Christian Zionism Discussed

[Lisa]

I think @rainerann was asking what you think mystery babilon is, are you saying it's whole world?

O, I see. Mystery, Babylon sits on the beast that runs the world doesn’t it? I think mystery, Babylon is the catholic church. But to be not conformed to this world, its kind of one in the same don’t ya think? Think about the holy day coming up, is that Christian? Is Easter Christian? But yet they are the biggest holy days of the year and what do they really have to do with anything other than catholocism? And yet the answer is so much more...

 

[TokiEl]

So why would the Jews care about the Temple Mount then? And what is the wailing wall?

Perhaps it is politically prudent that there is a place like the Wailing Wall for the Jews to come together in worship ?

 

[Lisa]

Perhaps it is politically prudent that there is a place like the Wailing Wall for the Jews to come together in worship ?

I thought they did it because it was part of their culture..not because it was politically motivated.

 

[DesertRose]

http://www.yenisafak.com/en/columns/ergunyildirim/political-judaism-and-zionist-pathology-2040241
Political Judaism and Zionist pathology

 

[Lisa]

http://www.yenisafak.com/en/columns/ergunyildirim/political-judaism-and-zionist-pathology-2040241
Political Judaism and Zionist pathology

Is this your 3rd or 4th time posting that now?

 

[DesertRose]

Is this your 3rd or 4th time posting that now?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/48398.htm

Trump’s Doomsday Jerusalem Speech

By Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich

December 12, 2017 "Information Clearing House" - In 1995, a few short years after the official end of the Cold War when hope-filled nations were focusing on peace and prosperity, the United States Congress unanimously passed the “Jerusalem Embassy Act” into law. The law recognized “Jerusalem” as the official capital of Israel. The passage of this law was left unnoticed by most. Few objected to a law passed by the preeminent power of the new unilateral world order. Fewer still understood the consequences of the law.

 

[TokiEl]

I thought they did it because it was part of their culture..not because it was politically motivated.

Most Jews may think the Temple Mount is where the Temple was... but according to archaeology and descriptions of Josephus it is not.

Still it is understandable that those who know this are quiet about it... to tell them that the Wailing Wall is actually not of the Temple would only cause trouble i think. It's almost like losing the Temple again.

Probably not good for the Jewish psyche.

 

[DesertRose]

Islamic perspective:

 

[Kung Fu]

Most Jews may think the Temple Mount is where the Temple was... but according to archaeology and descriptions of Josephus it is not.

Still it is understandable that those who know this are quiet about it... to tell them that the Wailing Wall is actually not of the Temple would only cause trouble i think. It's almost like losing the Temple again.

Probably not good for the Jewish psyche.

Can't have their world tumbling down on them lol.

 

[TokiEl]

Can't have their world tumbling down on them lol.

Shhh... don't spill the secret.

 

[elsbet]

There was a thriving flower export in Gaza which was demolished after Israel withdrew in 2005.
Now only rockets and terror tunnels come from Gaza.

In hindsight it was a big mistake to let the Palestinians rule themselves... so perhaps it is time that Israel take it back again ?

Perhaps the actual residents of Palestine are being run over by the criminal element, who claim to represent the will of the people.

All we know is what media the churn out.

 

[Serveto]

And more money / connections.

Unfortunately, the Jesuits are looking out for *only* the Jesuits.. based on their long history of doing just that, I mean.
:/

As well, as I recall, one of his biographers reported that Ignatius Loyola himself made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem and vowed to reclaim it for the, that is, his church. His church is also a state, or has since been reduced to a sort of "city state," the Vatican. Jerusalem, I think, is the dilated cervix of the planet.

 

[elsbet]

As well, as I recall, one of his biographers reported that Ignatius Loyola himself made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem and vowed to reclaim it for the, that is, his church. His church is also a state, or has since been reduced to a sort of "city state," the Vatican. Jerusalem, I think, is the dilated cervix of the planet.

Hm.
Never heard it put quite like that.

Yes, *his* church.
The Jesuits seem to practice a more concentrated, if not compulsive, Catholicism -- whatever frequency they're tuning in-- I don't think it's Christ they're receiving. More like Cthulu.

 

[rainerann]

Edit: And I think religion...or the Bible has everything to do with what is happening, so you really can’t leave it out of the discussion. I had just added this to the other thread...lol!

Don’t you think that if scripture says it will happen then there is no stopping it? Can anyone move God’s hand once it’s out stretched? And we also know that God is coming back, so when He does, it has to happen the way He said doesn’t it?

Yes, people more than likely won’t repent, and spend their time shaking their fists at God...

We as Christians share the Good News. What other role should we play? Even when Jesus was arrested and Peter cut that soldiers ear off, Jesus told him that His kingdom was not of this world...fighting isn’t the way. If you live by the sword you will die by it.

I don’t support the reeling, I am excited to see Biblical prophecy happening, and terrified at the same time...its not going to be a good time...but we are told to look for His coming, and these are signs.

Why, except for your son’s safety, would you want scripture to be false?

Well, will things happen in a good and right way, and how does that look for scripture to be fulfilled? Even Jesus, when He was taken to be killed said that things had to happen that way to fulfill scripture, otherwise He could call 12 legions of angels.

Are you confusing desiring the day of the Lord and seeing Biblical prophecy fulfilled? The day of the Lord will be a most terrible day, scarier than anything that has ever happened on earth...but seeing things happen the way the Bible says its going to...when people say that the Bible is not true...I think that is powerful.

Come out of the world His people, don’t be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. I think that God has His ways, and the world has its, and to come out of the way of the world is most unnatural for people and that takes guts to be a Christian. In fact in the end times it will really take guts to be a Christian...we will be martyrs.

