What Is Monotheism Really About?

[Etagloc]

They were written down by people.

I'm just waiting for the next one to drop.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@mecca and @Etagloc ... I don't normally watch Anonymous with a view to them saying anything sensible, but on this occasion the "package" of views they presented were really on-point to this discussion...

 

[Etagloc]

@mecca and @Etagloc ... I don't normally watch Anonymous with a view to them saying anything sensible, but on this occasion the "package" of views they presented were really on-point to this discussion...

okay but what did they say? i dont have the data for a 13 minute video

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

okay but what did they say? i dont have the data for a 13 minute video

Lol - I would have to give you a 2000 word essay! Perhaps I could describe it as a range of voices from different perspectives that explore the concept of "truth" in a "post-truth" world?

 

[JoChris]

I'm just waiting for the next one to drop.

There have been quite a few pseudo-Christian cults who have done just that.
An USA example: The Book of Mormon. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon

 

[Etagloc]

Lol - I would have to give you a 2000 word essay! Perhaps I could describe it as a range of voices from different perspectives that explore the concept of "truth" in a "post-truth" world?

Look... I'm not a relativist. I don't believe there is no truth.

I don't believe there's multiple truths. I'm not a New Ager.

I just don't think that I have to go through Middle Eastern people- or any other people- to get to God.

I don't believe "salvation is of the Jews" or any other other group of people. I don't believe that there's some other group of people who have God on speed-dial and I have to go through them.

I think we can access God directly and we don't need intermediaries.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Look... I'm not a relativist. I don't believe there is no truth.

I don't believe there's multiple truths. I'm not a New Ager.

I just don't think that I have to go through Middle Eastern people- or any other people- to get to God.

I don't believe "salvation is of the Jews" or any other other group of people. I don't believe that there's some other group of people who have God on speed-dial and I have to go through them.

I think we can access God directly and we don't need intermediaries.

If we were without sin, I would have to agree with you.

 

[Etagloc]

I'm not a fuzzy New Ager who believes truth is relative.... I have a theory of God and religion and all that, it's just very complicated.

I think shamanism was the first religion and the source of all the other religions.

We can access higher states of consciousness and we can experience the spiritual realities directly.

If we can access higher dimensions directly, we don't need a book. And I think that's where the religions came from. People experienced higher states of consciousness and those books came about describing what people saw.

And honestly I think it's because we live in some sort of kali yuga type period that we are so disconnected... that we rely on other peoples' books and experiences to know higher reality... I think in earlier periods, people had a direct connection- books wouldn't have been necessary.

If you take ayahuasca, for example.... you're not gonna need a book to tell you about what you're seeing. You'll see it directly.

I've never taken ayahuasca but I've taken psychedelics and honestly, I think if more people tried psychedelics, they would have a very different understanding of religion....

You see for yourself that higher states of consciousness are possible. I'm not talking about just in the sense of taking psychedelics.... look at Muhammad. He went to a cave to be alone and meditate. Even in a lot of Muslim religious practices..... that stuff is powerful.

I think probably Muhammad saw some stuff and that a lot of those ancient spiritual people... that they saw some stuff. And that's where those scriptures came from. People went beyond ordinary consciousness and they saw some stuff.

And that stuff- it objectively exists- it's not just fantasy. That's why all the religions are so parallel to each other.

But...... if you take acid or you experience some altered state of consciousness- or even if you just smoke some weed- you know that it doesn't just translate to everyday words. That's probably why the Book of Revelation is ao hard to understand. I'm sure he probably really did see some stuff but whatever he saw was so outside of ordinary experience, that he probably didn't have the language to put in ordinary words.

And that's why.... even with a movie, for example. You can read the VC article on a movie.... and you can read five different articles by five different authors on the same movie... all five articles are going to be different- the movie is the same but it's going to be differently described by different authors. That's why all the scriptures seem contradictory yet run so parallel.

And so the answer is to attain that higher state of consciousness. I'm not saying through ayahuasca. It can be through reading the Quran and meditating, whatever..... there's different ways of going about it.

But ultimately, you have to see the movie for yourself. Once you've seen for yourself, you're not going to mistake the VC article for the movie itself. All those ancient scriptures are just maps. They're not the road itself.

 

[Etagloc]

Basically, I agree with what this guy was talking about.






and what this book describes- I think this book pretty much gives the best explanation of religion that I've read

 

[Etagloc]

If we were without sin, I would have to agree with you.

And even you seem to have a concept that corresponds with what I'm talking about... Adam had a direct connection with God... he didn't need priests or scriptures....

we are living in a dark period and how Adam was- I think that is how we we as humans were prior to the dark period.... at the moment we are banished from the garden (state of nature) and cut off from our natural, direct connection.... and that that is what we will be returning to as we leave the dark period

 

[Etagloc]

Shamanism is the original religion. And shamanism is the source that all the other religions flowed from. Some people, some where, in some ancient times saw some stuff- and what they saw ended up in books. That was where the religions came from.

 

[JoChris]

I'm not a fuzzy New Ager who believes truth is relative.... I have a theory of God and religion and all that, it's just very complicated.

I think shamanism was the first religion and the source of all the other religions.

We can access higher states of consciousness and we can experience the spiritual realities directly.

If we can access higher dimensions directly, we don't need a book. And I think that's where the religions came from. People experienced higher states of consciousness and those books came about describing what people saw.

