Does God have a Church?

[HansConsciousness]

Q. Does God have a Church?
A. Human Beings

 

[phipps]

Q. Does God have a Church?
A. Human Beings

No, not according to the Bible, God's message to us. Not all human beings are part of God's church. Only those who choose to obey and submit to Him fully.

 

[HansConsciousness]

No, not according to the Bible, God's message to us. Not all human beings are part of God's church. Only those who choose to obey and submit to Him fully.

Awrite.

So my hon'ble fellow human being, am I comprehending this correctly that your good and kind self is advising me to disregard Corinthians 3:16 & Luke 17:21 ?

 

[phipps]

Awrite.

So my hon'ble fellow human being, am I comprehending this correctly that your good and kind self is advising me to disregard Corinthians 3:16 & Luke 17:21 ?

I would never advise anyone to disregard the Bible. I would advise them not to misinterpret or take the Word of God out of context which is what you're doing I'm afraid.

1 Corinthians 3 is a letter Paul wrote to the Corinthian church (people who had chosen to be submit to Christ) because it was having problems and there was division in it. So Paul was reminding and instructing them according to the Bible. In verse 9 he wrote, "For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building." This indicates he was talking to fellow Christians.

When he says, "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" in verse 16, he means the church as well as our bodies are supposed to be sacred temples of God for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Then he says in verse 17, "If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are." We are told that those who destroy or defile those things will also be destroyed by God in turn. How do do we defile? By sinning. So obviously in order to have to have the Spirit dwell in us we have to submit to God. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in anyone when they've not made the choice to do so.

Luke 17:21 says, "nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Can the kingdom of God dwell in people who wilfully sin, who do not obey God and accept Christ as their personal Saviour? Only those who have accepted Christ into their heart will let Him reign in their heart. Jesus will be their King and rule over everything they do.

 

[HansConsciousness]

I would never advise anyone to disregard the Bible. I would advise them not to misinterpret or take the Word of God out of context which is what you're doing I'm afraid.

1 Corinthians 3 is a letter Paul wrote to the Corinthian church (people who had chosen to be submit to Christ) because it was having problems and there was division in it. So Paul was reminding and instructing them according to the Bible. In verse 9 he wrote, "For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building." This indicates he was talking to fellow Christians.

When he says, "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" in verse 16, he means the church as well as our bodies are supposed to be sacred temples of God for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Then he says in verse 17, "If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are." We are told that those who destroy or defile those things will also be destroyed by God in turn. How do do we defile? By sinning. So obviously in order to have to have the Spirit dwell in us we have to submit to God. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in anyone when they've not made the choice to do so.

Luke 17:21 says, "nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Can the kingdom of God dwell in people who wilfully sin, who do not obey God and accept Christ as their personal Saviour? Only those who have accepted Christ into their heart will let Him reign in their heart. Jesus will be their King and rule over everything they do.

When I try to answer "Does God have a Church?" with - Yes, Human Beings - it goes hand in hand with TheCreator being OmniPresent.

But hon'ble fellow human being, as per your advise, I deduce that I was incorrect all along and TheCreator isn't really OmniPresent after all, I am afraid.

 

[elsbet]

Awrite.

So my hon'ble fellow human being, am I comprehending this correctly that your good and kind self is advising me to disregard Corinthians 3:16 & Luke 17:21 ?

The meaning is twofold in this context.

Neither shall they say,​

Lo here! or, lo there!​

for, behold,​

the kingdom of God is within you.​

Luke 17:21​

Also translated as--

for behold,​

the Kingdom of God is among you.​

-or-​

... is in your midst.​

​

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees-- part of the religious elite, if you will, at the time. They believed observance of the Law made them holy-- which it didn't (and never will).

The point Jesus was making is the Kingdom of God (their long awaited Messiah) was standing in front of them, and they didn't even recognize Him. With the exception of Nicodemus, they were hypocrites. They "neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness." v. 23

Spoiler: Commentary

From the commentaries:

This is capable of two interpretations.

1. The reign of God is "in the heart." It does not come with pomp and splendor, like the reign of temporal kings, merely to control the external "actions" and strike the senses of people with awe, but it reigns in the heart by the law of God; it sets up its dominion over the passions, and brings every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.

2. "That kingdom will be marked out on no map, for, lo, it is even now in your midst."

It may be asked - How "in your midst"? Scarcely not... in your hearts. The kingdom of God could not be said to be in the hearts of those Pharisees to whom the Master was especially directing his words of reply here.

It should be rather understood in the midst of your ranks..."

When I said (in the other thread) I believe the Kingdom of God comes from without-- I mean I don't believe it is inherent in everyone at birth. I believe it is a choice, available to whomever believes in the saving grace of Christ-- at which point he or she will will be indwelt with His spirit--> the Kingdom of God is within you.
-

 

[phipps]

@HansConsciousness

When I try to answer "Does God have a Church?" with - Yes, Human Beings - it goes hand in hand with TheCreator being OmniPresent.

