Does God have a Church?

A Freeman

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And what happened to Jesus when He physically went into one of their churches to speak to the people there? They tried to murder Him.

Luke 4:16-30
4:16 And he came to Gennesaret, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the church on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
4:17 And there was delivered unto him the Book of the Prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the Book, he found the place where it was written,
4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because He hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord (Isa. 61:1-3).
4:20 And he closed the Book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the church were fastened on him.
4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears.
4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the Gracious Words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?
4:23 And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.
4:24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No Prophet is accepted in his own country.
4:25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
4:26 But unto none of them was Elijah sent, save unto Zarephath, [a city] of Sidon, unto a woman [that was] a widow.
4:27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.
4:28 And all they in the church, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
4:29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
4:30 But he passing through the midst of them went his way,
 

shankara

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I don't go to church really, but I wouldn't mind visiting this one:


And this one kind of looks like a lot of fun:


I assume we're talking about churches to the One Universal Divinity Christ adored, not the sectarian tyrant-deity considered by His present so-called followers to be "the one true God"...?
 

Lisa

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1 Corinthians 12:12-14, 18
For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.

But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired.”
 

phipps

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Yes, if we can find a good church that's fine, but if we can't I'm sure God won't mind if we stay away rather than subject ourselves to their bad vibes.
After all, God is EVERYWHERE, not just in churches-
God says "Heaven is my throne,earth is my footstool, how can you build a house for me?" (Isaiah 66:1)

And Jesus said it's okay to commune with God in private if that's what we prefer-- “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others...But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (Matt 6:5/6)

PS- we could even say that discussion forums like this one are a "church", because strictly speaking churches are PEOPLE, not stones.. :)
Yes but you have to actively be seeking for a Church that has God's true message and pray for the Holy Spirit to lead you to one. It is not good to worship on your own.

True, God is everywhere and not just in churches, especially right now in the current situation. I have found its helpful to study the Bible on our own but also in groups because we learn a lot from church members too. We miss a lot when we don't socialise with church members.

Communing with God privately everyday is important because we all have a personal relationship with God. That doesn't take way from going to church and studying with others too.

True, church is not about a building, but worshipping with people. As an African I know many people met on Sabbath outside under trees or temporary tents (many still do) and worshipped God together while they were coming up with money to build an actual building that would be safe to meet in under all weathers. God bless.
 
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Tidal

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..I have found its helpful to study the Bible on our own but also in groups because we learn a lot from church members too..

Hmm... I'm 71 years old and I like to think I reached the end of my "learning" path a long time ago.. :)

UPHILL
by: Christina Rossetti (1830-1894)

"Does the road wind up-hill all the way?
Yes, to the very end.

Will the day's journey take the whole long day?
From morn to night, my friend.

But is there for the night a resting-place?
A roof for when the slow dark hours begin.

May not the darkness hide it from my face?
You cannot miss that inn.

Shall I meet other wayfarers at night?
Those who have gone before.

Then must I knock, or call when just in sight?
They will not keep you standing at that door.

Shall I find comfort, travel-sore and weak?
Of labour you shall find the sum.

Will there be beds for me and all who seek?
Yea, beds for all who come"


Jesus said "Knock and the door will be opened to you" (Matt 7:7)

 

phipps

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Hmm... I'm 71 years old and I like to think I reached the end of my "learning" path a long time ago.. :)

UPHILL
by: Christina Rossetti (1830-1894)

"Does the road wind up-hill all the way?
Yes, to the very end.

Will the day's journey take the whole long day?
From morn to night, my friend.

But is there for the night a resting-place?
A roof for when the slow dark hours begin.

May not the darkness hide it from my face?
You cannot miss that inn.

Shall I meet other wayfarers at night?
Those who have gone before.

Then must I knock, or call when just in sight?
They will not keep you standing at that door.

Shall I find comfort, travel-sore and weak?
Of labour you shall find the sum.

Will there be beds for me and all who seek?
Yea, beds for all who come"


Jesus said "Knock and the door will be opened to you" (Matt 7:7)

We never stop learning through our life times. As a Christian I know there is always more to learn about God. We can never exhaust what we need to know about God. The more we find out, the closer we get to Him until the day we die or until Jesus returns (if we are alive). And when we get to heaven and to God's Kingdom for eternity we will still never exhaust our knowledge about God.
 

Tidal

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We never stop learning through our life times. As a Christian I know there is always more to learn about God..