And honestly I think it's because we live in some sort of kali yuga type period that we are so disconnected... that we rely on other peoples' books and experiences to know higher reality... I think in earlier periods, people had a direct connection- books wouldn't have been necessary.

If you take ayahuasca, for example.... you're not gonna need a book to tell you about what you're seeing. You'll see it directly.

I've never taken ayahuasca but I've taken psychedelics and honestly, I think if more people tried psychedelics, they would have a very different understanding of religion....

You see for yourself that higher states of consciousness are possible. I'm not talking about just in the sense of taking psychedelics.... look at Muhammad. He went to a cave to be alone and meditate. Even in a lot of Muslim religious practices..... that stuff is powerful.

I think probably Muhammad saw some stuff and that a lot of those ancient spiritual people... that they saw some stuff. And that's where those scriptures came from. People went beyond ordinary consciousness and they saw some stuff.

And that stuff- it objectively exists- it's not just fantasy. That's why all the religions are so parallel to each other.

But...... if you take acid or you experience some altered state of consciousness- or even if you just smoke some weed- you know that it doesn't just translate to everyday words. That's probably why the Book of Revelation is ao hard to understand. I'm sure he probably really did see some stuff but whatever he saw was so outside of ordinary experience, that he probably didn't have the language to put in ordinary words.

And that's why.... even with a movie, for example. You can read the VC article on a movie.... and you can read five different articles by five different authors on the same movie... all five articles are going to be different- the movie is the same but it's going to be differently described by different authors. That's why all the scriptures seem contradictory yet run so parallel.

And so the answer is to attain that higher state of consciousness. I'm not saying through ayahuasca. It can be through reading the Quran and meditating, whatever..... there's different ways of going about it.

But ultimately, you have to see the movie for yourself. Once you've seen for yourself, you're not going to mistake the VC article for the movie itself. All those ancient scriptures are just maps. They're not the road itself.

You are mistaking experience for truth. Beliefs formed due to chemical misfirings in the brain, hypnosis or autosuggestion should be viewed with great suspicion.

If feelings of enlightenment (whether natural or drug-induced) are all that are required for you to become a believer, what is stopping you from becoming a Scientologi$t (assuming you've got lots of $$$$ to go through to OT8+), a UFOlogist or a general New Ager?

 

[Etagloc]

I'm not talking about "feelings". If you've messed with psychedelic stuff, you know what I'm talking about. If you haven't, you don't. It's not something you can understand if you haven't. No one can explain it to you if you haven't experienced it directly.

 

[Etagloc]

You are mistaking experience for truth.

What a great slogan for monotheistic religion.

 

[Etagloc]

And a believer? A believer in what? In what particular thing am I a believer of? I am not of any particular religion.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

And a believer? A believer in what? In what particular thing am I a believer of? I am not of any particular religion.

I had a lot of respect for Francis Schaffer... He had a Christian upbringing but reached a crisis point where he questioned what he believed and why he believed it. It is not wrong to do this, and for anyone who is intellectually credible, it is a point you must reach and a question you must answer.

He went on to write a book I read 20 years ago entitled "The God Who Is There"...

 

[Aero]

I think that any scripture is a good learning tool. As well as any religion, but to take them any further is dangerous. To me that's like pinning yourself into a box. It's a very comfortable box, but one that will inevitably implode. Maybe a person can hold the box up with their own force, but it will be under constant pressure.

Why live like that? Like having your beliefs and worldview be under constant pressurized attacks. Constantly having to reassure yourself that your belief is true. We can avoid that very simply, by being humble. By saying that we don't know the full truth of the universe. By not binding ourselves to this box other people created.

Don't mistake what makes you the most comfortable with the truth.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I think that any scripture is a good learning tool. As well as any religion, but to take them any further is dangerous. To me that's like pinning yourself into a box. It's a very comfortable box, but one that will inevitably implode. Maybe a person can hold the box up with their own force, but it will be under constant pressure.

Why live like that? Like having your beliefs and worldview be under constant pressurized attacks. Constantly having to reassure yourself that your belief is true. We can avoid that very simply, by being humble. By saying that we don't know the full truth of the universe. By not binding ourselves to this box other people created.

Don't mistake what makes you the most comfortable with the truth.

For "spiritual" things to be true, is it logical that they have to be ill-defined? Is it possible that the One who understands everything could provide people he loves with revelation sufficient to understand something of him?

To be a real person, you are necessarily one thing and not it's opposite...

 

[Aero]

For "spiritual" things to be true, is it logical that they have to be ill-defined? Is it possible that the One who understands everything could provide people he loves with revelation sufficient to understand something of him?

To be a real person, you are necessarily one thing and not it's opposite...

Idk if I'm following what you're saying. Mainly because Monotheism is the opposite of ill defined. They tell you what is spiritually true, and people either believe it or they don't. Like it doesn't get any more simpler than Jesus Christ dying for our sins. For the believers it's a comforting story, without much room for misinterpretation.

If you question the doctrine you are than not a Christian. You are a new ager or a satanist or some other weird thing. So by putting your beliefs behind one thing, you are only setting yourself up for disappointment. You are inviting doubt, stress, and guilt into your life. Maybe you find some spiritual truth, or God does reveal himself to you. But like I've said before. People find God from staring at an octopus for too long. And it didn't take a buildup of stress, doubt and guilt to do it.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Aero ... Put another way, and without being prescriptive here, how do you sit with the notion of a specific God (or gods, if the inclination takes you) with genuine attributes who is / are real, as you and I are real?