According to the Bible the Lord being omnipresent means that God is everywhere and there is no place where His presence does not reach. There is no place where we can flee from His presence, nowhere that His power is not at work. God is not limited by time and space as we are. We can be in only one place at a time. But He can be everywhere at the same time. This concept is beyond our comprehension as are many things about God!

God has given us all assurance in His Word that He is ever present with us but we have to allow Him into our lives, our hearts by our own free will that He created us with. God is love. Love does not force. To His followers (those who chose/choose to allow Him into their hearts), Jesus said, "Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world" (Matthew 28:20).

Now of course God wants us all to be saved and be with Him forever and ever. 1 Timothy 2:-4 says, "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." So God does everything He can to reach all human beings by teaching, warning us etc through His people and Word. He tries to convict us all through the Holy Spirit to choose Him but ultimately its up to us if we listen to the Holy Spirit or not. The Bible tells us, “And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all" (Luke 17:26-27). God gave an important message to Noah, and for 120 years he warned the people that their world was coming to an end. The only way to be saved was to believe God’s message and come into the ark. Every person had the opportunity to accept the message and be saved. Those who rejected it were lost in the flood. Only eight people survived. Just before Jesus comes back the second time for His people, every person on earth will have the opportunity to decide whether they will be saved or lost, whether they will receive the seal of God or the mark of the beast (Revelation 7:2,3; 9:4; 13:16-18). There are only two choices, to follow God, or to follow the beast.

Only those who listen, accept Jesus as their Saviour, accept His revealed truth in the Bible and choose to follow Him just as “Noah walked with God; … according to all that God commanded him, so he did” (Genesis 6:9, 22), will be saved. Those who don't choose God will go to hell and lose their lives eternally. That is the truth of the Bible (God's inspired Word).

But hon'ble fellow human being, as per your advise, I deduce that I was incorrect all along and TheCreator isn't really OmniPresent after all, I am afraid.

Am I humble or horrible? I'm not sure what you're saying here. Like you've done with the two verses above you've misunderstood what God being omnipresent means according to His Word.

 

[HansConsciousness]

I would never advise anyone to disregard the Bible. I would advise them not to misinterpret or take the Word of God out of context which is what you're doing I'm afraid.

1 Corinthians 3 is a letter Paul wrote to the Corinthian church (people who had chosen to be submit to Christ) because it was having problems and there was division in it. So Paul was reminding and instructing them according to the Bible. In verse 9 he wrote, "For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building." This indicates he was talking to fellow Christians.

When he says, "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" in verse 16, he means the church as well as our bodies are supposed to be sacred temples of God for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Then he says in verse 17, "If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are." We are told that those who destroy or defile those things will also be destroyed by God in turn. How do do we defile? By sinning. So obviously in order to have to have the Spirit dwell in us we have to submit to God. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in anyone when they've not made the choice to do so.

Luke 17:21 says, "nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Can the kingdom of God dwell in people who wilfully sin, who do not obey God and accept Christ as their personal Saviour? Only those who have accepted Christ into their heart will let Him reign in their heart. Jesus will be their King and rule over everything they do.

Only should you allow me to, with your kind permission, Madame/Sire let us rationally, break it down a further...

.. I would advise them not to misinterpret or take the Word of God out of context which is what you're doing I'm afraid.

What support/evidence do we both have? that:-
I am not misinterpreting the verse over you
Or
You are not misinterpreting the verse over me ?

The point I want to make is that, I believe I am literate enough to understand Christ's direct unequivocal statement(s) addressed to me, in fact, to each human being on the face of Earth, individually. And hence are other educated human beings able to peruse and comprehend by themselves, individually, IMO. But, why do a few human beings among us wish to act as a contractor or mediator between Christ and humanity that they feel the need to explain and interpret what Christ unequivocally already said himself (that stands already as Timeless and Universal) ? Quite a few human beings do this, without even in possession of a certified seal from Jesus Christ himself. Why do they (few human beings) among us do that? Do they do this deliberately or inadvertently, (is I wish to know)?

Christ unequivocally stated,
Kingdom of God is within YOU.

End of discussion for me. I won't even be trying to interpret Christ's teaching to suit my mind's understanding / comprehension. I know already that my mind's understanding / comprehension is already at such stoop low that for quite a good chunk of calender years it used to think that Lord/TheCreator is an old man/male with a long beard sitting in between the clouds!! All the few above-mentioned human beings that tell me "Heaven above, Heaven above, Heaven above.." I wish to tell them, "Darn, would you cut it already? Even putting lies out googolplex times won't convert those lies into a Truth! Will it?"

..
in verse 16, he means the church as well as our bodies are supposed to be sacred temples of God for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
..

Bodies

But again, the good 'ol interpretation strikes back.
Where does Paul's unequivocal verse says / mentions about the (building) Church ?
Lol. Human mind at it again. The mind so thrives to make even the simplest of things, unnecessarily complicated. =]

We are told that those who destroy or defile those things will also be destroyed by God in turn. How do do we defile? By sinning.

