusting way.

it truely is the herd mentality.

"but then again who isn't guilty of this on some level? we're all slaves to our flesh on one level or another...how do we get out?"

Or as it is put in Romans 7...

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Sorry for the Christian push, but it is what it is. Without 'New Birth', I think the seduction of the system will overpower the world. Who would die rather than embrace something so seductive, even if it meant selling their very souls. How many entertainment puppets sell their souls for so much less.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Thank you. The Prosperity Gospel is rubbish.

Badly.

Just to cover the Prosperity point a bit more... They seem to like the 'Faith' chapter in Hebrews... They don't read as far as those who get sawn in two!

I am not American so I don't deal with this theology quite so much, but I can see the effect it has on those who embrace it. A 'me' centered faith seems to be playing right into Satan's hands!!!

Look at Jonah with Ninevah - God gave him the gourd and took it away. Our character is worth more to God than our comfort...

...but you still need a car ;-)

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Have you been sawn in two? No? Shut your filthy mouth.

I pray God puts 1/3 of Jonah's gourd on your head.

Bye.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean? I guess all I am trying to point out is that following Jesus may lead us to hard times , terrible martydoms (read Foxes Book of Martyrs) or easier ones. Hills and valleys are part of the journey.

I think a concentration on what we can get from the Gospel has been a bad witness to others, particularly from the health and wealth crew. On the other hand I don't buy into poverty being a holy thing of itself. God knows our needs and is able to provide them.

Sometimes we have to wait a bit longer than we would want to for an answer, but as I have looked back I have often learned in the waiting...

I'm not sure quite what has caused you anger in your reply to me, but I pray God looks after you in your circumstances anyway...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I still need a car? Are you mocking me and my desire to have you pray of us?

Have you been sawn in two? No? Shut your filthy mouth.

I pray God puts 1/3 of Jonah's gourd on your head.

Talk is cheap. Can you live your words?

I'm not mocking you at all Scott - sometimes text communication is a bad form as you can't understand the tone someone messages you in. If you assume attack you can usually find it...

I prayed for your car situation this morning and I really sympathise (I need one as well!). I know we have a few different views on some things but I think your heart is in the right place and I pray God blesses you.

Sorry if I unintentionally offended you.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I admit things get lost in translation. I am sorry if I did not understand you. We need a car for obvious reasons. Money is not funneled into our account. We need a car to work. The car is not a luxury but a necessity to work.

I know what you mean! I'm sorry to have upset you and I know when things get tight or break at home I'm like a bear with a sore head!!!!

Had you thought of leasing a car for a bit? I have recently as mine is looking at a massive repair and I don't want to buy one outright this year with all my other expenses?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

We are against leasing because we got tied up last time. We paid so much money and we had little at the end.

We need a used car free and clear or it emancipates more problems for us.

Ok - that's what I'll pray for you...

 

[Thunderian]

My life is affected on a large degree by false ministers who are ignorantly giving people false hope.

Why would the message of false teachers affect your life?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I just watched this one this morning (only a couple of minutes) on the subject of false teachers and I think it is something we should all bear in mind at this point in history...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

It's a good video but the gospel the apostles preached is NOT what modern day pastors are preaching.

This is the everlasting gospel that is preached in the end. Get it? Everlasting? The one that will never change! (because the gospel has been changed by wicked men).

Revelation 14

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

These are the four aspects of the gospel.

Fear God
give glory to him
his judgment
and worship him

These will be clearly defined in the end. It has nothing to do with once saved always saved and it has nothing to do with escaping tribulation. The give him glory aspect has to do with John 15:

John 15

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

This is also the explanation of the parable where some bear 30 and some 60 and some 120. The ones that were pruned (purged) more did bear more fruit. Those who abide in Christ are eventually pruned of God the Father and they bear much fruit. This is the gospel not this once saved always saved crap.

Interesting...

You seem very emphatic in your view here... Would you describe yourself as 'Arminian' in your outlook?

 

[Thunderian]

I am born again (spiritual)

What is the process of being born again?

 

[Thunderian]

Is that passage speaking of people who were once born again and then lost their salvation? Why would Jesus say he NEVER knew them, then?

 

[Tatilina]

I know this is going to probably sound crazy and out to lunch....but when I read this thread, I thought to myself that maybe this image would be like the TV, Computer screen or like a hologram. I'm not a Christian and I've only read the bible once back to back like any other book, but wouldn't it make sense if that were to be the case? They made the image and technically it does speak. I'm just putting it out there.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Is that passage speaking of people who were once born again and then lost their salvation? Why would Jesus say he NEVER knew them, then?

I also notice the passage refers to 'that day'...

