What Is Monotheism Really About?

Etagloc

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@Etagloc ...

The parable of the tax collector and the pharasee was told to a group of people who had lived there whole lives for the most part adhering to the law.

On the other hand, they had the sacrificial system which reminded them of sin and consequence. Somehow, so many of them failed to put the implications together.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/parable-Pharisee-tax-collector.html

With your comments on spiritual experience, I feel that if you search for truth, experience follows (and I have had many confirmations of this) but if you seek for experience, deception follows, and I have spoke with many who have found this to be true at there cost.
Well.... I'm not particularly out searching for experience. I've done some crazy stuff and had some interesting experience but I'm not out to go and have crazy experiences. Trust me, my idea of "turning up" is drinking some coffee. And I do smoke weed for medical reasons and I've been smoking weed since I was 13 and I've gone for long periods without it. I've maybe smoked once in the past few months. I'm not addicted and I haven't had anything bad happen except maybe finding stuff funny and eating everything in the fridge.

In any case, we come here (to earth) and we have experiences right? God must have intended us to have experiences, right? And we respect old people because they've had experience?

Trust me, I'm not a hedonist. Like I said, my idea of "turning up" is drinking some coffee. I'm not really "seeking experiences". And the idea that experience and truth are somehow opposed is strange. Truth and experience go together. You learn from experience.
 
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Etagloc

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@Etagloc ...

The parable of the tax collector and the pharasee was told to a group of people who had lived there whole lives for the most part adhering to the law.

On the other hand, they had the sacrificial system which reminded them of sin and consequence. Somehow, so many of them failed to put the implications together.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/parable-Pharisee-tax-collector.html
Can you simply put in plain, direct words why a Christian p***phile deserves to go to heaven while a devout, sincere Muslim woman who is pure in heart deserves to burn in hell for eternity?

I think your parable is a non sequitur. Perhaps I'm not smart enough to understand how it answers my question. Please spell it out for me.

Please explain why the Christian p***phile deserves to go to heaven while the devout Muslim woman who is sincere and (for sake of argument, we'll say) has made an honest mistake and sincerely believes her religion is true deserves to go to hell.

Please explain this in simple, plain direct words and please explain how this is a beauitful teaching. Please don't give a link or a quote- please explain in your own simple, direct words.

And do you believe the Christian p***phile deserves to go to heaven while the devout and sincere Muslim woman deserves to burn in hell for eternity? Does that strike you as beautiful? Do you personally believe it is just? It doesn't bother you at all?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@Etagloc

For me it comes down to what God wants. It is the "why" question of salvation. Everyone knows John 3 16...

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

God loves us. He walked in the garden with Adam in the evening. Sin cut that relationship as God is holy, and sin cannot ensure his presence.

Any sin.

Some sins offend us far more than others, but for God, any sin comes between him and fellowship with us. Rather than set a bar at "very good" he sets the standard at perfection, then pays the price himself!

He does this because he loves each one of us. Not all will accept that they need salvation like this, and sometimes it takes us reaching the point where we actually break our own low standards to finally admit we are sinners in need of a Saviour!

Is God fair to have placed the sins of the whole world, past, present and future on his own Son? The extravagance of it to me is a reflection of His love.


Lee Strobel puts it far better than me...

"Every other faith system I studied during my investigation was based on the “do” plan. In other words, it was necessary for people to do something—for example, use a Tibetan prayer wheel, pay alms, go on pilgrimages, undergo reincarnations, work off karma from past misdeeds, reform their character—to try to somehow earn their way back to God. Despite their best efforts, lots of sincere people just wouldn’t make it. Christianity is unique. It’s based on the “done” plan—Jesus has done for us on the cross what we cannot do for ourselves: he has paid the death penalty that we deserve for our rebellion and wrongdoing, so we can become reconciled with God. I didn’t have to struggle and strive to try to do the impossible of making myself worthy. Over and over the Bible says that Jesus offers forgiveness and eternal life as a free gift that cannot be earned (see Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:8–9; Titus 3:5). It’s called grace—amazing grace, unmerited favor. It’s available to anyone who receives it in a sincere prayer of repentance. Even someone like me."

BUT - What of reward?

Christians often fail to properly state this. Having seen you need a Saviour, there is, and should be acknowledgement of your own acts of goodness and sanctification. Our works will be judged and our good deeds rewarded. The Bible is quite explicit in saying that those who have works of straw and stubble, rather than silver and gold will arrive in heaven with empty hands, having had their works burned up.

Picture the scene of having been invited to the most amazing banquet the world has ever known and presenting the host with a stale sandwich just behind a guest who passes an amazing box of chocolates and you won't even come close!
 

Karlysymon

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@Etagloc

you're like my favorite person-of-the-moment. Iam going to put together a proper response to your posts in a little while...
 

rainerann

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Can you simply put in plain, direct words why a Christian p***phile deserves to go to heaven while a devout, sincere Muslim woman who is pure in heart deserves to burn in hell for eternity?