First off, we can agree to disagree, but in my understanding TheCreator dwells in the Hearts of ALL living beings. So, the term things goes outta window for me. Destroying or Defiling Human Beings (i.e. Human Bodies i.e. real Temples / Churches) only remains here in this context that we are talking (in my understanding).

Destroying a human being? -- Kill thy neighbour akin to kill the whole humanity. Appalling. Preposterous.
But, now dare ask
Q. Why the world renowned paedophiles have setup armies, police and the whole military industrial complex?
A. To destroy the Temples/Churches of TheCreator i.e. Human Beings.
So, are we still not sure why such current predicament of this tiny blue floating ball? [=

Defiling a human being? -- Sinning, yes. But I would also like to add that the agenda(s) at play are forcefully shoved down gullible human being's throats to dwindle down entire Humanity - morally and ethically. These agendas are unequivocal and rampant. I don't find the need to elaborate the same. Few of us human beings joined this forum not out of some TVCF advert slipped down our house's main door(s) afterall.

So obviously in order to have to have the Spirit dwell in us we have to submit to God. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in anyone when they've not made the choice to do so.

Where does it says that? Kindly mention a Direct Straight & Unequivocal verse! - No interpretation. Kindly quote for me, I humbly request your kind self.
I want to correct myself.


Corinthians 3:16 -
Do you not know that TheSpirit dwells in you?

As far as I am able to understand, it doesn't say that first I have to do this, do that, be a monk, yada yada yada. . and then TheSpirit will dwell within me!

It says what it says. There itself! Unequivocal. "Do you not know TheSpirit dwells in YOU?"

And to add further there's,
James 2:26 - ... (human) body without TheSpirit is dead!

Please, again, no interpretation needed. Especially not by anyone without a certified seal from Christ himself. All educated human beings can peruse and make up their mind themselves, individually.
Please I beg you, I BEG, do not take this personally. We both are only talking/discussing here. As far as I know atleast I am doing that (talking / discussing) and pleading your kind selves the same.

Can the kingdom of God dwell in people who wilfully sin, who do not obey God and accept Christ as their personal Saviour?

Finally, common ground somewhere at last among us both, Madame/Sire!

You are definitely correct Madame/Sire via your below post/commentary and I concur to you when you mentioned that The Human Mind can never comprehend TheOmniScient TheOmniPresent TheOmniPotent.

...

@HansConsciousness


According to the Bible the Lord being omnipresent means that God is everywhere and there is no place where His presence does not reach. There is no place where we can flee from His presence, nowhere that His power is not at work. God is not limited by time and space as we are. We can be in only one place at a time. But He can be everywhere at the same time. This concept is beyond our comprehension as are many things about God!

Last but not least, kind Madame/Sire..
hon'ble = Honourable!

 

[phipps]

@HansConsciousness,

Only should you allow me to, with your kind permission, Madame/Sire let us rationally, break it down a further...



What support/evidence do we both have? that:-
I am not misinterpreting the verse over you
Or
You are not misinterpreting the verse over me ?

The point I want to make is that, I believe I am literate enough to understand Christ's direct unequivocal statement(s) addressed to me, in fact, to each human being on the face of Earth, individually. And hence are other educated human beings able to peruse and comprehend by themselves, individually, IMO. But, why do a few human beings among us wish to act as a contractor or mediator between Christ and humanity that they feel the need to explain and interpret what Christ unequivocally already said himself (that stands already as Timeless and Universal) ? Quite a few human beings do this, without even in possession of a certified seal from Jesus Christ himself. Why do they (few human beings) among us do that? Do they do this deliberately or inadvertently, (is I wish to know)?

Christ unequivocally stated,
Kingdom of God is within YOU.

End of discussion for me. I won't even be trying to interpret Christ's teaching to suit my mind's understanding / comprehension. I know already that my mind's understanding / comprehension is already at such stoop low that for quite a good chunk of calender years it used to think that Lord/TheCreator is an old man/male with a long beard sitting in between the clouds!! All the few above-mentioned human beings that tell me "Heaven above, Heaven above, Heaven above.." I wish to tell them, "Darn, would you cut it already? Even putting lies out googolplex times won't convert those lies into a Truth! Will it?"

When the Bible says, "nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21), it means the kingdom of God begins in the heart. Look not here or there for manifestations of earthly power to mark its coming. There is a physical kingdom of God where the saints will be with Christ forever, then there is the kingdom of God in our hearts which we have when we come to Christ, surrender and grow in Him until He returns the second time. You have to view this in context of the entire Bible not taking one verse here and there because that is what is leading you to misunderstand what the Bible means on this subject. Google or go to a thesaurus and study everything the Bible has to say about the kingdom of God and you will see that its not what you're saying. If its the end of discussion for you, you are wrong in your interpretation I'm afraid. The kingdom of God dwells in only those who accept Christ and they are the ones Christ will be coming back for the second time and will be with Him forever.