The danger of that philosophy is that it might make ordinary people might think "I'll never understand Christianity without years of study, I'm just too dumb" and lose interest in Jesus.
As I've said before, he's easy to understand-
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)
"When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus" (Acts 4:13)

And Paul had to remind the rest - "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

A fool with a theology diploma is still just a fool..;)
Jesus said:- "I thank you Father for hiding these things from the wise and learned, and for revealing them to little children" (Matt 11:25-27)
 

phipps

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The danger of that philosophy is that it might make ordinary people might think "I'll never understand Christianity without years of study, I'm just too dumb" and lose interest in Jesus.
As I've said before, he's easy to understand-
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)
"When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus" (Acts 4:13)

And Paul had to remind the rest - "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

A fool with a theology diploma is still just a fool..;)
Jesus said:- "I thank you Father for hiding these things from the wise and learned, and for revealing them to little children" (Matt 11:25-27)
First, in general as people we always have a a lot to learn in life and its a process that never stops throughout our life times. We can never exhaust enough knowledge in this world.

Secondly, its not about "studying" Christianity. Its about getting to know God. The Bible is a spiritual book. The Words in it are very powerful and have the power to change lives because they are God's Words. Jesus is the Word. The Bible is Jesus (John 1:1-3,14).

After we come to Christ and accept Him, the Holy Spirit leads us to more truths about God from His Word. All true learning about God through His Word takes place in the spirit of love and faith. As we learn more about God, gain more knowledge, our relationship with Him becomes deeper, we learn to love and trust Him more. Christians are to grow both intellectually and spiritually too.

The Bible and Jesus are easy to understand for those who have faith and are guided by the Holy spirit, no matter what background they come from or what level of education they have. Without faith and the Holy Spirit, many don't understand God and have no real relationship with Him. There are atheists who know the Bible inside and out. They know the history and everything about the Bible but have no faith. They do not understand God spiritually at all. They do not understand the Bible correctly therefore. That is why there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the Bible in the world.
 
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Tidal

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..There are atheists who know the Bible inside and out. They know the history and everything about the Bible but have no faith. They do not understand God spiritually at all..

Yes, in spiritual terms they're brain dead-

 

Vixy

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In my country there are no churches left to attend what really goes Gods way. It's all acceptance of perversions like homosexuality and women as priests and all of it so many have stopped attending. Many have also stopped paying taxes to the church because of it and completely left. The church no longer has any role in this country because of how its let down its citizens.
 

Vixy

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Yes, if we can find a good church that's fine, but if we can't I'm sure God won't mind if we stay away rather than subject ourselves to their bad vibes.
After all, God is EVERYWHERE, not just in churches-
God says "Heaven is my throne,earth is my footstool, how can you build a house for me?" (Isaiah 66:1)

And Jesus said it's okay to commune with God in private if that's what we prefer-- “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others...But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (Matt 6:5/6)

PS- we could even say that discussion forums like this one are a "church", because strictly speaking churches are PEOPLE, not stones.. :)
Yes as 2 Timothy 3 says "Stay away from them"
 

Tidal

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Most churches are no good and don't have the right message but there is a true church..

Each of us are INDIVIDUALLY our own true "church".. :)
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philip 2:12 KJV)


But having said that, it's great if people find a church they like and feel comfortable with.
Personally I never did find one but it hasn't hindered my spiritual development in any way because the bottom line is we don't need churches to do our thinking for us anyway.. :D

Jesus said:-"You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)
 

phipps

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In my country there are no churches left to attend what really goes Gods way. It's all acceptance of perversions like homosexuality and women as priests and all of it so many have stopped attending. Many have also stopped paying taxes to the church because of it and completely left. The church no longer has any role in this country because of how its let down its citizens.
That's sad. How can churches that claim to worship God allow in such perversions? But are you sure its all churches? Are you sure there is not even one church that teaches the true message of God and is pure?
 
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Vixy

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That's sad. How can churces that claim to worship God allow in such perversions? But are you sure its all churches? Are you sure there is not even one church that teaches the true message of God and is pure?
Not one from what Ive seen. Even the home churches allows women as priests so not one seems spared, not any I know of anyway and Ive been to every one of them i can find.
 

Thunderian

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Most churches are no good and don't have the right message but there is a true church. God always has a true Church in every age and there is one right now that has the true message and obeys all the ten commandments. So if you really want to find the right Church pray to God to reveal it to you and then start worshipping God on the true Sabbath with the members as He commanded and as He and the apostles did as well.
I haven’t seen a reply to my earlier post. Do you believe that your choice of church has any bearing on your salvation?
 

phipps

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I haven’t seen a reply to my earlier post. Do you believe that your choice of church has any bearing on your salvation?
Personally finding the church I'm in, led me to the truth and deepened my faith in God. I had faith but I found God to be very harsh in certain instances in the Bible and couldn't reconcile how God could be loving and heartless at the same time. I was scared of Him too. I felt like if I crossed Him, He would not hesitate in punishing me like He did some people in the Bible. The subject of hell confused me too. Finding the unadulterated truth about God, about how much He loves us all and the truth about hell as He has revealed in His Word, lead me to understand God better and therefore to have a relationship with Him that grew and is still growing over time. I found out other truths too about the sabbath, obedience, heavenly temple, Israel, end time prophecy, death, health etc and more about Jesus and His sacrifice for us. My eyes were opened and my love for God grew. The Bible says, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:31-32). The Holy Spirit led me to more truths gradually. Still is. I know I would not have such truths of God's Word anywhere else but in my church.