I think your parable is a non sequitur. Perhaps I'm not smart enough to understand how it answers my question. Please spell it out for me.

Please explain why the Christian p***phile deserves to go to heaven while the devout Muslim woman who is sincere and (for sake of argument, we'll say) has made an honest mistake and sincerely believes her religion is true deserves to go to hell.

Please explain this in simple, plain direct words and please explain how this is a beauitful teaching. Please don't give a link or a quote- please explain in your own simple, direct words.

And do you believe the Christian p***phile deserves to go to heaven while the devout and sincere Muslim woman deserves to burn in hell for eternity? Does that strike you as beautiful? Do you personally believe it is just? It doesn't bother you at all?
You keep using this reference of a Christian p***phile which indicates that you do not understand simple things about Christianity. Understanding how salvation works is an elementary principle. I also find it interesting that you keep referring to this because you seem pretty familiar with the subject of religion overall. So, I don't even know whether or not to take you seriously when you bring this up. It seems like you should already know the Bible's position on this subject. You have frequently tried to bring up what Christianity teaches when I have talked to you and will make at least one comparison to what you think the religion says in response to something I said that you thought contradicted this in every conversation I have with you.

I just don't know whether to believe that this is a sincere concern for you.

Either way, considering that someone might see you saying something this ridiculous that doesn't know about Christianity the way I have seen you already comment on the subject. I have seen you speak of Christianity with more familiarity than this comment indicates many times.

In any case, I will try to explain the process a p***phile would have to go through to be saved.

Step one: They would have to confess their sin.

Now, some people think the confession of sin is useless argument to support the complaint in question because what if someone confesses the sin of p***philia and they are not sincere? They act like the Bible is teaching that if a person confesses sin insincerely, he will still be forgiven and go to Heaven.

The truth is that a person might confess their sin insincerely, but I can't control what people do, and I don't have a crystal ball to tell you where this leads. Even if it is sincere, the story of David teaches us that forgiveness of sin does not mean the elimination of consequences.

I also know that the Bible says that we can end up without reward at the end of our lives, even if we remain saved (1 Corinthians 3:11-15).

The point is that we are not saved by believing that Jesus is the Son of God without confession of sin. In order to be saved, a p***phile would have to say that sexual abuse of children was a sin. Then, they would have to repent of this sin by turning to Christ as a source of life. For many people, sin is a source of life. You cannot have life in Christ if you are trying to find life through sin. The Bible describes this state as being double-minded. There are Proverbs about double-mindedness and the book of James addresses this subject as well (James 1:6-8).

So a p***phile would have to confess his sin and repent, which is defined as turning away from sin. This is a very basic principle that is often neglected when trying to defend other beliefs by suggesting that Christianity does not provide adequate consequences. People like to just say Christians think people are forgiven if they believe in Jesus. Well, no, we believe they are forgiven when they confess and repent through Christ. To say through Christ is to say that you are following a teaching of Christ. It is Christ's teaching that we should repent.

The concept of confession is integrated throughout the Bible. The Psalms relate many examples of confession. The prayer Solomon gives when he is consecrating the temple specifically asks God to forgive the people of their sins when the people confess them and repent (1 Kings 8:46-52).

If someone who was a p***phile confesses their sin, he is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9).

So it is possible for even a p***phile to be forgiven through Christ. Although, just because it is possible, doesn't mean it happens often. This sort of confession is like an altered state of consciousness you are referring to experiencing with drugs that is referred to as being born again within church vocabulary.

This is not simply a sorry, I won't do it again. It is the recognition that beyond this life there stands a judge who wants to pardon your sin, but won't without confession of sin through Christ. It is really a very scary moment when you realize what God can take away and what your life could become if you continue to sin.

This isn't like a trip to the park, it is a real spiritual experience much like the experiences of a Shaman you keep referencing. It was thought that a Shaman would have an experience with God. Being born again is very similar to this description.

This moment is when the Proverb starts to make sense when it says that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Could someone who was a p***phile experience this? Yes, they could in theory, but this isn't some joyous day. This is a day where you recognize the weight of sin and feel how it can bear down on your life. You will see the weight of your sin that Jesus takes from you if you are sincere in your confession at least once. I still think about this experience often. It is not something I re-experience, but it is something that I clearly remember that affects my choices on a regular basis. This moment creates such an interruption in your life, that nothing is the same after this.

So there are some things I think people avoid confessing because of how actually difficult it is to face sin according to the description in the New Testament. The sin of p***philia is one of them, and this is demonstrated by a high suicide rate whenever there is the possibility they might face legal consequences for their crimes.

Confessing sin and accepting forgiveness through Christ is really a lot more like facing legal consequences than going to a park with an ice cream cone thinking because you don't have to worry about sin if Jesus died on the cross. To think that this is what the Bible teaches is a false teaching. To teach something false is to lie. To lie is to sin, and this is what makes repentance of sin so difficult. It changes every aspect of your life. That is too much work for some people.

So, the point is that Confession is a prerequisite to receiving forgiveness of sin, period. To say otherwise is to be a false teacher of the Gospel.