I understand what you are saying and the only real disagreement that I have with what you are saying here, in particular, is that you are suggesting that I hope scripture is false.

I am not hoping that scripture will be false. It is my expectation that it won't be that has formed my opinion on the subject.

When it says to come out of the world, I do think it is referring to a particular time when there will be a choice that has to be made in order to find an escape from the time to come. To come out of her is to be able to identify a crowd that you don't want to be a part of. Essentially, we are faced with the possibility that the end will look very similar to the account of Elijah. He was the only one who had not compromised himself in order to serve the King of Israel. Just something to think about. Jesus did say that His kingdom is not of this world.

 

[rainerann]

Also, regardless of how scripture says things will turn out according to prophecy. Before this becomes finalized, there is a choice that is made to cause the world to go in this direction, and it is clearly the wrong one based on the outcome we expect. Therefore, are we capable of identifying where the wrong decision is made that propels the world into the fulfillment of prophecy? If I can say, "here, this is why the prophecy says it will end the way it does," is that something to celebrate? So I think it is possible to identify what causes the chain of events that will lead to the day of the Lord with discernment from the Holy Spirit. I think the decision to create the state of Israel is going to lead to revealing the mystery of lawlessness. I don't think there is a way to avoid this, but I will never support this. It is just not something I feel comfortable having on my conscious.

 

[TokiEl]

Perhaps the actual residents of Palestine are being run over by the criminal element, who claim to represent the will of the people.

Yes and that exact same thing would happen if Israel withdrew from the West Bank.

Criminal elements with the will to kill is what filled the power vacuum in Gaza when Israel withdrew in 2005 so perhaps it's time for Israel to take it back.

 

[Lisa]

I understand what you are saying and the only real disagreement that I have with what you are saying here, in particular, is that you are suggesting that I hope scripture is false.

I am not hoping that scripture will be false. It is my expectation that it won't be that has formed my opinion on the subject.

When it says to come out of the world, I do think it is referring to a particular time when there will be a choice that has to be made in order to find an escape from the time to come. To come out of her is to be able to identify a crowd that you don't want to be a part of. Essentially, we are faced with the possibility that the end will look very similar to the account of Elijah. He was the only one who had not compromised himself in order to serve the King of Israel. Just something to think about. Jesus did say that His kingdom is not of this world.

I wasn’t saying that I thought you hope scripture will be false, but that you hope that it could somehow be changed, and my answer is that it can’t. But, I see we agree there.

I think that coming out of her goes a bit further, like come out of her now. Pull away now because you are God’s. Later in time you will have the ultimate choice to make. That’s my take anyway.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I posted this up on the Jerusalem thread, but it is equally relevant here...
As I see it, God owns Jerusalem, and has "put his name on it!".

Given that, he can give it to who he chooses and has done for thousands of years (many of which have not been to Israel, btw)

2 Chronicles 6

"5Since the day that I brought forth my people out of the land of Egypt I chose no city among all the tribes of Israel to build an house in, that my name might be there; neither chose I any man to be a ruler over my people Israel: 6But I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there; and have chosen David to be over my people Israel."

Interesting aside, Shin is the 21st letter of the Jewish alphabet, 7+7+7 - 777 is often a number associated with God. As I read it, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are perfect i.e. 7.





https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/ahabiblemoments.wordpress.com/2017/02/11/the-hebrew-letter-shin/amp/

I was looking into the subject a couple of days ago and came across the following clip.

By the way, I believe what I have just posted up, so if that makes me a "Christian Zionist", so be it.

Matthew 23

"37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Baruch haba b'shem Adonai

 

[Serveto]

Matthew 23

"37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Baruch haba b'shem Adonai

This, if I am reading you accurately, takes us into the apocalyptic calendar. I understand you to be saying, in both English and Hebrew, "blessed is he," as if that time were now, but what about the other character in the drama, the one who is expected to "come in his own name," and whom Jews, according to Christian scriptures, "will accept?"

Isn't he going to cause all the world to take a "mark" on their right hand or forehead and exclude those who refuse to do so from the economic system? I'm not even a Christian, except sort of vestigially and culturally, but I have no intention of taking that mark. As I see it, and unless I start canning and storing some peaches and building a solar-powered homestead soon, that means I can expect to starve to death when he arrives. Even if only out of base motives of self-preservation, doesn't it make sense, then, that if I don't want to see the emergence of a so called "Antichrist," I would oppose the conditions which are necessary to make his arrival possible (the question is open to everybody, for general discussion)?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

This, if I am reading you accurately, takes us into the apocalyptic calendar. I understand you to be saying, in both English and Hebrew, "blessed is he," as if that time were now, but what about the other character in the drama, the one who is expected to "come in his own name," and whom Jews, according to Christian scriptures, "will accept?"

Isn't he going to cause all the world to take a "mark" on their right hand or forehead and exclude those who refuse to do so from the economic system? I'm not even a Christian, except sort of vestigially and culturally, but I have no intention of taking that mark. As I see it, and unless I start canning and storing some peaches and building a solar-powered homestead soon, that means I can expect to starve to death when he arrives. Even if only out of base motives of self-preservation, doesn't it make sense, then, that if I don't want to see the emergence of a so called "Antichrist," I would oppose the conditions which are necessary to make his arrival possible (the question is open to everybody, for general discussion)?

In the words of Bob Dylan, "It's not dark yet, but it's getting there", and just so you know, I have everything in my life that just wants the world to go on as normal! I would rather have lived in 1955, I think ;-)