VCF Christian Fellowship

[A Freeman]

Btw @A Freeman ….

Psalm 106:45 says, "For their sake He remembered His covenant, and relented according to the multitude of His mercies". This verse highlights God's faithfulness to his covenant and his compassion for his people, even when they have been unfaithful.

And why would you assume that Psalm 106:45 is referring to the "Jews" please? Even if we were to ignore the fact that most of the "Jews" in Jesus' day were Idumaean Edomites, who had been converted to Talmudic Judaism c. 105 under John Hyrcanus, and assume that term referred to the tribe of Judah, or to the two-tribed "House of Judah", what about the 10-tribed "House of Israel", which make up the overwhelming majority of the Israelites, with whom God made His Covenants?

Did God not call Ephraim His "Firstborn" (Jer. 31:9)?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@A Freeman

Have you ever heard of deductive reasoning? Imagine a 19th Century novel set in England. In a rural setting Tom the local yeoman is referenced but the writer might reasonably leave out “Tom the British yeoman” without loss of clarity as it is implicit in his locality and station in life. You could take this a step further and to the person who asserts that Tom is French, the burden of truth lies upon them.

Your question kind of reminds me of the popular Islamic question “where does Jesus say ‘I am God, worship me”. Think about it…

 

[A Freeman]

@A Freeman

Have you ever heard of deductive reasoning? Imagine a 19th Century novel set in England. In a rural setting Tom the local yeoman is referenced but the writer might reasonably leave out “Tom the British yeoman” without loss of clarity as it is implicit in his locality and station in life. You could take this a step further and to the person who asserts that Tom is French, the burden of truth lies upon them.

Your question kind of reminds me of the popular Islamic question “where does Jesus say ‘I am God, worship me”. Think about it…

There's no need for anyone to imagine anything. In fact, it's your imagination -- about "Jews" and about Jesus' disciples being martyred when it doesn't say that anywhere in Scripture (nor infer it) -- that is deceiving you (Gen. 6:5).

You're still evading the questions. It's understood you will never answer them directly, because you cannot do so without admitting you believe in and are promoting lies.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

There's no need for anyone to imagine anything. In fact, it's your imagination -- about "Jews" and about Jesus' disciples being martyred when it doesn't say that anywhere in Scripture (nor infer it) -- that is deceiving you (Gen. 6:5).

You're still evading the questions. It's understood you will never answer them directly, because you cannot do so without admitting you believe in and are promoting lies.

I admire your persistence if nothing else.

I don’t see any good reason to conclude that local men living in Judea weren’t Jews, but there is a line that experience has taught me not to cross.

 

[A Freeman]

Christ's cursing of the fig-tree (symbolic of the "Jews" - Jer. 24:5)

Matthew 21:19-21
21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
21:20 And when the disciples saw [it], they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this [which is done] to the Fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this "mountain" (government - Isa. 2:1-4), Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the "sea" (people - Isa. 17:12-13); it shall be done.


The "Jews" confirming the curse on themselves

Matthew 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood [be] on us (the Jews), and on our children (descendants).


The Mission Christ gave to His Disciples:-

Matthew 10:5-6
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and COMMANDED them, saying, Go NOT into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel" (symbolized by the olive tree - Zech. 4; Rom. 11:24-28)


Christ's further condemnation of the "Jews", and all those who support them by promoting their lies:

King of kings' Bible - John 8:35-36 (KJV John 8:44-45)
8:35 Ye are of [YOUR] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father (inventor) of it.
8:36 And because I tell [you] the Truth, ye believe me not.


It should be self-evident that Christ didn't curse His own disciples. It should likewise be self-evident that Christ sent His Disciples to the 10 "Lost Tribes" of the "House of Israel" because they themselves were Israelites from those tribes, which were very obviously scattered abroad ( i.e. NOT in Judaea - James 1:1) , as was the 2-tribed "House of Judah. Further, it should be self-evident from a thorough inspection of Scripture that the 10-tribed "House of Israel" was NEVER referred to as "Jews". Not in the Old Covenant, nor in the New Covenant, nor now.