You may not agree, and this is fine with me, but my belief is not a set of watered down consequences for pedophiles to take advantage of. I believe in a spiritual experience that removes sin and alters my state of consciousness towards a new direction. I just refer to this as being born again and repenting, but it means the same thing in reality.
 

JoChris

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You keep using this reference of a Christian p***phile which indicates that you do not understand simple things about Christianity. Understanding how salvation works is an elementary principle. I also find it interesting that you keep referring to this because you seem pretty familiar with the subject of religion overall. So, I don't even know whether or not to take you seriously when you bring this up. It seems like you should already know the Bible's position on this subject. You have frequently tried to bring up what Christianity teaches when I have talked to you and will make at least one comparison to what you think the religion says in response to something I said that you thought contradicted this in every conversation I have with you.

I just don't know whether to believe that this is a sincere concern for you.

Either way, considering that someone might see you saying something this ridiculous that doesn't know about Christianity the way I have seen you already comment on the subject. I have seen you speak of Christianity with more familiarity than this comment indicates many times.

In any case, I will try to explain the process a p***phile would have to go through to be saved.

Step one: They would have to confess their sin.

Now, some people think the confession of sin is useless argument to support the complaint in question because what if someone confesses the sin of p***philia and they are not sincere? They act like the Bible is teaching that if a person confesses sin insincerely, he will still be forgiven and go to Heaven.

The truth is that a person might confess their sin insincerely, but I can't control what people do, and I don't have a crystal ball to tell you where this leads. Even if it is sincere, the story of David teaches us that forgiveness of sin does not mean the elimination of consequences.

I also know that the Bible says that we can end up without reward at the end of our lives, even if we remain saved (1 Corinthians 3:11-15).

The point is that we are not saved by believing that Jesus is the Son of God without confession of sin. In order to be saved, a p***phile would have to say that sexual abuse of children was a sin. Then, they would have to repent of this sin by turning to Christ as a source of life. For many people, sin is a source of life. You cannot have life in Christ if you are trying to find life through sin. The Bible describes this state as being double-minded. There are Proverbs about double-mindedness and the book of James addresses this subject as well (James 1:6-8).

So a p***phile would have to confess his sin and repent, which is defined as turning away from sin. This is a very basic principle that is often neglected when trying to defend other beliefs by suggesting that Christianity does not provide adequate consequences. People like to just say Christians think people are forgiven if they believe in Jesus. Well, no, we believe they are forgiven when they confess and repent through Christ. To say through Christ is to say that you are following a teaching of Christ. It is Christ's teaching that we should repent.

The concept of confession is integrated throughout the Bible. The Psalms relate many examples of confession. The prayer Solomon gives when he is consecrating the temple specifically asks God to forgive the people of their sins when the people confess them and repent (1 Kings 8:46-52).

If someone who was a p***phile confesses their sin, he is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9).

So it is possible for even a p***phile to be forgiven through Christ. Although, just because it is possible, doesn't mean it happens often. This sort of confession is like an altered state of consciousness you are referring to experiencing with drugs that is referred to as being born again within church vocabulary.

This is not simply a sorry, I won't do it again. It is the recognition that beyond this life there stands a judge who wants to pardon your sin, but won't without confession of sin through Christ. It is really a very scary moment when you realize what God can take away and what your life could become if you continue to sin.

This isn't like a trip to the park, it is a real spiritual experience much like the experiences of a Shaman you keep referencing. It was thought that a Shaman would have an experience with God. Being born again is very similar to this description.

This moment is when the Proverb starts to make sense when it says that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Could someone who was a p***phile experience this? Yes, they could in theory, but this isn't some joyous day. This is a day where you recognize the weight of sin and feel how it can bear down on your life. You will see the weight of your sin that Jesus takes from you if you are sincere in your confession at least once. I still think about this experience often. It is not something I re-experience, but it is something that I clearly remember that affects my choices on a regular basis. This moment creates such an interruption in your life, that nothing is the same after this.

So there are some things I think people avoid confessing because of how actually difficult it is to face sin according to the description in the New Testament. The sin of p***philia is one of them, and this is demonstrated by a high suicide rate whenever there is the possibility they might face legal consequences for their crimes.

Confessing sin and accepting forgiveness through Christ is really a lot more like facing legal consequences than going to a park with an ice cream cone thinking because you don't have to worry about sin if Jesus died on the cross. To think that this is what the Bible teaches is a false teaching. To teach something false is to lie. To lie is to sin, and this is what makes repentance of sin so difficult. It changes every aspect of your life. That is too much work for some people.

So, the point is that Confession is a prerequisite to receiving forgiveness of sin, period. To say otherwise is to be a false teacher of the Gospel.

