Christian Zionism Discussed

[Serveto]

In the words of Bob Dylan, "It's not dark yet, but it's getting there", and just so you know, I have everything in my life that just wants the world to go on as normal! I would rather have lived in 1955, I think ;-)

Not only is the darkness "getting there," as our wandering minstrel sings, but, to state it in American slang, I really suck at canning peaches. By the way, even if you did, or do, courageously come out as a Christian Zionist, we may still remain friends; that is, if you can continue to put up with me.

Not all forms of Zionism are represented by Likkud-Beitanu, who, though I speak in generalizations, resemble little more, to me, than a lot of circumcised Boers, transplanted from 1950's South Africa to Jerusalem. Some early forms envisioned a sort of "Abrahamic Commonwealth," open to all, mutually rewarding and beneficial to Jews, (Palestinian) Christians, Muslims and secularists alike. Their voices were drowned beneath the din and roar long ago, but Uri Avnery of Gush Shalom, among other organizations which could be mentioned, keep the light on and the memory alive.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

In amongst the various narratives of the "Truth" movement, from the slight of hand of Zeitgeist, through the trumped up "Elders of Zion", the Alan Watt hopelessness, the (very popular) Jungian interpretations of "thought forms", godless political Zionism etc etc one thing stands out to me...

God is sovereign. In the end, my writing on a little phone won't change His plans. In fact, now is beginning to feel like a good moment to set down my phone more and open up the Bible. God bless and guide you @Serveto

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Serveto

Two things I must say, based on the issues you mentioned. Firstly you did right to clarify the point that we are at least seven years away from the point when Israel declares "Baruch haba b'shem Adonai" and much is prophesied to happen between now and then.

Second, and more on the topic, to be a Christian who believes we are in the "Fig Tree" generation in no way means I stand for or support everything political Israel does, any more than I think that each of the Kings in the Books of Kings were good men, or believe the UK government is currently doing a good job ;-)

 

[Vytas]

Isn't he going to cause all the world to take a "mark" on their right hand or forehead and exclude those who refuse to do so from the economic system? I'm not even a Christian, except sort of vestigially and culturally, but I have no intention of taking that mark. As I see it, and unless I start canning and storing some peaches and building a solar-powered homestead soon, that means I can expect to starve to death when he arrives. Even if only out of base motives of self-preservation, doesn't it make sense, then, that if I don't want to see the emergence of a so called "Antichrist," I would oppose the conditions which are necessary to make his arrival possible (the question is open to everybody, for general discussion)?

Excluding i think will be very simple, If your are not in the beast system you simply will not have a way to buy something, there will be no alternative ways to shop...No wonder they so hurrying to implement cashless society...No one will force mark on you...People will receive it willingly and gladly...
He will be loved by whole world, he will appear as savior after great calamity or all out war , he will provide for people, he will care, he will speak nice , he will love people, with him there will be peace and prosperity...For stopping conditions needed for his arrival we already too late, we are already snowballing now , multiple events happening one after another, and like falling dominoes, they will stop as they end, not sooner...
To oppose his arrival when he comes to scene is even more impossible, savior of the people...You wouldn't even dare to say out loud anything bad against him...Visit some major pop star fan page and try to say anything bad about him/her you will have good idea how will people react, if you were foolish enough to say anything bad about him...They will kill you in outrage...
Yes you either learn how to become self sufficient or it will be very tough for you...Anyway on to 2023 we go...

 

[Serveto]

He will be loved by whole world, he will appear as savior after great calamity or all out war , he will provide for people, he will care, he will speak nice , he will love people, with him there will be peace and prosperity...For stopping conditions needed for his arrival we already too late, we are already snowballing now , multiple events happening one after another, and like falling dominoes, they will stop as they end, not sooner...

To oppose his arrival when he comes to scene is even more impossible, savior of the people...You wouldn't even dare to say out loud anything bad against him...

I hear you and agree. On the other hand, he isn't even here yet, on the scene, and I instinctively, no doubt as a carry-over from my Christian upbringing and education, despise and oppose him. That is one reason why I am at best confused by why so many of my beloved Christian friends, intimates and family members seem so willing to support, either tacitly, by saying nothing, or actively by contributing to the designs of the modern, nation State of Israel, the very system which, as I understand, he will reportedly require in order to first obtain and then maintain his seat of power.