If that day is the day of the Great White Throne judgement, everyone in attendance will call Jesus 'Lord' including all unbelievers...

Just couldn't help noticing...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I know this is going to probably sound crazy and out to lunch....but when I read this thread, I thought to myself that maybe this image would be like the TV, Computer screen or like a hologram. I'm not a Christian and I've only read the bible once back to back like any other book, but wouldn't it make sense if that were to be the case? They made the image and technically it does speak. I'm just putting it out there.

I'm sure there will be a technology component... I can't help but think that what will be offered will be a blend of computing and altered biology (look at the aspirations of transhumanists on 2045.com)

These guys are reaching for immortality without repentance, rather like the idea of eating the fruit of the "tree of knowledge", then eating from the "tree of life" (I know how so many like Madonna, Bowie etc focussed on this one). What if the beast system offered that 'tree of life' to those taking 'The Mark'.

What if the image meaning of "Image the Beast" suddenly became clear at the moment human consciousness passed from the Man of Sin (Antichrist) when he receives a fatal wound into an artificial body with a quantum computer mind, literally escaping mortality...

Just musings but it might make a good sci-fi even if my guesses were wrong ;-)

You can't technically lose your salvation. They go to hell because they are liars. The said they would make Jesus their Lord and they go back on their word. You don't become born again unless you confess and make Jesus your Lord. It's that simple. These are goats, not sheep. You should do a study between the difference between goats and sheep. Very eye opening.

Because you don't understand the Bible the way you believe you do. You need to fear God and grab your bible go into your prayer closet fasting and get close to God. Man and his teachings will always dissuade you.

Jesus died for out sins. That was his job. He now sits at the right had of God the Father interceding for us. It is not Jesus Christ job to draw the believer. That is the Fathers job.

John 6:44-45, 65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Jesus knows the believer once the believer submits to the Holy Spirit within the believer (who testifies of Christ). This is a huge process and it takes years for the person to abide in Jesus and basically, sit and Jesus' feet. Unless you do that for years Jesus won't know you. Just like an apple tree doesn't grow apples in one day we cannot bear fruits in Christ in once day. Jesus only knows us once we begin to bear fruits in his name.

John 15:1-2

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

In my life personally it took me about 4 years to abide in Christ to the extent I was bearing fruit in Christ. The Father will not even prune you until he sees you are bearing fruit in Christ.

It took 4 years for me to begin to bear fruit in Christ.
It took about 7 years until the Father saw I was bearing fruit in Christ and he began to prune me.

So there you have it. Until you abide in Christ for about 4 years and begin to bear fruit Christ won't know you.

Most trees in nature don't begin bearing fruit until about year 5.

Also please stop testing me. God has revealed what you are attempting to do in this thread and I will report you for derailing threads from their true topics.

The word for taketh away is 'Airo' in Greek and can also be translated 'lifted up' depending on context... This changes the implications of the passage from rejection of the branches to lifting up and restoring the life in a flat, lifeless branch.

Sometimes we all need the Lord to lift us back up again...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You can't read that chapter in context and reason that way. The same branches that are "taken away" are then burned in verse 6.

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Change in number in one sentence indicated change in subject...

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

The believer dries up outside the flow of the life of Jesus flowing through him. His works are gathered up and burned (i'm sure you are familiar with the concept of the works of straw and stubble, silver and gold)

Check it out better explained than I can if you wish to...

God bless

 

[Thunderian]

Also please stop testing me. God has revealed what you are attempting to do in this thread and I will report you for derailing threads from their true topics.

Even though you brought up this "once saved, always saved crap" and mentioned me by name, it's me that's derrailing the thread?

I'm just asking questions on the topics that you are introducing, brother.

 

[Thunderian]

I have wasted more time trying to convince people and I have learned it's not the method the Lord blesses.

If you don't want people to question you, you shouldn't say such questionable things.

If convincing people of the truth is a waste of time, why are you here at all? I told you before that putting your teachings in a glass case for us all to admire but not question isn't really a format that works on message boards or in Christianity. You seem really worried about the effect examination has on your belief system, and that should concern you.

Something else to consider, true teachers of the word of God are happy to entertain all respectful questions. False teachers, however, treat reasonable questions with anger and scorn.

 

[Lady]

Stop it Red Sky. I am losing respect for you after every post. You are clearly twisting the scripture and forcing it to mean what you want it to mean. Classic scripture twisting. No one can read that chapter in context and this it means what you are saying. You're wrong.

The interpretation I explained is the correct interpretation of John 15.

Please relax, Scott. You are posting on a forum of (mostly) adults. It is a give and take format not lecture-style.
We all have something to offer each other as far as bible topics go.
Prov. 11:14
Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellers there is safety.