You may not agree, and this is fine with me, but my belief is not a set of watered down consequences for pedophiles to take advantage of. I believe in a spiritual experience that removes sin and alters my state of consciousness towards a new direction. I just refer to this as being born again and repenting, but it means the same thing in reality.
1000++. :)
 

Aero

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Didn't I talk about showing Mercy to pedos and it was like an outrage? I guess it's because I didn't talk about sending them to a "spiritual jail". A jail that is completely dependent on forces that can't be measured. A jail that doesn't give victims any sense of justice whatsoever. So what I'm really wondering is. What's the difference if God kicks them in the nuts, or I do? At least if I do it, I can tell you all about it. Like you could stop pretending magic man in the sky is going to make it all better. Because he's not.

It's all a bit hypocritical and a convenient way out for Christians. It's probably a big factor in the whole white privilege thing. Oh we can't prosecute this white boy, his family are good Christians. They will repent and go to Church. Give the rapist a pass! It's a joke and if anyone want's to tell me stories about this "spiritual jail" I am all ears. But I think it's a figment of your imagination. It's a clever rouse of wrapping escapism in spirituality.

And I agree with the notion of escaping this world though. I just think there is a difference between escaping for real, and in your imagination. I believe we need to take responsibility for ourselves and our communities. Like be the masters of our own destiny.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Didn't I talk about showing Mercy to pedos and it was like an outrage? I guess it's because I didn't talk about sending them to a "spiritual jail". A jail that is completely dependent on forces that can't be measured. A jail that doesn't give victims any sense of justice whatsoever. So what I'm really wondering is. What's the difference if God kicks them in the nuts, or I do? At least if I do it, I can tell you all about it. Like you could stop pretending magic man in the sky is going to make it all better. Because he's not.

It's all a bit hypocritical and a convenient way out for Christians. It's probably a big factor in the whole white privilege thing. Oh we can't prosecute this white boy, his family are good Christians. They will repent and go to Church. Give the rapist a pass! It's a joke and if anyone want's to tell me stories about this "spiritual jail" I am all ears. But I think it's a figment of your imagination. It's a clever rouse of wrapping escapism in spirituality.

And I agree with the notion of escaping this world though. I just think there is a difference between escaping for real, and in your imagination. I believe we need to take responsibility for ourselves and our communities. Like be the masters of our own destiny.
From the perspective of the state, a Christian, repentant murderer should still be given the full force of the law, as they have transgressed the standards of society.

From a divine perspective, the standard of His law remains and you are guilty before Him, in your sins. Without a Saviour, no jail time in the world would pay that price. Unless the price for our sin had been paid, none of us could receive forgiveness.

This is why Jesus could say that the Law would never pass away, but also that he came to fulfil the Law.
 

Aero

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From the perspective of the state, a Christian, repentant murderer should still be given the full force of the law, as they have transgressed the standards of society.

From a divine perspective, the standard of His law remains and you are guilty before Him, in your sins. Without a Saviour, no jail time in the world would pay that price. Unless the price for our sin had been paid, none of us could receive forgiveness.

This is why Jesus could say that the Law would never pass away, but also that he came to fulfil the Law.
Well we definitely agree about the courts. And these things should be separate.

I think that the concept of Sin is another relative mystery. Some of you really seem to get it, but my feelings are a lot different. Sure some sins are obvious, but a lot of it seems like a litmus test. A way to try to measure each others faith or belief. If this is some unique thing, it's unique because the Christians just made it up, or transformed it. It's a word that describes a category, and it can be interchanged with tons of different words.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Well we definitely agree about the courts. And these things should be separate.

I think that the concept of Sin is another relative mystery. Some of you really seem to get it, but my feelings are a lot different. Sure some sins are obvious, but a lot of it seems like a litmus test. A way to try to measure each others faith or belief. If this is some unique thing, it's unique because the Christians just made it up, or transformed it. It's a word that describes a category, and it can be interchanged with tons of different words.
I put the moment in my life when I understood "sin" in the Testimony thread a while back...

https://www.vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/my-testimony.403/page-2#post-36954
 
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TMT

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Where are you getting the impression that death is something new without an exploration of death as an unnatural event that causes a spiritual man to become separated from a physical one?

When does evolutionary science support the notion that there is anything new to look forward to as the result of death?

In order for there to be something new caused by death, you need to accept the possibility of a spirit. When or how does a spirit evolve and why doesn't science seek to answer these questions?

If science doesn't answer these question and religion doesn't seek to answer questions about the structure of a cell, why are religions condemned for seeking to understand how life continues after death and becomes this new experience you speak of?

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with religion as a method of seeking understanding of this subject. I would actually consider evolutionary a form of monotheism in this regard, because there is no other form of discussion that can be introduced to the person who believes in evolution. Everything is explained through this, and you are actually suggesting that everything is not explained through this, because there is no way for evolution to explain the separation of the spirit from the physical body at death or why this happens.

I can believe in evolution and a "spirit" essentially it's just returning to the timeless energy source that was always existing matter of the big bang or the always existing "God" of creation. I'm not an Atheist either, at least in the sense that you are thinking of. God, Gods, and Godesses are just representations of natural cycles and parts of the human psyche.

No, evolutionary science does not necessarily support my beliefs on what happens after we die. but it doesn't contradict them either.