...Anyway on to 2023 we go...

May I ask? Are you just using this date as a general indication of the future or does it hold particular significance to you? I always enjoy hearing and learning from your perspective and thank you for responding to my question.

 

[elsbet]

I hear you and agree. On the other hand, he isn't even here yet, on the scene, and I instinctively, no doubt as a carry-over from my Christian upbringing and education, despise and oppose him. That is one reason why I am at best confused by why so many of my beloved Christian friends, intimates and family members seem so willing to support, either tacitly, by saying nothing, or actively by contributing to the designs of the modern, nation State of Israel, the very system which, as I understand, he will reportedly require in order to first obtain and then maintain his seat of power.

May I ask? Are you just using this date as a general indication of the future or does it hold particular significance to you? I always enjoy hearing and learning from your perspective and thank you for responding to my question.

I'm just being inappropriately nosy-- obviously you should not feel compelled to answer, but I'm curious.. are you American? Seems so.

Thanks

 

[Serveto]

I'm just being inappropriately nosy-- obviously you should not feel compelled to answer, but I'm curious.. are you American? Seems so.

Thanks

Thank you for expressing an interest. Yes, I am American, although those around me, my fellow Yankees, usually say "arguably." To them, it seems I often commit the apparently unpardonable sin of being a (gasp! shudder!) cosmopolitan, instead of the customary, and more readily approved, provincial lol.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

A key issue to appreciate is that (imo) our support of opposition to Israel has as much bearing on the arrival of the "Day of the Lord" and the appearance of the "Man of Sin" as the actions of passengers on a ship have on the destination of the vessel...

I am excited because I have felt homesick for a land I have never visited, and a face I have never seen for more than half my life.

I love the words of this song...

Some Christians believe we will go through some of the period described as Daniels 70th week (in which case I guess we will be around in the forum to offer our perspective, should that begin to unfold in the next few years), others (me included) feel that the Bible teaches that the Church will be Raptured just prior to this period, in which case there may be no Christian voice on the forum to offer an alternate explanation to what will be the "mainstream" view of the events that might then unfold.

 

[Vytas]

I hear you and agree. On the other hand, he isn't even here yet, on the scene, and I instinctively, no doubt as a carry-over from my Christian upbringing and education, despise and oppose him. That is one reason why I am at best confused by why so many of my beloved Christian friends, intimates and family members seem so willing to support, either tacitly, by saying nothing, or actively by contributing to the designs of the modern, nation State of Israel, the very system which, as I understand, he will reportedly require in order to first obtain and then maintain his seat of power.

May I ask? Are you just using this date as a general indication of the future or does it hold particular significance to you? I always enjoy hearing and learning from your perspective and thank you for responding to my question.

I will keep it simple...Because they are brainwashed...Not stupid, not guilty of anything or bad... It may sound offensive but it really isn't we all suffer from that, only in different fields...And when you are brainwashed you have no idea about it. Our beliefs makes our reality, and it's directly tied to sense of security and survival...So they will not listen, they will talk back...
This supposed to be a quote, but it's from video. So you will have to deal with my terrific English skills instead

Once i saw a christian in a church with a pin "christians for israel" i approached her and asked why are you supporting them, don't you know that you are supporting antichrist coming? she answered oh i don't know, im just happy to be part of prophecy.
How insightful of her...

That date has particular significance for all of us... 2016...2023...2030...2037, you got the idea... It's a seven year cycle, and it all will start in shemitah year...Only God knows date, but we know times and seasons...

EDIT my grammar though...sorry...

 

[Serveto]

So you will have to deal with my terrific English skills instead

Just so you know, I am a worldwide traveler, have been from my early youth, and thoroughly enjoy hearing how non-native English speakers formulate sentences. Usually, it's poetic, and I am one who appreciates poetry, at least some of it.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Thank you for expressing an interest. Yes, I am American, although those around me, my fellow Yankees, usually say "arguably." To them, it seems I often commit the apparently unpardonable sin of being a (gasp! shudder!) cosmopolitan, instead of the customary, and more readily approved, provincial lol.

You have never struck me as a Kentucky kind of guy!



The problem for the cosmopolitan seeker is outlined in 1 Corinthians 1...

