Are you for Traditional Values? What do you think about Muslims and Christians joining together to uphold Conservative Values in the West?

[Haich]

Hello sister Haich! ٱلسَّلَامُ عَلَيْكُمْ‎!!!
Agreed!

w/salaam sis! Long time, sending blessings and duas your way hope you are well.

 

[Haich]

unified stance kulaha... I question that...

doesn't the official church in UK promote lgbt?

ok I guess the nasaara will oppose lgbt stuff in schools but.... I just don't imagine the gaalos going much beyond that... they will accept all sorts of fahisha but then when it appears in the schools they will complain

kulaha? A Somali? MashaAllah. Iska waran?

I do agree, they do accept a lot of fahisha but there is a small fraction of the Christian community which oppose it just as much as Muslims.

I wasn’t referencing the official church as it doesn’t represent the Christians I’ve come across in the home Ed community. They aren’t liberal; they are conservative in every sense of the word. Of course they believe in the divinity of Isa (as) but we aren’t discussing matters of faith here.

There are aspects of modesty such as wearing unprovocative clothing (again not to the Islamic standard but something better than the treachery that is worn now), the re-establishment, encouragement and implementation of the family unit where the man is seen as the protector and main breadwinner (again, there are many benefits to this as we know islamically however men have been reduced and portrayed as clowns and have been emasculated over the decades).

Finally, the role of the father and empowering men to raise their kids. Just because a marriage breaks down doesn’t mean it has to render his role void. I appreciate there are nuisances to consider but if we try to encourage marriage and instill these values into our youth, they wouldn’t be mounting each other like deranged animals.

i don’t know a Christian that wouldn’t promote these values! Surely it can be a collective effort to work on? it’s better than the depraved indecency and transgression I see on a daily basis

 

[90sWereBetter]

kulaha? A Somali? MashaAllah. Iska waran?

Alhamdulilaah. la, ana ajnabi.

I wasn’t referencing the official church as it doesn’t represent the Christians I’ve come across in the home Ed community. They aren’t liberal; they are conservative in every sense of the word. Of course they believe in the divinity of Isa (as) but we aren’t discussing matters of faith here.

There are aspects of modesty such as wearing unprovocative clothing (again not to the Islamic standard but something better than the treachery that is worn now), the re-establishment, encouragement and implementation of the family unit where the man is seen as the protector and main breadwinner (again, there are many benefits to this as we know islamically however men have been reduced and portrayed as clowns and have been emasculated over the decades).

Finally, the role of the father and empowering men to raise their kids. Just because a marriage breaks down doesn’t mean it has to render his role void. I appreciate there are nuisances to consider but if we try to encourage marriage and instill these values into our youth, they wouldn’t be mounting each other like deranged animals.

i don’t know a Christian that wouldn’t promote these values! Surely it can be a collective effort to work on? it’s better than the depraved indecency and transgression I see on a daily basis

I agree with you that many Christians are leaning in a better direction than much of society. I am just hesitant when it comes to them, though. I forget the exact verse but I believe the Quran warns against allying with non Muslims. but then I think there are certain situations where it's considered permissible. so I would want to know in detail when exactly it is or isn't permissible and whether this would fall under permissible.

 

[Haich]

Alhamdulilaah. la, ana ajnabi.



I agree with you that many Christians are leaning in a better direction than much of society. I am just hesitant when it comes to them, though. I forget the exact verse but I believe the Quran warns against allying with non Muslims. but then I think there are certain situations where it's considered permissible. so I would want to know in detail when exactly it is or isn't permissible and whether this would fall under permissible.

In matters of faith there is no space for unity. I’m not really one of these people that can ignore the clear differences in how we worship and understand The Creator. The differences are just too significant of a detail for me to overlook.

Other than when Isa (as) returns I don’t know of any Hadith or Ayat that encourages us to unite for common purposes. I’d humbly argue (this is just my opinion) that if we live in a society where the law of the land is such that we have to respect that which doesn’t compromise our deen, then we follow the law of the land to the best of our ability. If we feel the law of the land is infringing on our rights then I see no objection to allying with those that also want to maintain a conservative and modest way of living. This is without compromising our beliefs…

I know in the US the likes of Jonathan Brown and Linda Sauraur? (Sorry I can’t spell her surname) advocate for the equal rights of LGBTQ marriage and rights in an attempt to gain our own rights? That I’m completely opposed to and I know that wouldn’t run in the UK lol practising Muslims here don’t compromise their deen like that generally speaking. We’ve started our own home Ed communities and the government are trying to pass a School Bill which restricts our freedoms but Alhamdulilah we’re still running our home Ed communities with ease.

 

[Haich]

For general things like modesty, the re-establishment of the family unit (male and female), the celebration of fatherhood and motherhood, teaching our kids basic principles of right and wrong, community and being outdoors in nature…all of this I’m in favour of and I’m sure you don’t have to be Muslim to unify on these general practices of goodness and wholesomeness.