I know that reason and human intellect will only take you so far, but the answer isn't Christ or Mohammad.
 

TMT

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Is religion a (mind) control tool?
This is a long post that i originally put up here.
******
Note: I greatly respect Jan Irvin and his work despite the fact that he may lean towards the conspiracy that Rome dreamed up Christianity as a form of control.
******

Iam interested in how MKULTRA is being applied to the mass. All
research into this matter shows that that was or is the intended
goal. The victims in countless
labs were used to refine the
process. In this EXCELLENT paper
by Jan Irvin, his research reveals a rarely
mentioned aspect of MKULTRA.
That the CIA/Military, in putting
together their 60's counter- culture movement, they would
'use' drugs in two ways:

1). declare a war on drugs
because 'the forbidden always
has a charm' and in this way,
the youth would be enticed (thus 'manufacturing their
deadhead'-another great paper)
but also provide reason for a let
up in laws in the future.

From Koestler I learned
about
juvenilization, the
theory that evolution
occurs not in the adult
(final form) of a species but in juveniles, larvals,
adolescents, pre-adults.
The practical conclusion:
if you want to bring about
mutations in a species,
work with the young. Koestler’s teaching about
paedomorphosis prepared
me to understand the
genetic implications of the
1960s youth movement
and its rejection of the old culture ~
Timothy Leary

2). The CIA (behind celebrities,
doctors, Terrence Mckenna,
Timothy Leary, Gordon Wasson
etc) would also lie to the public
by claiming that by taking
, soma, LSD, 'shrooms, you name it, they would grow spiritually
and attain godhood.

“The problem is
tricky,” I said. “The
opposition beat us to the
punch. The psychiatrists
and police propagandists
have already stressed the negative (of psychedelics),
which can be dangerous
when the mind is re-
imprinting under..... It’s
like the over-solicitous
mother who warned her kids not to push peanuts
up their noses.”
“Exactly,” agreed[Marshal]
McLuhan. “That’s why your
advertising must stress the
religious. Find the god within. This is all frightfully
interesting. Your
competitors are naturally
denouncing the brain as an
instrument of the devil.
Priceless!~
Timothy Leary

Which explains why there is
growing number of people
journeying to the Amazon to
seek out shamans and gain
much publicized spiritual
experiences (others have noted the uptick since the 60s with
many celebrities subscribing to
eastern mysticism). Now, iam
not here with a bull horn, going
off on anyone who is doing this
and has done it before but i think we all need to sit down
and take an honest, objective
look at how we are being
manipulated and how much we
have bought into their lies. TPTB
are doing everything in their power to put us to sleep, for the
mass to be a dead-head
whether through , prescription
pills (addiction), water
fluoridation, contrabands et al.
We've been held down on a giant hospital bed, in for a
lobotomy.
I then asked myself, could this
be behind more states
(American) and Uruguay
legalizing recreational marijuana use? Amsterdam in
Holland is well known for that.
Why now? How does the state
benefit from all this? Do they
care so much about little me
enough to grant me that right? Have the activists finally won
because the War on Drugs is un
winnable and legalization is the
best path? Turns out
1percenters are in it to win it.
Monsanto and George Soros made sure that the legislation in
Uruguay
was passed.
In the weird world of MKULTRA, spooks, drugs and pseudo-
spirituality all collide. And even
before the project was given
birth, Aldous Huxley mentions
in Brave New World that Soma
will be at the ready for those who encounter those moments,
when one desires to reach out
to God. Soma will satiate the
spiritual longing or hunger in
that 'new world'. So i ask, have
we entered that world or are we at the threshold??? It has
also given birth to 'native
revivalism'
. A century ago, in
the West, things to do with
shamans were synonymous
with third world or primitive cultures. Things are certainly
different now.
Jan Irvin writes: Some of you may be
thinking right about now,
or you have been for some
time, “well,
psychedelics and
mushrooms DO generate religious and
spiritual experiences!”
Well, as we’ve seen
throughout this paper,and
it really shouldn’t be all
that much of a surprise by now, much
of that assumption
appears to have been
public relations too.
The
topic of dark
shamanism should also be mentioned, but is too vast
for this article, so I offer a
brief
quote from Prof. Neil
Whitehead and Dr. Robin
Wright instead: Amazonian shamanism is
not a loving animism, as
its middle-class urban
vulgate want us to believe.
It is better understood as a
predatory animism: subjectivity is attributed to
human and non-human
entities, with whom some
people are capable of
interacting verbally and
establishing relationships of adoption or alliance,
which permit them to act
upon the world in order to
cure, to fertilize, and to kill.
[…] "

In pondering the subject matter,
i curiously found that most
movements or 'faiths' outside of
true Christianity have this real
obsession with reaching
apotheosis (to become god or generate the god within). It is
the final stage in evolution, New
Ageism, Freemasonry,
Luciferianism, et al. Certainly in
a quote above, McLuhan and
Leary play on a weakness in man that runs very deep
[yeezus, the Hov, anyone?]. I can
understand because it is the one
lie that humanity has
steadfastly held onto. They
employed the Fallen Archangel's age-old trick
"For God doth know that in the
day ye eat thereof, then your
eyes shall be opened, and y e
shall be as gods, knowing good
and evil." Genesis 3:5
In evolution, transhumanism is
the stage before apotheosis.
Thanks to the elites.