I have also read testimonies of people who had questions about certain subjects and found their way to my church and that very day the Pastor was preaching about that subject. After they found out the truth on the subject, it led to them getting baptised and becoming members of that church. Another testimony was of a woman who was baptised and a member of the church but her husband was Roman Catholic. He went to church with his wife for years but never got baptised. He was never convicted until the Pastor preached on the truth of Roman Catholicism. You see nowadays a lot of Pastors do not want to preach on certain subjects because they are scared they will offend someone in the congregation. That day, the man found out the truth about Roman Catholicism and gave his life to Christ. Sometimes it takes only one thing to touch someone's heart. He got baptised the next Sabbath. Would that have happened if they were not in that Church? I don't think so.

However, no one is going to be saved because of the church they belong to. That church may have God's true message but it doesn't mean all the members have accepted it in their hearts. It doesn't mean they have true faith and trust and completely obey God's will. They may know its the truth but they have not let God into their hearts. God looks on the heart. They may do or say the right things in church but its just a facade. Some people go to church for other reasons other than worshipping and getting to know God.

But knowing the true message of God so we can obey only His will is important for those who have made a choice to follow God all their lives.

God will judge people according the to the light they have and what they did with it. However if they get to know more of God's truth and reject it, then the Bible tells us what the end will be for such people.

This is the last thing I am going to say to you here. I am fed up of arguing with you over Bible truths. For a Christian its amazing how much of the Bible you reject. When a truth is presented here, you think because you've never heard of it or it disagrees with your doctrine its automatically wrong. On most things I've discussed with you here, you have been wrong and against God's Word (and I say this because its true). I've decided to end having discussions with you. Its not helpful or of any benefit at all.

I wish you all the best and I pray you continue to grow in God and accept His truths from His Word and not reject them without studying His Word just because you were taught something different. I pray that you have come to understand from the little I've posted here that most of Christendom does not teach the entire true message of God and its only a minority that does. Biblically and through the ages the truth is and always has been with a minority. I pray that whatever is preached to you, you always go back and check the Word of God to check if its true like the Bereans (Acts 17:10-12). I pray we all do the same. Goodbye.
 
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phipps

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Each of us are INDIVIDUALLY our own true "church".. :)
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philip 2:12 KJV)


But having said that, it's great if people find a church they like and feel comfortable with.
Personally I never did find one but it hasn't hindered my spiritual development in any way because the bottom line is we don't need churches to do our thinking for us anyway.. :D

Jesus said:-"You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)
I hadn't seen this response.

We are not churches. The Bible says we are baptised into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13-14). The Body of Christ is the church. Here are a few more verses about what the Bible says about the body of Christ or church.

Romans 12:4-5, "For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another."

1 Corinthians 12:25-27, "...that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it."

1 Corinthians 12:27, "Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually."

Ephesians 4:25, "Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another."

Ephesians 4:11-13, "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ."

Ephesians 5:29-30, "For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones."

Colossians 1:18, "And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence."

Philippians 2:12 is not saying we should worship God on our own. For starters this message was written to a church or group of people. He calls them “my beloved”.

Churches are not there to do our thinking for us nor have I said they do or implied it. I posted the reasons why we should be part of a church using scripture in this post and above. Its not me saying these things, its the Bible. Either you do what the Bible says (which is God's will) or you don't. Its up to you. Its up to all of us to choose because we were all created with freedom of choice.

I will post these verses again which are written by Paul too. "And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching" (Hebrews 10:24-25).
 
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I hadn't seen this response.

We are not churches. The Bible says we are baptised into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13-14). The Body of Christ is the church. Here are a few more verses about what the Bible says about the body of Christ or church.

Romans 12:4-5, "For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another."

1 Corinthians 12:25-27, "...that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it."

1 Corinthians 12:27, "Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually."

Ephesians 4:25, "Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another."

Ephesians 4:11-13, "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ."

Ephesians 5:29-30, "For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones."

Colossians 1:18, "And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence."

Philippians 2:12 is not saying we should worship God on our own. For starters this message was written to a church or group of people. He calls them “my beloved”.

Churches are not there to do our thinking for us nor have I said they do or implied it. I posted the reasons why we should be part of a church using scripture in this post and above. Its not me saying these things, its the Bible. Either you do what the Bible says (which is God's will) or you don't. Its up to you.
Since you seem a person more likely to give a more detailed answer. Here's a question:

On what authority do you think that a true church is based? (and no, "The Bible" is a nonanswer here, because anyone can claim anything to be "Biblical")
 
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