Bodies

But again, the good 'ol interpretation strikes back.
Where does Paul's unequivocal verse says / mentions about the (building) Church ?
Lol. Human mind at it again. The mind so thrives to make even the simplest of things, unnecessarily complicated. =]

Remember in that chapter Paul is addressing the Corinthian church, the Church as a whole is a temple of God as are we individually.

First off, we can agree to disagree, but in my understanding TheCreator dwells in the Hearts of ALL living beings. So, the term things goes outta window for me. Destroying or Defiling Human Beings (i.e. Human Bodies i.e. real Temples / Churches) only remains here in this context that we are talking (in my understanding).

Your understanding that God dwells in all of us human beings is wrong and not according to His Word as I've pointed out already. God is not going to dwell in the heart of a paedophile, murderer, liar, thief etc if they've not repented of their sins, accepted Christ as their personal Saviour and obey His precepts. Here are a few passages from the Bible to prove that truth:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." Notice that sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God (the physical place) because as I said above the kingdom of God is not in them. If it was in them they would not be all those things and more as the above verses mention.

Ezekiel 18:21, 32, "But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”

All throughout the New Testament Jesus and the apostles tell us to repent and be baptised and walk with Christ. Jesus lived a life of obedience and told us to do the same, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love" (John 5:10). These are the people who God dwells in.

I will go further and add that God actually can and does remove His spirit from people who continuously reject Him too. We have the example of king Saul. He was God's person but he rejected God over and over until God abandoned him because king Saul had clearly rejected God and God was not going to force Himself on him. God stopped communicating with Saul that he went to a medium which he knew was wrong and banned by God. Saul killed himself in the end in battle. God did not dwell in the heart of Saul at the end.

God even warns us not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. It is the unforgivable sin, "Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men” (Matthew 12:31). What is “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit”? It is the persistent rejection of the pleadings of the Holy Spirit through new light and conviction. If we refuse to accept the new light, even the light that we have will go out, and we will be left in darkness. The darkness that comes from a persistent and final refusal to follow light is the result of rejecting the Spirit, and it leaves us without hope.

Destroying a human being? -- Kill thy neighbour akin to kill the whole humanity. Appalling. Preposterous.
But, now dare ask
Q. Why the world renowned paedophiles have setup armies, police and the whole military industrial complex?
A. To destroy the Temples/Churches of TheCreator i.e. Human Beings.
So, are we still not sure why such current predicament of this tiny blue floating ball? [=


Defiling a human being? -- Sinning, yes. But I would also like to add that the agenda(s) at play are forcefully shoved down gullible human being's throats to dwindle down entire Humanity - morally and ethically. These agendas are unequivocal and rampant. I don't find the need to elaborate the same. Few of us human beings joined this forum not out of some TVCF advert slipped down our house's main door(s) afterall.

As I've posted in this whole thread, the church of God is made up of God's people. Jesus counts it as one church that He is the head of (Ephesians 1:22-23; 4:4). Satan and his agents are working to destroy God's people as a whole but also individual Christians who belong to the true church of God. The church being the temple of God does not mean we are not temples of God individually. We have to look after both. One does not take away the truth of the other.

Let me add, Jesus prophesied that the temple would be destroyed and it inspired the most intense rejection of His teachings by many Jews (Matthew 24:1-2). In John 2:19, Jesus says, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” Of course, Jesus is speaking of rebuilding a temple—not of stone and nails, but of living stones (1 Peter 2:5). Yet many refused to grasp this teaching (John 2:20- 21). They even mocked Jesus on the cross regarding His prophecy (Matthew 27:40).

Where does it says that? Kindly mention a Direct Straight & Unequivocal verse! - No interpretation. Kindly quote for me, I humbly request your kind self.

All over the Bible from Genesis to Revelation but let me quote a few passages from the book of Acts. The book of Acts is a book about the Holy Spirit.
I'm sure you know about Pentecost day in chapter 2 when the disciples are filled with the Holy Spirit. The Bible says, "When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:1-4). They were in one accord in their beliefs as Christians.

Acts 4:31, “And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.” These were Christians who accepted Christ then they received the Holy Spirit.

I want to correct myself.

Corinthians 3:16 -
Do you not know that TheSpirit dwells in you?

As far as I am able to understand, it doesn't say that first I have to do this, do that, be a monk, yada yada yada. . and then TheSpirit will dwell within me!

First of all I showed you actual proof from the Bible that Paul was addressing the Corinthian church. He was addressing fellow Christians (people who had accepted Christ as their Saviour, not just any human beings) who had a few problems in their church. Read the whole of 1 Corinthians 3 (its a short chapter) and you will see that. They were not perfect obviously hence the divisions in the church. God does not wait for us to be perfect to dwell in us, but we have to accept Him and His precepts and be willing to obey Him then He dwells in us and gives us the power to do what He asks of us. We give Him permission through our choices and He works with us to do His will.