"Evolution is a spiritual
process
and makes us more
godlike"~
Ray Kurzweil [Google's
head of engineering]

Human cloning researcher,
Richard Seed; "We are
going to become Gods.
Period. If you don't like it,
get off. You don't have to
contribute; you don't have to participate. But if you're
going to interfere with me
becoming God, we're
going to have big trouble.
Then we'll have warfare."


A persistent oddity i have
noticed is how many renowned,
learned men and women all
subscribe to evolution publicly
but quietly acknowledge a
spiritual side of man. T.H Huxley,Julian (coined the word
Transhumanism) and Aldous
Huxley were all evolutionists.
Why does he mention that
curiosity in his dystopic novel.
Which in fact isn't fiction but a blue print for the world being
crafted for us. These are the
same people who 'spirit
cook',who stage events on or
around dates with religious
significance. Why cater to the spiritual self if its non-existent?
We see it again with CERN and
the statue of Shiva in front of
the building. If we all evolved,
how do we account for the
existence of man's spiritual self? Why are we seeking out
shamans? Why does an entire
industry (in India) exist around
Eat Pray Love?
I ask again, would all this have
been possible unless there'd been a forced separation to
occur between man and his
Creator? The undeniable truth is
that man is a spiritual being and
when God is forced out
someone else walks in to occupy that spiritual space.


(Five in his series on
MKultra which are worth one's time. I already mentioned
Manufacturing the Dead head
with Joe Atwill.)

Finally, In Darkness and Secrecy:
The
Anthropology of Assault
Sorcery and Witchcraft in

Amazonia, Prof. Neil
Whitehead and Dr. Robin Wright provide this
warning: Shamanism is a
burgeoning
obsession for the middle
classes around the globe.
It's presentation in popular books, TV specials and on
the
internet is dominated by
the
presumed psychic and
physical benefits that "shamanic techniques" can
bring. This heightened
interest has required a
persistent purification of
the
ritual practices of those who inspire the feverish
quest
for personal meaning and
fulfillment.
Ironically,[…] given the
self- improvement motivations
that have brought so many
into popular
understanding of
shamanism, two defining
aspects of shamanism in Amazonia: blood, ie
violence, and tobacco, have
simply been erased from
such
representations. Such
erasure is not only a vein self-
deception, but more
important it is a
recapitulation of colonial
ways of knowing through
both the denial of radical cultural difference and
refusal to think through its
consequences.”


Jan Irvin continues: We’ve seen how
weaponized
anthropology and native
revivalism were sold to the
masses. It appears that the
“religious experience” sold to the population via the
drugs, neo-shamanism and
Eastern mysticism was

something else entirely, a
wolf in sheep’s clothing –
the Fall.

That post starts with the obscenity that the 60's rebellion was CIA controlled. That's some propaganda for you. Look I know the role the CIA played with LSD, but it backfired on them. LSD was the catalyst for an awakening in the human spirit and they ended a war, advanced the rights of women and gays, and brought about a new respect for our planet.

The Corporations and the CIA/FBI/COPS went to war on the counterculture and stopped it mass-appeal and corrupted and perverted it.
It's lunacy that the establishment created the counter-culture.
 

rainerann

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Joined
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Messages
4,550
Didn't I talk about showing Mercy to pedos and it was like an outrage? I guess it's because I didn't talk about sending them to a "spiritual jail". A jail that is completely dependent on forces that can't be measured. A jail that doesn't give victims any sense of justice whatsoever. So what I'm really wondering is. What's the difference if God kicks them in the nuts, or I do? At least if I do it, I can tell you all about it. Like you could stop pretending magic man in the sky is going to make it all better. Because he's not.

It's all a bit hypocritical and a convenient way out for Christians. It's probably a big factor in the whole white privilege thing. Oh we can't prosecute this white boy, his family are good Christians. They will repent and go to Church. Give the rapist a pass! It's a joke and if anyone want's to tell me stories about this "spiritual jail" I am all ears. But I think it's a figment of your imagination. It's a clever rouse of wrapping escapism in spirituality.

And I agree with the notion of escaping this world though. I just think there is a difference between escaping for real, and in your imagination. I believe we need to take responsibility for ourselves and our communities. Like be the masters of our own destiny.

Technically, I was part of that conversation, and I reused what I said from that conversation about the suicide rate and effort to avoid consequences that are characteristic of p***philia in what I said. So I don't know what you are really talking about. No one is talking about a spiritual jail. That is just a clever way to make fun of what I said. Repentance is a change in the way you lived caused by a spiritual experience. There is no spiritual jail. I explained what the Bible teaches on repentance. A p***phile could repent, in theory, but repentance is not a watered down consequence and the experience of it is not like taking morphine. This is what I was said.