"26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence."

I set the "m" in bold, as one wise (and rather witty) individual was thankful they were saved by it's inclusion!

 

[elsbet]

Thank you for expressing an interest. Yes, I am American, although those around me, my fellow Yankees, usually say "arguably." To them, it seems I often commit the apparently unpardonable sin of being a (gasp! shudder!) cosmopolitan, instead of the customary, and more readily approved, provincial lol.

Nice.. and thanks, again.

Nothing wrong with being open-minded (note: my definition differs from the standard) , even down here, south of the Mason-Dixon. You won't hear anyone say that, of course, but there are a few who know what time it is.

 

[elsbet]

I thought I detected a generous amount of that notorious Southern gentility, of or related to the word, genteel, but, in your case, not a whiff of good old Southern Comfort. I am pleased to meet you, by the way, and am glad that you've joined us on the board, even though we've already become acquainted in other threads.

Great Lakes region by way of Northern California, on my part.

Very nice to meet you, as well, and thanks for the welcome-- glad to be here.

I've lived a few different places, California included, but I always end up back here-- born and raised.. can't shake it. It's a balmy 70°, and the water is calm today-- though it has been quite cold the past week, dipping into the 40s overnight.
That's cold for us.

Side note: northern California folks had a very different vibe from their southern brethren. Still distant, in a way that was distinctly California, but much (much) kinder to strangers. It was a relief after months spent in L.A.

 

[Karlysymon]

@Vytas posted this in the Jerusalem thread and it sure gave me a good laugh.
http://wnd.com/2017/12/trumps-jerusalem-declaration-sparks-talk-of-3rd-temple/

But it was also troubling to me, in many ways, that Trump should be portrayed in this manner....akin to Cyrus and more.

If Trump is a 21st century Cyrus, (who was mentioned by name in the prophecy) its only logical that any prophecy to do with the 3rd Temple should atleast bear the name of "God's servant", who would get the ball rolling. As far as iam aware, there's nothing like 'Trump', 'Donald', 'Drumpf', 'Abba Barron' in Ezekiel(40-44) or elsewhere.
I mean, as momentous as this is, the man responsible for setting in motion a chain of events, culminating into a restored temple, from where the Son of God will gloriously reign for 1000yrs....he *atleast* deserves a prophetic mention in Holy Writ. Christ graced the 2nd temple and its 'patron' got an acknowledgement. Returning as a King of Kings this time around to His temple, surely the name of the '2nd Cyrus' should be littered in prophecy.

..“There is something very special and holy in Trump,”added Hayman...

Now, Trump won the electoral vote, which basically means he was s-elected.
If mainstream and alt Christian media keep up this kind of image, of Trump 'crusading' abroad, out on God's mission, its only logical that the 'crusading' should come home
(i meant to post this in my Theocracy thread) just like other wars.
Given that America is in dire need of a spiritual facelift, if Wicca as the 2nd fastest growing religion is anything to go by.

I mean, make America great again in every aspect.
The Fourth Reich knows what it is doing and imo, we shouldn't underestimate whatever plans it has in regard to transforming the American spiritual landscape to whatever end.

But yes, God still holds reigns of all that transpires down here.

*Excuse my ultra crazy, conspiratorial and chemtrail-fueled rambling.*

 

[Daciple]

On the other hand, he isn't even here yet, on the scene, and I instinctively, no doubt as a carry-over from my Christian upbringing and education, despise and oppose him.

My belief and perspective is, if one is not Born Again then they will not have the ability to see through the AntiChrists deception. I also believe the World will be in a much different state than now, one where Humanity at large is going to be begging for the ideologies we may view as Evil now, but from that perspective it will seem like a literal God Send. Also I believe in whatever form or fashion the AntiChrist may come, he is going to have Super Natural Abilities. Just think how easily you have been persuaded to do something or buy something or take something that you at one moment before knew wasnt good for you. Maybe its just me but I have definitely been persuaded by people with slick tongues that have convinced me into doing taking buying something that I knew and was convinced literally a moment before was of no value to me.