When we come to Christ, we come as babies in Christ. Not knowing much. Then as we continue a relationship with Him we grow and won't stop growing until He returns. We accept as Christians that we are sinners and need a Saviour but it doesn't mean we stop sinning all at once. Its a gradual process. We will fall but the Bible tells us on our Christian journey, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). But as we grow in Christ we sin less and less. Defiling God's temple applies to both church and us as individuals.

For example I have a thread in this forum about health. The Bible tells us what we can and cannot eat because God wants us to be as healthy as we can be in this sinful world. I use 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 and:

1 Corinthians 6:19-20, "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s."

1 Corinthians 10:31, "Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."

These verses do not cancel out that the church of God is also His temple. Both the true church and us as individuals who've accepted Christ are God's temple.

It says what it says. There itself! Unequivocal. "Do you not know TheSpirit dwells in YOU?"

Yes the Spirit dwells is us but as Paul was addressing the Corinthian church, he meant the spirit dwells in them as a church too. Use the context of the entire Bible and not one off verses here and there. We are supposed to compare scripture with scripture.

And to add further there's,
James 2:26 - ... (human) body without TheSpirit is dead!

James was talking about the physical body without the breath of God. We cannot live apart from the breath of life or spirit as the Bible calls it in some places. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says, "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.” The body turns to dust again, and the spirit goes back to God, who gave it. The spirit (breath) of every person who dies goes back to God at death. "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:26). James was saying a human being (a living soul) needs both the physical body and breath of life to live as faith and works work together. You cannot separate one from another and expect them to work.

Please, again, no interpretation needed. Especially not by anyone without a certified seal from Christ himself. All educated human beings can peruse and make up their mind themselves, individually.

Clearly interpretation is needed (the right kind based on the Bible) because the Bible harmonises on every subject. We need to study the whole subject from the entire Bible to understand what God is saying to us on any subject. We cannot put our own twists on God's word though, we have to let the Bible explain itself and to do that we need to study it deeply.

Please I beg you, I BEG, do not take this personally. We both are only talking/discussing here. As far as I know atleast I am doing that (talking / discussing) and pleading your kind selves the same.

I'm not taking this personally don't worry. I hope you don't take this personally either.

Finally, common ground somewhere at last among us both, Madame/Sire!

You are definitely correct Madame/Sire via your below post/commentary and I concur to you when you mentioned that The Human Mind can never comprehend TheOmniScient TheOmniPresent TheOmniPotent.

At least we agree on this. There is a lot about God that we don't know and will not fully comprehend until Jesus comes and we make it to His kingdom.

Last but not least, kind Madame/Sire..
hon'ble = Honourable!

I see.

God bless.

 

[HansConsciousness]

The meaning is twofold in this context.

Neither shall they say,​

Lo here! or, lo there!​

for, behold,​

the kingdom of God is within you.​

Luke 17:21​

Also translated as--

for behold,​

the Kingdom of God is among you.​

-or-​

... is in your midst.​

​

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees-- part of the religious elite, if you will, at the time. They believed observance of the Law made them holy-- which it didn't (and never will).

The point Jesus was making is the Kingdom of God (their long awaited Messiah) was standing in front of them, and they didn't even recognize Him. With the exception of Nicodemus, they were hypocrites. They "neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness." v. 23

Spoiler: Commentary

From the commentaries:

This is capable of two interpretations.

1. The reign of God is "in the heart." It does not come with pomp and splendor, like the reign of temporal kings, merely to control the external "actions" and strike the senses of people with awe, but it reigns in the heart by the law of God; it sets up its dominion over the passions, and brings every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.

2. "That kingdom will be marked out on no map, for, lo, it is even now in your midst."

It may be asked - How "in your midst"? Scarcely not... in your hearts. The kingdom of God could not be said to be in the hearts of those Pharisees to whom the Master was especially directing his words of reply here.

It should be rather understood in the midst of your ranks..."

When I said (in the other thread) I believe the Kingdom of God comes from without-- I mean I don't believe it is inherent in everyone at birth. I believe it is a choice, available to whomever believes in the saving grace of Christ-- at which point he or she will will be indwelt with His spirit--> the Kingdom of God is within you.
-

Mademoiselle, I hope you realise that whole of the language and comprehension goes in vain should we begin to equate :-

Within = Midst = Among = Infront

Who are we kidding?

We both know,
Within ≈ Midst ≠ Among ≠≠ Infront

What else is continuously bringing each breath(s) and beating this Heart (albeit only for temporary 80~100 years) ?
Do we really now dare to imagine even a single atom can / will survive, even for a pico second, without the presence of TheOmniPresent? We really going to go that road and set such a precedent now?