There is also a significant barrier created by the sin of p***philia that will prevent this person from repenting. Honestly, I don't know if I would believe it ever happens. There is an arrogance to p***philia that prevents repenting. However, it is possible according to our doctrine. Since this is a spiritual thing, there is no way to gather statistics on it, but I'm guessing it almost never happens because of the severity of the sin and arrogance associated with it.

I also don't know if you know what happened to David either when he committed adultery. He is the only one to be directly told he would receive forgiveness in the Old Testament, and there were still severe consequences. So the Bible isn't just one verse for a situation, but the ability to discern a whole picture from the different stories in the Bible in order to live and create communities that administer justice.

So, again, it is possible for a p***phile to repent, but this is not some Care Bear like experience, and this doesn't mean there won't still be consequences for your actions. As a result, I cannot understand what motivates a p***phile to behave in this way because it only creates an obstacle to repentance, which is difficult enough as it. So I don't think many people undertake this endeavor and repentance is required in order to receive salvation through Christ. You cannot just believe Jesus is the Son of God and think He will ignore your sins. It doesn't work that way.

This is why the Bible encourages us to be blameless. It actually makes it easier to come before God and repent. This is basically the same conversation we had. I am basically saying the same thing twice. The difference is that I am explaining the process of repentance which is a spiritual experience, which I did not include in the other thread because it would have meant discussing religion.

However, I think they do work together because what I believe about repentance influences the way I feel about the subject of p***philia. I don't think this is a sin that people often repent of because of what I believe about the process of repentance. Therefore, consequences should be considered because of the reality that this is not a sin people repent of. So this is basically the same thing I said before.
 

Karlysymon

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Joined
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Messages
7,279
I watched the video.

Okay but please explain how it makes sense that a Christian p***phile would go to heaven and that a devout Muslim woman who is dedicated to God should go to hell?
Having faith in/believing on Christ demands that one lives out that faith. You can't just make the statement and put your feet up on the table. We all claim to subscribe to ideologies but at the end of the day, the actions prove or disprove the claim. The very essence of sin is destruction and that means every destructive behaviour ends here and now(in this age). A pedo isn't going to enter heaven and terrorise everyone with his pedophilic urges. We've all had enough of 'earth', no one wants 'earth 2.0'. A christian p***phile is actually an oxymoron. Everyone who will perish in the end will do so by choice. You can't deny that. That choice is a demand for independence: to exist apart from God and the laws of His gov't. God respects freewill. If that wasn't the case, we wouldn't be experiencing suffering in this world. But Adam and Eve cast the die for independence and here we are...

“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who
seek find. Those who knock it is opened. ” ― C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce


God is a God of Justice and every act will be rightly rewarded.
On the otherhand, unbelief is also a sin.We see this in the offering of Cain and Abel. The latter's was an acknowledgement/acceptance of God's plan of salvation or solution to the problem of sin. Cain's was obviously a denial of that plan and look how things turned out after that. The Sovereign of the universe has taken it upon Himself to provide a solution to the problem of sin. It rests with you to acknowledge it or not. He will not force your hand.
 
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Karlysymon

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Joined
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Messages
7,279
That post starts with the obscenity that the 60's rebellion was CIA controlled. That's some propaganda for you. Look I know the role the CIA played with LSD, but it backfired on them. LSD was the catalyst for an awakening in the human spirit and they ended a war, advanced the rights of women and gays, and brought about a new respect for our planet.

The Corporations and the CIA/FBI/COPS went to war on the counterculture and stopped it mass-appeal and corrupted and perverted it.
It's lunacy that the establishment created the counter-culture.
I believe the US has been in decline since the 60s. If OWS or the Arab Spring weren't organic movements, do you expect me to believe the COUNTER-CULTURE/peace & love crowd (the name itself) was organic?
 

TMT

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Messages
1,201
I believe the US has been in decline since the 60s. If OWS or the Arab Spring weren't organic movements, do you expect me to believe the COUNTER-CULTURE/peace & love crowd (the name itself) was organic?
Well you believe in the bible so you will believe anything, but that was a bit rude and I apologize. All I can say was the 60's rebellion was a beautiful thing while it lasted and a lot of progress was made. They didn't prevail though and ultimately the corporate/military control over the country remained.

Whether you will admit it or not this is a new age, and all the struggles of the current times are just a result of the old-age power structures trying to keep their grasp on it.

The real enemies are the Corporation and the Church and the Military, three things the counter culture largely challenged.
 

Karlysymon

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Joined
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Messages
7,279
Well you believe in the bible so you will believe anything, but that was a bit rude and I apologize. All I can say was the 60's rebellion was a beautiful thing while it lasted and a lot of progress was made. They didn't prevail though and ultimately the corporate/military control over the country remained.

Whether you will admit it or not this is a new age, and all the struggles of the current times are just a result of the old-age power structures trying to keep their grasp on it.

The real enemies are the Corporation and the Church and the Military, three things the counter culture largely challenged.
Apology accepted.