 

[A Freeman]

And as far as Christ's Disciples, the only prophecy Christ provided us is that Peter would die of old age (in Jerusalem), NOT on an inverted cross in Rome, as Roman Catholicism, and many of the protestant denomination) deceitfully promote.

John 21:18-19
21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst where thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee (i.e. dress thee), and carry [thee] where thou wouldest not.
21:19 This spoke he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

There isn't one single verse that tells us ANY of Jesus' disciples were martyred, either directly or by inference.

If one truly believes that God is all-powerful and all-knowing, then they must logically deduce that the disciples sent out into the world by Christ would have been both well-protected and provided every opportunity to spread the Gospel among the Israelite tribes, as they were COMMANDED to do.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

"House of Israel" was NEVER referred to as "Jews". Not in the Old Covenant, nor in the New Covenant, nor now.

To save you ongoing trouble and keep things concise, what nationality do you believe that Jesus and the disciples were, if not Jewish?

 

[A Freeman]

To save you ongoing trouble and keep things concise, what nationality do you believe that Jesus and the disciples were, if not Jewish?

Jesus' lineage is well-documented, as he was descended from the line of David (Matt. 1:1-17). And David was descended from both the line of Judah and the line of Levi, which made Jesus uniquely eligible to become both King and High-Priest.

With regard to the 12 disciples, they obviously represented all of Israel, which is why they were sent out to their countrymen, instead of to the Gentiles.

The difficulty you're having is shaking the LIE that all Israelites were somehow "Jews", even though Judah was only one of the 12 tribes and certainly NOT the other 11. Further, the "Jews" at the time of Jesus were predominantly Idumaean-Edomites, who were mass-converted by edict under John Hyracanus roughly a century before Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea. That's why the Idumaean-Edomites dominated the ruling body of the "Jews", aka the Great Sanhedrin.

From Obadiah concerning the Edomites -
1:15 For the day of the "I AM" [is] near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
1:16 For as ye have drunk upon My Holy Mountain (Moriah), [so] shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.
1:17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there SHALL be HOLINESS; and the House of Jacob shall possess their possessions.
1:18 And the House of Jacob shall be a fire, and the House of Joseph a flame, and the House of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be [any] remaining of the House of Esau; for the "I AM" hath spoken [it].

 

[A Freeman]

Over 95 Scriptural birthmarks of the Israelites during the latter-days:-

The Scriptural Marks of True Israel

There are at least 95 Scriptural “birth-marks” describing the TRUE people Israel, by which to identify them during the latter days.

gibraltar-messenger.net

Concerning what Scripture tells us about them which say they are Jews but are NOT:-

Them Which Say They Are Jews But Are NOT

An honest look at modern Jewry and its global impact, which cuts through the hatred and lies that surround true Israel and their King: The Messiah.

gibraltar-messenger.net

Isaiah 1:17-18
1:17 Learn to do well; seek Judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the "I AM": though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

The difficulty you're having is shaking the LIE that all Israelites were somehow "Jews"…

I think the British Israelite view requires an adherent to expand on the “Lost Tribes” of Isreal concept (making a connection with Britain using tenuous linguistic homology) while marginalising and denigrating the term “Jew” as a subset of Israelites that have been later further corrupted (Protocols, Khazarians etc etc)

From the Bible it would seem that after the exile, members of the 10 tribes were never really “lost” but instead returned and mixed with the wider Jewish population of the south.

What happened to the lost tribes of Israel? | GotQuestions.org

What happened to the lost tribes of Israel? Were the 10 northern tribes of Israel really even lost?

www.gotquestions.org

At this point, it would seem that the various terms would come to be used in a more fluid way. If you want to call the disciples Israelis, that’s fine with me. Perhaps “Native Hebrew descendants of Abraham, Issac and Jacob” or NHDAIJ’s would clear up (though be harder to remember?