Imho,
1.) Dwelling is TheAlmighty already made His/It's Throne within (0years = first breath = flesh born = baby from mother's water) [but the quintessential question - will this alive being eventually wakeup to (second birth; reborn = awake in/with Spirit = can see the farce of existence) that Throne within whilst 80~100years?]
2.) Inheriting is what will supposedly happen post 80~100 years!

§Can we dare to give it a practical approach? No?
1.) Because body, teeth, tongue, skin, organs, limbs, face, mouth, cheeks, head, brain, liver etc. all stays here, on planet Earth, either inside the casket or burnt to ashes!
2.) Because the Earth's core is all matter, soil, rocks and iron. Hell?
3.) Because the Earth keeps rotating and revolving and there are merely dry or wet clouds up there (no airplane or a blimp ever bumped into the male bearded person above Earth, yet.. and there had been a plethora of flying) and eventually the space - abyss. Heaven?

Nope. We ain't practical. And we fancy it that way(=
Because fiction is fascinating and fact is bland / boring!

 

[Vision]

The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The entire earth has been made a place of prayer, except for graveyards and washrooms.” Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 317

 

[phipps]

The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The entire earth has been made a place of prayer, except for graveyards and washrooms.” Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 317

As Christians we can pray anywhere at anytime including in graveyards and washrooms. God hears us wherever we are. However we should always be respectful towards God.

 

[Daze]

As Christians we can pray anywhere including in graveyards and washrooms. God hears us wherever we are.

I think you missed the point. Its not about God hearing or seeing you. Of course he hears and sees everything. Whether its a black ant crawling on a black stone in the middle of the night or those thoughts running through your head that you think only you are privy to.

We don't pray in graveyards because some people actually worship the graves. Muslims don't want to be confused to be with those people so its forbidden. For the exact same reasons we don't pray when the sun is at its peak, rising or setting. So we are not confused with those who worship the sun.

Also we don't pray in bathrooms because that's where the djinn gather. Not to mention it being a generally unclean place.

While I've never seen a Christian pray in either location. No ones stopping you because you're not a Muslim. None the less Vision is correct in that the entire planet has been made a place for prayer.

 

[phipps]

Judgement in heaven before Jesus returns the second time.

This judgement is called the pre-advent or the investigative judgement. Its a very important subject that God's people, His church must understand.

This investigative judgment must take place before Jesus comes, for at His second coming Jesus will come with His reward, “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work" (Revelation 22:12). Hence their cases must then have been decided.

So a time must come when the cases of all who have lived shall come in review, and their future destiny be finally settled. This is the time of judgment that is mentioned so many times in the word of God. Paul says that “we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ” (Romans 14:10). The Bible tells us, "For God will bring every work into judgment, Including every secret thing, Whether good or evil" (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14). Plus everyone will be judged by the law, “Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment” (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14). James adds: “So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty” (James 2:12).

As names come to review, names with sins on records, unrepented and unforgiven, are blotted out of the book of life. The Lord declared to Moses: “Whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book” (Exodus 32:33). Due to unrepented sins, their good deeds are erased from the book of God’s remembrance. Says Ezekiel: “When the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, . . . all his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned” (Ezekiel 18:24).

All who have truly repented of sin, claimed the blood of Christ as their atoning sacrifice, obeyed the law of God, their sins will be blotted out, and they will have eternal life. The Lord declares, by the prophet Isaiah: “I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for Mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins” (Isaiah 43:25). Said Jesus: “He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels” (Revelation 3:5). “Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32-33).

The good news is that Christ is not only judge but the advocate or attorney for the righteous, "...we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1). And the Bible is clear that He is merciful and faithful (Hebrews 2:17-18). What superb traits for an attorney! He who gave His life for us now serves as advocate/attorney to represent us in heaven.

This judgement is taking place right now as we are living in the end times. After its completed and the destiny of all will have been decided for life or death, an announcement will be made in heaven, "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work" (Revelation 22:11-12). This is called the close of probation and it will happen before Jesus returns the second time for His people.

 

[phipps]

The Close of Probation.

After the work of the investigative judgement is completed, probation will close as the announcement is made in heaven for everyone to stay as they are in Revelation 22:11-12 as mentioned above.

What does the close of probation mean? It means a time is coming when people can no longer switch sides. All throughout the Bible there has been the closing of probation. It usually closes suddenly, when its least expected and its too late for the unsaved to decide to be saved.

God has not revealed to us the dates when probation will close, but His warnings are clear. To the antediluvians He warned: “My Spirit shall not always strive with man” (Genesis 6:3). To ancient Israel He said: “You have forsaken Me,” says the Lord, “You have gone backward. Therefore I will stretch out My hand against you and destroy you; I am weary of relenting!” (Jeremiah 15:6). To us today He says: “Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is” (Mark 13:33). But you may ask why is the study of the close of probation important? It is important for mainly two reasons.