I admit that probably not everyone in the 60s anti-war mov't was on CIA payroll but the leaders/visible figures certainly were.
Yes, this is a new age....an age of death. Permeating every aspect of life. What you see as a phoenix rising from the ashes, i see a rotting corpse on a funeral pyre.
 

Etagloc

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Mar 26, 2017
Messages
5,291
First off, I just want to mention that I think a person who is caught engaging in p***philia should be castrated.

I don't think people get the point.

My example was just an example.

I wanted to use the worst possible example so I used that one.

But it could be a murderer, a serial killer, Hitler, whoever.

Everyone just focused on the example without addressing the actual point.

The example is not the point.

And notice- everyone was like "p***philia is bad"- yes, of course it is. And they should be castrated if they're caught engaging in it. And if they're a female, maybe female genital mutilation.

But that's not the point. Everyone seems to have missed the point.

Notice no one explained why the devout Muslim woman in my example deserves hell. Everyone basically just took the easy approach of "down with pedophiles!"- yes of course I agree- but that was just an example. I could have used serial killers, Hitler, etc- I used that group because pretty much every sane person detests people who engage in that stuff.

Did people here really not see the larger point or did they just want to take the easy approach and avoid talking about the larger issue? My example was a hypothetical example- it was there for a larger point, it wasn't there for its own sake as an example. I was making a larger point about Christian theology, not talking about a specific crime. Anyways, since people want to focus on the example and avoid the actual point, I'm just going to change the example so maybe people can get to the point.

We'll call this character "Johnny".

Johnny just arrived in Reno, Arizona yesterday.

He shoots a man in Reno- just to watch him die. Then he goes out and becomes a serial killer. He goes around killing men, women and children randomly and ends up killing 100 people.

Now notice how even this does not instinctively repulse people as the other example I used- a famous singer actually sung about killing a man in Reno to watch him die. Seriously, I wish I could use the other example aa its a much stronger example for illustrating my point but I have to switch it because everyone is just going to obsess over the example and miss the point as far as what I'm actually getting at.

So anyways- to make Johnny a little more instinctively repulsive- he blows up an elementary school for blind orphans.

He feels really bad, becomes Christian, repents, God forgives him and he goes to heaven.

Now Jenny lives in Yemen (yes, I know Jenny is not a Yemenese name- please don't send me walls of text about- that's not the point). Pretty much everyone she knows is Muslim. She's heard of Christianity but she obeys her family and is pious and devout and she practices Islam. One day, tragedy strikes. Her grandpa who is an old man who has reached 127 years old (it's my example and I can tell it how I want- please don't send walls of text over it- it's not the point) is in the hospital- Jenny arrives. With his last breath, Jenny's grandpa asks her..... to be a good Muslim.

Jenny does her best, strives to follow God and finally goes to hell simply because she is Muslim.

None of that makes any sense.

And honestly, I'm tired of debating. Seriously- I shouldn't have to dumb it down this much. You're all perfectly capable of understanding my point and I don't think any of you really addressed it.
 
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Etagloc

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Messages
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I believe the US has been in decline since the 60s. If OWS or the Arab Spring weren't organic movements, do you expect me to believe the COUNTER-CULTURE/peace & love crowd (the name itself) was organic?
It wasn't organic. But it was engineered because organic resistance was apprearing. Malcolm X, for example, was totally organic. The Black Panthers in the beginning were totally organic.

There was an engineered official counterculture but it was brought in to shut down organic resistance.
 

Etagloc

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Messages
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Having faith in/believing on Christ demands that one lives out that faith. You can't just make the statement and put your feet up on the table. We all claim to subscribe to ideologies but at the end of the day, the actions prove or disprove the claim. The very essence of sin is destruction and that means every destructive behaviour ends here and now(in this age). You aren't going to enter heaven and terrorise everyone with your pedophilic urges. We've all had enough of 'earth', no one wants 'earth 2.0'. A christian p***phile is actually an oxymoron. Everyone who will perish in the end will do so by choice. You can't deny that. That choice is a demand for independence: to exist apart from God and the laws of His gov't. God respects freewill. If that wasn't the case, we wouldn't be experiencing suffering in this world. But Adam and Eve cast the die for independence and here we are...

“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who
seek find. Those who knock it is opened. ” ― C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce


God is a God of Justice and every act will be rightly rewarded.
On the otherhand, unbelief is also a sin.We see this in the offering of Cain and Abel. The latter's was an acknowledgement/acceptance of God's plan of salvation or solution to the problem of sin. Cain's was obviously a denial of that plan and look how things turned out after that. The Sovereign of the universe has taken it upon Himself to provide a solution to the problem of sin. It rests with you to acknowledge it or not. He will not force your hand.
Okay, that is really offensive to me. I am as against that sort of stuff as anyone else. Damn..... I cannot just have a philosophical discussion with people. I'm not even im favor of non-marital sex, much less any sort of perversion. Seriously..... how can I have an intellectual discussion with people if I can't even just use hypothetical examples to illustrate points?
 
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