 

[TokiEl]

Isaiah 45:5, King James Version

I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isaiah
45:5 I [am] the "I AM", and [there is] none else, [there is] no God besides Me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known Me:
45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the West, that [there is] none beside Me. I [am] the "I AM", and [there is] none else.

John 14 5“Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?”

6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”

8Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.”

9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works. 11Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me—or at least believe on account of the works themselves.

12Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you ask Me for anything in My name, I will do it.





You do not believe Jesus Christ ? Are you calling Him a liar ?

 

[TokiEl]

Yes muslims are implying that the Messiah - the Saviour of souls - is a mere liar and con man.

Shame on you.

Shame shame shame.

Blasphemy.

 

[TokiEl]

You refuse to reject your religious traditions... just like pharisees.

That's all it is.

Refusing to let go of falsehoods.

 

[DesertRose]

Yes muslims are implying that the Messiah - the Saviour of souls - is a mere liar and con man.

You are clearly wrong.
The scholars who deified him after he was raised were wrong.
By the way, we are not allowed to abuse the Gods of other religions and definitely never a Prophet of God so we would never use words like 'liar 'and 'con man' to refer to him.
Some secular historians do not believe he existed.
The Jews do not see Jesus as a Messiah, Prophet, or 'God' the latter being a Christian belief and is blasphemy for Muslims..
Muslims are the path of moderation in this equation.
It is worth noting the Muslim belief in Prophet Jesus peace be upon him.
We are the only other major world religion that believes in Jesus Peace Be upon Him.
We believe in Jesus as the Messiah and as a Prophet of God.
We believe he cured the blind with God's permission, raised the dead with God's permission, cured the leper with God's permission and so on.
We believe he was one of the mightiest Prophets of God and one of the Messengers of Strong Faith.
We also believe that Mary May the Creator have mercy on her was one of the best women on earth.
She is an example for Muslim women, her faith in God since before Jesus peace be upon him was born and her modesty is worth emulating.
Their lives according to the Quran are still relevant to us.
We have a living relationship with our faith.
We cover and emulate her modesty and faith in Allah, The Most High.
In addition, to the modesty, and spirituality of all the Prophets and righteous believers in The One God.

 

[TokiEl]

You are clearly wrong.
The scholars who deified him after he was raised were wrong.

?

Jesus deified himself.


In the New Testament He is on record stating things like...

I am the way and the truth and the life.

The Father judges no one but has assigned all judgement to the Son.

All authority in Heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Father now give me back the glory i had with you before the world was created.

Etc etc

The Jews do not see Jesus as a Messiah, Prophet, or 'God' the latter being a Christian belief and is blasphemy for Muslims..

Jesus condemned the jews... and not long after the jews were slaughtered and the rest scattered when the romans invaded. So for 2000 years the jews have been wasting away.. until the time Jesus returned them to His land. Now more and more jews understand that Jesus is the Messiah - the divine Saviour of souls.

Muslims base their beliefs on the quran which is the devil's inspiration.

 

[DesertRose]

The OP is about joining for the specific purpose of upholding traditional values in the West
Posters who are not here to focus on that point are not welcome on this thread.

 

[TokiEl]

As the shepherde said... muslims base their beliefs on the quran which was inspired by a fallen angel/god commonly known as satan.

The OP is about joining for the specific purpose of upholding traditional values in the West
Posters who are not here to focus on that point are not welcome on this thread.

So God is not welcome in this thread...


God is Truth and i am sent by God to tell truths... even if you refuse to listen.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Thank you for your response.
I hope that as PBD has understood we can set aside our differences to cooperate on some worldly matters.
In regards to your statement, that would be denying our beliefs.
This is not acceptable to us, we would be held accountable by the Creator for hiding or changing the message.
Asking us to do this is no different than the left-wingers asking us to only be 'free' to be like them not to be who we are.

We believe it is the greatest sin to worship other partners with The One God.
Prophet Jesus peace be upon Him is respected as one of His Prophets and Messengers of strong will and the Messiah.
Prophethood is the pinnacle point for human beings.
This is our message, the same message that was sent with all the Prophets from the time of Prophet Adam peace be upon all of them.

“They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allaah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allaah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”
[al-Tawbah 9:31]


“O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allaah and His Word, (‘Be!’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allaah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allaah is (the only) One Ilaah (God), glory is to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allaah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs”
[al-Nisa’ 4:171]
​

Now yall can witness the dishonesty for yourself... these people are not interested in "working together"... they are interested in their false-Islam gaining worldwide traction and dominance. It aint going to happen, they are doomed to fail. Actual Islam will outlast these fake Muslims and their false "Islamic" doctrines.