First, the close of probation reveals that the mercy of God, as His justice, is everlasting. His mercy is always expressed in permitting us the freedom of our choices. Mercifully He draws us to Himself and permits us to consider repenting. He grants us the gift of repentance if we are willing to desire it. Mercifully He allows humans the freedom to choose rebellion, in the sense that He will force no one to be saved. If a person is willing to be renewed and transformed, God facilitates that. If a person is not willing, God will not force such a person.

The mercy of God does not end with the close of probation. But rather, the close of probation demonstrates that God has nurtured His creation to the point where everyone has made a free and final decision. God in His mercy has provided for a plan of salvation. Mercy lingers, pleading with all to accept it, but as all come to a free and final decision, for death or life, there is no point in continuing pleading. In the close of probation, God simply recognises the free and final decision that His created beings have made and He discontinues pleading.

Second, the close of probation reveals that the justice of God, as His mercy, is everlasting. In His justice, He intends to end sin and suffering. When the universe reaches a point where no purpose is achieved in allowing suffering to continue, then to permit it to last even one moment longer than necessary would be out of character for God. In His justice, He will punish sin and end suffering, with an everlasting effect. In that sense too, the close of probation is an important study for the saints of God.

But “Men and women are in the last hours of probation, and yet are careless and stupid, and ministers have no power to arouse them; they are asleep themselves. Sleeping preachers preaching to a sleeping people!” (Testimonies, Vol. 2, p. 337).

Link

 

[phipps]

Deliverance and Armageddon.

Summary: God Himself will fight the battle of Armageddon on behalf of His people. God's enemies will be destroyed.

Deliverance will take place during the seventh plague. Babylon’s support base will be eroded during the sixth plague and the death decree will be proclaimed against all who would not worship the Beast and his image or accept his mark. The proclamation of this final decree will invoke God’s intervention, and Christ will then return to deliver those who chose His way.

God's people will not fight against Satan, as they have no power against his alliance. It is only Christ who will be able to deliver them, and He will fight the pre-millennial war called Armageddon on their behalf. During the seventh plague, the enemies of God will be destroyed by the earthquake, hail, and the brightness of Christ’s coming (Psalm 110:5-6; Job 38:22-23, Isaiah 28:17; Jeremiah 4:23-27 and 25:33-38; Zephaniah 1:1-3)

"Behold, the LORD makes the earth empty and makes it waste,
Distorts its surface
And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
And it shall be: As with the people, so with the priest;
As with the servant, so with his master;
As with the maid, so with her mistress;
As with the buyer, so with the seller;
As with the lender, so with the borrower;
As with the creditor, so with the debtor…
The world languishes and fades away;
The haughty people of the earth languish…
Because they have transgressed the laws,
Changed the ordinance,
Broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24:1-5).

The prophet Isaiah clearly shows here that God is just in all His dealings. There is no favouritism, and also no room for error in what Christ will do when He returns. The earth will be utterly destroyed, but in the midst of this destruction, the Lord promises deliverance.

"In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem:
“Do not fear;
Zion, let not your hands be weak.
The LORD your God in your midst,
The Mighty One, will save;
He will rejoice over you with gladness,
He will quiet you with His love,
He will rejoice over you with singing” (Zephaniah 3:16-17).

In the midst of earthquakes and hail under the seventh plague, a loud voice will be heard (1 Thessalonians 4:16), and the armies of heaven will intervene (Micah 5:10-15).

"The LORD will cause His glorious voice to be heard,
And show the descent of His arm,
With the indignation of His anger
And the flame of a devouring fire,
With scattering, tempest, and hailstones.
For through the voice of the LORD
Assyria will be beaten down" (Isaiah 30:30-31).

In Old Testament times, Assyria was one of the cruellest nations that Israel had to contend with. This nation serves as a type for the cruel master that Christ will destroy with “the brightness of his coming.” Christ’s redeemed of all ages will be raised from the dead, and the living people of God will be translated. They are then to be gathered by the angels and meet the Lord in the sky (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

"For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain" (Isaiah 26:19-21).

After the war, the earth will be desolate and dead, and the millennium of peace will then begin.


Link.

 

[elsbet]

Judgement in heaven before Jesus returns the second time.

This judgement is called the pre-advent or the investigative judgement. Its a very important subject that God's people, His church must understand.

Outside the writing of Ellen White, there is no such thing as the Investigative Judgement.

Christ entered the Most Holy Place once for all, securing [our] eternal redemption... [and] having offered one sacrifice for sins in perpetuity, sat down at the right hand of God... henceforth awaiting until His enemies should be placed as a footstool for His feet.​

Heb. 9:12, 10:35​

---
Further (and quite comprehensive) reading, for anyone interested.

Problems with SDA "Truth" about the Investigative Judgment
LINK

...

 

[elsbet]

Mademoiselle, I hope you realise that whole of the language and comprehension goes in vain should we begin to equate :-

Within = Midst = Among = Infront

Who are we kidding?