Think of this type of person but one who also has Super Natural Abilities? He is going to have to do something amazing to get the Whole World to worship Him right? And that is what the Word of God states, there is no half way with the AntiChrist, no offense but if you are not saved and remain in that state once He comes his power is going to cause you to accept him, point blank period. The Word of God tells us 2 things concerning the Antichrist that alludes to what I am trying to say:

2 Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God is going to send a strong delusion upon all those who are not Born Again, everyone who refused to accept Christ, the Truth, they will I believe instantly or possibly over a short time, be pushed over the edge of where they are already standing, which is unbelief. Something will happen that will cause everyone who up till that point has rejected God to full on completely reject God, and to full on completely reject Christ. It is the dividing line, and if you havent been Born Again before that point, no matter how much you logically feel you wouldnt accept the AntiChrist, you will, boom in an instant. Your rejection that you are sitting in right now, that will be where you stand forever, and the Word tells us all will worship him that havent been Born Again.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It is not some, its not most, it is ALL that dwell upon the earth WILL worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain. The ONLY hope of not being caught up in whatever strong delusion that will come, to be caught up in whatever Supernatural Abilities is to have your name written in the Book of the Lamb, and the only way to do that is to get Born Again, to repent and believe on Christ. I hope you come to Christ before that day comes, because once its here, there remains no more hope brother, but today that Hope is here, it is present and it wants you to come and find out all about it, to be saved from the Wrath, to be saved from anything Satan can hope to do to destroy your soul!!! The choice is yours brother, I love you!!!

 

[Serveto]

..“There is something very special and holy in Trump,” added Hayman...

Yeah, right, whatever, sure. As I see it, the "holy" thing in Trump is the mafia don -or, as the American mainstream media seems to euphemistically prefer, "casino mogul"- Sheldon Adelson, who, by the sounds of things, is owed a few election favors. Some people in Israel seem desperate for a Messiah, whether a "true" or "false" Messiah is at this point anybody's guess, if they are willing to accept Trump among the candidates .

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Yeah, right, whatever, sure. As I see it, the "holy" thing in Trump is the mafia don -or, as the American mainstream media seems to euphemistically prefer, "casino mogul"- Sheldon Adelson, who, by the sounds of things, is owed a few election favors. Some people in Israel seem desperate for a Messiah, whether a "true" or "false" Messiah is at this point anybody's guess, if they are willing to accept Trump among the candidates.

Sometimes you have to stand back far enough to see the big picture... If anyone has missed this, it is probably one of the clearest and least "opinion based" outlines of all things prophetic I have watched.

 

[TokiEl]

Sometimes you have to stand back far enough to see the big picture... If anyone has missed this, it is probably one of the clearest and least "opinion based" outlines of all things prophetic I have watched.

The Bible or God's book is such an inexhaustible source of aha moments.

Also in the book of Joshua there is a hint as to the timeline when Israel would know the Way after the Holy of holies crossed over to the Promised land or Paradise.

"And Joshua rose early in the morning; and they removed from Shittim, and came to Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over. And it came to pass after three days, that the officers went through the host; And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it. Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore." - Joshua 3:1-4

 

[Karlysymon]

Yeah, right, whatever, sure. As I see it, the "holy" thing in Trump is the mafia don -or, as the American mainstream media seems to euphemistically prefer, "casino mogul"- Sheldon Adelson, who, by the sounds of things, is owed a few election favors. Some people in Israel seem desperate for a Messiah, whether a "true" or "false" Messiah is at this point anybody's guess, if they are willing to accept Trump among the candidates .

..“There is something very special and holy in Trump,” added Hayman...

As long as i get to laugh, nothing else matters
Seriously, reading that, all i could think of was "grab them by the p***y". Then i had to imagine Cyrus the great, circa 570 BC, making the same comment...*shudders*...

 

[Serveto]

..“There is something very special and holy in Trump,” added Hayman...

As long as i get to laugh, nothing else matters
Seriously, reading that, all i could think of was "grab them by the p***y". Then i had to imagine Cyrus the great, circa 570 BC, making the same comment...*shudders*...

Laughter, I hope, is allowed in this ongoing "theater of the absurd." The new Cyrus, being ever mercurial and shape-shifting, sure switched keys and changed his campaign tune after he delivered this 2015 December speech, which speech some of us not wholly suffering from incurable amnesia still remember.

Trump To Republican Jewish Coalition: "You're Not Going To Support Me Because I Don't Want Your Money"​