 

[Maldarker]

Now yall can witness the dishonesty for yourself... these people are not interested in "working together"... they are interested in their false-Islam gaining worldwide traction and dominance. It aint going to happen, they are doomed to fail. Actual Islam will outlast these fake Muslims and their false "Islamic" doctrines.

You can't have your beliefs only theirs and if you comment against it or are not in total lock step then you get shouted down. Total victim mentality - squeaking wheels get the grease etc etc. But you lambast something they believe and its a jihad against you. Hypocrite everyone of them.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

You can't have your beliefs only theirs and if you comment against it or are not in total lock step then you get shouted down. Total victim mentality - squeaking wheels get the grease etc etc. But you lambast something they believe and its a jihad against you. Hypocrite everyone of them.

This crowd has also been touting the false-hadeeth excuses for the rampant pedo activity within Muslim communities and nations. They LITERALLY defend that to the hilt and as you mentioned... attack anyone who exposes their pedo scam. But the more they do so, the more they expose that they are just actually into pedo-ish and are using that false-hadeeth scam for EXACTLY what it was intended for... to promote/justify pedo activity.

 

[delusion.everywhere]

Now yall can witness the dishonesty for yourself... these people are not interested in "working together"... they are interested in their false-Islam gaining worldwide traction and dominance. It aint going to happen, they are doomed to fail. Actual Islam will outlast these fake Muslims and their false "Islamic" doctrines.

Why it's dishonesty? Do you as a Muslim took your shahada when you reverted ? We believe in oneness of God first and foremost.

As the shepherde said... muslims base their beliefs on the quran which was inspired by a fallen angel/god commonly known as satan.



So God is not welcome in this thread...


God is Truth and i am sent by God to tell truths... even if you refuse to listen.

@TempestOfTempo Just above your reply, a person thinks Allah is a fallen angel. You did not corrected them. You did say, you never criticize Islam but you never defend your faith even. Leave Muslims, atleast defend your faith.

So how can I believe, without any prior interaction with you in past , that you are a Muslim. You get along with non-muslims who are clearly unstable many of them , but you only target Muslims. That's what I have observed.

 

[Maldarker]

This crowd has also been touting the false-hadeeth excuses for the rampant pedo activity within Muslim communities and nations. They LITERALLY defend that to the hilt and as you mentioned... attack anyone who exposes their pedo scam. But the more they do so, the more they expose that they are just actually into pedo-ish and are using that false-hadeeth scam for EXACTLY what it was intended for... to promote/justify pedo activity.

Question? So y is eygpt a muslim nation blocking palestinians from entering it? seems odd not? Same religious group are they not? Or is it a different faction?

 

[delusion.everywhere]

Question? So y is eygpt a muslim nation blocking palestinians from entering it? seems odd not? Same religious group are they not? Or is it a different faction?

Why not ask this question in Palestine thread? May I ask?

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Question? So y is eygpt a muslim nation blocking palestinians from entering it? seems odd not? Same religious group are they not? Or is it a different faction?

Same reason KSA wont let the Yemen forces through to fight alongside the Palestinians... because they are not beholden to actual Islam. These leaders are beholden to the satanic agenda they claim to stand in opposition to. Much like many so called "Christian" Western leaders.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Why it's dishonesty? Do you as a Muslim took your shahada when you reverted ? We believe in oneness of God first and foremost.


@TempestOfTempo Just above your reply, a person thinks Allah is a fallen angel. You did not corrected them. You did say, you never criticize Islam but you never defend your faith even. Leave Muslims, atleast defend your faith.

So how can I believe, without any prior interaction with you in past , that you are a Muslim. You get along with non-muslims who are clearly unstable many of them , but you only target Muslims. That's what I have observed.

Its dishonest because the thread is supposed to foster a spirit of cohesion if not actual outright unity. But we can see by the Muslims dialog here thats not what they are actually after. They want to use non-Muslims to slide into a credibility they have never earned and in fact, as we see with those same Muslims peddling their own pedo agendas, these people have nothing to offer outside of more fitna and blasphemy. I took shahada... but that means Im empowered to stand for the truth, no matter how lonely it is... as opposed to these people who lie like its nothing and support the worst of the worst... which they claim to have Islamic justification for. They were not interested in working together, they were hoping to use these non-Muslims credibility to help establish a foothold the never earned.

I dont need to defend Islam because it stands on its own. But I wont defend false and/or wicked so-called "Muslims" at all. Islam compels me to expose and confront them.

I dont care if you get along with me or not, Im not here for a popularity contest and I dont care if non-Muslims here like me or not either. What Im here for is substantive dialog and to learn what I can from others, while sharing what I can in return. Im not here for a social scene. As for targeting? I believe strongly in self-accountability and cleaning up ones own messes before confronting others about theirs. Muslims need to get their own house in order instead of complaining about their neighbors yard.