We both know,
Within ≈ Midst ≠ Among ≠≠ Infront

What else is continuously bringing each breath(s) and beating this Heart (albeit only for temporary 80~100 years) ?
Do we really now dare to imagine even a single atom can / will survive, even for a pico second, without the presence of TheOmniPresent? We really going to go that road and set such a precedent now?

Imho,
1.) Dwelling is TheAlmighty already made His/It's Throne within (0years = first breath = flesh born = baby from mother's water) [but the quintessential question - will this alive being eventually wakeup to (second birth; reborn = awake in/with Spirit = can see the farce of existence) that Throne within whilst 80~100years?]
2.) Inheriting is what will supposedly happen post 80~100 years!

§Can we dare to give it a practical approach? No?
1.) Because body, teeth, tongue, skin, organs, limbs, face, mouth, cheeks, head, brain, liver etc. all stays here, on planet Earth, either inside the casket or burnt to ashes!
2.) Because the Earth's core is all matter, soil, rocks and iron. Hell?
3.) Because the Earth keeps rotating and revolving and there are merely dry or wet clouds up there (no airplane or a blimp ever bumped into the male bearded person above Earth, yet.. and there had been a plethora of flying) and eventually the space - abyss. Heaven?

Nope. We ain't practical. And we fancy it that way(=
Because fiction is fascinating and fact is bland / boring!

I'm well aware.
What I don't know is who suggested the terms should be equated? It wasn't I, Monsieur.

I also do not know if you are interested in answers from others-- or if you are looking only for validation (or maybe propagation) of your own.
Either way...

As strange as it may seem to you, God-- or TheCreator, as you call Him-- is more than capable of keeping the people He created alive without bodily inhabiting them. People are permitted to live their own will, if they like.

 

[phipps]

Satan Bound.

Summary: Those who reject God will be destroyed, and those who love God will be removed from the earth for a millennium, leaving Satan and his demons alone on the earth.

Revelation 20:1-3, "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while."

The destruction of those who reject God and the removal of God's people from the earth will leave the earth desolate. In Revelation 20, John describes an angel who binds Satan with a great chain and throws him in the abyss. The term abyss is used in Scripture to denote the grave, death, destruction, and the prison of the demons (Romans 10:7, Luke 8:31).

The term abyss is also used in the Greek version of the Old Testament to describe the state of the uninhabited world when it says, “The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters” (Genesis 1:2).

The description of the earth after the coming of Christ, given by the prophet Jeremiah, is an apt description of the formless and void earth:

"I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void;
And the heavens, they had no light.
I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled,
And all the hills moved back and forth.
I beheld, and indeed there was no man,
And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were broken down
At the presence of the Lord,
By His fierce anger" (Jeremiah 4:23-26).

The whole world will be turned into a great prison for Satan and his demons. The great chain with which he is bound is the chain of circumstances that will prevent him from deceiving the nations, as they will have already been destroyed and no one remains on the earth. The Biblical records abound with examples of chains of circumstances: Psalm 2:3; 107:10,14; 116:16; Ecclesiastes 7:26; Isaiah 28:22, 52:2, and 58:6; Jeremiah 40:4; Lamentations 3:7.

"It shall come to pass in that day
That the LORD will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished" (Isaiah 24:21-23).

In these verses, we see that God's judgments fall not only upon the kings of the earth, but also on the demonic forces ("the host of exalted ones"). The evil confederacy will be shut up in prison of isolation and after one thousand years they shall be released (Revelation 20:3). During the millennium, Satan and his army will thus be captives on the desolate earth, while God's people are taken to heaven.

Link.

 

[phipps]

God's People will Judge.

Summary: God will give His people an opportunity to judge for themselves whether His judgments are righteous.

Revelation 20:4-6, "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

These prophetic verses will take place in heaven where John had earlier seen God’s throne and the 24 elders (Revelation 4:4). The people who chose God's way will be given the promise that they would reign on the earth (Revelation 5:10), but prior to this reign, they will first judge the nations.

Precisely who the 24 elders are is not revealed. The number 24 is the sum of the number of patriarchs and apostles. The gates of the New Jerusalem have written on them the names of the 12 tribes of Israel and the foundation stones have the names of the 12 apostles, thus unifying God's people under the old and new covenant. Revelation 20:4 tells us that amidst this heavenly scene, the people of God will also become judges.

When Christ returns, He will already know who accepted Him and who rejected Him. The judgment given to those who chose His way must therefore be a judgment of verification. God's righteousness and justice must forever be vindicated before the universe.

During the thousand years, every case will be scrutinized—no lingering doubts may remain—and with one voice all will proclaim, “Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints” (Revelation 15:3).

God's judgment will be declared righteous (Romans 2:5, 2 Thessalonians 1:5, Psalm 19:9). In this millennial judgment, God's dealing with the evil angels and rejecters of His truth will be scrutinized (Hebrews 10:26-27; 2 Peter 2:4,9; Jude 6). God's people will thus judge the world.

"Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life" (1 Corinthians 6:2-3).


Link.